Imperialist - The definition

[Invader Zim]

Many people on this forum use this word when they dont know what it means i have desided to solve this problem. To call the British, French, German, Spanish, ect government imperialistic to day is stupid. In fact it is the reverse. The British in particular gave Self determination to all its colonies and still is.

Also to call a person who hates a "terrorist organisation" an imperialist is a grose misjudgement of the word. How does hating a terrorist organisation make one a imperialist, according to the definition below.

im·pe·ri·al·ism ( P ) Pronunciation Key (m-pîr--lzm)
n.
The policy of extending a nation's authority by territorial acquisition or by the establishment of economic and political hegemony over other nations.
The system, policies, or practices of such a government.

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im·peri·al·ist adj. & n.
im·peri·al·istic adj.
im·peri·al·isti·cal·ly adv.

[Old Friend]

At least we more or less agree on this point, AK.

[Invader Zim]

yes but america does all those things....

[suffianr]

The British in particular gave Self determination to all its colonies and still is.

You're not from a Commonwealth nation, are you? Not from a Third World developing country either, right? Well, don't talk as if you really know the score, then.

I'm from Malaysia, and in 1957, the Brits practically handed us our independence on a fucking silver platter. No popular insurrections or widespread bloodshed in the name of liberation, no bloody wars against the White Man, nothing.

Our independence came to us, after WW2, not because the Brits wanted us to be independent, but because the British Empire had collapsed. Brittania had lost the will to govern far off colonies, she had her own troubles to deal with...post-war reconstruction, re-igniting the fires of industry (In Great Britian, food rationing went on from the late 30's well into 1954), dealing with the Soviet Threat...No, the British had more immediate concerns back home which were more important than dealing with the frail economy of the Malayan Peninsular (which was at the mercy of fluctuating rubber and tin prices), or the intricacies of the racial inequities of the Malays, Chinese and Indians.

Yes, the Brits gave us an education system, a judicial system, a model for governance and politics, but they also gave us segregation, a strong economic reliance on the West and a volatile start to nation-building, not to mention an elite ruling class groomed and educated by the West, and a retched fear of labour unions & industrial rights.

AK47, unless you've been on the receiving end, you have absolutely no fucking idea, mate. :)

[Invader Zim]

Ohh im sorry that Britain shitted on your country, you must be so hard done by ;) . Any way when i said about giving independance and self determination i was talking about places like Hong Kong, india ect.

[suffianr]

Then be specific, you wanker. :)

[Invader Zim]

Quote: from suffianr on 1:52 pm on Mar. 1, 2003
Then be specific, you wanker. :)

Even if Britain did give up your country because of lack of cash, then it is still anti imperialist. But i am preaching to the fallen so its pointless isnt it, this whole discussion with you?

Wanker ehh, resorting to petty insults...

(Edited by AK47 at 2:10 pm on Mar. 1, 2003)


(Edited by AK47 at 2:12 pm on Mar. 1, 2003)

[Corvus Corax]

No offence Ak mate, but i've read a few of your posts, and....
You chat a load of shite most of the time.

Perhaps it would be better if you use your own mind and not what you read from other places all the time...

[suffianr]

Even if Britain did give up your country because of lack of cash, then it is still anti imperialist.

Please elaborate, your point needs clarification...The fallen? Who, specifically, are they now?

Oh, btw, don't overrate yourself...You're not a special case...I call everybody wankers. :)

[suffianr]

Hey, hang about! HongKong had nothing to do with self-determination or independence!

They had to give it away...Contractual obligations with China. Pfffbbbttthh.

[Invader Zim]

Quote: from suffianr on 2:19 pm on Mar. 1, 2003

Even if Britain did give up your country because of lack of cash, then it is still anti imperialist.

Please elaborate, your point needs clarification...The fallen? Who, specifically, are they now?

Oh, btw, don't overrate yourself...You're not a special case...I call everybody wankers. :)

Well as you see above the definition of imperialist is about territorial aquisition or gaining territory so if Britain gave up your country, whether volentarily or not is still the oppersit of imperialism because it was losing territiory.

any way im sorry i insulted you before and this is particular descussion is pointless. So shall we move on?

(Edited by AK47 at 2:27 pm on Mar. 1, 2003)

[suffianr]

Not yet. The British were imperialists. And in some ways, they still are...

The legacy of occupation lives on for generations, you see. The psychological mindsets of people who were conditioned to think & behave in a certain way is something that gets handed down the line.

Essentially, if my old Grannie thought the Brits were right to segregate the races, to mark strong disticntions against one another (during British rule, only Malays were allowed to be involved in administrative matters, whilst the Chinese built up an economic base, and the Indians were largely confined to rubber plantations & merchant trading), then she would surely pass on her thoughts to my parents, who would preferentially impart the same sort of thinking to...my generation.

Newsflash: Young Malaysian intellectuals nowadays question the implications of thenature in which we achieved independence...most of us still feel colonized in the mind. We still see segregation nowadays. The much-vaunted multiculturalism that our politicians bestowed upon us is nothing more than a superficial statement, as it stands, ethnocentrism still runs strong in people of my age.

Our major political parties are race-based, ethinic-based institutions founded during the Imperial Age. Our parliament was modeled on the House of Commons, our judges still wear those stupid wigs and even our Special Branch inherited tactics from GB. Our entire way of life was modeled on theirs.

So, breaking away from those sort of things takes time. Sometimes even a lifetime.

[Blibblob]

Dont argue with AK47 about British imperialism. He is British. To him Brittania can do no wrong.

[suffianr]

I spent my childhood in London. Footie, Fish and Chips Wackaday. And Hyde Park every bloody weekend. Forgive me if it sounds condescending, but it's not like I don't understand them. :)

[Corvus Corax]

I am British as well but I go against AK on this one, I see us as Imperialists, if not in the physical 'definition' then in a mental sense.

[Invader Zim]

Well going from owning 1/4 of the world to owning sweet FA is not what i call imperialism but believe what you like. Admittedly Britain has done some fucked up shit in the past, but today we are not really empire hunting.

[Blibblob]

lol

Of course not, i dont think britan would be able to stand up against anything now....

[Invader Zim]

Quote: from Corvus Corax on 2:53 pm on Mar. 1, 2003
I am British as well but I go against AK on this one, I see us as Imperialists, if not in the physical 'definition' then in a mental sense.


Im not for or againt anyone on this one, im just fed up of being called an imperialist by people who support the IRA.

[Invader Zim]

Quote: from Blibblob on 3:01 pm on Mar. 1, 2003
lol

Of course not, i dont think britan would be able to stand up against anything now....


So true.

Any way what are you saying Britaina can do no wrong, ive given Britain more slagging than most on this forum.

[Invader Zim]

Quote: from suffianr on 2:50 pm on Mar. 1, 2003
I spent my childhood in London. Footie, Fish and Chips Wackaday. And Hyde Park every bloody weekend. Forgive me if it sounds condescending, but it's not like I don't understand them. :)


Gutted londons a dump.

[Blibblob]

ARGADS!!! enough of the IRA, i hear enough about that from my grandmother...

Stupid slagging fool. Where the hell is your back-up. I will defend the US if people start flamming it without reason. But you...ARG!!

[Invader Zim]

Quote: from Blibblob on 3:09 pm on Mar. 1, 2003
ARGADS!!! enough of the IRA, i hear enough about that from my grandmother...

Stupid slagging fool. Where the hell is your back-up. I will defend the US if people start flamming it without reason. But you...ARG!!

1. what the fuck does any of this have to-do with the USA.
2. You are totaly talking about nothing even relevant to this conversation.

3. Now your just spamming, because you said similar stuff on other threads.

4. The IRA thread in history was the reason for this thread as i pointed out at the beggining so WTF are you on about.

[Just Joe]

the British have not given self determination to the people of Ireland. they have used there divide and conquer tactics to basically plunge most of Africa into civil war. the went to war only 20 years ago to save an overseas colony. they still meddle in other countrys affair. extending your countrys influence is exactly what Blair is doing now with Iraq.

you fucking retard.

(Edited by Just Joe at 5:26 pm on Mar. 1, 2003)

[Invader Zim]

Quote: from Just Joe on 5:23 pm on Mar. 1, 2003
the British have not given self determination to the people of Ireland. they have used there divide and conquer tactics to basically plunge most of Africa into civil war. the went to war only 20 years ago to save an overseas colony. they still meddle in other countrys affair. extending your countrys influence is exactly what Blair is doing now with Iraq.

you fucking retard.

(Edited by Just Joe at 5:26 pm on Mar. 1, 2003)


Blair is not going to do fuck all in Iraq because will get kicked out of office if he does. But i suppose that he may do, but that is the politicians not the people.

(sigh) Again N.Ireland does have self determination, thats why N.Ireland has the Vote.

[Invader Zim]

Divide and conquer tacktics, ahh, your about 6 decades out on that.

Overs sees colony i take it you mean the falkland islands, the people who live their wanted to remain BRITISH, you moron. And they went to war because Argantina invaded britain with its imperialistic policy. You come out with total bull shit arguments.

[Just Joe]

the 6 counties are under direct rule. self determination has never been given to the people of Irleand as a whole. the partition was illegal. you still don't even bother answering this.

Blair will go to war on Iraq. the British people for all there protests and signs, have never been revolutionary and have always accepted the governments policy no matter how unpopular.

you Jackass.

[Invader Zim]

Quote: from Just Joe on 5:57 pm on Mar. 1, 2003
the 6 counties are under direct rule. self determination has never been given to the people of Irleand as a whole. the partition was illegal. you still don't even bother answering this.

Blair will go to war on Iraq. the British people for all there protests and signs, have never been revolutionary and have always accepted the governments policy no matter how unpopular.

you Jackass.

Ok lets say for the minuit that the People of N.Ireland have no selfdetermination, then how do you account for the unionist partys.

I agree the British people are not generaly revolutionary, but we have elections, the people will simply vote him out of office if he does next general election, or his own party will kick him out, like the Tories did to Margret Thatcher.

[Just Joe]

i'm not saying the people of 'Northern Ireland' have no self determination because i don't recognise the state. no true Republican does. the self determination has to be for the Irish people as a whole. if there was a vote in the 6 counties and the free state that rejected re-unification, i'd accept it. anyway, see my other reply in the history forum for the reasons why we will eventually triumph.

who will the anti-war protesters vote for next election? IDS is pro-war and the Lib Dems are on the band wagon. there is no democracy in the UK. people are stuck with Blair for a long time yet.

[Invader Zim]

Quote: from Just Joe on 6:07 pm on Mar. 1, 2003
i'm not saying the people of 'Northern Ireland' have no self determination because i don't recognise the state. no true Republican does. the self determination has to be for the Irish people as a whole. if there was a vote in the 6 counties and the free state that rejected re-unification, i'd accept it. anyway, see my other reply in the history forum for the reasons why we will eventually triumph.

who will the anti-war protesters vote for next election? IDS is pro-war and the Lib Dems are on the band wagon. there is no democracy in the UK. people are stuck with Blair for a long time yet.

No the the Lib dems, are not on the "band wagon" as you said, they are the peace party, they want at least another UN resolution, then a comprehesive debate to find other solutions. Charles Kennedy was on the Peace march and spoke in the demonstrations condeming the war. Maybe you should watch more news night.

[Pete]

Britain never willfully gave up their colonies for reasons other then they were scared shitless or they had no money. India had rebelled twice in 100 years, the first being the Indian Mutiny, the second being Ghandi's 'rebellion' (I call it a rebellion because it went against imperialism). Canada was given selfdetermination because the American's beacme too strong for the Empire to protect her once prized colony from. Malaysia (sorry for the spelling) as it has already been said was economic. Hong Kong, contract. Austrailia. I'm not to sure but the same as Canada I believe. The statue of Westminister was to ease the wieght of the colonies on the crown's coffers.

[Invader Zim]

This entire conversation now belongs in the history bourd, but any way what does any of this have to-do with the definition of imperialism. GB was imperialist yes no-one is dening this.

[peaccenicked]

Everybody here should have a look at this (http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/1916lenin-imperialism.html). As an example of modern British imperialism have a look here (http://www.finlays.net/plantations.html)

[RedPirate]

They are imperialist and everyone knows it... I agree people don't really know they're words...

[Invader Zim]

Quote: from peaccenicked on 7:07 pm on Mar. 2, 2003
Everybody here should have a look at this (http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/1916lenin-imperialism.html). As an example of modern British imperialism have a look here (http://www.finlays.net/plantations.html)


Thats commercial imperialism, not the same, also its know more than any other western country does, why pick out GB especially because they drink a lot of tea??

[peaccenicked]

http://www.rcgfrfi.easynet.co.uk/marxism/a...es/f114-hoi.htm (http://www.rcgfrfi.easynet.co.uk/marxism/articles/f114-hoi.htm) This is worth studying.

[Blibblob]

No, ive created a thread on Imperalism before. And stated that the US is not imperialistic. They dont steal land. Its all economical, and we have decided that that is imperialism.

[Just Joe]

imperialism isn't stealing land. thats colonialism. and what d'you think the US is planning to do with Iraq? what have they done in Iran, Chile, Cuba, Nicaragua, Grenada and other countries? interfered with there governments for there own interests. thats imperialism. if you don't think the United States is imperialist, you need to re-examine how you look at world politics.

[RedComrade]

In the age of globalization and spilt second international communication it is no longer necessary to impose one nations rule over another with direct occupation or acquisition of territory. Imperialism is merely the expansion of ones power it does not imply the means. Certainly the United States and even Great Britain are imperialists nations.

[socialist2000]

Quote: from Just Joe on 1:29 am on Mar. 4, 2003
imperialism isn't stealing land. thats colonialism. and what d'you think the US is planning to do with Iraq? what have they done in Iran, Chile, Cuba, Nicaragua, Grenada and other countries? interfered with there governments for there own interests. thats imperialism. if you don't think the United States is imperialist, you need to re-examine how you look at world politics.


Joe look at the definition of imperialism that AK posted then look at what you just posted. See the minor flaw in your post?