truth about Bushs war - from alternet forum

[peaccenicked]

If Saddam Hussein cooperates with the inspectors, he is "playing games", and that justifies an attack.

If Hussein does not cooperate with the inspectors, that justifies an attack.

If the inspectors find WMD, that is justification for an attack.

If the inspectors don't find WMD, Hussein must be hiding something, which is justification for an attack.

Basically what it seems to come down to is that Bush wants to attack, and nothing else matters: not Hussein's behavior, not world opinion, not international law, not humanitarian concerns, not the staggering costs of war -- nothing.

[Tkinter1]

I would hope he would care about humanitarian laws, but you're right about everything else.

[canikickit]

There will be a humanitarian crisis in Iraq.

Of course, if Saddam destroys his weapons, then they can find a pathetic little recon-plane, and use that as justification to attack. That way he can't defend himself. Oh...that has already happened.

[peaccenicked]

Bush is a cold hearted monster.
Think about it.
http://www.counterpunch.org/fisk01272003.html

[Liberty Lover]

Quote: from peaccenicked on 2:13 am on Mar. 14, 2003
not humanitarian concerns


And of course there is nothing to be concerned about with humanitarian situation in Iraq right now.

[peaccenicked]

Of course there is but Bush is lying about his concerns.

[Liberty Lover]

Quote: from peaccenicked on 6:46 am on Mar. 14, 2003
Of course there is but Bush is lying about his concerns.

What then do you think is motivating this war?

[peaccenicked]

How about empire building?
Politicians do that you know.

[Liberty Lover]

What makes you think that?

[peaccenicked]

The history of America.
http://www.neravt.com/left/invade.htm

[Liberty Lover]

A list of past US military interventions that I could justify (for the most part) if I could be bothered. But what makes you think this adminisrtation is 'empire building'?

[peaccenicked]

I will use sources here. Since you cant see empire building as continuation of past US imperialist policies.
You are of course willing blind to US imperialism.
"We have 50 percent of the world's wealth, but only 6.3 percent of its population. . . In this situation we cannot fail to be the object of envy and resentment. Our real task in the coming period is to devise a pattern of relationships which will allow us to maintain this position of disparity. We should cease to talk about the raising of the living standards, human rights, and democratization. The day is not far off when we are going to have to deal in straight power concepts. The less we are then hampered by idealistic slogans, the better."
-- George Kennan, Director of Policy Planning of the U.S. Dept. of State, 1948

For modern evidence for this regime.

*** U.S. Senator Richard Lugar, Republican Party chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, has threatened France and Russia, saying that if they don't support Bush's invasion plans they'll get no share in Iraq's oil resources (Oil and Gas International's 'World Industry News', January 27, 2003).

*** The Bush Administration's most outspoken war-for-oil proponent is Richard Perle, chair of the Defense Policy Board, a Pentagon advisory group. Perle's Rand Corporation report briefing submitted in July, 2002 recommended invading Iraq as a first step in gaining U.S. control over oil throughout the Middle East, especially Saudi Arabia (Boston Globe, September 10, 2002).

*** "Oil giants including ExxonMobil, ChevronTexaco, and ConocoPhillips are the most likely to lead any development efforts in a post-war Iraq," according to energy analyst Peter Zeihan of Stratfor, an intelligence-consulting group based in Austin, Texas ("Reaping the spoils of war: Ousting Saddam could put U.S. oil giants in 'driver's seat'," CBS.MarketWatch.com, January 31, 2003).

Executives from U.S. oil firms have been conferring with officials from the White House, State Department and Defense Department on lucrative contracts to rebuild and run Iraq's oil industry after the war, according to The Wall Street Journal. "[T]he early spoils would probably go to companies needed to keep Iraq's already run-down oil operations running, especially if facilities were further damaged in a war. Oil-services firms such as Halliburton Co., where Vice President Dick Cheney formerly served as chief executive, and Schlumberger Ltd. are seen as favorites for what could be as much as $1.5 billion in contracts. The major oil and natural-gas producers won't be far behind." ("U.S. Oil Wants to Work in Iraq", January 16, 2003)

Such reports have prompted consumer advocate and 2000 Green presidential candidate Ralph Nader to ask about the extent to which oil companies were involved in the decision to invade Iraq. "The American people also have a right to know what was discussed in the numerous secret meetings Vice President Cheney's national energy task force held with oil and gas executives." ("What Role the Oil Industry Playing in Bush's Drive to War?", by Ralph Nader, CommonDreams.org, February 14, 2003)

*** The U.S. consumes 26% of the world's oil, but possesses only 2% of the world's oil reserves. The U.S. imports 9.8 million barrels of oil a day, more than half of its 19.5 million barrels a day consumption. Cheney's national energy plan, drafted during the secret meetings with oil executives, wants the U.S. to import 17 million barrels a day, or 2/3 of daily oil consumption, by 2020. The plan makes energy security, including control over the availability of oil to other nations, a priority of U.S. foreign policy.

Outside the U.S., the oil motivation is more openly discussed. British Foreign Secretary Jack Straw acknowledged in a recent speech to British ambassadors that oil is the main motivation for Blair's support for Bush's war, much more so than any threat of weapons of mass destruction.

"The Blair government is concerned about global energy supplies, especially oil imports, during the coming years," said Beth Moore Haines. "And the Bush Administration and its oil company backers want to control the Iraqi oil spigot, whether or not any of that oil actually comes to America. That's what makes Bush's planned invasion such a blatant and dangerous exercise in empire building."











(Edited by peaccenicked at 3:15 pm on Mar. 14, 2003)

[Liberty Lover]

This is pathetic even for you peaccenicked. You either made these points up or copied them from a website that made them up.

This war is not being motivation by oil!

1) Acquiring oil in Iraq will push petroleum prices down...no oil company wants that.

2) All that would be required to get Iraqi oil is a lift of the sanctions...that would also be $150 billion cheaper.

3) Kuwait’s oil is still in the hands of Kuwaiti's...despite the fact that America had a golden opportunity to take it away

[peaccenicked]

American companys are already 'developing' Kuwaiti oil.
Price reductions are short term and so are profit short fall.
Basically you are lying.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/oil/story/0,1131...,845166,00.html (http://www.guardian.co.uk/oil/story/0,11319,845166,00.html)

[Liberty Lover]

Kuwait is only mentioned once in this entire article...and in a quote by the Iraqi vice-president. Very reliable.

Funny how you conveniently ignored my two primary points!

[peaccenicked]

''American companys are already 'developing' Kuwaiti oil.
Price reductions are short term and so are profit short fall.
Basically you are lying. ''
This covers all of your lies. Maybe you did not pass your English comprehension class.

[DEFMARX]

This is most definately about oil. We are talking about a Texas good ol boy who's only reason for being in the postion he's in now is because of daddy and big oil. And to say that the price of oil will drop, well, not really. Perhaps the prices may drop a bit, but as you said, yourself LL, no oil company wants that. So what makes you think they would.
Besides, the prices of oil are determined by OPEC, not the sacred invisible hand that your beloved cappi system relies on. Do you honestly think that Bush is literally foaming at the mouth to bomb people because of his humanitarian interest in the people of Iraq? Come on...know not even you can say that you buy into that horseshit. Don't be such a fucking chump. Think for once. The answer to nine out of ten questions is MONEY. Bush has no interest in peace. He has interest in himself and his own political career. There is money to be made from war. It gives us a chance to pour more money into our already disturbing military budget. It will give us a chance to use our shiney new toys and show the rest of the world what happens when you fuck with American dough.

[synthesis]

Funny how you conveniently ignored my two primary points! Funny how you do this every single thread I've seen you participate in. Idiot.