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synthesis
11th March 2003, 04:29
I wanted to get an analysis by some socialists, capitalists, and Stalinists on this piece by ex-Klansman (their ex-national leader, in fact) and redneck extraordinaire David Duke. I can already shut down almost all of his points (it all revolves around how censored he thinks he is and therefore he must be right) but I wanted to see all the various groups here pick it apart. I'd especially like to see Capitalist Imperial look at the oil part... if he likes ;)




David Duke Online Radio Report 11-29-2002
The Iraqi War:
It's not about the oil, stupid!
by David Duke
Broadcast Date 11-29-2002
http://www.davidduke.com/radio

Representative David Duke at Al-Jazeera Satellite Network in Qatar

I just returned from Bahrain and Qatar. In Qatar I appeared on one of the most-watched television satellite channels in the world, Al-Jazeera. An audience of 70 million saw and listened to me expose the Jewish supremacist traitors in the U.S. Government who have sold out America to Israel. In violation of the United States Constitution, the Jewish-dominated U.S. State Department actually protested my appearance and tried to suppress my freedom of speech as an American citizen. More on that a little later, but first, I want to turn to one of the big lies about the coming war on Iraq, that lie is that Big Oil interests, rather than the Zionists, are behind the planned war.

The Zionists are masters at deception. Like the bait-and-switch sales tactics of American retail giants, some elements of the Jewish-dominated media in America have floated the idea that the coming war in Iraq is about oil. Sounding like a genuine dissident viewpoint, some patriots have unwittingly help spread this myth. One antiwar pundit adopted this theory and headlined, "It's about oil, stupid!"

These claims were originated simply to deflect the blame for the war from Israel and its fifth column in America. The warmongers anxiously want this war NOT to appear to be the result of the Israeli Fifth Column trying to strike down Israel's enemies one by one. By floating the idea that the war is about oil, a resource vital to America and Europe, the suggestion is that somehow it is in America's and Europe's economic interest to invade Iraq. The implication is that the war will somehow allow us to grab the oil, and so it will be good for the economy and the common man. Of course, the idea that we will just grab the oil is simply preposterous. Whatever new regime is in charge of Iraq will sell the oil at normal world spot prices!

A lot of good antiwar people have been deceived by this tactic, and are parroting the idea that it is big Oil that really behind this war. The Bush family ties to the oil industry are often cited in this scenario. And frankly, it is one thousand times easier in America to speak about conspiracies of the big bad Oil companies than to speak of the more open and more obvious Jewish conspiracies. Talk about big Oil conspiracies and some will call you wrong, but no one will accuse you of the great blasphemy of our age, the most evil of all heresies: so-called "anti-Semitism."

But really, does big Oil or America have a strong economic motivation for this war? A few obvious facts coupled with plain, old-fashioned reason will show you that the war against Iraq holds no real advantage for big Oil, in fact it offers them much peril. As far as concerning American and European economic interests at large, the war in Iraq will have devastating consequences, to say nothing of causing anti-American political unrest and horrendous terrorism.
Today, I will exam the economic consequences of the Iraqi war. The first question is "Do we have to go to war with Iraq to get its oil?" The answer is: "Of course we don't." We bought oil from Saddam Hussein before the Gulf War, and we can buy it now. If America, by this war, makes a regime change in Iraq, the American government is not simply going to pump the oil out of the ground and put the proceeds in our treasury. Those in political control in Iraq will still control the oil and still sell it to the world at the international prevailing spot oil prices.

And let me make this very clear, Iraq has the second largest oil reserves in the world. Giving Iraqi oil easier access to the world's markets will, after the flurry of wartime higher oil prices, eventually depress the price of oil. What does this mean to the big American and European oil companies who have the great bulk of their oil investments in the United States (such as in Texas, Louisiana and Alaska), in the North Sea, in Russia and in South America? Opening up the Iraqi market (and Iraq will need to sell huge quantities of oil after the war devastation) will ultimately mean, bottom line, depressed prices for oil reserves that Big Oil actually owns! The war will not help their profits but in the long run only hurt them. That is why Russia, a nation with large oil reserves but less Jewish influence, rightly opposes the war, knowing it will ultimately hurt their own oil business.

So, in the final analysis, Big Oil has no long-term interest in the overthrow of Saddam. And it must be admitted that Big Oil has no strong interest in normalizing relations with Iraq either. For if America normalizes relations with the current Iraqi regime, the oil will flow freely, just as it would if sanctions lifted after a so-called regime change. Either way, regime change or normalized relations would not necessarily be good for the Big Oil companies.
However, more oil on the market and resulting lower prices would be incredibly good for the American and European economy. Energy costs are one of the biggest expenses of our economy and civilization. Lower energy costs translate into lower prices, more money for wages, schools, and the other needs of society. If 30% of a company's expenses are energy related, and energy costs fall by a third, that company's revenues increase by 20 percent. That's more money for wages, and also somewhat lower prices that help everyone's standard of living.

Imagine if we offered to end the war and sanctions against Saddam and normalize relations in exchange for special lower oil prices for the next decade. Obviously, Saddam would jump at that opportunity

So, if Europe and America wants Iraqi oil and wants it at good prices, we can easily get it by ending sanctions against Iraq and returning to the quite cozy relationship we had before the Gulf War. And, if we demanded UN inspections and disarmament of BOTH Iraq and Israel for their weapons of mass destruction, suddenly the Israeli fifth column would quiet their demands against Iraq, because Israel is far more committed to their illegal weapons of mass destruction than is Iraq. Iraq has now ok'd inspections. I can't even imagine Israel ever doing that!

On the other hand, a regime change would also certainly open up the oil pipelines, but after the change there would not be the motivation to negotiate as good an oil price as with the Saddam government. Iraq has a tremendous incentive to make a very good oil deal for us right now. Once the regime changes, the incentive is gone. Look at recent history. We certainly cannot and will not force a new regime to give us bargain prices for oil. As always, in normal times oil will be bought and sold on the international oil market. But now, of course, we a very special case, America has a lot of leverage to make a deal with Saddam Hussein: a deal he couldn't refuse!

In terms of the European and American economy, the Iraqi War can be catastrophic. Right now our economies are weak and struggling. The temporary spike in oil prices and the enormous expenditures of such a war can destroy our fragile economy and push us into a terrible world depression. Perhaps even more importantly, an American invasion would be throwing gasoline on the already glowing fires of terrorism throughout the Mideast. We already have learned the lesson that terrorism can have a terrible impact not only on lives, but also on our economy. Look what it has done to transportation and tourist industry and the ripple effect across the entire economic spectrum.

One more note, if Western economies and businesses suffer, then the biggest consumers of oil and oil related energy also suffer. Thus, the demands of our economy for oil falls, and if less oil is consumed, prices fall further and again -- the Big Oil companies are harmed. And don't forget that most of the Big Oil companies are now quite diversified. They have huge investments in all kinds of businesses in Europe and America. They also will be devastated by a suffering economy.

Before parroting the canard that Big Oil wants this war, think about all the facts at hand. If our attack on Iraq causes fundamentalist revolutions across the Arab world, what happens to the billions of dollars of Big Oil's current investments in the Mideast, such as in Saudi Arabia where Western oil companies have enormous investment? Is it in their advantage to have those businesses possibly taken over by new and radically anti-American governments?
No, it's not the oil, stupid!! It's Israel! It is Israel and the Jewish supremacists around the world who are the real force behind this war.

It's the traitors in the United States government and in the media who will sacrifice American lives, security and economic well-being in order to support the criminal activities of Israel and its mass-murderer, Prime Minister Ariel Sharon.

As I have repeatedly documented in the Duke Report, Israel has even committed terrorism against America. Even the Israeli government had to admit this in the Lavon Affair! Of course, the Jewish media doesn't talk about Israeli terrorism against America, doesn't allow Americans to get angry about it, and it doesn't even oppose the flow of American money to Israel after it attacked the USS Liberty and killed and maimed American sailors by the score. Even our secretary of state said the attack on the USS Liberty was clearly a deliberate act against the United States!

After Israeli terrorist attacks against America and after Israel spies such as Jonathan Pollard devastated our spy network in Eastern Europe, billions of American dollars just kept flowing to Israel!

Our Jewish-controlled government and media won't even address the copious evidence showing Israeli complicity in the 911 attack. The WTC had an Israeli co-owner and was at the center of world Jewish finance and trade, but inexplicably did not have even a single Israeli casualty. This amazing fact flies in the face of the fact that the Jerusalem Post stated on the next day after September 11 that about 4000 Israelis citizens were believed to be in the area of the World Trade Center. We are supposed to believe in a modern Jewish miracle equal to the parting of the Red Sea. We are supposed to believe that not one Israeli casuality is possible without advanced warning to at least some of the Israelis. Anyone who thinks seriously about the matter and reviews the evidence will learn of the Israeli treachery in 911. But, again, the Jewish-controlled media and government never let the public focus on these things.

Newsweek magazine dated November 25th in the Periscope section decried my recent lecture tour in Bahrain and my appearance on the Arab Al-Jazeera satellite network. Here is an excerpt from its Jewish journalist:


But U.S. officials are keeping an eye on Al-Jazeera's programs, which sometimes include anti-U.S. rhetoric and conspiracy theories packaged as news. One example: on Nov. 13, a talk show featured former Ku Klux Klan leader David Duke , who was labeled as an ex-GOP representative from Louisiana (Duke once served in the Louisiana House of Representatives). Duke used the air time to vent an assortment of anti-Semitic canards, saying Israel sat on warnings of 9-11, and Israelis in the Twin Towers were warned to evacuate two hours before the attacks. The State Department lodged a protest with Al-Jazeera over the Duke broadcast.

First, the article implies I wasn't a GOP official. Of course, I amindeed an ex-GOP official. After I served in the House of Representatives, I was elected to the executive committee of the largest Republican district in Louisiana and then unanimously chosen by the other members of the elected Republican committee as Chairman for St. Tammany Parish from 1996 to 2000.

Next, the article acknowledges the incredible fact that the U.S. Government protested my appearing on the Arab satellite network. My question is: who gave the U.S. State Department authority to officially protest against an American citizen criticizing Israel on a international television talk show. Since when does the American government have the authority or the right to infringe upon the free speech of an American citizen? Isn't such an attempt bythe American government to suppress my freedom of speech a clear and obvious violation of the United States Constitution's Bill of Rights?

If they can attempt to infringe on my free speech, they can do it to any American citizen. They can do it to anyone who dares to expose the crimes of Israel. Of course, what the Jewish supremacists really fear is my exposing the anti-American treason going on inside the United States government itself! When the American people learn the truth about this naked treason there will be hell to pay.

Newsweek also said that my facts exposing Israeli treachery in 911 is quote, "an anti-Semitic canard," unquote. Of course, Jewish supremacists in the American press suggest official Saudi involvement in 911, that's no problem. In fact, there is now a wholesale attack by the Jewish press in America on Saudi Arabia because a Saudi Princess helped pay for the medical expenses of an injured Arab woman. It turned out she was the wife of a Saudi man who is alleged to have been later involved in the hijacking. Even though this not even remotely proves official Saudi involvement in 911, no media personalities refer to allegations of Saudi government involvement in 911 as an "anti-Arab" or as an "anti-Semitic canard" (Arabs are, of course, a Semitic people). But if you dare to lay out the clear and copious evidence of past Israeli terrorism against America and Israel's obvious foreknowledge of the attacks of 911, then you are automatically labeled "anti-Semitic," probably the most hateful and onerous title that can be conferred on a human being.

The Jewish supremacist's power is unique, and it is enormous. Its fifth column of traitors in America ultimately caused the attack on the World Trade Center by leading America to blindly support the criminal and murderous regime of Ariel Sharon and Israel. Then, in 911, after warning a number of Israeli citizens of the impending attack, Israeli agents treacherously let this horrendous attack go on to serve their own murderous ends in the Mideast. Israeli Mossad agents were even caught and arrested shortly after filming and cheering during the actual attacks on the WTC!

And now these traitors sponsor and push for a massive escalation of the war on Iraq. It is a war that can only hurt America in every conceivable way. It will devastate our economy, our security, our freedoms. The war in Iraq is not in America's interest, it is not even in the interests of Big Bad Oil. It's not the oil, stupid!!!! It's the Jews! The only ones who have a true interest in this war are the Jewish supremacists and their well-rewarded servants, such as George Bush!

We must continue to educate our people on this vital point. The most important issue of our time is the Jewish supremacy over our media, our government, our economy, our culture, our future. They are leading us to utter ruin. It is not just Palestine that is occupied by Jewish supremacists; it is New York and Washington D.C. It is not just the West Bank of the river Jordan they occupy; it is the East Bank of the Potomac! I told Arab television that the main difference between the West Bank Palestinians and the Average American, is that the average American does know that his nation is occupied.

If you truly believe in freedom and justice, you will join me in opposing their power. I will continue to tell the truth about this no matter how much the government tries to discredit and silence me. I, as much as anyone, realize that there is a great risk to opposing their power, but I will not rest until I do my small part stop this naked treason against the American people. And, as a truly patriotic American, I will not agree to my country being immorally used to support the criminal and murderous policies of Israel. While we still can: let's prevent this anti-American war, a war that can only hurt America, this Jewish-supremacist war against Iraq.

Won't you stand up with me for truth and justice? Won't you stand up with me for America!

Sincerely, David Duke




Bunch of fucking bullshit, eh? What a loony.

peaccenicked
11th March 2003, 04:54
Making the middle east safe for Isreal is part and parcel
of Leftist thinking on Iraq. It is easy to see how Anti-semites can hone in on this and isolate and twist it for their own anti-semite aggenda. Leftists also say that jews are not all zionists and point to refuseniks in the Isreali army.
Zionism is a pernicious fascist ideology which has lobbyists in the USA. It is also true that the USA is the main supporter of the Zionist government in Isreal.

''The Zionists are masters at deception. Like the bait-and-switch sales tactics of American retail giants, some elements of the Jewish-dominated media in America have floated the idea that the coming war in Iraq is about oil. Sounding like a genuine dissident viewpoint, some patriots have unwittingly help spread this myth. One antiwar pundit adopted this theory and headlined, "It's about oil, stupid!" ''
This quote is very ignorant and pernicious example of
Dukes fascist jewish conspiracy theory.
The oil lust of America is continually exposed by all leftists jewish or not as imperialism.
The truth is that Isreal like the UK are practising outposts of the US empire and this coming war is for US hegomony in an oil rich region.
One of the truths of this came from Madeline Albright when she said sanctions would not stop even if Saddam disarmed.
The theory that zionists blew up the WTC has been part of popular Arab conspiracy theory since 9/11. This accusation again is aimed at white racist America playing the anti semite card as is his whole fiasco with Al Jazerra who never should have give the racist airspace.



(Edited by peaccenicked at 4:57 am on Mar. 11, 2003)


(Edited by peaccenicked at 4:59 am on Mar. 11, 2003)

synthesis
11th March 2003, 05:24
Well, I think it's obvious to even a casual observer that Israel will benefit from a war on Iraq. I doubt any leftist would ever deny this Colin Powell himself stated that Iraq funneled a lot of money to Palestinian freedom fighters.

Duke's folly, I think, is attempting to expose his limited understanding of economics as absolute truth and then using this limited knowledge to claim that the war on Iraq is ONLY a war for Israel - no more, no less - that "Big Oil" will, in fact, LOSE from this endeavor. He is, in effect, saying that if you disagree with his views that the war is ONLY for Israel, you're nothing but a "commie Jew-queer" or a "misguided leftist Jew-tool."

Personally, I think he's full of shit.

Valkyrie
11th March 2003, 07:18
Yeah, though he can't constitutionally be censored, and I wish he was, I hope most people in the US and elsewhere would look at the background of the messenger-- former Imperial Grand Wizard of the Klu Klux Klan, and thus disregard the content of his message no matter how persuasive it may appeal to some anti-war supporters, especially those who aside from their pacifism are otherwise politically naive and easily swayed. Hopefully, his blatant anti-semetism and racism raises red flags to the transparent attempt to align himself to that cause and shows the real motivation toward his sinister machinations.

It's interesting that he corrects misinformation of his political affiliations but fails to mention the frightening fact that he ran for President of the Populist Party in 1988, got on the ballot and scarier yet, got some votes.

1988 U.S. Presidential Election Results:

Candidate (Party Label) Popular Vote Percent of Popular Vote Electoral Vote

George Bush (Republican) 48,881,221 (426 electoral votes)
Michael Dukakis (Democrat) 41,805,422 (111 electoral votes)
Ron Paul (Libertarian) 432,116
Lenora Fulani (New Alliance) 217,219
David Duke (Populist) 47,047
Eugene McCarthy (Consumer) 30,905
James C. Griffin (American Indpendent) 27,818
Lyndon LaRouche (National Economic) 25,542
William Marra (Right To Life) 20,504
Edward Winn (Workers League) 18,662
James Mac Warren (Socialist Workers) 15,604
Herbert Lewin (Peace & Freedom) 10,370
Earl Dodge (Prohibition) 8,002
Larry Holmes (Workers World) 7,846
Willa Kenoyer (Socialist) 3,882
Delmar Dennis (American) 3,475
Jack Herer (Grass Roots) 1,949
Louis Younkeit (Independent) 372
John G. Martin (Third World Assembly) 236
Write-ins 21,039
"None of the Above" (in Nevada) 6,934



(Edited by Paris at 7:40 am on Mar. 11, 2003)

Old Friend
11th March 2003, 08:58
David Duke is just as guilty of sedition as the human shields that ventured over to Iraq in hopes of undermining the war effort. By appearing on the major propaganda outlet for the enemy, and espousing the kind of views he holds he is emboldening the enemy.

He has much in common with Al Qaeda, as anti-semitism is the basis for both of their worldviews. The type of propaganda used by Duke is similar to the type used to brainwash the minds of children in the madrassas.

Certainly, Al Qaeda is looking to recruit some of our more right-wing radical white supremacists within this country to compromise some of the security measures we have taken. The advantage of using white-supremacist organizations lies in the fact that they don't necessarily match the expected profile. They are more likely to blend into this environment and might be able to operate under the radar screen.

If the FBI and the CIA were wise, they would view this anti-government, anti-Jewish mentality with the same mistrust being applied to many of the immigrants coming from states where the Islamic view aligns so perfectly with the Nazis. If current revelations regarding the Oklahoma City bombing are true, then we have already seen the devastation that cooperation between the two groups can cause.

The danger of having Nazis operating within our own borders most definitely falls under the terrorist classification. It has been shown that Nazis are willing to resort to terrorism to fulfill their agenda. It is just as plausible to assume that a link exists between Nazi organizations and Al Qaeda, for the purpose of arming and funding terrorism in the U.S., as it is to assume that Al Qaeda is collaborating with Saddam Hussein, for the purpose of acquiring WMD. All have very much the same goal, and probably would be willing to set their differences aside in order to combat a shared enemy. They most likely assume that they can turn on each other at a later date, for now they may agree to milk each other for everything they are worth.

This is how I would view the terrorist threat at his point in time. Our most likely source of terrorism comes from groups that are able to feign the role of the good American, somebody whose ethnicity does not initiate bells and whistles, somebody who shares Al Qaeda's hatred of America. I suspect white-supremacist groups as much as I suspect the communists. It would not be too difficult for Al Qaeda to find groups matching this description that they could approach; nor would it be too difficult for those groups to capitalize on the chaos of our social structure, in order to bask in virtual anonymity, while they plan the next a major event. It is not unlikely that such a group would take funding and resources from foreign terrorists, or the states that sponsor them.

In short, I think profiling is good, as it allows law enforcement to limit the scope of the search, and allocate resources efficiently. However, we must be very careful about how narrow our vision becomes, because it is extremely possible that such scrutiny will drive Muslim extremists to look to exploit other potential threats that previously existed within our borders. In the mean time, we are busy misdirecting ourselves, while those groups we have since forgotten about become the next likely agents for Al Qaeda.

(Edited by Old Friend at 11:14 am on Mar. 11, 2003)

Old Friend
11th March 2003, 20:48
Well, Dyermaker, I wrote it for you. Do you have any thoughts about my views? I would like to hear what you thought when you read my latest work, which implies that white-supremacists groups should come under the spectre of the various intelligence organizations tasked with the job of providing information that will allow us to defend ourselves from the next terrorist plot. Should espousing anti-semitic views on al Jazeera be labeled as sedition? Should we infiltrate the Nazi groups in addition to the mosques? Should we be concerned about a link between Al Qaeda and Nazi groups?

timbaly
12th March 2003, 02:19
Quote: from Paris on 2:18 am on Mar. 12, 2003
"None of the Above" (in Nevada) 6,934

I know it's off topic but what would happen if "none of the above" won the popular vote in Nevada? Where would the electors go?

Palmares
12th March 2003, 02:23
Quote: from timbaly on 12:19 pm on Mar. 12, 2003

Quote: from Paris on 2:18 am on Mar. 12, 2003
"None of the Above" (in Nevada) 6,934

I know it's off topic but what would happen if "none of the above" won the popular vote in Nevada? Where would the electors go?

Sounds like the Anarchist vote.

synthesis
12th March 2003, 02:44
Well, I think you write with passion. I think you're missing one important fact, though, and that is that the white supremacist groups are monitored. I read that the fuckin' prime minister of Germany declared that he was going to commence hacker attacks on Stormfront (the biggest gathering of skinheads, klansmen, neo-nazis, and other scum on the 'net).

(On like ABC, or something, not their site)

There have been a SHITLOAD of arrests of white supremacist leaders recently, as well. David Duke, who used to be the head Klansman and wrote this article, was recently arrested, as well as Matt Hale (you wrote a letter to him, remember?) Ernst Zundel (a famous Holocaust denier) and three or four other people as well.

(I'd like to say that free speech should always be preserved, as I normally would, but deep down I feel happy this happened :biggrin: )

Old Friend
12th March 2003, 03:37
Although I was unaware of some of the arrests you mentioned, I have known that these groups have remained under scrutiny. The reason I ignored this fact in my piece was to drive home the fact that they should remain under investigation, and should not be ignored simply because a more pressing threat exists. It is highly probable that such a limited scope would place those white-supremacists groups in the role of Al Qaeda operatives.

Do you know what Hale and the others were charged with? I think this would be an excellent example of using peoples words to determine whether or not they may warrant investigation into some of their other activities.

Old Friend
12th March 2003, 03:45
You may find this FBI document to be of some interest, Dyermaker.

"PROJECT MEGIDDO, is an FBI strategic assessment of the potential for domestic terrorism in the United States undertaken in anticipation of or response to the arrival of the new millennium." (http://www.terrorism.com/documents/publicmegiddo.pdf)

It is a little dated. However, it shows that some of the concerns I expressed may not be all that far fetched. I have not read the new assessment after 9-11. I am sure most of it remains similar to the Project Megiddo assessment.

Valkyrie
12th March 2003, 03:48
"None of the Above" would have to be running unoppossed to shut down elections in Nevada.

The other name to know is Richard Butler, head of the Aryan Nation, though he is on the decline in recent years, 85 years old, and has turned over the reigns to his younger minions. Also factionous infighting has caused a split in their racist ranks and resulted in the creation of some offspring groups.



(Edited by Paris at 4:58 pm on Mar. 16, 2003)

Capitalist Imperial
12th March 2003, 03:50
You get no argument from me, DyerMaker, I'm sure that one thing that we can both agree on is the sheer lunacy of Duke and his Klan ilk.

Although it is a fact that Israel will yield incidental benefit from Americn/British action in Iraq, that is not my main concern. Saddam and his regime must be ousted, and the secondary objective of securing US petroleum interests is also important.

I'm tired of paying 2.05/Gallon for regular grade gasoline (Thats right, standard measure, accept no substitutes!). Swift eradication of Saddam's regime will bring the price down significantly, and that is an imperative for Americans.

Oh, and don't any of you European panty waists whine back to me about how good we have it with petrol here in the US, and that I should somehow be happy just because you have to pay the equivalent of $15/galon or something, as your nation's fossil fuel economics are your problem.

peaccenicked
12th March 2003, 03:58
CI.Your petrol prices and Saddam. how interesting?

Old Friend
12th March 2003, 04:08
Hey, Stomin, I'd like to hear what new revelations have been revealed about the OK bombing. Do you have links or articles?

sources:
The Manilla Times (http://www.manilatimes.net/national/2002/feb/15/top_stories/20020215top1.html)

Media Bypass Magazine (http://users.mo-net.com/mlindste/mcvey-13.html)

The O'Rielly Factor (http://www.mastalk.com/oklahoma/fox/fox.html)

The Wall Street Journal (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/744833/posts)

(Edited by Old Friend at 6:10 am on Mar. 12, 2003)

synthesis
12th March 2003, 04:11
Although I despise the Klan with every cell of blood in my body, I must admit that I have no particular love for the ADL, either. I am quite frankly disgusted at their zeal in proclaiming all anti-Zionists as Hitlerites and anti-Semites. They aren't making many friends with that behavior.

As for the arrests, I don't know much about Hale's situation. Duke's had something to do with tax evasion and Zundel's had something to do with his work visa or something to that effect. Needless to say, the Nazis are pissing themselves.

Totalitarian
12th March 2003, 04:22
Quote: from DyerMaker on 2:44 am on Mar. 12, 2003

There have been a SHITLOAD of arrests of white supremacist leaders recently, as well. David Duke, who used to be the head Klansman and wrote this article, was recently arrested, as well as Matt Hale (you wrote a letter to him, remember?) Ernst Zundel (a famous Holocaust denier) and three or four other people as well.

(I'd like to say that free speech should always be preserved, as I normally would, but deep down I feel happy this happened :biggrin: )


First they came for the white nationalists...... etc. etc.

Totalitarian
12th March 2003, 04:30
The zionists are big trouble. Their actions in the middle east are, well, Nazi-like.

Currently white supremacists have little to no political power, and thus the zionists (who actually do have alot of power) are far more of a threat.

And doesn't anyone find it ominous that people are now being arrested for their political beliefs? The Bush regime is currently going after targets that are generally unpopular, such as white nationalists, muslim antisemites etc.

How soon before they start coming for YOU because of YOUR beliefs? By then, it will be too late to start protesting about "free speech" because you casually dismissed the right of people like Duke, Zundel etc. to their free speech

synthesis
12th March 2003, 04:36
Quote: from Totalitarian on 4:30 am on Mar. 12, 2003
Currently white supremacists have little to no political power

That's not true, David Duke recently won 60% of the white vote in Louisiana for...senator, I think?

Old Friend
12th March 2003, 05:11
"Roy Armstrong, who said he is Duke's bodyguard and a caretaker at the house, said agents told him they were looking into whether Duke was illegally using money for his new organization, the National Organization For European-American Rights (NOFEAR), for personal use."

Source: CBS News (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2000/11/16/national/main250162.shtml)

Why haven't they arrested Jesse Jackson for the same misuse of funds? Curious.


And doesn't anyone find it ominous that people are now being arrested for their political beliefs?

Looks like he was arrested because he abused his 501©3 status, not specifically because of his views. However, if you are disliked by many, it is more probable that they will look harder for life's little indiscretions.

Old Friend
12th March 2003, 19:37
I find this topic to be interesting. Therefore, I am bringing it back up, in hopes of generating further discussion.

antieverything
12th March 2003, 22:43
Anyone here read Southern Poverty Law Center's periodical, "Intelligence Report"? It'll give you a pretty good idea to what extent these guys are freakin idiots...the problem is that there are tons and tons of idiotic sympathizers for them!

synthesis
13th March 2003, 06:09
Why haven't they arrested Jesse Jackson for the same misuse of funds?

I've never heard about this, but it doesn't surprise me.

I just remembered what Matt Hale got arrested for, by the way. Basically, some other Christian church named the World Church of the Creator was pissed as hell that the anti-Christian WCOTC had stolen their name (since the Christian one had been around long beforehand) and some judge (a white woman, ironically) ordered members to have all their books burned and their internet address revoked.

Apparently, Matt Hale tried to put out a hit on the judge. I suspect he'll be taking it up the ass very soon in a federal prison from his cellmate. Karma's a *****, ain't it? :biggrin:

Red Painter
13th March 2003, 10:27
IMPERIAL CAPITALIST,

I have a story for you. There was a time in history when the Greek Empire was shining, then the Greek Empire rose and fell. The Roman Empire was shining, it rose and fell and barbarians took over for a period of time------------- all the same for the French, British, Spanish and whatever empire you wanna call it. I think your country underestimates the capabilities of other nations and rebel organisations (like Al-Qaida) in the world. The U.S. has forgot one simple physical fact of our little world "" what goes up must come down"", principle of physics. Yes, the US is shining but the time has come for the downfall. Capitalism is coming to an end, you know why? because people and the world under capitalism has unlimited needs versus limited ressources.

Bush's war on terrorism is the start of the end because this story will weaken the US in the coming years. Also, I do believe that George W. Bush is the biggest presidential dissapointment to have been elected in the history of the US. He is a disapointment not only to your country but to the whole world and also to the democracie, freedom of speech that you americans preach. America is proclaiming to be a free and democatric nation. Yet, George W Bush and the CIA is taken away that freedom and democracy by making you hate other poor countries and making you believe what he wants you to believe by false media. When in the '90's, during the first Gulf War, they were saying that 1 or 2 US fighter jets were shot down by enemy fire. Guess what , I did a little trip to Italy and Holland in the same period and the news were not the same in Europe. All of a sudden, instead of 1 or 2 US planes, the news was like 20 or 30 US shot down fighter planes. Please wake up and stand up. The media is biased and controlled, you will hear want they want you to hear, your goverment has not learned their lessons from the beatings it took from the Vietman era. Your people should ( at least the working and struggling class)wake up and stand up ( start a revolution),-----YOU ARE THE MOST DISINFORMED PEOPLE OF THIS PLANET, instead of dropping bombs on other starving nations, why not help those nations by giving food and aid and leaving them alone in peace.


YOUR PEOPLE HAVE TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT GEORGE BUSH AND THOSE UNDER HIM.

QUOTE
"" I WANT MY CHILDREN TO LIVE IN A FREE WORLD, WERE NO WARS ARE KNOWN TO MAN KIND, WERE IT'S FREE FROM ALL RELIGIONS, WERE ALL NATIONS AND CULTURES OF THE WHOLE ARE RESPECTED, AND WERE PEOPLES ACTIONS ARE NOT DOMINATED BY CAPITAL MARKETS TO THE EXPENSE AND BLOOD OF OTHER POOR NATIONS AND THE WORKING CLASS, IT IRRITATES ME TO KNOW THAT A COMPANY LIKE " NIKE" MAKES IT'S PROFITS WITH VERY LOW WAGED CHILD LABOR IN FAR -EASTERN COUNTRIES"

ONE LAST THING IMPERIAL, PLEASE BREAK YOUR T.V.-----YOUR CNN NEWS= NOT REAL NEWS (ALLOT OF LIES)

Show me the Money
13th March 2003, 10:54
the US stopped shining at least a half-a century ago, imo.

now it has gotten so much kicked, it's not only not shining, it's a wreckage.

Sub-Comandante Show Me The Money.

(Edited by Show me the Money at 11:58 am on Mar. 13, 2003)

Totalitarian
14th March 2003, 05:38
Do you guys really think that these group of white nationalists/supremacists/antisemites all arrested in a short space of time after the "war on terrorism" begins, would have been treated the same if they were not publishers of "hate propaganda" (as the US bureaucrats and police refer to it)

Their agenda of racial separatism is not one i can agree with unless either a) the alternative is genocide or B) it is peaceful and voluntary.

I think preserving biodiversity (including intra-hominid diversity) is an idea which should be given a fair hearing

Just think of the implications of these politically-motivated arrests...they've been doing it to racial minorities in the USA for years and now its the turn of white separatists...why? Are they the last group of people prepared to actively defend "national sovereignty" ? Are they thus considered to be a threat by those who want capital concentrated in the hands of the few..planetwide!!?

Because as you all realise, a nation is simply a social construct, and america is more a collection of nations than a single one. Multiracial nation-states are more easily decentralised, and this is occurs very often along racial, ethnic, cultural or spiritual lines especially in times of crises.

There's a war on now, Bush says. A war on "terrorists", which has so far included an intervention in the afghan civil war to impose a new government, and a similar effort in the pipeline for iraq and possibly other states. There is no clear end in sight for this "war", no defined enemy, merely an ever-shifting and ever allusive menace, the threat of "terror"

Machines have become unpredictable yet powerful assets for global capital, in particular western capital. These will be used against the people by the greedy and materialist, but they are also weapons for the people. The state (in america) has declared its enemies, those who are to be stripped of civil rights. These are the terrorists, or anyone who wittingly or unwittingly (as in the case of buying products that were produced or handled by those labelled terrorists) provides help for terrorists.

The US government already keeps political prisoners because of the "drugwar". Now in this new "terrorwar" there are whites, arabs, muslims being arrested by groups like the JOINT TERRORISM TASK FORCE (JTTF)

This group sounds like the new Gestapo, and anyone deemed an "enemy" by the tech state of america can be rounded up and taken away...last time a world war broke out, the americans interned japanese and germans based on ethnicity!












Capitalist Imperial
17th March 2003, 06:44
[quote]Quote: from Red Painter on 10:27 am on Mar. 13, 2003


"IMPERIAL CAPITALIST,"

Its Capitalist Imperial

"I have a story for you. There was a time in history when the Greek Empire was shining, then the Greek Empire rose and fell. The Roman Empire was shining, it rose and fell and barbarians took over for a period of time------------- all the same for the French, British, Spanish and whatever empire you wanna call it."

Tired comparisons between pre-industrial and post industrial empires are tired, rehashed, and highly fallible. Economics, politics, communications, military capability, and technology between the two eras is different, and the extent to which empires are established in their respective spheres of influence are much greater in modewrn times than they used to be. America is still growing, not declining, much to the chagrin of you anti-american gadflys. We are a nation in expansion, with growing GDP, population, and world interests. We will not fall anytime soon, so don't stick around waiting for the end of America. It won't happen in your lifetime.

"I think your country underestimates the capabilities of other nations and rebel organisations (like Al-Qaida) in the world."

True, Al Queda took us by surprise, but we do not underestimate their capability. Despite a lot of grandstanding by them via radio broadcasts and viseotape, ever since the US went on the offensive, Al Queda has been destroyed, diminished, and dismantled. There has not been one operation to compromise US interests by al queda since 9/11, and that is because American forces are kicking the shit out of them. Have we found Bin Laden? No, but that is not as important as the fact that we are destroying AL-queda facilities and cutting their means of funding operations. As for other nations, I fail to see where we have underestimnated them.

"The U.S. has forgot one simple physical fact of our little world "" what goes up must come down"", principle of physics. Yes, the US is shining but the time has come for the downfall."

You are applying principles of physics to a poli-economic concept? That is highly illogical, and makes little sense.

"Capitalism is coming to an end, you know why? because people and the world under capitalism has unlimited needs versus limited ressources."

Unlimited needs and finite resources is a principle of all economics, not just capitalism. And capitalism is not ending, to the contrary, its growing. America and Western eEurope are expanding. Emerging markets are emerging as capitalist markets. Where do you get your facts from? Because you couldn't be more wrong. You seem pretty stupid to be making completely ignorant statemants like this.

"Bush's war on terrorism is the start of the end because this story will weaken the US in the coming years. Also, I do believe that George W. Bush is the biggest presidential dissapointment to have been elected in the history of the US. He is a disapointment not only to your country but to the whole world and also to the democracie, freedom of speech that you americans preach."

How so? My freedoms have not been compromised.

"America is proclaiming to be a free and democatric nation. Yet, George W Bush and the CIA is taken away that freedom and democracy by making you hate other poor countries and making you believe what he wants you to believe by false media."

This is a classic anti-american lie. Our government does not control our media. This has been discussed on this board many times. We have more freedom of information, and from more varied sources, than any nation on earth. It is in communist nations that government controls and censors the media.


"When in the '90's, during the first Gulf War, they were saying that 1 or 2 US fighter jets were shot down by enemy fire. Guess what , I did a little trip to Italy and Holland in the same period and the news were not the same in Europe. All of a sudden, instead of 1 or 2 US planes, the news was like 20 or 30 US shot down fighter planes."

Oh, so Holland and Italy know more about how many US fighters were shot down than the US does? Look, man, you can check any source you like, and It will tell you that the USA did not lose 20-30 planes in the Gulf war, so take your lies elsewhere. If the US lost 30 planes, the people would eventually find out from private media sources. You, sir, are full of propoganda.

"Please wake up and stand up. The media is biased and controlled, you will hear want they want you to hear, your goverment has not learned their lessons from the beatings it took from the Vietman era."

Why do you anti-american pundits deperately cling to Vietnam to try to discredit America? That was 35 years ago! What about every other operation America has undertook, that has been successful? By the way, our military really didn't take a beating in Vietnam. Most of our battles were victories. Our government was one that made the mistakes with the political aspects of controling the war. As for the military, US fforces kicked the shit out of the NVA and vietcong daily. Attrition rates lay claim to this fact.

"Your people should ( at least the working and struggling class)wake up and stand up ( start a revolution),-----YOU ARE THE MOST DISINFORMED PEOPLE OF THIS PLANET, instead of dropping bombs on other starving nations, why not help those nations by giving food and aid and leaving them alone in peace."

Spare me you bullshit propoganda. Nations that feel the force of american action trightly deserve it. Why don't you blame Saddam Hussein for the situation in Iraq, instead of the USA?


"YOUR PEOPLE HAVE TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT GEORGE BUSH AND THOSE UNDER HIM."

George bush has a 68% approval rating.


"ONE LAST THING IMPERIAL, PLEASE BREAK YOUR T.V.-----YOUR CNN NEWS= NOT REAL NEWS (ALLOT OF LIES)"

I don't watch CNN too much. You make too many ignorant assumptions.

Capitalist Imperial
17th March 2003, 06:46
Quote: from Show me the Money on 10:54 am on Mar. 13, 2003
the US stopped shining at least a half-a century ago, imo.

now it has gotten so much kicked, it's not only not shining, it's a wreckage.

Sub-Comandante Show Me The Money.

(Edited by Show me the Money at 11:58 am on Mar. 13, 2003)


Can you be specific as to where the US has "gotten so much kicked"?

Really, I would like to know how you can justify this comment.

Capitalist Imperial
17th March 2003, 06:50
Quote: from Show me the Money on 10:54 am on Mar. 13, 2003
the US stopped shining at least a half-a century ago, imo.

now it has gotten so much kicked, it's not only not shining, it's a wreckage.

Sub-Comandante Show Me The Money.

(Edited by Show me the Money at 11:58 am on Mar. 13, 2003)


Can you be specific as to where the US has "gotten so much kicked"?

Really, I would like to know how you can justify this comment.

synthesis
17th March 2003, 19:59
I don't see how U.S. world hegemony has ended at all in the last fifty years.

Hampton
17th March 2003, 20:47
Why do you anti-american pundits deperately cling to Vietnam to try to discredit America? That was 35 years ago!

Isn't that the same thing you do when you complain about the French? Use WWII as an example to discredit everything the French have ever done?

queen of diamonds
17th March 2003, 21:12
Duke has some radical ideas, but it's food for thought. But he's right about the Russians - they definitely stand to lose from this. His idea of all Jews being Zionists, however, is a misrepresentation too often indulged.

As to the media, JFK manipulated it, Clinton manipulated it, why not Bush? But for the record, I don't think the government is manipulating the media, I think self-interest is. Whatever the people want to read gets published - and that's rarely the truth.