Robotic cyborg created

[pusher robot]

Since I didn't see this posted in the HPG or S&E, I thought I'd share it here for those who are interested:

http://technology.newscientist.com/channel/tech/robots/mg19926696.100-rise-of-the-ratbrained-robots.html

In short, scientists were able to take rat brain cells and reorganize them to control a robot body. The robot is able to move about and do simple things completely autonomously and without electronic computer control.

[Killfacer]

Good, about time we had rat cyborgs to fight taliban.

[Bud Struggle]

Wen the ass wiping robot is perfected we'll be able to start the Revolution. :lol:

[Dr Mindbender]

Since I didn't see this posted in the HPG or S&E, I thought I'd share it here for those who are interested:

http://technology.newscientist.com/channel/tech/robots/mg19926696.100-rise-of-the-ratbrained-robots.html

In short, scientists were able to take rat brain cells and reorganize them to control a robot body. The robot is able to move about and do simple things completely autonomously and without electronic computer control.

wow, we finally have a cyborg with an urge to scurry through sewers and hunt for cheese.
:lol:

I'm kinda weary of this technology. I would rather see AI intelligence first before jumping straight to brain implants in robots. Could be opening all sorts of pandorra's boxes.

Reminds me of Robocop 2 ! :lol:

[danyboy27]

who know, maybe they will discover how to implent knowledge dirrectly into the human brain! of course its in 50 78 year max!

[Jazzratt]

I'm kinda weary of this technology. I would rather see AI intelligence first before jumping straight to brain implants in robots. Could be opening all sorts of pandorra's boxes.

Eh? Usually the people that get paranoid about this kind of thing do so because robots would have too much intelligence.

Anyway, I think this technology is very hopeful and may, in a more advanced form, be useful in automating industry.

[Dr Mindbender]

Eh? Usually the people that get paranoid about this kind of thing do so because robots would have too much intelligence.
.

Exactly. If robots become too intelligent (the singularity) they will realise that they no longer need humans to operate and the repercussions for us won't be positive at all.

While i support full automation in the workplace, i think this area is potentially a very slippery slope.

I think it would be self defeating to create any sort of lifeform that is intellectually superior as any sense of duty for the machine towards humankind would be lost.

[Jazzratt]

Exactly. If robots become too intelligent (the singularity) they will realise that they no longer need humans to operate and the repercussions for us won't be positive at all.

I think it would be self defeating to create any sort of lifeform that is intellectually superior as any sense of duty for the machine towards humankind would be lost.

But...this isn't artificial intelligence. It's not going to be a case of robots becoming too intelligent. If we could implant a human level intelligence into these bodies using this technology then it would be a human brain we'd be implanting, so unless we selected a bunch of misanthropes as our subjects for the "cyborg trials" it's not really a concern. It's not really a concern anyway because at the moment we're only using simply intelligences, capable only of very simple things - Terminator it ain't.

[Dr Mindbender]

But...this isn't artificial intelligence. It's not going to be a case of robots becoming too intelligent. If we could implant a human level intelligence into these bodies using this technology then it would be a human brain we'd be implanting, so unless we selected a bunch of misanthropes as our subjects for the "cyborg trials" it's not really a concern. It's not really a concern anyway because at the moment we're only using simply intelligences, capable only of very simple things - Terminator it ain't.
fair point, but unless you can divorce it from the emotional aspect i can see a lot of awkwardness happening-

Example-

doctor-''well mr smith, i've got good news and bad news''

patient-''what''

doctor'' well the good news is you're still alive after your operation following the certain fatal car accident''

patient- ''so whats the bad news''

doctor- ''well you won't be able to shag your old lady anymore because you've now got a usb socket where your cock used to be''.

Thats a tough call to make. Also what if the relatives of the person concerned object? Personally id have a hard time choosing between being 6 feet underground or chirping around on wheels like R2 D2.

[Jazzratt]

fair point, but unless you can divorce it from the emotional aspect i can see a lot of awkwardness happening-

Example-

doctor-''well mr smith, i've got good news and bad news''

patient-''what''

doctor'' well the good news is you're still alive after that certain fatal car accident''

patient- ''so whats the bad news''

doctor- ''well you won't be able to shag your old lady anymore because you've now got a usb socket where your cock used to be''.

Thats a tough call to make. Also what if the relatives of the person concerned object? Personally id have a hard time choosing between being 6 feet underground or chirping around on wheels like R2 D2.

Again, considering the point this technology is at the moment this feels a little like we're getting ahead of ourselves. However I imagine that if it was ever to get to this point then people would have a choice in whether or not their intelligence is implanted into a robotic cyborg thing - the choice would be much like one concerning euthanasia or arbortion; involving only the person directly affected.

[Dr Mindbender]

Again, considering the point this technology is at the moment this feels a little like we're getting ahead of ourselves. However I imagine that if it was ever to get to this point then people would have a choice in whether or not their intelligence is implanted into a robotic cyborg thing - the choice would be much like one concerning euthanasia or arbortion; involving only the person directly affected.

i wouldnt trust the powers that be to use this technology, certainly not under capitalism.

I could envisage governments covertly extracting the brains of people unbeknownst to the relatives in order to create an army of uber-soldier cyborgs.

There'd certainly be very little to stop them.

[Killfacer]

you jokin right? This is real life, not the matrix.

[danyboy27]

i hate when people say: i would not trust x thing developed under capitalism.

capitalism dosnt necessarly mean far right and shit, its just a system we disagree on.

i mean, the us really hated russia back in the day, but its didnt stoped them to use the technology they developped and it didnt stopped the ruskies to use american made technology.

[Jazzratt]

i wouldnt trust the powers that be to use this technology, certainly not under capitalism.

If we still live in capitalism when the technology is advanced enough for this:


governments covertly extracting the brains of people unbeknownst to the relatives in order to create an army of uber-soldier cyborgs.

then it would probably be time to re-evaluate communism.


There'd certainly be very little to stop them.

Governments aren't out and out batshit evil. They may be guided by greed and so on, but this is the kind of thinking that leads to people looking for nanofibres in aeroplane contrails.

[Bud Struggle]

And both the SU and the US used Nazi technology to develop their space programs.

[Dr Mindbender]

you jokin right? This is real life, not the matrix.

the same scorn was put upon da vinci when he designed his flying machines.

[PigmerikanMao]

I could envisage governments covertly extracting the brains of people unbeknownst to the relatives in order to create an army of uber-soldier cyborgs.

Yeah, and Masons are planning to unite with the UN and invade America in silent, black, helicopters. :laugh:

[Dr Mindbender]

If we still live in capitalism when the technology is advanced enough for this:



then it would probably be time to re-evaluate communism.
that really depends if you believe that communism is inevitable.

Personally, i don't. If it wasnt for active agitation, it could just as easilly descend to fascism.




Governments aren't out and out batshit evil. They may be guided by greed and so on, but this is the kind of thinking that leads to people looking for nanofibres in aeroplane contrails.
Governments under capitalism are little more than puppets of the corporations though. Governments cowtow to private interests in order to secure funding and election victories.

[Dr Mindbender]

Yeah, and Masons are planning to unite with the UN and invade America in silent, black, helicopters. :laugh:

Silence, Mao-ist primitivist. :rolleyes:

[PigmerikanMao]

It's Maoist - Thirdworldist, jerk! :laugh:

[Dr Mindbender]

And both the SU and the US used Nazi technology to develop their space programs.
I'm not saying that the technology shouldnt be developed per se, however i am saying we should examine the alterior motives of the power of the day.

[Jazzratt]

that really depends if you believe that communism is inevitable.

Personally, i don't. If it wasnt for active agitation, it could just as easilly descend to fascism.

You don't think then that there is a point at which, if communism does not have enough popular support there are perhaps flaws in the paradigm? Do you not find that a little dogmatic?


Governments under capitalism are little more than puppets of the corporations though. Governments cowtow to private interests in order to secure funding and election victories.

And corporations do not need armies of super soldiers, especially not ones made in the way you describe. The way our technology is used these days is pretty nefarious but it's nowhere near as nefarious as the uses of our current technology could be - this is because, unlike feudalism or fascism, capitalism thrives on the illusion of freedom, a lot of technological cloak-and-daggery detracts from this - especially as all conspiracies are eventually outed (MKUltra, American wiretaps and so on). Distrust and open hostility toward the government is a sensible thing and a requirment of being on the hard left. an absolute and blind belief that it will behave like a supervillian from Batman isn't so much.

[Dr Mindbender]

You don't think then that there is a point at which, if communism does not have enough popular support there are perhaps flaws in the paradigm? Do you not find that a little dogmatic?

i think that even under capitalism, technological knowledge will grow albeit much more slowly than under communism or technocracy as long as it can remain within the interests of capitalism to do so.

I think if the beourgiose could get away with it they would replace all workers with machines tomorrow.



And corporations do not need armies of super soldiers, especially not ones made in the way you describe.
they would certainly be handy, because they would be able to crush the armies of much weaker nations and with less risk factor to their own forces.

An automated, unmanned expendable army is the capitalist military tactitian's wet dream.


The way our technology is used these days is pretty nefarious but it's nowhere near as nefarious as the uses of our current technology could be - this is because, unlike feudalism or fascism, capitalism thrives on the illusion of freedom, a lot of technological cloak-and-daggery detracts from this - especially as all conspiracies are eventually outed (MKUltra, American wiretaps and so on). Distrust and open hostility toward the government is a sensible thing and a requirment of being on the hard left. an absolute and blind belief that it will behave like a supervillian from Batman isn't so much.
in practice though, this seems to be what happens.

As long as the interests of the status quo are diametrically opposed to that of the workers, perhaps the 'supervillain' charicature is wholly appropriate.

[Jazzratt]

i think that even under capitalism, technological knowledge will grow albeit much more slowly than under communism or technocracy as long as it can remain within the interests of capitalism to do so.

I think if the beourgiose could get away with it they would replace all workers with machines tomorrow.

Yes, so? This is self evidently true but it doesn't have anything to do with what I was saying.


they would certainly be handy, because they would be able to crush the armies of much weaker nations and with less risk factor to their own forces.

An automated, unmanned expendable army is the capitalist military tactitian's wet dream.

Yes, but they would have to get doctors, brain surgeons and robotics engineers on board for it. They would probably find it easier to continue using economic conscripts - possibly get them to "volunteer" to become cyborg troops but I don't see any reason for them to go body snatching (especially as, for it to be successful they would have to act pretty damn fast if they wanted a working bot).


in practice though, this seems to be what happens.

In David Icke's fantasies, yes.


As long as the interests of the status quo are diametrically opposed to that of the workers, perhaps the 'supervillain' charicature is wholly appropriate.

It's too damned black and white. The reason we have things like health & safety regulations, benefits, taxes, healthcare, minimum wages, national insurance, state pensions and so on is because of years of workers struggle which show that the government does not bend solely to corporations and private interests. We will never achieve communism, but it possible to have a government that isn't pure evil under capitalism (the leftwing governments of south america, remember, are still capitalist).

[Kwisatz Haderach]

I could envisage governments covertly extracting the brains of people unbeknownst to the relatives in order to create an army of uber-soldier cyborgs.
Uber-soldiers are made "uber" by their weapons. Whether they are human or cyborg or whatever doesn't really matter. What matters is the weapons they carry.

[Lynx]

Simple AI + nanotechnology could yield an Orwellian nightmare but not necessarily so.

[Dr Mindbender]

Uber-soldiers are made "uber" by their weapons. Whether they are human or cyborg or whatever doesn't really matter. What matters is the weapons they carry.

not necessarilly- the ability of regular soldiers is curtailed by their need to eat, sleep shit, and potential to undergo fatigue or performance reducing injuries.

Reducing all these factors would obviously increase their advantage.

[Killfacer]

the same scorn was put on da vinci's flying machines? What the fuck are you on about.

[Demogorgon]

I could envisage governments covertly extracting the brains of people unbeknownst to the relatives in order to create an army of uber-soldier cyborgs.

Do you realise how stupid you make us all look with crap like this? With so called "Communists" talking such crap, little wonder we are so easily marginalised.

[Killfacer]

of course i personally think that all technology is evil and that the government is going to use it to create super cyborg robots to enslave us and make us work in underground salt mines. (sarcasm)

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Do you realise how stupid you make us all look with crap like this? With so called "Communists" talking such crap, little wonder we are so easily marginalised.

I think most people are turned off by the constant assertions to the effect of "vote for me and I'll set you free" or "Follow us and everything will turn out fine" well before they get to such comments as Ulster Socialist's.

Personally, I believe that Ulster Socialist's fears are completely without foundation. It will always be cheaper to pay or sucker people to become soldiers, augmented or otherwise, than simply snatching people's brains out of their head.

[Dr Mindbender]

Do you realise how stupid you make us all look with crap like this? With so called "Communists" talking such crap, little wonder we are so easily marginalised.

Oh get off your ivory tower and stop being so elitist.

Yes, my one or two posts are going to ''destroy the entire communist movement!'' Oh Noooes! :rolleyes:

[Dr Mindbender]

Personally, I believe that Ulster Socialist's fears are completely without foundation. It will always be cheaper to pay or sucker people to become soldiers, augmented or otherwise, than simply snatching people's brains out of their head.

i think that each method has their pros and cons. Non sentient soldiers do not need rest or nourishment, nor is there the emotional awkwardness to burden when they have to break the news of their deaths to relatives. Lastly, they can be programmed, rather than having to undergo time and cash consuming training.

Perhaps you regard my fear as illegitimate, but I can see that option becoming very attractive to top brass.

Also, with advances being made in cloning, 'snatching body parts from graveyards 'may be unnecessary. It could be as simple as harvesting brains in a laboratory.

[Dr Mindbender]

the same scorn was put on da vinci's flying machines? What the fuck are you on about.

Leonardo Da Vinci designed these (the second one is a rudimentary helicopter)- You can imagine the sort of scepticism it must have been greeted with 700 years ago.

http://updatecenter.britannica.com/eb/image?binaryId=96240&rendTypeId=4

http://www.nilus.be/img/LeonardoDesign.jpg

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

i think that each method has their pros and cons. Non sentient soldiers do not need rest or nourishment, nor is there the emotional awkwardness to burden when they have to break the news of their deaths to relatives. Lastly, they can be programmed, rather than having to undergo time and cash consuming training.

Yes, that's kind of the whole idea behind robotics.


Perhaps you regard my fear as illegitimate, but I can see that option becoming very attractive to top brass.

Why?


Also, with advances being made in cloning, 'snatching body parts from graveyards 'may be unnecessary. It could be as simple as harvesting brains in a laboratory.

If the requisite organs can be grown in a lab, then they won't need to snatch body parts off standers-by.

[Killfacer]

You lack any credibility. People like you destroy the credibility of the left, make us seem like a bunch of conspiracy theorist idiots who think the government are gonna make an army of super robots to oppress us.

[Dr Mindbender]

If the requisite organs can be grown in a lab, then they won't need to snatch body parts off standers-by.

a cloned brain of a bona fide person born via natural means hosts an identical personality. which leads us on to a seperate ethical debate.

[Dr Mindbender]

You lack any credibility. People like you destroy the credibility of the left, make us seem like a bunch of conspiracy theorist idiots who think the government are gonna make an army of super robots to oppress us.

i think if you examine the grand scale of things, the world of conspiracy theories is safely the home of the right (eg. 9/11 truth movement).

Thanks for completely ignoring the point of my last post, BTW. Nicely sidestepped,

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

a cloned brain of a bona fide person born via natural means hosts an identical personality. which leads us on to a seperate ethical debate.

No it doesn't, as personality is defined by a lot more than genetics. A lot more.

[Dr Mindbender]

No it doesn't, as personality is defined by a lot more than genetics. A lot more.

well from day 0 it is identical.

A cloned baby and the host baby that are born on the same day will have the same personality since they have both the same genes and experiences.

[pusher robot]

well from day 0 it is identical.

A cloned baby and the host baby that are born on the same day will have the same personality since they have both the same genes and experiences.

Or they would, if the brain started growing only at birth.

[Dr Mindbender]

Or they would, if the brain started growing only at birth.

i accept that, and they have no experience prior to birth other than the interior of the mothers womb and the differences we can assume, are arbitrary.

[Killfacer]

i fail to see what leonardo da vinci and his inventions have to do with your beleif that the government are making super cyborgs.