"HUMAN SHIELDS" in Iraq - A Perfect Marriage of Treason and

[Capitalist Imperial]

Have you seen these people from western nations (and other countries as well), some of them American, actually going into Iraq as some form of sit in/protest?

What exactly do they hope to accomplish? Do they honestly think that they will deter just action by the USA by singing cumbaya in a circle and exchanging fucking flowers? What a bunch of utter imbeciles.

Despicable. Absolutely abhorrent. I can't speak for other nations, but as a Citizen of the USA, I believe that these individuals are not merely protesting, but in fact are actively defending Iraq. Thus, I submit that the US government immediately withdraw their citizenship, and charges them with treason shall they ever set foot back in the USA. Upon conviction, summary execution should be carried out with extreme prejudice.

Hopefully (and this would actually be more fun), we can cut out the middle man and these "human shields" will fulfill their destiny, by ending up at the business end of some godd ol' US made, US delivered DU munitions, preferably 125mm.

Or perhaps a frag bomb

or an air-to surface missle

no, no, no, I got it, how about if their last sight is looking up at a C-130 gunsip, afghani-wedding style?

Or just a good old fashioned .223 roung from an M-16 right between the eyes.

Any of these methods would be fine with me.

[Pete]

America going to war with a forgien country is treason against the Declaration of Independance, the American Constitution (unless you change it), United Nations, and the words of George Washington and other early presidents.

Take your rascism else where C.I. Really. What they are doing takes balls. Balls taht you don't have since you have not, in your long time being here, allowed your self to accept something that hasn't been crammed into your skull since birth. Maybe one day you will realize that Iraq poses America no threats. And if America wanted to deal with a threat they would go after North Korea, but North Korea can fight back ("turn your skies to flames" ithink the quote is) so you guys back off and tried to forget about it. Grow up. Fuck. You, by mocking these people, prove you have no respect or balls. Your nation has niether as well.

[Capitalist Imperial]

News flash, CP:

We've gone to war with North Korea before, and we beat them. They are not a threat to us. Believe me, the DPRK would not stand a chance against the USA, and we know it, and so does Kim Jong. Any political analyst will tell you that big talk and grandstanding by the DPRK is par for the course, but they are short on action. Any attempt by North Korea to attack the USA would mean the end for north korea. We just know what the serious issure is right now, and we are concentrating on it. If the DPRK really wants to escalate the situation, it will be their fuck-up.

You must understand this.

By the way, tell me how I am "racist". You leftists like to throw that word around a lot, even when it is a misnomer.

[Hampton]

It's funny that you can joke about innocent civilian death(afghan wedding party) when it's not American's dying, but when someone isn't crying about how bad 9-11 was it seems to be some act of treason.

[Capitalist Imperial]

Quote: from Hampton on 3:59 am on Feb. 27, 2003
It's funny that you can joke about innocent civilian death(afghan wedding party) when it's not American's dying, but when someone isn't crying about how bad 9-11 was it seems to be some act of treason.

there is still contention that the C-130 was being fired upon

[thursday night]

I remember a proud citizen of the Democratic People's Republic of Korea once telling a Canadian news reporter the following:

"Let them come! We will defeat the imperialists, we will drive them from the peninsula!"

Long live socialism! Down with the lies! Death to America!

[Palmares]

They just want the US, etc to be guilty of killing their own people. It is somewhat stupid, but sometimes bravery comes from ignorance.

[Anonymous]

Treason! Fucking treason! And noones doing a goddamned thing about it! If this were 1903 those hippie peace-mongers would be shot on sight. I mean have you seen these people! There practically throughbacks from the 1960's. They need a serious ass kicking, IMHO.

(Edited by Dark Capitalist at 9:58 am on Feb. 27, 2003)

[Capitalist Imperial]

Quote: from thursday night on 4:12 am on Feb. 27, 2003
I remember a proud citizen of the Democratic People's Republic of Korea once telling a Canadian news reporter the following:

"Let them come! We will defeat the imperialists, we will drive them from the peninsula!"



We've been on that penninsula for 50 years, we've already defeated them on their own penninsula, and there is nothing that any of their cheap talk can do about it.

Action, not words my friends. We all know what the DPRK is really capable of Vs. the USA

Not much

[Capitalist Imperial]

Quote: from thursday night on 4:12 am on Feb. 27, 2003
I remember a proud citizen of the Democratic People's Republic of Korea once telling a Canadian news reporter the following:

"Let them come! We will defeat the imperialists, we will drive them from the peninsula!"



We've been on that penninsula for 50 years, we've already defeated them on their own penninsula, and there is nothing that any of their cheap talk can do about it.

Action, not words my friends. We all know what the DPRK is really capable of Vs. the USA

Not much

[Old Friend]

Once again, I find myself in total agreement with CI on military matters. They should have their citizenships revoked, as their motives in Iraq are soley to undermine the ability of the U.S. military to prosecute war. They could be putting the lives of ours troops in jeopardy. If I were a colonel in the field, I would issue a standing order to fire on any human shield. If I were the attorney general, I would charge any one of them as an enemy combatants. If we label them as combatants then we are well within our rights to extinguish their particular brand of idiocy. What kind of thinking person would call themselves a human shield and then go stand in front of one of Iraq's hard targets. In my mind, they should change their names to human targets.

(Edited by Old Friend at 9:52 am on Feb. 27, 2003)

[Pete]

I am saying rascist to all of those who support Liberty Lovers stupid attempts to discredit the French, and all of thsoe who support the exodus of Muslims from america (read the thread I made about refugees).

[suffianr]

Hopefully (and this would actually be more fun), we can cut out the middle man and these "human shields" will fulfill their destiny, by ending up at the business end of some godd ol' US made, US delivered DU munitions, preferably 125mm.

Or perhaps a frag bomb

or an air-to surface missle

no, no, no, I got it, how about if their last sight is looking up at a C-130 gunsip, afghani-wedding style?

Or just a good old fashioned .223 roung from an M-16 right between the eyes.

Any of these methods would be fine with me.

'Nothing like murdering a few harmless civvies, eh, CI? It's enlightening to know what all that US military hardware is going to be used for...

[Capitalist Imperial]

Harmless civvies?

They are directly interfering with and attempting to compromise US operations.

Your label of the as "harmless civvies" is a gross misnomer.

As usual, I agree with SN, active targeting and a shooting solution scenario should be carte blanche action against these treasonous fucks.

[Invader Zim]

Quote: from Old Friend on 7:47 am on Feb. 27, 2003
Once again, I find myself in total agreement with CI on military matters. They should have their citizenships revoked, as their motives in Iraq are soley to undermine the ability of the U.S. military to prosecute war. They could be putting the lives of ours troops in jeopardy. If I were a colonel in the field, I would issue a standing order to fire on any human shield. If I were the attorney general, I would charge any one of them as an enemy combatants. If we label them as combatants then we are well within our rights to extinguish their particular brand of idiocy. What kind of thinking person would call themselves a human shield and then go stand in front of one of Iraq's hard targets. In my mind, they should change their names to human targets.

(Edited by Old Friend at 9:52 am on Feb. 27, 2003)


Oi retard. They can go where they like without undermining US militarism. Or did you not know America is not at war with SAddam yet. For fuck sake if your going to say this wait a month or two until you are actually at war. Any way why should they have their citizanship revoked if a war does break out Saddam will have them killed anyway.

[Old Friend]

Who are you calling a retard? Again you demonstrate your ignorance. Too bad, I have been blocked from commemorating you, once again. We are still at war with Iraq due to his noncompliance with the ceasefire agreement.

"The Persian Gulf War was conducted under a 1991 congressional resolution that states "the president is authorized...to use United States armed forces pursuant to United Nations" resolutions that found Saddam Hussein's invasion of Kuwait and Iraq's development of weapons of mass destruction threatened the peace and security of the region.

Congress has never repealed the resolution, and for the last decade, U.S. and British warplanes have enforced a no-fly zone over Iraqi territory because Saddam Hussein never lived up to a cease-fire agreement requiring him to comply with the U.N. resolutions.

President Bush has argued that the resolution Congress passed after the Sept. 11 attacks also gives him broad authority to conduct operations in Iraq." - aerotechnews (http://www.aerotechnews.com/starc/2002/082302/legal_authority.html)

Moron! This also places a wide variety of people in violation of the 1918 Sedition Act. The organizers of the peace demonstrations should come under investigation, as well as many in the media, namely Dan Rather-be-an-Iraqi (http://www.gwinnettdailyonline.com/GDP/archive/articleF34C99F423C348C8801D844113B105C4.asp).

(Edited by Old Friend at 12:23 pm on Feb. 28, 2003)

[Old Friend]

Saddam will have them killed anyway

That's actually right on the money. However, if they happen to try to flee Iraq, and come back to this country, they should be denied entry.

[Invader Zim]

Quote: from Old Friend on 10:20 am on Feb. 28, 2003
Who are you calling a retard? Again you demonstrate your ignorance. Too bad, I have been blocked from commemorating you, once again. We are still at war with Iraq due to his noncompliance with the ceasefire agreement.

"The Persian Gulf War was conducted under a 1991 congressional resolution that states "the president is authorized...to use United States armed forces pursuant to United Nations" resolutions that found Saddam Hussein's invasion of Kuwait and Iraq's development of weapons of mass destruction threatened the peace and security of the region.

Congress has never repealed the resolution, and for the last decade, U.S. and British warplanes have enforced a no-fly zone over Iraqi territory because Saddam Hussein never lived up to a cease-fire agreement requiring him to comply with the U.N. resolutions.

President Bush has argued that the resolution Congress passed after the Sept. 11 attacks also gives him broad authority to conduct operations in Iraq." - aerotechnews (http://www.aerotechnews.com/starc/2002/082302/legal_authority.html)

Moron! This also places a wide variety of people in violation of the 1918 Sedition Act. The organizers of the peace demonstrations should come under investigation, as well as many in the media, namely Dan Rather-be-an-Iraqi (http://www.gwinnettdailyonline.com/GDP/archive/articleF34C99F423C348C8801D844113B105C4.asp).

(Edited by Old Friend at 12:23 pm on Feb. 28, 2003)


Fair point. But still why are people saying no war with Iraq if we are already at war?

[Hampton]

The organizers of the peace demonstrations should come under investigation

What are you trying to say? That people who dissent and openly demonstrate their dissidence in public should be "investigated"? Put the word 'investigation" in the proper American historical context: have their civil liberties taken away and thrown in jail, deported or murdered.

[Arkham]

Well, I guess the cogent questions would be as follows.

1. What do you define treason as? It seems to be somewhat different than what the constitution allows for.

2. Why would they be shot? Where is that particular punishment cited for treason?

3. Do you think the human shields will have any effect once the US starts dropping bombs, or are they basically dead already?

Insofar as the argument the first gulf war never ended, this is not only highly convenient, but it sounds specious prima facie. If that war never ended, why would Bush and Co. be trying so hard to lobby the public, congress, and the UN for a resolution authorizing new force? It seems like he would just use this constant war that we've been in for the last 10 years as his justification, were that the case.

[Anonymous]

70% of the americans cant pint iraqu in the map, yet they go to war there, i even know some morons here that dont know who sadam is,nor who putedhim in power want to go there to fight for USA...
and you DARE calling the human shield operatives a bunch of utter imbeciles?
YOU are a utter imbecil you imperial moron...

[suffianr]

Your label of the as "harmless civvies" is a gross misnomer.

Human Shields don't carry weapons. Isn't that harmless enough?

[vodun]

What a shock! The Human Shields come skulking back home.

And this has to be the brightest observation of the year:

On Friday, the head of Sweden's largest peace organization urged human shields to leave Iraq, saying they were being used for propaganda purposes by Iraqi President Saddam Hussein.

No shit! Ya think??

http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/03/03/...elds/index.html (http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/03/03/sprj.irq.human.shields/index.html)

[Old Friend]

Is it just me, or does anyone else find it hilarious that a guy calling himself anarchist would be waving a Soviet flag as an avatar? Personally, I think the guy is a bit brain damaged, judging from his posts, and his choice of avatars. However, I thought I would mention it to the group for further discussion.


and you DARE calling the human shield operatives a bunch of utter imbeciles?
YOU are a utter imbecil you imperial moron

Oh! Oh! Don't you dare call those human shields inbeciles. Word of advice, anarchist; if you're going to call people morons, it would be in your best interest to learn how to spell.

[Capitalist Imperial]

Quote: from Hampton on 10:05 pm on Feb. 28, 2003

The organizers of the peace demonstrations should come under investigation

What are you trying to say? That people who dissent and openly demonstrate their dissidence in public should be "investigated"? Put the word 'investigation" in the proper American historical context: have their civil liberties taken away and thrown in jail, deported or murdered.


THey are not merely demonstrating. They are actively defending a known enemy of the United States and compromising US military operations.

[Capitalist Imperial]

Quote: from the anarchist on 12:40 am on Mar. 1, 2003
70% of the americans cant pint iraqu in the map, yet they go to war there,


Hopefully, after US forces are done there, NO ONE will be able to find Iraq, on a map or otherwise, period.

[Capitalist Imperial]

Hey, SN, I love your new sig, LOL!!!

It just never gets any better around here, does it, my friend?

[synthesis]

You're good for a laugh, SN.


Don't you dare call those human shields inbeciles. Word of advice, anarchist; if you're going to call people morons, it would be in your best interest to learn how to spell.

[canikickit]

Don't you dare call those human shields inbeciles. Word of advice, anarchist; if you're going to call people morons, it would be in your best interest to learn how to spell.

How do you spell "imperialism" Norm? Don't be such a fucking hypocrite. How is your Portuguese, by the way?


Is it just me, or does anyone else find it hilarious that a guy calling himself anarchist would be waving a Soviet flag as an avatar?

Not really. If you know your Marxist theory, you will be aware that the aim of Communism is to establish Anarchism. Also, if you knew the Anarchist you would know he doesn't particularily consider himself an Anarchist anymore. I don't think it's a big deal really. It's just a fucking name for a message board.

[Hampton]

THey are not merely demonstrating. They are actively defending a known enemy of the United States and compromising US military operations.

Making the argument that if you're not with Bush you are for Saddam is completely ridiclious.

[Old Friend]

You must admit there is a difference between a typographical error and saying things like "who putedhim in power". In short, I believe there is a big difference between the quality of my posts, and the anarchist's. At least I can speak proper English, and my writings do not resemble ebonics in any way, shape, or form. Sorry, but I think the anarchist sometimes struggles to complete a thought, or write a cogent sentence. In summation, I believe the anarchist's mental acuity speaks for itself, as does mine.

[Old Friend]

How do you spell "imperialism" Norm? Don't be such a fucking hypocrite. How is your Portuguese, by the way?

I can't remember. How about telling me; what voltage requirement is needed to transmit power from point a to point b, if the power requirement at point b is 1000 MW, delivered at 600 kV? The internal resistance of the wire is 0.8 milliohms per Kilometer, and the distance between point A and B is 1200 kilometers. Note: you are looking for the voltage at point A. F#*ckface.


If you would rather tell me the weight of a 90kg man 90,000 meters above the surface of the earth, that's fine.

(Edited by Old Friend at 12:27 pm on Mar. 10, 2003)

[canikickit]

Ha....ha....ha....look at Norm getting all worked up and pissed off.

Look, fuckface, you've tried to prove your intellectual superiority with scientific mumbo-jumbo once before. I wasn't impressed then, and needless to say, I'm not now. I did physics in college for a few months, but I found it incredibly boring. You might as well be asking me if I know your date of birth, what the hell are you trying to prove?

Why don't you tell me, fuckface, what parameters you would have to adjust on a delay unit to cause a flange effect on an audio signal?

Why don't you tell me, fuckface, who wrote and produced "Dreadlocks in the Moonlight" and who did another version of it?

Why don't you tell me the name of the small Irish town I live in?

Are you in college studying any of the above subjects? No?

The point I was making, fuckface, was that your use of language is not necessarily a reflection on your intelligence. Especially when that language is not the one which you have spent the greater part of your life speaking. Hence the reference to Portuguese.

Unfortunatley you were so desperate to show off your intelligence that you failed to stop and consider that. That, Old Fuckface, is why I have, in the past, made references to you having low self esteem. I'm not impressed. Perhaps you are uncomfortable with yourself because you are a....fuckface.

[Old Friend]

what parameters you would have to adjust on a delay unit to cause a flange effect on an audio signal.

Depth of LFO - allows you to control the the notch rate in the sine wave produced by the sound being created. By altering this parameter you can control the level or constructive or destructive interference in the wave function. Effectively, you are altering the frequency response.

Width of LFO - effects pitch modulation

Delay-Of course, the flange effects is created by copying the original sound and feeding that sound back into the wave functions at a delay. This will also alter the frequency response and remains the key ingredient for the production of flange. Without delay there is no flange.

LFO (Low Frequency Oscillation) Waveform - Allows you to choose the shape of the wave. Of course, this will have an effect on the quality of sound produced, as different levels of interference are produced be each variety.

Feedback-Allows the flanged signal to be fed back into the input stream producing a distortion effect.

Pitch Modulation-Is done by increasing or decreasing the rate at which the LFO wave is fed to the original signal. Differences in speed, allow for higher or lower tones to be generated.

Stereo-can be used to create different phases in the left and right speakers. This parameter can be used to tweek the sound to yield a desired product.

If there is anything that I missed please let me know, as I am genuinely interested in the physics behind sound FX generation.

I believe Lee Scratch Perry first recorded "Dreadlocks in the Moonlight". I am pretty sure he was the original artist, as this is the only recording I have heard. I miss sonicnet.com, where you could get continuous feeds from various artists. It was that website where I heard the Arkology album that "Dreadlocks in the Moonlight" first appeared on. I don't know who covered it, or even if Perry's version was the first. Do enlighten me, as I am also curious about this little factoid.

Now that I have done my best to answer the questions you have asked me, will you answer the simple questions that I asked of you. Sorry, but you are the one that decided to bring up the typographical error I made when I was inquiring as to why you leftists consider the U.S. the be imperialists. If you are threatened by my use of physics and science to undermine your attempts to make me look stupid, that's your fault. It would have been easier to let sleeping dogs lie, but you had to mention imperialism for the fifth time. It gets a little old.

As for my self-esteem, I am secure in my own ability. Long ago, I learned that I was actually the only person I can count on. Since this is true, I hold myself in high regard. Not only am I my number one supporter, but I am also my number one critic. I am often hard on myself with respect to my ability to think on my feet. When I make a simple mistake, sometimes I berate myself with petty insults and pull my hair out in frustration. Just kidding, I don't suffer from trichotillomania.

I think it is the harsh criticism that I offer myself that leads to my desire to better myself at all times. However, sometimes my drive for perfection leads to high blood pressure, and could ultimately be my downfall. I am in the process of investigating my stress level and I am actively pursuing ways to relax and develop a more care-free attitude. In short, I always recognize the need to change myself for the better. This time I need to become more lackadaisical, and leave certain things alone. I need to find a way to shut off my mind when relaxation is needed, otherwise I am going to die. All in all, I am extremely proud of who I am, but there are times when doubts hinder my ability to maximize my potential. I remain confident that I am destined for greatness, and that nothing will empede my progress, not even the miniscule level of doubt I offer myself.

[canikickit]

Oh yeah! Well where do I live? :biggrin:

Of course I'm not intimidated by that scientific crap, I'm sure you understand the point I was making. Looks like I choose the wrong questions to ask you though.

Yes, I brought up your misspelling, as a joke. It went over your head, which is fair enough.

Here is some info on Dreadlocks in Moonlight, which I typed out some time ago. It's from Scratch's biography written by David Katz, I recommend you check it out.

Do you have Arkology? The Mikey Dread song ("Dread at the Mantrols" ) is the version I was referring to. I think it demonstrates Scratch's genius quite well indeed. If you like Mikey Dread's version you should also check out "Love the dread" by him, together with the King Tubby version, "Psalms of Dub".

Scratch wrote the song with Bob in mind, he was hoping for him to sing it. Quoted from the book:

"On the evening of Friday, December 3rd, Chris Blackwell passed through the Black ark on his way to 56 Hope Road, where he was to meet a director to discuss the filming of the 'Smile Jamaica' concert. He found Lee Perry working on a powerful new song called "Dreadlocks in Moonlight" (a.k.a. 'Big Neck Police'), which Perry said he had written for Bob Marley to record.
Using a rhythm that was stylistically patterened after 'Police and Thieves', Perry sang in highly symbolic terms of the failure of police intimidation to deter the faithful from their chosen course of righteousness, his quiet delivery holding much emotion:



A time to sow and a time to reap,
Yes, my friend
The seed you sow, that’s what you shall reap
You light the fire, to burn this Nyah
But it no work out, you’re just a weakheart

You send your big neck police friends fe come cool I up
But it no work
For Jah Jah walk right in and cool up the scene
You get a jerk
Far better put they trust in Jah
Shall like be Mount Zion-I
That shall never removeth, iyah
But abideth for-iwa, Jah Jah
The knife that stick de sheep a go stick de goat, do you hear?
How you gonna feel when de knife is at your throat?
For sowing bring reaping, and reaping is harves'
The seed that you sow a yard that’s what you shall reap, yeah
Do you hear?
Jah is I light and salvation, whom shall I fear?
Jah de protector of I life, of whom shall I be afraid?
Hypocrite inna broad daylight, parasite inna dim light
Dreadlocks in moonlight, baldhead at sunrise, oh
Jah Jah is I shepherd, I shall not want
Do you hear? Do you see?
Jah Jah is I shepherd I shall not want
You send your big neck police friends fe come cool I up
But it no work
For Jah Jah walk right in and cool up the scene
You get a jerk, you get a jerk, it no work
You set your sprat to catch a whale
Little did you know
Jah put shackles on your trail
It didn’t work
It couldn’t work....



Though Perry's cut was meant to be a guideline for Bob, Blackwell was taken by the power of Perry's renedition, and offered to have Island release it as a single. Like 'Roast Fish and Cornbread', Island's issue of 'Dreadlocks in Moonlight' would not see much in terms of sales, Perry's individual vocal approach failing to find the broad appeal that Marley managed abroad, but the two songs remained particular favorites of Blackwell himself. Blackwell remembered with fondness observing Perry working on the track:

'I sat in a lot with him on sessions, a particular one was a major event in my life. I remember being in the studio watching him work. He is absolutely the master to me in terms of the production of Jamaican music, music which I think will have the most long lasting value. The particular track came out as "Dreadlocks in Moonlight", he said it was a demo for Bob and I said, "You should do it yourself, I love the way you sing it as it is. I think it's great, but I don't want to take it because I have to go to a rehersal at Hope Road." For him to do a few mixes, they take hours.'
In the end, Blackwell decided to stay while Perry mixed the tune, possibly saving his own life in the process. When Blackwell went off into the night, Lee Perry returned to work on a Junior Murvin track with Earl Morgan and Barry Llewellyn (of the Heptones); their session was interrupted when a friend burst in with shocking news. As Earl Morgan recalled,
That night we was recording with Junior Murvin at Lee Perry's studio, somebody come in and tell we, "Them just shot Bob Marley." We had just finished voicing the tune and me and Lee Perry just drive up to UC, look 'pon the man and say "Wha'ppen?" and him say, "Jah Live". It was an experience.'

(Edited by canikickit at 7:17 pm on Mar. 11, 2003)


(Edited by canikickit at 7:18 pm on Mar. 11, 2003)

[4d thought]

I hate capitalism. I don't hate capitalists. However since you Old friend and C.I. and others of the kind not only accept american propaganda but respect, cherish and defeand without question capitalistic views, I hate a very large part of you.

Your disrespect for human life, C.I., shows how little you deserve to live. Even more sad is how a large portion of the people I'm around daily accept this "kill 'em all" attitude. Its disgusting. Funny how you guys think THEY'RE the scum of the earth. I wonder how many millions of people the world round have just reason to hate you.

Is America at war?
GWB is being sued right now for unconstitutional actions taking to declare war on Iraq. His dad was sued for the same reason. How many Americans know this.

And you Old Friend, spelling and grammer do not reflect intellegince. Its the meaning behind the statements that reflect what is or in your case isn't intellegent. Also when challenging other peoples intelligence on this board try to make your science questions 'social' or 'economical'.

Sorry this post sounds so insulting but your of topic ploys to undermine people and there ideaologies while promoting yourself and your so-called intellect make me sick. SO GO FUCK YOURSELF

(Edited by 4d thought at 12:23 am on Mar. 12, 2003)

[Old Friend]

GWB is being sued right now for unconstitutional actions taking to declare war on Iraq. His dad was sued for the same reason. How many Americans know this.

I know some morons have decided to question the president’s ability to commit troops without a formal declaration of war. However, they are going to lose their case, because it is a weak argument. The U.S. Constitution states:

"The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States; he may require the Opinion, in writing, of the principal Officer in each of the executive Departments, upon any Subject relating to the Duties of their respective Offices, and he shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offences against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment.

He shall have Power, by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, to make Treaties" -U.S. Constitution; Article 2, Section 2

Where as, the Congress has the power to declare war.

The problem lies in the fact that Congress passed a resolution authorizing the President to use military force to disarm Iraq (http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/DailyNews/iraq021011.html), back in October of 2002.

Furthermore, liberals have long made a case for the U.N. in combating the world's problems. The U.N. charter is essentially a treaty, entered into by the President of the United States and affirmed by the Senate. Therefore, the use of force under the U.N. charter is well within the power of the President under Section 2. Article 2. of the United States Constitution. The U.N. charter allows for military action granted the Security Counsel votes in favor. However, under article 51 (http://www.un.org/Overview/Charter/chapter7.html), the U.N. nations can not impede self-defensive action by one member nation against another member nation. Therefore, the President can take all the necessary steps required by the Security Counsel, get denied, and still use the self-defense argument to persecute a war. In summation, liberals, who sought to use the U.N. to solve global conflict, and now complain about what appears to be an extension of presidential powers, essentially miss the paradox that they have created. By deferring issues to the U.N., the powers of Congress have been weakened in many respects, and the powers of the President have expanded over the years.

In addition to the loopholes within the U.S. Constitution, and the U.N. Charter, a precedent has already been established regarding the type of action the President is about to take. First, Israel has engaged in preemptive attacks. Secondly, both the Vietnam and Korean wars were considered police actions under the U.N..

Because of some of the concerns raised by the Constitutionality of committing troops in protracted conflicts without a formal declaration of war the 1973 War Powers Resolution (http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/warpower.htm) was issued by congress. This was a set of guidelines, for both Congress and the President regarding the "introduction of United States Armed Forces into hostilities, or into situations where imminent involvement in hostilities is clearly indicated by the circumstances", which was the case for both Korea and Vietnam. Under this act, troops have been sent to Panama, Grenada, Lebanon, Iraq, Iran, Haiti, Somalia and the Balkans. During the Bosnian conflict the debate was once again raised by congress. In 1997 the McCain-Dole Resolution (http://www.thenewamerican.com/tna/1997/vo13no01/vo13no01_war_powers.htm) was passed to further deal with the problem. It was said that Congress has "the untrammeled authority to unappropriate, disappropriate funds. That is the key; and that makes us the king of the hill".

The debate over war powers continues to this day. However, because of precedents that have been sent, loopholes with the presidents ability to make treaties, current law, and the fact that Congress has approved of the use of force, the useful idiots who are currently suing the President don't have a leg to stand on. Their case will most certainly be thrown out of court, and their lawyers should be severely reprimanded. One this is for certain, those lawyers sound pretty incompetent, and have oversimplified Congress's role in war powers. This has been a debate since the Constitutional Convention, and is the reason why the original document was worded in such a vague manner. The authors of the Constitution did not want to hinder the President's ability to defend the country, but they wanted to protect against abuses by giving Congress an important role. The War Powers Resolution in 1973 was an attempt to expand on the original intent of the framers, and clarify the respective roles of Congress and the Presidency.
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And you Old Friend, spelling and grammer do not reflect intellegince.

That belongs in my "Ignorant Statements Hall of Fame". To say that the way you speak does not reflect intelligence is absurd. Everyone knows better than that.

Its the meaning behind the statements that reflect what is or in your case isn't intellegent.

True, but both are important.

Also when challenging other peoples intelligence on this board try to make your science questions 'social' or 'economical'.

How to transmit electricity is of social and economic importance, as are all science questions.

Sorry this post sounds so insulting but your of topic ploys to undermine people and there ideaologies while promoting yourself and your so-called intellect make me sick. SO GO FUCK YOURSELF

So-called intellect? I notice you didn't bother to answer the question. I have always been a self-promoter. Who else is going to do it for me, you? Hah! You make me sick you thief, you defender of evil, you non-producing socialist. No, F*ck you, you f*cking f*ck.

(Edited by Old Friend at 3:14 pm on Mar. 12, 2003)

[4d thought]

Your intellegence is impressive, despite what I said earlier. You don't need me to tell you that though. I don't agree with your view so I wanted you to be like all the other idiots I talk to at school and so forth.

"How to transmit electricity is of social and economic importance, as are all science questions."

I agree, but unless you make the connection its nothing more than trivia.

(Edited by 4d thought at 7:03 pm on Mar. 12, 2003)

[Liberty Lover]

GWB is being sued right now for unconstitutional actions taking to declare war on Iraq. His dad was sued for the same reason. How many Americans know this.

How many Americans care?