anyone here actually believe that capitalism is the root cause of terrorism and war?

[danyboy27]

is anyone actually believing this over there?

[PigmerikanMao]

yes :(

[Dr Mindbender]

is anyone actually believing this over there?
can you suggest a different source?

[danyboy27]

i believe capitalism is a factor, but i dont think its the cause alone.

[PigmerikanMao]

No, it isn't the cause alone, there are other causes that are factors- greed for example, and hate, all which eventually stem from one source, however- capitalism. :thumbup1:

[Plagueround]

i believe capitalism is a factor, but i dont think its the cause alone.

Please explain your position so we can better discuss the situation. What do you feel are the other motivating factors for terrorism and war?

[Red_or_Dead]

No. War and terrorism are much older than capitalism.

Capitalism may be the no.1 cause for war and terrorism today. But it certainly isnt the only reason, nor is it a root for war and terrorism in general.

[RGacky3]

In the big picture, yes, completely, more specifically its caused by things caused by capitalism, like imperialism, poverty, puppet governments, commercialism and the such, all of which can ultimately be traced back to Capitalism and the lust for profit. The religious factor is a factor, but if you listen to what radical islamists have been talking about, especially al quaeda and its off shoots, it goes back to the Saudi government, unilateral support for israel and specifically American troops on Saudi soil.

Western governments want to come up with other unsolvable fantasy reasons like "they hate our freedoms," which is the dumbest lie I've heard in a while and just shows how dumb politicians think people are, they come up with that stuff so they never have any pressure to solve the real underlying reasons.

[Killfacer]

red or dead is right. War and terrorism have been going on a hell of alot long than capitalism. Capitalism may be a factor but it certainly is not the root cause.

[RHIZOMES]

Root source of war and most terrorism. A lot of terrorists just do it because they're insane.

[Dros]

The material conditions are the root source of all war and terrorism. Capitalism is at the heart of most of those things.

[Killfacer]

Lardi bloody da. Why couldnt you just say "yes" you pretencious arse hole.

[Bud Struggle]

No.

The root cause of terrorism and war is and always has been all through history: nationalism and religion. Economics is and always has been a minor factor.

[RHIZOMES]

No.

The root cause of terrorism and war is and always has been all through history: nationalism and religion. Economics is and always has been a minor factor.

Those are more often than not only tools for the authorities to get the masses to support the war other than anything else.

[Schrödinger's Cat]

One contributing factor to the Muslim terrorist organizations is the exploitation of Middle Eastern oil for American corporations. Iraq is a great example of us shitting on a country and then privatizing the supply to be sold on the market. What's even richer is that this gas doesn't go towards US citizens: it's sold all around the world.

[pusher robot]

One contributing factor to the Muslim terrorist organizations is the exploitation of Middle Eastern oil for American corporations. Iraq is a great example of us shitting on a country and then privatizing the supply to be sold on the market. What's even richer is that this gas doesn't go towards US citizens: it's sold all around the world.

Wait, what? Are you saying that American oil companies are selling oil from Iraq? Do you have any evidence of this?

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

No. War and terrorism are much older than capitalism.

Capitalism may be the no.1 cause for war and terrorism today. But it certainly isnt the only reason, nor is it a root for war and terrorism in general.

This.

[Dean]

Competition is the cause for those problems. Capitalism is a method by which we define social organization as competitive. It didn't cause such problems, but it clearly perpetuates them.

[RGacky3]

Competition is the cause for those problems. Capitalism is a method by which we define social organization as competitive. It didn't cause such problems, but it clearly perpetuates them.

Not just competition perse, but power structures and resource control, these things have been around since the first governments and economic systems. Capitalist is just hte modern manifestation of power and control.

[mikelepore]

Worldwide economic competition, which involves mainly the need to acquire control of three specific things, markets for goods, sources of raw materials, and trade routes, is the main cause of war. Just as corporations are competing business units, countries are also competing business units. While corporations do battle with each other by means of advertising, lawsuits, acquisitions, etc., countries do it with war.

[Dean]

Not just competition perse, but power structures and resource control, these things have been around since the first governments and economic systems.

Power structures and resource control are exclusory organizations, and as such rely on competition.

[Comrade B]

No. War and terrorism are much older than capitalism.

Capitalism may be the no.1 cause for war and terrorism today. But it certainly isnt the only reason, nor is it a root for war and terrorism in general.
agreed

[Qwerty Dvorak]

Capitalism is not the root cause of war or terrorism. It is a relatively minor factor in each of those things. Nationalism and religion remain the main causes of all the major wars and most terrorism today and in the past. Even wars which are due to economic imperialism are not exclusively caused by capitalism; you don't find major strife over resources within capitalist countries. These conflicts are more due to the nature of the nation-state than anything else.

[IcarusAngel]

Nationalism is only a few hundred years old, and began after the birth of the nation state. So it couldn't have been one of the root causes of war in all of history.

[Qwerty Dvorak]

Nationalism is only a few hundred years old, and began after the birth of the nation state. So it couldn't have been one of the root causes of war in all of history.
It wasn't the root cause of all wars, no. But different wars have different causes, I don't think ever war in history started for the same reasons. Nationalism has been a root cause of many wars and terrorist campaigns.

[Bud Struggle]

Nationalism is only a few hundred years old, and began after the birth of the nation state. So it couldn't have been one of the root causes of war in all of history.

Actually, that would be nationalism in it's fullest spectrum--from tribalism on up. The Saxons vrs the Britons, the Algonquins vrs the Iroquois, etc. Nationalism was just a fuller expression of what had been going on all through history.

[MarxSchmarx]

Of course much hinges on your definition of "terrorism". I think it was Arundathi Roy (sp.?) who said something like thousands of Indian farmers commit suicide because they can't compete with subsidized imports imposed by the global north. Not just in India, but think of all the people who kill themselves because of the stresses of savage capitalism, of the preventable workplace deaths, of entire communities made unlivable by pollution, union organizers being "disappeared" in the third world, etc... Why isn't all this considered terrorism?

And if you look at the major conflicts of the 21st century in terms of lives claimed, they HAVE indeed been over resources like oil and diamonds. Nationalism has often sometimes served as a convenient cover (as in the Congo or Iraq), but what fuels these wars is, and continues to be, the promise of plunder.


Nationalism and religion remain the main causes of all the major wars and most terrorism today and in the past.I think the appeal of nationalism and religion is what make them credible agents of war and terrorism. And why are nationalism and religion appealing? I posit it's because they provide consolation to people who are alienated - alienated from their work, from their communities. They are a labor commodity that can be sold on the market, and they have no intrinsic worth. Nationalism and religion both offer them a sense of intrinsic value that can't be found anywhere else in their lives. The elites have no compunction fanning the flames, in no small part because they realize nationalism and religion are a potent way to get others to do their bidding for them without threatening the status quo. Yes they have been playing this game since antiquity and before capitalism. But that's because capitalism, like every class society, has its ruling class and the ruling class finds religion and nationalism quite useful. Of course there were wars before capitalism, but wars and terrorism continue because of capitalism and in particular because of class stratification.

[RGacky3]

Historically, religion and Nationalism have always been used as a rallying point for the government to give the people. I think very few wars were actually based on that.

Leaders are not dumb, they don't (for the most part) waste tons of reasorces, lives, political leverage, risk their own power, for something thats not going to bring back tangible results, they arn't giong to waste all that for pride, almost always there is a tangible, economic motive underneath it, thats been true throughout history. Back when kings would go to war, capture slaves, extract tribute, open markets for their own traders and farmers. To the middle ages where land was a big deal, and power over lords and gaining tribute from the land ment sometimes taking it from other kings or lords. Then when Capitalism came around it was all about controling markets and resources, but in this case its the government and Capitalist big shots working together, both directly and indirectly.

National governments arn't a bunch of middle schoolers fighting over what so and so called his mother, which is pretty much the same maturity level you'd need to fight over nationalism. Tanglible resources and Capital are at stake.

[Bud Struggle]

Actually, this may be a fundamental difference between the way Capitalists and Communists look at history. The Cold War as I see it was the only war fought because of economic principals. (Vietnam, Korea--we just spin off of that war.)

In WWII Germany and Japan really believed they deserved to be the masters of the world, because the were SUPERIOR, not because they wanted more money.

Money is important but the ultimate goal is always POWER.

[danyboy27]

Actually, this may be a fundamental difference between the way Capitalists and Communists look at history. The Cold War as I see it was the only war fought because of economic principals. (Vietnam, Korea--we just spin off of that war.)

In WWII Germany and Japan really believed they deserved to be the masters of the world, because the were SUPERIOR, not because they wanted more money.

Money is important but the ultimate goal is always POWER.

agreed. power is something that kinda fuck up everything in that world.

[MarxSchmarx]

In WWII Germany and Japan really believed they deserved to be the masters of the world, because the were SUPERIOR, not because they wanted more money.


I'll concede this could very well be true for Germany, with some important caveats. For instance, Nazi ambitions eastward were sold as securing "living space" to keep Germany from suffering the economic consequences of over-population and diminishing agricultural utility.

With Japan, however, I think the economic motives are quite apparent. If you looked at what got the Japanese invading, it was often to secure resource-rich places like Indonesian oil and rubber and Manchurian mines. Indeed, it wasn't until the Americans imposed an oil embargo that the Japanese figured they had to resort to war to deal with their uppity neighbor across the sea. The Japanese in fact were quite open about the need for an empire to sustain their national interests. And of course, if they were hell bent on being the ruler of the world, why would they form an alliance with white supremacists??

[BurnTheOliveTree]

Capitalism cannot be the ultimate cause of war and terrorism, because war and terrorism are older than it.

I think the vast majority of war can be explained in terms of economic incentive, however. Terrorism is a different beast - but again, economics ain't far away, it's just mixed in with other "surface" factors, like religion and nationalism.

-Alex

[Bud Struggle]

With Japan, however, I think the economic motives are quite apparent. If you looked at what got the Japanese invading, it was often to secure resource-rich places like Indonesian oil and rubber and Manchurian mines. Indeed, it wasn't until the Americans imposed an oil embargo that the Japanese figured they had to resort to war to deal with their uppity neighbor across the sea. The Japanese in fact were quite open about the need for an empire to sustain their national interests. And of course, if they were hell bent on being the ruler of the world, why would they form an alliance with white supremacists??

But they wanted all of the rubber and the oil because of nationalist ambitions. Money is only a route to power.

[redSHARP]

i might have to agree with TomK with this one. religion and nationalism plays a part. however, capitalism plays a role in the long run.

[RGacky3]

Money is important but the ultimate goal is always POWER.

Yes, and in todays world, whats the biggest source of power ... yup, Cold Cash.

But your right, Power is whats behind Capitalism.


Capitalism cannot be the ultimate cause of war and terrorism, because war and terrorism are older than it.

Before Capitalism it was feaudalism, before that it was tribute and slaves, and so on. All of these have 1 thing in common, gaining power and exploitation.

[Schrödinger's Cat]

All proceeding economic models also believed property rights were inherent. Feudalism and slavery are absolute property rights: if I own the state of Massachusetts, and you're living on my land, why can't I make you do what I want? This can be applied to the real world for strong pro-capitalists. If a child falls onto my property, he's in my little micro-state and I can kill him regardless of the reason.

Capitalists counter that it would be illegitimate to own that much land, but billionaires could hypothetically buy a huge chunk of it. It all depends on what the state recognized as a legitimate way to acquire property - and alas you discover that property rights aren't natural, that they're social constructs.:)

[MarxSchmarx]

But they wanted all of the rubber and the oil because of nationalist ambitions. Money is only a route to power.Yes, precisely.So is war. If people already felt empowered, there would be little need for war. Deprived of resources, they don't have power, and moreover run the risk of being entirely powerless and at the mercy of others, so they resort to war to gain money that let's them have power.

Money and wars are routes to empowerment under capitalism. In communism, people will feel sufficiently empowered that they can eschew the need for endless accumulation and the use of force.

[TheDifferenceEngine]

No.

The root cause of terrorism and war is and always has been all through history: nationalism and religion. Economics is and always has been a minor factor.

Aww, you were my Favourite Cappie as well, now I see you're as sadly deluded as most American conservatives.

It's cos they hate our freedumbs!

[Bud Struggle]

Yes, precisely.So is war. If people already felt empowered, there would be little need for war. Excellent insight.


Money and wars are routes to empowerment under capitalism. In communism, people will feel sufficiently empowered that they can eschew the need for endless accumulation and the use of force. Propaganda here--but your point above is well noted.

[Bud Struggle]

Aww, you were my Favourite Cappie as well, now I see you're as sadly deluded as most American conservatives.

It's cos they hate our freedumbs!

Read MarxSchnarx insight above.

[IcarusAngel]

TomK needs to read up on some international relations, another problem he has in addition to his political science deficit.

And here I thought conservatives and capitalists were supposed to know how the world and and history "works." :laugh:

[Bud Struggle]

TomK needs to read up on some international relations, another problem he has in addition to his political science deficit.

And here I thought conservatives and capitalists were supposed to know how the world and and history "works." :laugh:

IA. I see you are annotating my life. Good, keep taking notes...you can be my biographer after the Revolution. :)

[rocker935]

I think greed is the sole reason for war and terrorism. And capitalism is a system in which greed is encouraged.