Just Joe - I don't understand!

[Xvall]

I really do not understand you. You seem to be quite socialistic, and have the right idea; but who do you insist on categorising communists into the same group? Many of the communists here would probably agree with much of you say! Why do you insist on believing that communism is NOTHING like what you believe in! You seem to have a condition that I see a lot of communists and socialists have. One individual (Either the Communist or Socialist.) doesn't like the way the Soviet Union, North Korea, Cuba, Vietnam, or whatever country is run; so they try to 'seperate' themselves from these nations by claiming that they are not (Communist/Socialist) but rather (Socialist/Communist) instead. I really do not like this attitude. In actuality; most of the people who consider themselves communists are probably very liberal, like you. Many of them probably do not support the Soviet Union either. Why must you be so agressive; do not you see that many of us are on the same side as you?

[Spiteful]

I understand what you mean; I'm somewhat like him.

But was it necessary to use three semicolons in one paragraph? The semicolon is the most annoying punctuation point.

[Just Joe]

i know, as i said in the other thread, i agree with a lot of what anti-Soviet commies say. but i get annoyed when they do the following things:

- discredit me completely because i am Catholic

- claim i'm some sort of right wing Nationalist because i want independance and self determination for the Irish people.



(Edited by Just Joe at 11:20 pm on Feb. 28, 2003)

[canikickit]

Don't you do the same to others then. Didn't you learn that in mass on Sunday? "Do unto others as you would unto something or other..."

[Just Joe]

errrr, no i don't discredit someones argument on the basis of there religion.

[Xvall]

Well I do not discredit you because you are a Catholic. I am not religious; but I do not care about religion. A person's religious beliefs are their own, and not my concern. I don't think you're a nationalist; it just annoys me when you do the same that you belief people are doing to you; judging a group of people on their beliefs.

(I only use the semicolons because I don't feel like having comas everywhere. I'll try not to use it too much.)

[synthesis]

The semicolon is definately the best punctuation point in existence.

Slimebag.

[mentalbunny]

This is irrelevant but why are semicolons annoying? I bet you don't like them only cos you don't know how to use them... (like most people).

Yeah, anyway, I don't understand Just Joe either.

[Invader Zim]

I hate punctuation.

[Pete]

Some people say the semicolon is the most annoying piece of punctionation in the english langauge; it is the hardest to use properly. Sometimes I think about using it but refrain because I don't know if it is the proper usage; it is a beautiful piece of punctionation. I think I have rethought my ideals abuot nationalism; patriotism and communism do not mix; nationalism (to an extent) and communism do mix.

[Blibblob]

AHHH!! SEMI COLONS!!

I like commas...

and dot dot dots...

[Just Joe]

Quote: from mentalbunny on 10:40 am on Mar. 1, 2003
Yeah, anyway, I don't understand Just Joe either.


whats there not to understand? i support Socialism. i support Communism because i agree with the ideals of liberty, democracy, equality and justice. the Soviet Union and any other Communist nation has had none of these things. why should i agree with an ideology that has the worst reputation second only to Fascism?

[Pete]

Some times you need to look beyond reputations. Capitalism has caused this world irrepairable damages.

[Blibblob]

ooo!, but it has a good reputation...

[Spiteful]

MentalBunny, I love you.

The semicolon is used when combining two sentences into one but seperating them by using said punctuation point..

CrazyPete, in your small paragraph, you used the semicolon once where it wasn't needed.

[Xvall]

See; that's what I'm saying. There are a lot of people on this site that share the exact same beliefs as you, Joe. You just need to make sure not to assume things about certain individuals just because they follow certain ideologies.

[mentalbunny]

Just Joe, I don't understaqnd your nationalism, or the nationalism you at least seem to have (can you say that?).

Aww, I'm touched that someone loves me, it looks like your the only one though :sad:

[Just Joe]

what don't you understand about it? i only want self determination for the Irish people which would involve the 32 countys under Irish control not the 6 counties under the imperial control of Britain. i'm not a jingoistic arsehole whos proud of a passport.

[synthesis]

The "dot dot dots" are called epilipses. I'm entirely sure I spelled that wrong.

[mentalbunny]

Thanks for your explanation, Just Joe, I couldn't believe that you were jingoistic, etc but wanted to make sure.

I'd also like to know what lengths you would go to in order to obtain self-determination. Do you support the IRA for instance? Things along that line. Anyway thanks for your time.

[Som]

I posted this in another thread, but it seems to have gone ignored.

You really need to get your definitions straight, besides being completley wrong, they are incredibly irritating to use on a forum that defines the words differently than you do, causing quite a bit of unneeded arguments. Its something that keeps coming up as well.

Your definition of communism is nothing but the usual western simplification of terms in propaganda. The simple minded mentality of 'the soviet union is run by communists, therefore the system they implement is communism'. This is wrong. They called themselves communists because they claimed to believe in an EVENTUAL communist society.

THE SOVIET UNION WAS NEVER COMMUNIST.
There has never been a true communist country for more than isolated periods. Communism is a stateless classless society.

The soviet union was Marxist-leninist. The system you constantly refer to as communism is Leninism. The soviet union ran a socialist or state capitalist economy, and was a one-party system. This is no definite association to be made with marxism and communism, as it is only one branch of marxism, which is one system of socialism.


Get your definitions straight and save us all a lot of trouble.

[Socialsmo o Muerte]

Those of you condemning JustJoe's view for Ireland....

Do you understand what is going on?

It seems as though many of you don't understand the happenings in that trouble island. You need to be in or around it to get the full picture it seems. I live in Wales and completely understand JustJoe's plight. He is correct.

[Just Joe]

thank you socialsmo.

Som, i saw your reply, but didn't want to respond. i've heard it all before. i'm not totally 'anti' communist, but i turn anti-communist when people start making stupid remarks. yeah the USSR wasn't communist, but every country thats ever tried to be has been a police state. with the possible exception of the Paris Commune and post revolutionary Soviet Russia. but how long did they last? not even a year combined.

i know some good Communists. the problem is, every Communist i know who seems to be well educated on Marx and have his shit together on most issues, are Stalinists/Maoists. they are closer to me because they understand self determination and anti-imperialism better than Trotskyites who don't recognise self determination. but Stalinsts/Maoists are enemies of liberty so i can never support them. this is why i ain't a Communist.

[Som]

Leninist.

You refuse to hold off that association. Leninism is the set of ideas that led to all those police states, not communism. You can't seem to fence off that word, the soviet union wasn't communist not because it was a police state, but because it retained the state at all, no such thing as a communist state, thats a contradiction in terms.

You seem to be against Marxism-Leninism. not communism.

[Just Joe]

whats Leninism? an add on the Marxism. Leninism doesn't contradict Marxism at all so it can't be considered revisionism, therefore, Leninism is Marxism. its debateble that Communism can indeed be seperated from Marxism.

i'm not even against Leninism as a whole. but its too shaky. Leninism could be democratic and was for a short time. but one failed assasination attempt, one 'red terror' and Lenins vanguard party stops being vanguard and becomes a police state.

[Som]

Leninism is a vanguard party leading a revolution followed by a one-party state.

While your right in saying Leninism doesn't contradict marxism, you make an irrational leap of logic when you imply Marxism implies Leninism.

Marxism doesn't imply leninism at all. Marx never said anything about a single party state or a vanguard party.

Marxism can definitly be seperated from communism, its not a theory he created, its not something that hasn't been complete rethought several times since. Marxism and communism are not even really interchangable words, as Marxism is merely a method to reach communism.

[Just Joe]

i never implied Marxism means Leninism, i meant Leninism, means Marxism. you can't be a Leninist without being a Marxist.

i forgot what this debate was even about.

later.

[Som]

Sure, but that hardly makes it applicable to say communism is the one-party dictatorships of the soviet union and the like.

The debate was that your definitions suck.

[Xvall]

I doubt that leninism is the problem.