Nepotism uncovered in ant colonies - For Mazdak

[Anonymous]

Nepotism uncovered in ant colonies


"LONDON (Reuters) -- Not all ants live up to their image as egalitarian hard workers -- some are even guilty of nepotism, Finnish researchers said on Wednesday."

"Instead of putting the best interests of the colony ahead of their own, scientists at the University of Helsinki have discovered an ant species that ruthlessly favors its own relations in colonies descended from multiple queen ants."


More (http://edition.cnn.com/2003/TECH/science/02/27/science.ants.reut/index.html)

[Old Friend]

Interesting. Perhaps ants are more intelligent than I originally gave them credit for being. I hardly think this supports your claim that ants have the ability to reason, Mazdak. Hee hee!

[Blibblob]

From a scientific point of view, "reasoning" is nothing more than large electronic waves moving through your brain. Ants' brains are far too small to withstand the voltage required to "reason".

[RedPirate]

Those smart 'lil suckers. Go ants.

[morkyboy]

So, even with the animals communism doesn't work! Interesting!

[thursday night]

Socialism is working quite well in Cuba. :)

[morkyboy]

It is only working for the leaders. The people are bieng suppressed and all their personal freedoms are eliminated.

[thursday night]

I’ve posted the following in a debate regarding the Cuban situation with a staunch right-winger (Liberty Lover) such as yourself, so if you don’t mind I will reply with the same post as it totally covers the lies you spew forth.

“As a person who has traveled to Cuba and has spent countless hours studying the complex situation there perhaps I can shed a little intellectual light on the subject. (God knows if I’ll get a reply, people tend to be afraid of big words!)

“Free from tyranny, free from oppresion”

What tyranny? Other than the extreme right-wing exiles in Miami, who are all it is worth mentioning upper-class peoples who had their private property taken away, no Cuban people will tell you there is tyranny. I have talked to Cuba people from all walks of life there and the basic fact is that they simply live their lives happily; enjoying the many social benefits provided to them by the state and support the socialist system. Please tell me, Liberty Lover, why if the socialist regime is so cruel and tyrannical has Fidel not been overthrown many years ago? They have survived full scale invasions, coup attempts, bandit marauders in the wilds, terrorist attacks, assassination attempts, a long and terrible economic embargo, and an endless barrage of anti-socialist propaganda all stemming from the same source: the Miami exiles and the United States of America. It takes a socialist island with eleven million people behind Fidelito to stand against the imperialist aggressors.

And also, with America’s track record with installing ‘democratic’ regimes across the globe, do you realling think the Cuban people would be better off with another American-flag waving tin-pot dictator?

“free from poverty”

I’m afraid that there is more to this subject than meets the eye. First of all, the reason that living conditions are not on par with First World nations is because Cuba is not a First World nation. Cuba remains a Third World nation and in Third World countries do not have the same living standards as First World nations. Why is Cuba still a Third World country? In part because of the embargo against it, in part because of the loss of economic aid from the Soviet Union and in part because of mistakes by governmental officials in planning the economy during the sixties. Nevertheless, for a Third World country I can tell you that the Cuban people live quite well. Not having to mention the fantastic social services free and universal to them all, everybody lives in a decent home and has food to it. While I was walking down the non-tourist shopping districts in Havana I stopped in at a few stores in which Cubans were shopping. What was being sold? Classic American propaganda pictures of starving, rag wearing workers in long food lines? No! People were browsing through clothes and there were even large Sony boom boxes for sale. It reminded me of home in many ways! So, where is the terrible poverty?

Let’s compare the average Cuban to the average Haitian or Dominican, or any average person in Central America. There are no children rummaging through garbage dumps, starving and looking for scraps in Cuba. And furthermore the income gap is not nearly as huge as it is in other neighboring Third World nations. Back to the comparison.

Cuban life expectancy at birth:
female: 79.15 years (2002 est.)
male: 74.2 years

Haitian life expectancy at birth:
female: 51.29 years (2002 est.)
male: 47.88 years

Cuban HIV rate:
0.03% (1999 est.)

Haitian HIV rate:
5.17% (1999 est.)

Dominican Republic HIV rate:
2.8% (1999 est.)

Cuban infant mortality rate:
7.27 deaths/1,000 live births (2002 est.)

Haitian infant mortality rate:
93.35 deaths/1,000 live births (2002 est.)

Dominican Republic infant mortality rate:
33.41 deaths/1,000 live births (2002 est.)

So as you can see, Cuba by far gives its citizens much higher living standards than other Third World countries. I have seen it for myself and the facts are on the side of the Republic of Cuba.

“free from laws that oulaw speech.”

I walked down the street with people, right passed police and military officials, and they gave me their opinion of the state of things. Many were proud and spoke very highly of socialism, and many said that life was sometimes quite hard. If there was no free speech, would people be allowed to say that life was hard?

Well Liberty Lover, you have successfully completely not replied to anything I posted. You simply listed a few websites put together by anti-socialist, extreme right-wing Miami exiles. Yes, I am sure you are quite fond of these fascists and terrorists. Allow me to list a few of the terrorist atrocities backed by the CIA and committed by these bourgeoisie exiles.

October 15, 1994:
A group of armed terrorists coming from the United States landed on the causeway to "Cayo Santa María" near Caibarién, Villa Clara, and murdered comrade Arcelio Rodríguez García.

July 12, 1995:
Three terrorists were arrested in the United States as they were preparing to sneak into Cuba using an act of provocation just off the Cuban coast as cover. Despite confiscation of their weapons and explosives, U.S. authorities released them.

February 24, 1996:
"Brothers to the Rescue" launched a new foray. Three light planes violated Cuban airspace over the heart of Havana and two of them were shot down. In the 20 months prior to this incident there had been at least 25 other violations of Cuban airspace.

August 11, 1997:
The Miami press published a statement from the Cuban American National Foundation (CANF) giving unconditional support to the terrorist bomb attacks against civilian and tourist targets in Cuba. The chairman of this organization claimed: "We do not think of these as terrorist actions" and went on to say that any action against Cuba was legitimate.

November 17, 2000:
A group of terrorists headed by Posada Carriles was arrested in Panama. They had entered Panama with false documents to make an attempt on the life of President Fidel Castro during the X Ibero American Summit of Heads of State and Government. Their weapons, explosives and a sketch of Castro's route and public meetings were seized from them. The Cuban American National Foundation is paying for the team of lawyers defending the terrorists.
Here are clear examples of your fine Miami exiles that flee from Cuba after loosing their precious private property and then spread lies and exaggerations about socialism. Furthermore, I know well about the ‘political prisoners’ that are currently locked up in Cuban prisons where they belong. These near-fascists, terrorists and counterrevolutionaries deserve to be in prison; what do you expect to happen, the state just to allow terrorist violations and an unpopular war against socialism? I fully support the imprisonment of violent anti-socialist counterrevolutionaries in Cuba.

Allow me to quote a part of William Blum’s (who, it should be noted, is unlike myself not a Marxist-Leninist) essay entitled ‘The United States, Cuba, and this thing called democracy’ which can be found here.

’During the period of the Cuban revolution, 1959 to
the present, Latin America has witnessed a terrible parade of
human rights violations -- systematic, routine torture;
legions of "disappeared" people; government-supported death squads
picking off selected individuals; massacres en masse of
peasants, students and other groups, shot down in cold blood;
journalists critical of the government frequently assassinated. The
worst perpetrators of these acts during all or part of this
period have been the governments and associated paramilitary squads
of El Salvador, Guatemala, Brazil, Argentina, Chile, Colombia,
Peru, Mexico, Uruguay, Haiti and Honduras.
Not even Cuba's worst enemies have charged the Castro
government with any of these violations, and if one further
considers education and health care -- both of which are
guaranteed by the United Nations' "Universal Declaration
of Human Rights" and the "European Convention for the Protection
of Human Rights and Fundamental Freedoms" -- areas in which Cuba
has consistently ranked at or near the top in Latin America,
then it would appear that during the near-40 years of its
revolution, Cuba has enjoyed one of the very best human-rights
records in all of Latin America.
If, despite this record, the United States can insist
that Cuba is the only "non-democracy" in the Western Hemisphere,
we are left with the inescapable conclusion that this thing
called "democracy", as seen from the White House, may have
little or nothing to do with many of our most cherished human rights.
Indeed, numerous pronouncements emanating from Washington
officialdom over the years make plain that "democracy", at
best, or at most, is equated solely with elections and
civil liberties. Not even jobs, food and shelter are part of the
equation.’

Maybe I should explain how people’s democracy works in Cuba. First of all yes, there is only one-party (Communist Party of Cuba). However, it is by law not allowed to field candidates for elections. Members of local people’s councils are popularly elected from the people by the people, and members of the National Assembly of People’s Power are nominated by mass people’s organizations (such as woman’s organizations, trade unions, student groups, youth clubs etc.) and then elected by the people. Some thirty-five to forty percent of the members of the National Assembly are not members of the Party. If you are still not convinced, I can get the accurate statistics for just who makes up the National Assembly.

When I was in Cuba I saw the posters all around Havana and elsewhere asking citizens to come to nomination meetings and nominate candidates for the ballots. I saw and talked to people about democracy in action.”

I think that should cover all your concerns, morky.

[thursday night]

Oh, my apologizes the code didn’t work, that essay by Mr. Blum can be found at this link: http://members.aol.com/bblum6/American_hol...caust.htm[/url]

[Xvall]

So, even with the animals communism doesn't work! Interesting!

This silly little statement of yours has no merit. This report about ants doesn't imply that 'Communism doesn't work!' in the animal kingdom. It simply means that not all animals live communally. I thought this was apparent. Communism seems to work just fine for the other 99% of ants that are not nepotists. Please; explain how this proves that 'communism' doesn't work in the animal kingdom? How many animals have adopted the free market system?

It is only working for the leaders.

There are many people living in Cuba who believe that their economic system works quite well for the population. Just because you think socialism and communism are evil, corrupt, economic systems doesn't mean that the whole world shares your views. I'm sure there are tons of people that miss old Flugencio, right? Maybe not.

The people are bieng suppressed and all their personal freedoms are eliminated.

How so? Who is the people? I recall that at some point recently, at least seven million cuban citizens rallied to support Fidel Castro and the current Cuban regime. That is about 64% of the population, Morky. Apparently these people do not believe that their freedoms have been eliminated. I can tell you this about Cuba. Everyone has a home, everyone eats, and nearly everyone can read. Take a look at Cuba before Castro assumed power. I believe that this is a great improvement. If you want to believe that Cuba is an evil totalitarian dictatorship; go ahead. But seeing as you don't live in Cuba, you've never been to Cuba, and you probably never will; I doubt anyone will take what you say seriously.

[thursday night]

Comrade Dracoli is correct. Just read my post, that’s right.

[Mazdak]

There are also species of ants who live solitary lives. This proves nothing other than how one species of ant is far more "ruthless" then others. It also proves the weakenss of the family unit. (IE, the ants favor their own larvae over the larvae of other ants in the colony.)

Also, my argument was termites. Termites are far more socially developed than ants. despite their primitive body plan.

[RedPirate]

Ants reasoning and thinking... Its so awesome... We learn so many new things...

[morkyboy]

All the people that were demonstrating did so out fear, just like the people in Iraq and North-Corea do.

[thursday night]

Firstly, you didn't even reply to my post. Secondly, there is no proof to your inane comment. I have been to Cuba, studied Cuba and am quite intellectually advanced, seemingly more so than you. Thus, I can tell you that what you said was a complete fallacy.

[Pete]

A Strawman Fallacy to be exact.

Although I have never been to Cuba, I plan to study there in 2 years or so. I have read alot aobut Cuba, talked to Larissa, and have argued against a classmate who laughed when I cited Thursday's evidence. People in Cuba protest against Castro, it is their right and very few people do it. The amount of Americans that protest against their government is much higher MUCH HIGHER then the amount of Cubans who dislike Cuba. The counts in America and in the Hundreds of Thousands per city AGAINST where as their are Hundreds for war.

But what can I expect, as Thursday said, the evidence is ignored because you do not want to see the light.

[CheViveToday]

So DC, are you saying the human race is no better than ants? Maybe you can't do something if an ant can't do it, but take my word for it....I'm smarter than any damn ant.

P.S.-I'm much more handsome than any ant too! :)

[Xvall]

All the people that were demonstrating did so out fear, just like the people in Iraq and North-Corea do.

First of all, this is nothing but speculation. I can also claim that everyone who is a member of the Republican party is there only because they are afraid that George Bush will assassinate them if they do not join. Such a statement has little, if any, merit. They did not have to hold a rally in support of their leader. I am sure that there are some people who are not fond of Fidel Castro that did not attend the rally. I doubt that the secret police busted into their houses in the middle of the night and shot them. I am currently reading a book written by a man who went to Cuba. The man is not a socialist or a communist; not even an anarchist. Nor is his book pro-cuban. In the begining of the book, he talks about his various conversations with the Cuban people. At one point, he talks about a man he encountered who ate lunch with him. The man hated the society he lived in, and spoke out loud to him in front of everyone else about why he hated it. He didn't whisper it in the man's ear; they didn't go to a secret rendevous point. He said it out loud; and no one did anything to him. There are some people in Cuba that do not like some things Cuba. They are able to talk about it, no one stops them.

Secondly the people in Iraq and North-Korea do not always hold rallies for their leaders out of fear. There are many individuals in Iraq that have actually adopted a cult-like devotion to their leader; and actually have a sense of love towards him, not fear.

[Xvall]

Quote: from CheViveToday on 10:16 pm on Mar. 2, 2003
So DC, are you saying the human race is no better than ants? Maybe you can't do something if an ant can't do it, but take my word for it....I'm smarter than any damn ant.

P.S.-I'm much more handsome than any ant too! :)


Do not bash ants.

I love ants.

[CheViveToday]

Feel free to come over to my house and scrape the objects of your affection off the bottom of my shoes. ;)

[Totalitarian]

Socialism works best within kinship-groups (tribes).

Tribal/racial unity is a prerequsite for the more advanced stage of species unity.

[Pete]

I do not agree with that racial unity statement. It would seem from my expierence that unity among like minded people works alot better then unity along racial lines.

[Mazdak]

CheViveToday, howabout i have you plastered to the road or have your mother scrape you off the bottom of a truck?

[Anonymous]

I like spiders.

[guerrillaradio]

Quote: from thursday night on 4:46 pm on Mar. 2, 2003
I’ve posted the following in a debate regarding the Cuban situation with a staunch right-winger (Liberty Lover) such as yourself, so if you don’t mind I will reply with the same post as it totally covers the lies you spew forth.

“As a person who has traveled to Cuba and has spent countless hours studying the complex situation there perhaps I can shed a little intellectual light on the subject. (God knows if I’ll get a reply, people tend to be afraid of big words!)

“Free from tyranny, free from oppresion”

What tyranny? Other than the extreme right-wing exiles in Miami, who are all it is worth mentioning upper-class peoples who had their private property taken away, no Cuban people will tell you there is tyranny. I have talked to Cuba people from all walks of life there and the basic fact is that they simply live their lives happily; enjoying the many social benefits provided to them by the state and support the socialist system. Please tell me, Liberty Lover, why if the socialist regime is so cruel and tyrannical has Fidel not been overthrown many years ago? They have survived full scale invasions, coup attempts, bandit marauders in the wilds, terrorist attacks, assassination attempts, a long and terrible economic embargo, and an endless barrage of anti-socialist propaganda all stemming from the same source: the Miami exiles and the United States of America. It takes a socialist island with eleven million people behind Fidelito to stand against the imperialist aggressors.

And also, with America’s track record with installing ‘democratic’ regimes across the globe, do you realling think the Cuban people would be better off with another American-flag waving tin-pot dictator?

“free from poverty”

I’m afraid that there is more to this subject than meets the eye. First of all, the reason that living conditions are not on par with First World nations is because Cuba is not a First World nation. Cuba remains a Third World nation and in Third World countries do not have the same living standards as First World nations. Why is Cuba still a Third World country? In part because of the embargo against it, in part because of the loss of economic aid from the Soviet Union and in part because of mistakes by governmental officials in planning the economy during the sixties. Nevertheless, for a Third World country I can tell you that the Cuban people live quite well. Not having to mention the fantastic social services free and universal to them all, everybody lives in a decent home and has food to it. While I was walking down the non-tourist shopping districts in Havana I stopped in at a few stores in which Cubans were shopping. What was being sold? Classic American propaganda pictures of starving, rag wearing workers in long food lines? No! People were browsing through clothes and there were even large Sony boom boxes for sale. It reminded me of home in many ways! So, where is the terrible poverty?

Let’s compare the average Cuban to the average Haitian or Dominican, or any average person in Central America. There are no children rummaging through garbage dumps, starving and looking for scraps in Cuba. And furthermore the income gap is not nearly as huge as it is in other neighboring Third World nations. Back to the comparison.

Cuban life expectancy at birth:
female: 79.15 years (2002 est.)
male: 74.2 years

Haitian life expectancy at birth:
female: 51.29 years (2002 est.)
male: 47.88 years

Cuban HIV rate:
0.03% (1999 est.)

Haitian HIV rate:
5.17% (1999 est.)

Dominican Republic HIV rate:
2.8% (1999 est.)

Cuban infant mortality rate:
7.27 deaths/1,000 live births (2002 est.)

Haitian infant mortality rate:
93.35 deaths/1,000 live births (2002 est.)

Dominican Republic infant mortality rate:
33.41 deaths/1,000 live births (2002 est.)

So as you can see, Cuba by far gives its citizens much higher living standards than other Third World countries. I have seen it for myself and the facts are on the side of the Republic of Cuba.

“free from laws that oulaw speech.”

I walked down the street with people, right passed police and military officials, and they gave me their opinion of the state of things. Many were proud and spoke very highly of socialism, and many said that life was sometimes quite hard. If there was no free speech, would people be allowed to say that life was hard?

Well Liberty Lover, you have successfully completely not replied to anything I posted. You simply listed a few websites put together by anti-socialist, extreme right-wing Miami exiles. Yes, I am sure you are quite fond of these fascists and terrorists. Allow me to list a few of the terrorist atrocities backed by the CIA and committed by these bourgeoisie exiles.

October 15, 1994:
A group of armed terrorists coming from the United States landed on the causeway to "Cayo Santa María" near Caibarién, Villa Clara, and murdered comrade Arcelio Rodríguez García.

July 12, 1995:
Three terrorists were arrested in the United States as they were preparing to sneak into Cuba using an act of provocation just off the Cuban coast as cover. Despite confiscation of their weapons and explosives, U.S. authorities released them.

February 24, 1996:
"Brothers to the Rescue" launched a new foray. Three light planes violated Cuban airspace over the heart of Havana and two of them were shot down. In the 20 months prior to this incident there had been at least 25 other violations of Cuban airspace.

August 11, 1997:
The Miami press published a statement from the Cuban American National Foundation (CANF) giving unconditional support to the terrorist bomb attacks against civilian and tourist targets in Cuba. The chairman of this organization claimed: "We do not think of these as terrorist actions" and went on to say that any action against Cuba was legitimate.

November 17, 2000:
A group of terrorists headed by Posada Carriles was arrested in Panama. They had entered Panama with false documents to make an attempt on the life of President Fidel Castro during the X Ibero American Summit of Heads of State and Government. Their weapons, explosives and a sketch of Castro's route and public meetings were seized from them. The Cuban American National Foundation is paying for the team of lawyers defending the terrorists.
Here are clear examples of your fine Miami exiles that flee from Cuba after loosing their precious private property and then spread lies and exaggerations about socialism. Furthermore, I know well about the ‘political prisoners’ that are currently locked up in Cuban prisons where they belong. These near-fascists, terrorists and counterrevolutionaries deserve to be in prison; what do you expect to happen, the state just to allow terrorist violations and an unpopular war against socialism? I fully support the imprisonment of violent anti-socialist counterrevolutionaries in Cuba.

Allow me to quote a part of William Blum’s (who, it should be noted, is unlike myself not a Marxist-Leninist) essay entitled ‘The United States, Cuba, and this thing called democracy’ which can be found here.

’During the period of the Cuban revolution, 1959 to
the present, Latin America has witnessed a terrible parade of
human rights violations -- systematic, routine torture;
legions of "disappeared" people; government-supported death squads
picking off selected individuals; massacres en masse of
peasants, students and other groups, shot down in cold blood;
journalists critical of the government frequently assassinated. The
worst perpetrators of these acts during all or part of this
period have been the governments and associated paramilitary squads
of El Salvador, Guatemala, Brazil, Argentina, Chile, Colombia,
Peru, Mexico, Uruguay, Haiti and Honduras.
Not even Cuba's worst enemies have charged the Castro
government with any of these violations, and if one further
considers education and health care -- both of which are
guaranteed by the United Nations' "Universal Declaration
of Human Rights" and the "European Convention for the Protection
of Human Rights and Fundamental Freedoms" -- areas in which Cuba
has consistently ranked at or near the top in Latin America,
then it would appear that during the near-40 years of its
revolution, Cuba has enjoyed one of the very best human-rights
records in all of Latin America.
If, despite this record, the United States can insist
that Cuba is the only "non-democracy" in the Western Hemisphere,
we are left with the inescapable conclusion that this thing
called "democracy", as seen from the White House, may have
little or nothing to do with many of our most cherished human rights.
Indeed, numerous pronouncements emanating from Washington
officialdom over the years make plain that "democracy", at
best, or at most, is equated solely with elections and
civil liberties. Not even jobs, food and shelter are part of the
equation.’

Maybe I should explain how people’s democracy works in Cuba. First of all yes, there is only one-party (Communist Party of Cuba). However, it is by law not allowed to field candidates for elections. Members of local people’s councils are popularly elected from the people by the people, and members of the National Assembly of People’s Power are nominated by mass people’s organizations (such as woman’s organizations, trade unions, student groups, youth clubs etc.) and then elected by the people. Some thirty-five to forty percent of the members of the National Assembly are not members of the Party. If you are still not convinced, I can get the accurate statistics for just who makes up the National Assembly.

When I was in Cuba I saw the posters all around Havana and elsewhere asking citizens to come to nomination meetings and nominate candidates for the ballots. I saw and talked to people about democracy in action.”

I think that should cover all your concerns, morky.


Firstly, I'd like to praise your debating skills. It's so refreshing to see authoritarians capable of debating in a lucid and calm manner. :)

Secondly, I was wondering whether you had any means of comparing those figures with what they were before the Revolution. I'd like to see how much Cuba has improved under Castro before making my mind up.

[thursday night]

Thanks for the compliment. It is much appreciated. :)

As for facts and figures of Cuba before the revolution they are unfortunately very difficult to find, in fact near impossible. I can tell you through my extensive research that the regime of Batista was a terribly cruel one (in fact Batista was more of a gangster/mafia grandfather than a President) almost on par with those of Papa Doc and America’s hero and protégée, Pinnochet. Prostitution, illiteracy, pathetic medical care and a huge income gap were all rampant but within years of socialism these were all virtually eliminated (old casinos and gambling halls were turned into cheap tenements!).

Hope this helps and I will continue my search for facts and figures.

[Totalitarian]

Quote: from CrazyPete on 2:51 pm on Mar. 3, 2003
I do not agree with that racial unity statement. It would seem from my expierence that unity among like minded people works alot better then unity along racial lines.


Perhaps. But both are important in my opinion, since a race is an extended family which inbreeds to a certain extent. It's good to have amicable relations with family as well as friends!

[Pete]

The society you live in should be your family, not those who share common ancestry!