How can I start a union? (Canada)

[Sloth]

ok, so I work at an independent restaurant and the whole staff is getting fucked over on low pay and little hours.

I want to know how we can start a union of our own.

any help?

[chimx]

The best thing to do in my opinion is talk with a union organizer who knows the laws of Canada (both national and local). You may consider getting in touch with the union UNITE HERE (Canada):

http://www.unitehere.ca/pages/default_en.php

If your coworkers are politically motivated enough, you could consider contacting the IWW also:

http://www.iww.org/

[Sloth]

is there a we can just start our own union? i don't want to join with a Local "insert number here"

[chimx]

Yes, I suppose, but that puts you at a considerable disadvantage. You marginalize yourself from other workers at different companies, and you loose all the support of a pre-existing union: financial, legal, etc.

[Sloth]

while this is probably true but i would hope that any union would help support another just for the greater good

[Dr Mindbender]

just do something. Some form of organisation is better than nothing. Have you spoken to your colleagues about it? the more strength you can get the better, and numbers are strength.

Chimx is right though, it may be better to consult an existing pre-established union because not only will you have the assistance of experienced comrades but hopefully the solidarity of other workplaces in times of industrial action.

[chimx]

What are your reasons for not wanting to join UNITE HERE or IWW? Why do you want to be isolated?

[Dr Mindbender]

What are your reasons for not wanting to join UNITE HERE or IWW? Why do you want to be isolated?
its understandable though.

I dont know about the US but certainly here in the UK the leftist sentiment of many unions have been diminished by infiltration by ruling party members, reactionary or even fascist agitators. Some shop stewards are little more than unreliable bosses tools in flatcaps.

Many unions here are little more than a tool of the ruling labour[sic] party.

I think the key is to carefully pick a union with an active and militant reputation.

[Lamanov]

Oh, Chimx, don't send him to a yellow union.

Sloth, for starters, make your own informal workplace struggle group. Hold meetings and assess what you can do together to improve your position (how to establish contact with other workers, work out a way of communication, develop relationship outside the workplace, discuss leafleting, picketing, etc.). Organising in service industry is not easy, and battles with the bosses are often isolated, but you can win better conditions through direct action and create a sense of unity (this is the real meaning of the word "union"). Suggest that you ask for external support: you have IWW in Canada (http://www.iww.ca/).

[chimx]

Oh, Chimx, don't send him to a yellow union.

I gave him links to unite here and the iww.

[Lamanov]

Yes, "Unite Here".


UNITE HERE leaders have participated in groundbreaking labor-management partnerships, working together with employers to resolve issues in the workplace and in the relevant industry more broadly. Both Unions can boast excellent working relationships with several major companies.

IWW will do.

[chimx]

Top down organizing is a tactic used by union organizers that is generally pretty common, especially in construction trades.

[Lamanov]

Top down organizing is a tactic used by union organizers that is generally pretty common, especially in construction trades.

Top-down is not a tactic. Direct action, sabotage, contracts, negotiation, funds, bombing, etc, are a tactic.

Top-down is a structure. A hierarchical one. It means building bureaucratic mediation. It means suffocating class struggle.

And that's a bad thing.

[chimx]

No, it refers to a specific tactic:


Organizers[/url] employ various methods to secure recognition by the employer as being a legitimate union, the ultimate goal being a collective bargaining agreement. The methods can be classified as being either top-down organizing or bottom-up organizing.[1]

Top-down organizing focuses on persuading management through salesmanship or pressure tactics. The salesmanship may include offering access to resources such as to a well-trained and skilled supply of labor or access to union cartels of contractors. Pressure tactics may include picketing with the intention of embarrassing management or disrupting business, as well as assisting the government in investigating employment law and labor law violations.[2] A strict enforcement of these laws might result in fines and might serve to hurt the violator's chances in a competitive bidding process. Top-down organizing is generally considered easier than bottom-up and is practiced more in the construction industry.[3]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_Organizer#Methodology

[Trystan]

I don't know a thing about Canadian unions, but the IWW seem like good people who could help you out. I was a member last year for a while (did not get involved due to illness), and they have a good program IMO.

But good luck whatever you do.

[Lamanov]

Typical bureaucratic standpoint: it sees organizers on one side giving workers on the other a structure for mediation, while it calls giving hierarchy a "tactic".

[chimx]

It has nothing to do with hierarchy. Did you not read what I quoted? It is about putting pressure on employers to unionize their shops.

[Bilan]

Top down organizing is a tactic used by union organizers that is generally pretty common, especially in construction trades.

Hence why they should be opposed.
Organization has to come from the bottom.
The structures have to be developed through that methodology.

It is not a "tactic". It's a structure.



k, so I work at an independent restaurant and the whole staff is getting fucked over on low pay and little hours.

I want to know how we can start a union of our own.

any help?

First of all, talk with your co-workers about the conditions and short staffing.

Second, there are many pamphlets available on how to organize an autonomous union, but the best way is through practice.
There are comrades on here who have before organized their work place (Organic Revolution, for example, and he posted it a while back in the Practice thread - I relinked it in the Class Struggle Unionists group, so you should be able to access it in there).

Something to consider is: How are you going to approach the issue?

A first way is to first, discuss the idea of a union with co workers (A good line to take is that set out by anarcho-syndicalists: absent of hierarchy, and leadership; delegated spokes when necessary, etc) to ensure the obstruction of any bureaucracy, and to ensure that the demands of you and your coworkers are met.

In so far as short staffing, do they have a weekly roster, or is it a set roster?

With underpaying, you may or may not to try and organize a strike. But its important not to jump straight into that, lest only half the crew jumps in.

Note: Jump into the Class Struggle Unionists group, pamphlets of use are in there.

[Hiero]

I think you should take note of what Chimx is saying. A common slogan here "workers united will never be defeated".

It would be self defeat to purposely isolate yourself for the sake of ideology.

[Lamanov]

It would be self defeat to purposely isolate yourself for the sake of ideology.

Who said anything about ideology?

[communard resolution]

its understandable though.

I dont know about the US but certainly here in the UK the leftist sentiment of many unions have been diminished by infiltration by ruling party members, reactionary or even fascist agitators. Some shop stewards are little more than unreliable bosses tools in flatcaps.



Yes, especially the PCS (Public and Commercial Services Union). They're best pals with the scumbag management where my partner works, will always side with them against the employees, and they refuse to do anything about basic problems such as insufficient heating at the workplace in wintertime.

To quote the management: "we don't care about people, only about objects" - doesn't seem to bother their friends from the PCS much.

I understand the PCS are affiliated with & backed by the SWP, which is one of the reasons why the SWP can kiss my ass.

EDIT: if anyone knows of a good UK alternative to the PCS, please let me know. Communist or anarchist doesn't make a difference as long as they are competent, not corrupt, and genuinely pro-worker.

(Sorry, I don't mean to hijack this thread, it's just it reminded me of the PCS issue - split it into a separate thread if you wish)

[Lamanov]

EDIT: if anyone knows of a good UK alternative to the PCS, please let me know. Communist or anarchist doesn't make a difference as long as they are competent, not corrupt, and genuinely pro-worker.

IWW-UK (http://www.iww.org.uk/) for organising, Solidarity Federation (http://www.solfed.org.uk/) for propaganda.

[Bilan]

I think you should take note of what Chimx is saying. A common slogan here "workers united will never be defeated".

It would be self defeat to purposely isolate yourself for the sake of ideology.

That line is just shit, and being from Australia, you should know how faulty that politic is due to even the biggest union here being a total load of shit.

Organizing from the bottom up is an important part of struggle, and its important to unite with other workers, but it has to come from below, not from above.

[communard resolution]

That line is just shit, and being from Australia, you should know how faulty that politic is due to even the biggest union here being a total load of shit.

What do you think of the option of being a 'double carder', i.e. join the useless recognized union at one's workplace and join e.g. the IWW at the same time to influence decisions and fellow workers?

[Sloth]

thank you for all your help i appreciate it

the reason i didnt/dont (a little unsure right now) is b/c we'll all have to pay into the union and we dont make much money as it is even if we start to get payed more with the union in the end we'll end up making about the same. (or so i've heard)

[Bilan]

What do you think of the option of being a 'double carder', i.e. join the useless recognized union at one's workplace and join e.g. the IWW at the same time to influence decisions and fellow workers?

Waste of money and time, really.
What purpose does joining the bureaucratic union serve? They wont protect you. At best, they're just taking your money.
The revolutionary union is small,however, and thats a problem. But the only way to change that is to help it grow; and it grows through struggle.

[chimx]

What purpose does joining the bureaucratic union serve? They wont protect you.

Come on now, don't be insulting. People in "bureaucratic unions" are often extremely dedicated to the membership and will put in countless unpaid hours fighting to improve the working conditions of working people. It strikes me that you're using unions as a scapegoat for problems with capitalist production relations.

[YSR]

Sloth: Don't worry about the money. The bad unions care about your dues, the good ones see it as secondary.

As others above have stated: start meeting with your coworkers informally, off of work time, and talking about your problems. I think it's a REALLY good idea to get in touch with the IWW, not even so you can join, but so they can give you some tips on how to organize. One model we use that I think is extremely effective is called AEIOU. It's a model for how to go about organizing, I'll briefly summarize it.

A: Agitate. In situations, one-on-one, two-on-one or something small, start talking to your coworkers about their problems. ***** a little bit and get them to ***** too. Find out who is solid and hates the boss and who is trying to brownnose him.
E: Educate. What it sounds like. Here you might need help from another union. Find out about labor law. Chances are about 9 out of 10 that in an unorganized shop, you boss is breaking the law. Find out how. Teach your coworkers about what you can do to change these things and improve your situation. Look to other examples of successful workplace action. (Remember that a strike, which most people immediately associate with the word "union" is the last resort of the smart worker, not the first.)
I: Innoculate. Once you start working together against the boss, you face risk. You have to be upfront with people. Prepare them for the anti-union and anti-worker things to come. The boss will likely try to intimidate them or even fire people. If people know these things and are prepared to accept them, they become even more solid.
O: Organize. Just like what it sounds. Get something together. If your workplace is too hot, consider walking off the job with coworkers to buy a fan. If your boss gives you inconsistent shifts, get your coworkers together to set up your own shift schedule. If you want breaks and aren't getting any, make sure something is broken every four hours (or whatever) and take 15 minutes off.
U: Union. Union is last because, while the most important, it's already present in the preceding four. In the IWW, we like to say that workers acting together are already a union, whether they have cards or not. If you bring up the word union too early, people will have bad responses. Once you are taking action together you can point out that you already are a union, and that by joining one officially, you can get the solidarity and support of thousands of other workers.

I will put in a plug that I don't think you should call in the business unions for help. Not even for political reasons, but because they will take over your campaign and run it their own way. This happens all the time. And the way that business unions run their campaigns fails an awful lot. So, while the temptations of bringing in "the experts" may be high, remember that "the experts" charge a lot for their services. And I don't just mean dues money.

Solidarity and good luck!

[communard resolution]

Waste of money and time, really.
What purpose does joining the bureaucratic union serve? They wont protect you. At best, they're just taking your money.


As I mentioned before, the PCS is the recognized union where my partner works, and yes, they are absolutely useless even though they are linked to the Socialist Workers Party, and apparently to the Socialist Party too. In fact, they're best pals with the management.

We got in touch with the IWW upon recommendation in this thread, and double carding is what they recommended. The problem is that most of my partner's co-workers are crudely right-wing, so there's no chance of finding 4 other people who would join the IWW straight away, 5 being the minimum amount of members in order to set up a proper IWW branch. The IWW person I spoke to reckons my partner could influence things within the given framework by being a double carder - maybe get more co-workers to join the IWW eventually.

[Joe Hill's Ghost]

As I mentioned before, the PCS is the recognized union where my partner works, and yes, they are absolutely useless even though they are linked to the Socialist Workers Party, and apparently to the Socialist Party too. In fact, they're best pals with the management.

We got in touch with the IWW upon recommendation in this thread, and double carding is what they recommended. The problem is that most of my partner's co-workers are crudely right-wing, so there's no chance of finding 4 other people who would join the IWW straight away, 5 being the minimum amount of members in order to set up a proper IWW branch. The IWW person I spoke to reckons my partner could influence things within the given framework by being a double carder - maybe get more co-workers to join the IWW eventually.

Double carding in the UK is a good idea. The IWW UK is growing quickly and has a good bit of experience with dual card shops. Even if your coworkers are right wing this shouldn't be an issue. The IWW is officially apolitical, it "officially" only cares about matters pertaining to workers. Of course by caring about the working class they become incredibly political, but not in the way your coworkers will understand right away. Point out to them that the IWW isn't affiliated to the Labor party or any other left grouping.

[Charles Xavier]

Big Unions unless your restaurant is large and inexpensive to organize will not help organize you. What you need to do is see what Unions are out there. Depending what proveince you are in to determine what way forward.

First and foremost, is not to talk openly about organizing at work. Secondly, get a group of people at work you can trust, doesn't have to be big, maybe you and 2 others, to get the contact information of other employees, get someone from the outside to organize, leaflet, contact workers and whatnot. If you are exposed the bosses will find some way to let the organizers get fired. If any of these University Academic Trotskyist want to call a big meeting of all the workers tell them to fuck off and by no means show up to the meeting, the company stood pigeons will rat you out. Get in contact with all the various unions, CAW, Steelworkers, UFCW, teamsters and whatnot see what they say talking to their organizing department, see what luck you have. If all else fails contact United Here, not IWW they are just academics.

and don't take for granted that Unions know how to organize, a lot of them don't they haven't organized much of anything for the last 40 years and are mostly riding off the that base which is retiring.

And if its a franchise you are in for one heck of an uphill battle.

[Charles Xavier]

is there a we can just start our own union? i don't want to join with a Local "insert number here"

If you want your boss to fire everyone then yes its pretty possible.

[Pawn Power]

I just found this which might be of use to you; Libcom's guide to organizing at work (http://libcom.org/organise/industrial-action).