The IKEA scene from 'Fight Club'

[John Lenin]

2_SpIpnG36E

Marx's theory of alienation ?

Commodity fetishism ?

[BIG BROTHER]

It reminds me of the spoof of a saying that says "first I buy, then I exist" I would say though it seems to be talking more about consumerism.

[Norseman]

Neither. This is simply consumerism, but of a special kind. It's essentially the goal of lifestyle marketing. You're supposed to buy things in order to be someone of worth. If you want to be a punk, then you have to get a mohawk, lots of studded leather, various accessories and a skateboard. If you want to be a gangster, then you have to get bling bling. If you want to be a upper-middle class person then you have to get a nice car, and a good looking house, and go to work with an expensive suit and tie, etc. This is basically how companies sell completely unnecessary things to people, at absurd prices, and manage to get lots of customers. They'll make commercials, advertisements, and use various forms of product placement on TV to make people think that they need to buy something in order to gain respect for being who they are. The companies try to make people feel like they need to advertise their essence, so that they can sell things to everyone.

[Mujer Libre]

It has anti-consumerist overtones, but looking at the rest of the film, it actually focuses on how men are feminised through consumption, and espouses a masculinist-primitivist, and somewhat nihilist philosophy.

So no, I don't think Fight Club, or even just this scene, has leftist overtones, it just so happens that some of the views presented coincide slightly with leftish views.

[Black Dagger]

^--- totally agree.

It's like how some conspiracy theorists/theories can draw on ideas that may sound leftist or even be leftist, but the way they're employed in a broader sense certainly is not.

[Trystan]

In the book Tyler actually talks about the destruction of civilization.

[Trystan]

I thought that this scene was very Marxist:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4siTwwGvHLQ

Edit: what happened there? Hm . . . yeah, he does want to destroy civilization.

[gla22]

he does in the movie too. In the other thread I used quotes from the book and the movie to clearly show the anarco-primitivist ideology. Anti-consumerism is clearly a part of primitivism.

[Black Dagger]

Could you please repost these? I don't see how Tyler could be described as an 'anarcho-primitivist' - he's an anti-civ nihilist, he doesn't really reject technology from what i can recall, nor does he show any enviro-consciousness.

[Plagueround]

Could you please repost these? I don't see how Tyler could be described as an 'anarcho-primitivist' - he's an anti-civ nihilist, he doesn't really reject technology from what i can recall, nor does he show any enviro-consciousness.

"In the world I see - you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Tower. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying strips of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway. "

This line could easily be interpreted as primitivism, but I've always thought it was just another part of the escapist romanticism Tyler represents. While some of the themes of the movie and book could fit Anarchism/Marxism, I've never felt Fight Club was trying to portray or advocate a particular belief. To me its an artistic modern love tragedy.

[Black Dagger]

Is that quote from the book or the film?

[Plagueround]

Variations of that quote are in both.

[Kitskits]

Could someone please debunk the supposed leftism in the Fight Club movie? I think it's pretty clear that it is some kind of nihilist philosophy which is anti-capitalist, but definately anti-communist too.

[gla22]

We wanted to blast the world free of history.... picture yourself planting radishes and seed potatoes on the fifteenth green of a forgotten golf course. You'll hunt elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center, and dig clams next to the skeleton of the Space Needle leaning at a forty-five degree angle. We'll paint the skyscrapers with huge totem faces and goblin tikis, and every evening what's left of mankind will retreat to empty zoos and lock itself in cages as protection against the bears and big cats and wolves that pace and watch us from outside the cage bars at night.


"Imagine," Tyler said, "stalking elk past department store windows and stinking racks of beautiful rotting dresses and tuxedos on hangers; you'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life, and you'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Tower. Jack and the beanstalk, you'll climb up through the dripping forest canopy and the air will be so clean you'll see tiny figures pounding corn and laying strips of venison to dry in the empty car pool lane of an abandoned superhighway stretching eight-lanes-wide and August-hot for a thousand miles."

These are quotes from the book. The movie quote is a mix between these two. Obviously advocates primitivism. The first quote where he says "he wants to blast free from history" reminds me of Nietzsche and overcoming the historical and societal constraints, what only the ubermensch will be able to think critically independently of. The second quote shows some environmental conscious when he references the clean air. His philosophy is neo-luddite anarcho-primitivism stuff. He wants to see society revert to an egalitarian tribal society. casting off past historical limitations and creating a new society based on the now. There is also a very pro-working class blue collar theme advocating class struggle. I wouldn't call the philosophy nihilist really, because there is alot of exestentialism, primarily in the "human sacrafice" drivers license theme.

[mykittyhasaboner]

This line could easily be interpreted as primitivism, but I've always thought it was just another part of the escapist romanticism Tyler represents. While some of the themes of the movie and book could fit Anarchism/Marxism, I've never felt Fight Club was trying to portray or advocate a particular belief. To me its an artistic modern love tragedy.

^^this. :thumbup1:

[Raúl Duke]

I thought it had situationist undertones (as in, our society is more about images, commodities, etc "You are what you buy." These things are what the situationist say about society in 1st world countries and the movie, at the beginning, demonstrates it by showing Jack's "priorities in life", which are to buy. Then the movie precedes to show a resistance against this consumerist society, but not the kind advocated by situationists of course.) but not really anarchist/marxist ones.

The beginning it sets up a situationist undertone then it goes to a more overt primitivist one. Of course, as mentioned early, consumerism is opposed by primitivists and situationists but they both advocate different things and likely have some varieation to their ideas.

[Pogue]

Theres a section of the book where the driver says that they want a general strike so they can redistribute the wealth of the world.
Anarcho-syndicalism anyone?

[which doctor]

I thought it had situationist undertones (as in, our society is more about images, commodities, etc "You are what you buy." These things are what the situationist say about society in 1st world countries and the movie, at the beginning, demonstrates it by showing Jack's "priorities in life", which are to buy. Then the movie precedes to show a resistance against this consumerist society, but not the kind advocated by situationists of course.) but not really anarchist/marxist ones.

The beginning it sets up a situationist undertone then it goes to a more overt primitivist one. Of course, as mentioned early, consumerism is opposed by primitivists and situationists but they both advocate different things and likely have some varieation to their ideas.
Although the ideas of Fight Club may coincide with some popular views of a recuperated, bastardized version of situationism, it has little to do with the theories espoused by such as Guy Debord and Raoul Vaneigem.

[which doctor]

Theres a section of the book where the driver says that they want a general strike so they can redistribute the wealth of the world.
Anarcho-syndicalism anyone?
That's one line, not a recurring theme.

[Black Dagger]

Poll closed.

Whoever bumped this thread/poll - please look at dates before voting in polls in future. It is totally egotistical to bump an old discussion simply so you can vote in it - i mean, there has been no new posts in this thread - just votes.

[cleef]

the link is dead anyways

'the video is no longer available due to a copyright claim made by FOX'