Beware of Section 8 Housing

[Capitalist Lawyer]

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/09/us/09housing.html?_r=1&adxnnl=1&oref=slogin&adxnnlx=1219592390-+MK6C8J4ib90FWmjD4WrbA



Law enforcement experts and housing researchers argue that rising crime rates follow Section 8 recipients to their new homes, while other experts discount any direct link. But there is little doubt that cultural shock waves have followed the migration. Social and racial tensions between newcomers and their neighbors have increased, forcing suburban communities like Antioch to re-evaluate their civic identities along with their methods of dealing with the new residents.


The main benefit of living in a more expensive neighborhood is that you don’t have poor people for neighbors. But Section 8 turns that upside down, and allows poor people to live in neighborhoods that they couldn’t afford on their own.


As the article shows, poor people do not suddenly absorb the middle class values of their neighbors. Instead, they retain their lower-class behaviors and thus bring all sorts of problems with them, such as violent crime.





In the case of housing, it's said that poor people have to live in violent, rundown, dirty places. If they were given the resources to live in nicer areas, their lot in life would improve.



In the case of schools, it's said that poor people have to study in bad schools with low test scores and bad teachers. If they were given the resources to go to good school with high test schores and good teachers, their lot in life would improve.



Of course, what is evaded is the fact that crime ridden communities reflect the people who live in them and failing schools reflect the people who study in them. When these people move into nicer communities and schools, they bring their shortcomings along with them.

[Killfacer]

your a vile cretin.

Crap schools dont reflect their users, they reflect the fact that society has destroyed working class asperations.

[Killfacer]

you have essentially just said that the working class are thick criminals who ruin areas by being there.

[Schrödinger's Cat]

Wait, isn't this the guy that said he lied about being a capitalist? Or was it being a lawyer? What's with capitalists in OI? If they're not lying, they're plagiarizing. :laugh:

[Bud Struggle]

I own a couple of Section 8 apartment building in New England--and I honestly have no problem with crime and any other problems. It actually is a good money maker-the government ALWAYS pays their bills--unlike individual renters, also because of the high desirability of the units anyone that proves to be a "problem" to other tennants can easily be evicted. For the most part people keep their units clean and don't really cause much trouble at all.

Over all I've had only a couple of problems with drug dealers--and they were evicted as soon as I found out they were there.

The people that live in Section 8's are a normal crossesction of America. The vast majority are wonderful people with a few band ones every now and then. The problem in the article isn't with the people that live in the Apartments--it's with the owners and management. Unfortunately there is no incentive for ownership to keep the units well maintained and to keep the bad element away from living there--in regular apartments, bad people usually don't pay their bills and so are kicked out--in Section 8s the government pays for the crack addict as well as the nice people.

I keep my places nice because they are MY property.

[danyboy27]

there is a couple of governement owned habitation building in my neighborhood and i have to say those guy are the one that make the less troubles. Much of trouble maker own shitty appartement owned by a stupid landlord that wont give shit to keep the place clean.
I for myself have a shitty landlord, and it would be just super if he could maintain the stuff he rent, Hell he didnt clean the hallway since 3 year, and when i ask for him to fix something it take an eternity.
I wish i could have a landlord like tomk that actually know what he doing, my landlord is a 80 year old dentist that own shitlod of stuff, but it take proess to make him pay for the maintenance.

Seriously Tomk, ever considered to invest in canada? perhaps with a good offer you could purchase my habitation building.

[Killfacer]

maybe tom should pay for the housing of everyone in OI

[IcarusAngel]

Wait, isn't this the guy that said he lied about being a capitalist? Or was it being a lawyer? What's with capitalists in OI? If they're not lying, they're plagiarizing. :laugh:

It's not just our own capitalists, remember I caught several protest-warriors outright lying.

This included a protest-warrior named "Skytrooper" who claimed he mastered mathematics faster than Richard Feyman and mastered PDEs by the time he was in ninth grade I believe it was. On probing, I found out he didn't even know what a PDE was, and he couldn't understand it from the wiki entry.

He also lied and claimed he would send me his transcripts with his "calculus grades" (PDE is past calculus), so when I asked him to do so he claimed I would have to investigate it myself, even though it is illegal to get someone else's transcripts without permission.

I also caught pseudo-"ancap" Rich333 lying several times: who claimed he was a computer scientist and a brilliant mathematican, even though he stated several times that basically irrational numbers don't exist and that every number can be written as a fraction (this violates a millenia of mathematical theory and would invalidiate several mathematical rules that are based on the existence the real number set).

Several people know him from "cybernations" and he claims that his lies are justifiable because they're supporting a good theory like libertarianism. :laugh:

He also made up quotes and attributed them to anarchist authors, either that or they were out of context, again because lying is justifiable to support capitalism. :laugh:

I caught numerous other members in petty lies as well, some so disgraced they left the forum, until I was finally "warned" about calling their members out on their lies and was threatened with banning for questioniong them.

I believe they still even read my posts here. [Note to PW: You want to debate me where I can't get banned for calling you out on your lies, *****es? Yeah, that's what I thought.]

Capitalists on the internet lie because they're angry little trolls with nothing better to do than to make themselves, and capitalism, better than they actually are.

So they're all pseudo-capitalists in a way because they're on the internet lying and gloating rather than trying to make money.

All that said, I actually do kind of agree people from poor neighborhoods likely need more help them just moving them around and putting them in different schools.

That's why "school vouchers" is such a failure. Remember, these kids have been failing for years, so they need additional help, not just what the school provides. So, if you had vouchers, you're just creating a privatized system that's worse than the current one. Plus, parents can't necessary afford the private schools even with the vouchers, and private schools don't have to follow rules such as helping disabled students.

Vouchers also defund public schools, they're a terrible idea.

[Schrödinger's Cat]

Ew, you post at Protest-Warrior? Most of the users there can't wrap their heads around the idea that property doesn't crawl out of your rectum. Good luck.

I can't make out the point Capitalist "Lawyer" is trying to make. Is this another "blame the poor for being stupid" rant? :)

[IcarusAngel]

No, I don't post there anymore. I exposed several of their members as liars and then left, after being threatened with "banning."

Most of their members are mentally retarded, literally. Many of them could not even complete jr. high/high school and have flunked out. About 80% of them can't even read and write at an adult level, or comprehend things or problem solve.

[IcarusAngel]

I can't make out the point Capitalist "Lawyer" is trying to make. Is this another "blame the poor for being stupid" rant? :)

Yes. However, he is also trying to say (i think) that you can't help the poor just by shifting them around.

I agree here. Let them build up their own neighborhoods and improve their schools.

Claiming you can change someone just by moving them is akin to saying you could make an economist a physicist by moving him into the physics department; sure, he would have access to the tools of a physicist, but so what? He's missing out on the training.

Of course, the poor have a lot less facilities, live in more desolate areas, and give them a more negative feeling on life.

But you could more easily empower them by working with them. That to me is very communist and libertarian-socialist: building up communities.

Many slums have been built up from nothing in the past, and society is about building from basic things in nature to a more advanced industrial society.

[Bud Struggle]

there is a couple of governement owned habitation building in my neighborhood and i have to say those guy are the one that make the less troubles. Much of trouble maker own shitty appartement owned by a stupid landlord that wont give shit to keep the place clean.
I for myself have a shitty landlord, and it would be just super if he could maintain the stuff he rent, Hell he didnt clean the hallway since 3 year, and when i ask for him to fix something it take an eternity.
I wish i could have a landlord like tomk that actually know what he doing, my landlord is a 80 year old dentist that own shitlod of stuff, but it take proess to make him pay for the maintenance.

Seriously Tomk, ever considered to invest in canada? perhaps with a good offer you could purchase my habitation building.

Section 8 housing is privately owned, so the landlord rents to individual people that have Section 8 vouchers pre appoved by the government. Section 8 housing is also pre appoved by the government and has to be declaired as such for the people to use their vouchers.

My business is buying, improving, and renting properties--which I then can sell at a profit so it benefuts me to keep my properties in good condition. It sounds like your land lord uses your apts as a cash cow--milking as much money as he can out of them and doing as little as possible.

If I were a renter, I would find out who actually owns the building and what his business really is. As much as a apt owner checks you out--you should check him out before you rent. If he owns other stuff in town take a drive by. All in all, if you are outside of Section 8 here in the US--garden apts are usually the best bet for renting. Owners usually keep them in pretty good condition because they are alway s waiting for the opportunity to turn them in to Condos with as little extra work as possible --so they are in terested in keeping the grounds and the building in good condition.

I don't do any other non commercial/industrial rentals outside of Section 8. Regular apartments are too much bother.

[Capitalist Lawyer]

A communist poster said:



I keep my places nice because they are MY property

How very capitalist of you. When are you going to give up YOUR property for the good of society? Isn't that what a true communist would do?

And this article proves why class society will always be with us.

[Dean]

A communist poster said:



How very capitalist of you. When are you going to give up YOUR property for the good of society? Isn't that what a true communist would do?

And this article proves why class society will always be with us.

You must have missed something about TomK.

[Bud Struggle]

You must have missed something about TomK.

I'm really a Communist posing as a Capitalist. :)

[danyboy27]

Section 8 housing is privately owned, so the landlord rents to individual people that have Section 8 vouchers pre appoved by the government. Section 8 housing is also pre appoved by the government and has to be declaired as such for the people to use their vouchers.

My business is buying, improving, and renting properties--which I then can sell at a profit so it benefuts me to keep my properties in good condition. It sounds like your land lord uses your apts as a cash cow--milking as much money as he can out of them and doing as little as possible.

If I were a renter, I would find out who actually owns the building and what his business really is. As much as a apt owner checks you out--you should check him out before you rent. If he owns other stuff in town take a drive by. All in all, if you are outside of Section 8 here in the US--garden apts are usually the best bet for renting. Owners usually keep them in pretty good condition because they are alway s waiting for the opportunity to turn them in to Condos with as little extra work as possible --so they are in terested in keeping the grounds and the building in good condition.

I don't do any other non commercial/industrial rentals outside of Section 8. Regular apartments are too much bother.

I dont say that often about social idea coming fro the us but this one is AWSOME!. here in canada, social housing work differently; they put you on the list, and when THEY gonna choose a appartement for you, they gonna take you 15% of your salary to pay the rent, in other word they decide of the rent cost according to your salary.

But i have to say that the us system sound somehow better on that aspect. I guess what it need is more regulation to be sure all the peoples running it are good person like you.

[which doctor]

I dont say that often about social idea coming fro the us but this one is AWSOME!. here in canada, social housing work differently; they put you on the list, and when THEY gonna choose a appartement for you, they gonna take you 15% of your salary to pay the rent, in other word they decide of the rent cost according to your salary.

But i have to say that the us system sound somehow better on that aspect. I guess what it need is more regulation to be sure all the peoples running it are good person like you.
Does that 15% of your income cover your all of your rent? If so, that's awesome. In America it's quite common to pay 50% or more of your income towards your rent, especially in urban areas.

[Bud Struggle]

Does that 15% of your income cover your all of your rent? If so, that's awesome. In America it's quite common to pay 50% or more of your income towards your rent, especially in urban areas.

For Section 8 housing in the US the government usually takes between 25% and 30% of the renter's income for housing--the government then makes up the rest up the the fair market rent of the apartment and pays it to the apartment owner.

It's really a pretty good deal--the rent on the apartment is ALWAYS payed and if the renter is problematic--bothering other renters, loud music, drug dealing, gets arrested, etc. the apt. owner can petition the Public Housing authority to get the guy off of Section 8 and outof the building.

Renters are VERY well behaved when they understand there are consequences to their actions. And if you think this is kind of harsh--it's not. Apt. building could go hill very quickly if not managed correctly--and there are plenty of single women and kids in these places. [Non PC alert!--Paternalism!] As for myself I rather throw out the trouble makers than let these nice people get hurt.