Britain was not better under Thatcher!!!!! - And I can prove

[Moskitto]

Many claim that Britain was far better off under the conservatives like Thatcher.

In reality, in 1989, the average house price was 5.5 times the average income whereas in 1999 it was 3.4 times the average income, in 1999, the average income could buy nearly 10000 more loaves of bread than in 1989, inflation was 3.3% in 1999 compared to 12% in 1989, interest rates were 5.5% in 1999 compared to 13% in 1989, unemployment has decreased to 1.3% in 1999 compared with 1.8% in 1989.

Source: Guardian - Blair's 1000 days

Britain better under Thatcher? No way.

[The Sniper]

umm well duh! Sorry I thought that most ppl did actually think that Britian woznt better off under Thatcher, seems pretty ovious i mean the woman started a war crushed Trade Unions, sold off all the public services and created problems we are still having to deal with now!!

[Zelena Hracka]

Don't take seriously what some conservative, old-fashioned, ill-minded, blinder-wearing, god-believers, manipulated, folks say.


Sure, Britain was great back then. At least Liverpool had a wikkid team at the time.

[Saint-Just]

In addition, unemployment was around 4 million in the early 80's. This had an adverse effect on the economy, Britian lost an indredible amount of productivity, seems the neo-liberals encountered a few small problems.

I wouldn't say the Guardian was particularly left-wing however. On sunday there was a commentary in which Tony Benn was called a asserted as being akin to a 'Stalinist'. I hold great disdain for Tony Benn, however it is an extremely short-sighted view to call him a 'Stalinist', like calling Thatcher a Nazi, although slightly amusing for the appropriate side of the spectrum, totally false.

[Moskitto]

the fact that it's not from a "particularly left wing" source is better for these purposes because thatcher supporters cannot deride it a "left wing propaganda" with such conviction.

my dad says thatcher lost him £60,000, his job and his home in 1991.

[Palmares]

Thatcher was a neo-conservative. Her and Reagan must have been secret fuck buddies.

Fuck neo-cons!

[Saint-Just]

Quote: from Moskitto on 9:40 pm on Mar. 11, 2003
the fact that it's not from a "particularly left wing" source is better for these purposes because thatcher supporters cannot deride it a "left wing propaganda" with such conviction.

my dad says thatcher lost him £60,000, his job and his home in 1991.


Yes, I agree. Your Dad is extremely unforunate. You can argue that Thatcher has caused the deaths of innocent people, for example the privatisation of the trains led to the numerous rail disasters. She, in the most profound way, changed the face of British politics. Caused the emergence of New Labour and the 'third way', her neo-liberal policies are popular in the Labour Party now, i.e. continuation of 'Next Steps' programme and now PFI (private finance initiative).

Most former public services now privatised: Coal, Gas, Electric, Water, Trains, Buses, Housing, 100's of civil service bodies and so on....

'Thatcher was a neo-conservative. Her and Reagan must have been secret fuck buddies.

Fuck neo-cons!'

Never heard that term before, but yes certainly a new age in conservative party, really not conservative at all. Generally though the two groups are 'one nation Tories' and the Neo-Liberals.

[Moskitto]

can argue that Thatcher has caused the deaths of innocent people

one of my dad's, friend's (my friend's, dad), friend committed suicide after the miners strike, yes, they were exchanging stories about how evil thatcher was.

speaking of privatisation and rail crashes, someone at our school about 10 years ago made something for GCSE coursework in engineering which when installed on the tracks would have stopped most of the recent train crashes, he won a major engineering award for it.

[Anonymous]

Some people were better off under Thatcher, she gave rise to the yuppy culture and helped start many small businesses. She did kill off most primary industry in Britain partly because of petty anger with the miners for bringing a previous government to its knees. But she did also start many on the property ladder. Working Class people were given the chance to buy their council flats and felt they owed a lot to Thatcher who created a society in which they had a chance to go to the top. The thousands of people that were really screwed over (the underclass) mattered nothing to them as they lived (and we still do) in the 'me now' society.

[Saint-Just]

Quote: from Funky Monk on 4:41 pm on Mar. 12, 2003
Some people were better off under Thatcher, she gave rise to the yuppy culture and helped start many small businesses. She did kill off most primary industry in Britain partly because of petty anger with the miners for bringing a previous government to its knees. But she did also start many on the property ladder. Working Class people were given the chance to buy their council flats and felt they owed a lot to Thatcher who created a society in which they had a chance to go to the top. The thousands of people that were really screwed over (the underclass) mattered nothing to them as they lived (and we still do) in the 'me now' society.

Although Thatcher did encourage people to buy their own houses, Britian was at a level of affluency where it was necessary and natural to do it. Unfortunately, Thatcher helped create this 'me now' society. The ambitious working class people thought Thatcher would bring them an opportunity to climb the social ladder, however this could be cited as somewhat of an illusion, in additions, millions of workers lost out incredibly.

[smith196]

Quote: from The Sniper on 7:04 pm on Mar. 11, 2003
umm well duh! Sorry I thought that most ppl did actually think that Britian woznt better off under Thatcher, seems pretty ovious i mean the woman started a war crushed Trade Unions, sold off all the public services and created problems we are still having to deal with now!!


Which war did Thatcher start? To my knowledge she didn't start any war.

The unions had some disgusting pratices in Thatcher's time and could you really say that the privitization of utilities has been bad?

[Just Joe]

Thatcher did enter the Falklands war. although the Argies started it with the invasion of the islands.

the women was also a mass murderer. 10 brave Irish men lost there lives in the fight for basic prison rights. the rights could have been given to them but the murder Thatcher refused. i think someone once said the only tragedy of the 1984 Brighton bombing was that Thatcher didn't die. bang on.

and even most tories admit a lot of the privatisation of services led to chaos and were a mistake.

[peaccenicked]

http://www.jrf.org.uk/links/
If you want to find out the truth of poverty in Britain start here.
Statistics on incomes,inflation, interest rates hide the truth.
Statistics in the UK have become like those under Stalin.
Crap.

[Liberty Lover]

basic prison rights

What a crock of shit

[Just Joe]

no substance, no real point, no real argument.

[Saint-Just]

Quote: from smith196 on 10:15 pm on Mar. 12, 2003

Quote: from The Sniper on 7:04 pm on Mar. 11, 2003
umm well duh! Sorry I thought that most ppl did actually think that Britian woznt better off under Thatcher, seems pretty ovious i mean the woman started a war crushed Trade Unions, sold off all the public services and created problems we are still having to deal with now!!


Which war did Thatcher start? To my knowledge she didn't start any war.

The unions had some disgusting pratices in Thatcher's time and could you really say that the privitization of utilities has been bad?


I agree, she did not start any war, but really should we occupt a land so far away, in my opinion we really should never have, but so many British lived there by that time. That war simply gained Thatchetr popularity.

'The unions had some disgusting pratices in Thatcher's time and could you really say that the privitization of utilities has been bad'

What disgusting practices, some of the sections of union laws were correct, but what about the ban on closed shops????????? that was disgusting. Privitisation of untilities was a disaster, everything, from trains to electricity, coal, water and so forth. What about the time in 1996 when the government could not even issue passports, that is absolutely unbleievable, the executive agency had taken being 'economic' so far they couldn't even issue enough passports. People dies because of train crashes, people can'y travel so well because of buses and trains.

Thatcher turned the Labour Party into a neo-liberal party....

[Moskitto]

Thatcher turned the Labour Party into a neo-liberal party....

a group of political analysts analysed what would have happened if thatcher wasn't prime minister, they came to the conclusion that Tony Blair would still br prime minister, but with the Conservative Party.

[Saint-Just]

Quote: from Moskitto on 11:06 pm on Mar. 14, 2003

Thatcher turned the Labour Party into a neo-liberal party....

a group of political analysts analysed what would have happened if thatcher wasn't prime minister, they came to the conclusion that Tony Blair would still br prime minister, but with the Conservative Party.

I very much agree, extremely funny. I can't imagine what we will see in the future, I hope our system doesn not turn so similar to the American one, where all three main parties remain right-wing, I do not have so much hope that the Labour party will ever turn back to its left-wing origins.

[smith196]

I agree with you that the privatisation of some industries wasn't a good idea such as the Railways. The decline in the railways has been shocking. You can't look at it all badly though. Privatisation has been good for some industries.

Thatcher didn't start the war. We don't "occupy" the Falklands they re a British territory because the people of the Islands are British and want to remain British. Argentina had no just claim to them and Thatcher was right to respond with military action.

Those Irish men did have basic prison rights. They were arguing for special prison rights as they saw themselves as POW's. Thatcher considered them terrorists and she was right.

[Invader Zim]

Quote: from Just Joe on 12:49 am on Mar. 14, 2003
Thatcher did enter the Falklands war. although the Argies started it with the invasion of the islands.

the women was also a mass murderer. 10 brave Irish men lost there lives in the fight for basic prison rights. the rights could have been given to them but the murder Thatcher refused. i think someone once said the only tragedy of the 1984 Brighton bombing was that Thatcher didn't die. bang on.

and even most tories admit a lot of the privatisation of services led to chaos and were a mistake.


I take it you are refering to bobby sands.

Bobby Sands Rot in hell

He was a murderer and he diserved prison. He starved himself to death he was a fool. And how is a prisoner commiting suicide Thatchers fault. I dont like her but i dislike terrorists even more.

If you dont like the British prison system i suggest you watch a film called scum. It is a real eye opener about British prison officers and how they beat the inmates, and allow them to get arse rapped etc. It would really hearten your Anti-British soul.

But you should always consider: -

"Gravis ira regum semper."

and before you come spouting bull shit think: -

Quidquid praecipies, esto brevis.

(as every one is fond of quoting in foreign languages i thought i would join in)

[Just Joe]

Quote: from smith196 on 10:28 pm on Mar. 15, 2003
Those Irish men did have basic prison rights. They were arguing for special prison rights as they saw themselves as POW's. Thatcher considered them terrorists and she was right.

the men didn't have basic prison rights. the Maze was not a prison where rules where obeyed. and i'd be the first to admit that rules were broken by the Prisoners aswell as the guards, but don't try to tell me the Maze was a prison like any other.

the POW debate is a stupid one because there can be no winner. i'd say as there actions were purely based on political motives, and that if the IRA won, the IRA prisoners would have been released upon victory, that they were political prisoners. but you'd say something else obviously.

[Just Joe]

I take it you are refering to bobby sands.

and the 9 other men.


Bobby Sands Rot in hell

yeah. are you AK-47 or Stormin' Normin'?


He was a murderer and he diserved prison.

but the paras who killed in bloody sunday don't deserve prison, right?

the Irish Republican Army was the official army of the Irish Republic as Republicans do not recognise the free state. therefore, the Irish Republic was at war with Britain. soldiers who kill during war do not go to prison, do they?


He starved himself to death he was a fool.

he died for what he believed in. he died for rights and he died with honour. he is the last great Irish hero following the likes of Tone and Connolly. he'll be remembered forever.


And how is a prisoner commiting suicide Thatchers fault. I dont like her but i dislike terrorists even more.

she didn't give Republican and Loyalist prisoners POW status which they had previously had. this caused the hunger strikes.


If you dont like the British prison system i suggest you watch a film called scum. It is a real eye opener about British prison officers and how they beat the inmates, and allow them to get arse rapped etc.

i've seen it. good film. has fuck all to do with the issue.


It would really hearten your Anti-British soul.

i want a united Ireland so i am anti-British? i'm not anti-British at all. hating a government or a history is not hating a whole group of people.


But you should always consider: -

"Gravis ira regum semper."

and before you come spouting bull shit think: -

Quidquid praecipies, esto brevis.

(as every one is fond of quoting in foreign languages i thought i would join in)


these say, what? posting latin don't make you sound clever either. then again, you could post a critique of Einsteins theory of relativity and you'd still be a slow witted jackass.


(Edited by Just Joe at 12:16 am on Mar. 16, 2003)

[Just Joe]

someone needs to get this quote option sorted.

[pastradamus]

Thatcher! that mouldy old ****!.........."well I theyyyyyyy can piss on us....then weeeeeeee can piss on them"

[canikickit]

AK-47 - don't be such an inflammatory idiot.

[smith196]

Just Joe you can't call the Para's killers. The original inquiry absolved them of blame and we'll have to wait for the outcome of the current inquiry before we know if the Para's attacked without provocation.

As for Sands i do admire him. I diasagree with his politics but i think you have to admire someone who is willing to starve himself to death for their political beliefs. Not many people would do that, he was a brave man.

[Invader Zim]

I admire Wolfe Tone. Now there was a freedom fighter. He faught for the freedom of the Irish people. He has no comparison to Bobby Sands.

POW... since when have the IRA been a ligitimate organisation or country. All they are is a bunch of terrorists, wh instaed or prison diserve transportation. Why waste your money on locking them up, just transport the buggers.

As for the Latin every one else especially Mexcan enjoys bullshiting in Gaelic, spanish etc. I though i would join in.

Gravis ira regum semper Means: -

The anger of kings is always serious. It refers to angering the authorities, i think that Bobby Sands should have considered that before killing people.

And the other one is a fine phrase before you start bull shiting again it means.

When you moralize, keep
it short

Quidquid praecipies, esto brevis.