Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism Prevention Act

[Big Red]

this bill would basically make us all fair game, its designed as it's name says to classify free thinking radicals as terrorists and further deteroate our constitutional right of dissent. as kucinich (one of only six representatives to vote against it) has described it as the "thought crime bill" definetly worth checking into just type HR 1955 into google should find it fairly easily

[Mala Tha Testa]

as long as we don't "promote an ideology for the purpose of facilitating ideology based violence" i guess we're good, if i'm reading correctly.

edit - but wait, wouldn't a revolution be "ideology based violence"? crap, so we just can't promote our ideologies then:sneaky:

[Red_Dialectics]

Uh, would not "class warfare" and "revolution" fall quite neatly in there in the eyes of the bourgeoise?

[RedAnarchist]

It would only affect our US-based members. This forum is German-based, by the way.

[Red_Dialectics]

Well, as a US based member, I have known about this bill for quite a while now. It would be a very serious problem if it passes the Senate, which as far as I know it has not come up to vote in yet (it hasn't even been scheduled). I believe the name for that one is S 1959. I do think though that in the event of another "attack" or catastrophic even on the scale of 9/11, that this would pass in a heartbeat, as the USA PATRIOT Act did. And the only senator who voted against that ended up dead in a (suspicious) plane crash (Senator Paul Wellstone).

[Big Red]

well in regards to another catosrophic attack theres already a bill that would give the president pretty much unchecked power but as far as this bill goes, its a step in the wrong direction and if passed will only make other, more outragously intrusive bills possible. no it has not been scheduled to the senate I believe lets hope it stays that way.

[Big Red]

basically the problem is that this bill is pretty open to interpretation, and you can count on the powers that be on interpreting it in an even more facist way than origanally concieved i.e more spying powers, more police repression the possibilities are endless and horrifying

[Red_Dialectics]

Yeah, I've been keeping track of these, and even informing people I meet on the street. Directive 51 is the declaration that gives Bush unitary power in the event of a loosely defined "national emergency" which he declares. Congress is not allowed to even investigate the declaration for 6 months afterward. Furthermore, the "security" sections and some others are so classified, that not even the Homeland Security Council in the house of representatives is allowed to view them.
It is important to note that this became law with ZERO debate and ZERO voting, as it is a presidential "Directive" which is basically a declaration by the president that becomes law immediately.

[Lost In Translation]

well in regards to another catosrophic attack theres already a bill that would give the president pretty much unchecked power but as far as this bill goes, its a step in the wrong direction and if passed will only make other, more outragously intrusive bills possible. no it has not been scheduled to the senate I believe lets hope it stays that way.
Indeed, if the Senate approves of it, a lot of us would be toast. But seriously, when they say 'ideology', it really is just us leftists. Nobody else. Pathetic.

[Mala Tha Testa]

Indeed, if the Senate approves of it, a lot of us would be toast. But seriously, when they say 'ideology', it really is just us leftists. Nobody else. Pathetic.

i'm sure they'll fuck with some neo-nazi's and crap, making sure the media exagerates it so it seems they're 'fair'.i'm still just blown away that even those pigs would consider this shit.

[Big Red]

Directive 51 is the declaration that gives Bush unitary power in the event of a loosely defined "national emergency" which he declares. Congress is not allowed to even investigate the declaration for 6 months afterward

in fact many presidents have had this almost identical "directive" including Bill Clinton but the sheer thought of that kind of power, potentially and hypothetically finding itself in Bush's hands, is truly frightening

[Comrade B]

Would this not make being a republican illegal? Republicans believe in killing people who have non-western democracies. They are radical capitalists.

It would also make those crazy apocalypse believing Christians criminals too, being that they believe that they need to remove the Muslims from Israel for the apocalypse to come.

Communism relies on revolution. Our beliefs are easily classified as terrorist under this bill.
Though some of us are reformists and the like, the majority of us support the
a. change of the system by any means
or
b. execution of evil former right wing leaders


Pack your bags! WERE GOING TO GITMO!

[Big Red]

Orange is a good color on me:thumbup:

[Ismail]

including Bill Clinton but the sheer thought of that kind of power, potentially and hypothetically finding itself in Bush's hands, is truly frighteningWhy? You could make the case that Bush is more incompetent, but if revolutionary sentiment appeared in the USA under Clinton, he'd gladly suppress Communists. The only real difference between Clinton's actions in Yugoslavia and Bush's actions in Iraq is that Yugoslavia went well for the administration, Iraq didn't.


Would this not make being a republican illegal? Republicans believe in killing people who have non-western democracies. They are radical capitalists.No, "radical" capitalists are libertarians. Republicans and Democrats are both capitalists. Both cater to different demographics and one party is a bit more corrupt than the other, but that isn't because they're conservatives. (Case in point: Liberal Party of Canada is more corrupt than the Conservatives, and that's a major reason why the Cons won in 2006) Finally, the USA isn't really a democracy. It's more democratic than, say, Sudan, but there are clear limits. Anyone who isn't a mainstream capitalist (although "radical" capitalists are tolerated because their ideas have zero chance of being implemented) is going to have a hard time if they actually get anywhere. This is known as bourgeois democracy.

[Martin Blank]

This bill, and other "anti-terror" legislation, is why the League is a clandestine organization. Better to be safe than sorry.

[Big Red]

the USA isn't really a democracy. It's more democratic than, say, Sudan, but there are clear limits. Anyone who isn't a mainstream capitalist (although "radical" capitalists are tolerated because their ideas have zero chance of being implemented) is going to have a hard time if they actually get anywhere. This is known as bourgeois democracy.

its more of a representative republic, that is we vote for someone to represent us and vote (in theory) for our interest rather than a democracy in which everyone actually votes on every bill.

[loveme4whoiam]

Oct 23, 2007: This bill passed in the House of Representatives by roll call vote. The vote was held under a suspension of the rules to cut debate short and pass the bill, needing a two-thirds majority. The totals were 404 Ayes, 6 Nays, 22 Present/Not Voting. http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h110-1955

If ANYTHING ever needed to be debated and discussed, its this. Utterly disgusted, totally unsurprised. Hope our American brethren can hold strong in the face of this atrocity.

EDIT - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wJsovPRTEM. Watch it NOW. The narrator describes the specific definitions used by in the Bill to describe force - which is separate from violence. These include "Intellectual power of vigor, especially as conveyed in writing or speech", "A capacity for affecting the mind or behaviour... as in the force of logical argument" (emphasis in the document), "A body of persons or other resources organised or available for a certain purpose".

Can you believe that?!!

[Mala Tha Testa]

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h110-1955

If ANYTHING ever needed to be debated and discussed, its this. Utterly disgusted, totally unsurprised. Hope our American brethren can hold strong in the face of this atrocity.

agreed, and this thread really isn't getting a lot of attention, posting-wise at least.

[ashaman1324]

im reading this and it is unbelievable
if they cant prove a person they label a terrorist is a "violent radical" they have even less business nosing through our affairs
"`(3) The Internet has aided in facilitating violent radicalization, ideologically based violence, and the homegrown terrorism process in the United States by providing access to broad and constant streams of terrorist-related propaganda to United States citizens."
i highly reccomend that you read the bill i cant post the url yet... but its at govtrack.com

[freakazoid]

Keep you gear and firearms handy, where in for a long night. And remember, keep your powder dry.

[bcbm]

Oh noes, the government is going to come disappear a bunch of leftists who pose no real threat to it! Panic!

Get over yourselves. The state has always been able to get rid of its enemies, even through legal means and while this should be opposed it does not represent any significant break from government policy for the last 200 years, nor any real threat to you.


as the USA PATRIOT Act did. And the only senator who voted against that ended up dead in a (suspicious) plane crash (Senator Paul Wellstone).

Wellstone voted in favor of that, actually. The only senator to vote no was Russ Feingold, who is alive and well.

[Red_Dialectics]

[QUOTE=Wellstone voted in favor of that, actually. The only senator to vote no was Russ Feingold, who is alive and well.[/QUOTE]

Actually, you are correct. I got the two mixed up. But Wellstone did have a voting record that was quite progressive and would probably not have been in favor of other "heimat security" legislations.

But this bill isn't just another COINTELPRO, this would make those sorts of things openly legal on a mass scale, and if they say someone is a "violent radical", they don't need to prove it. Remember things like the Military Commissions Act.

[freakazoid]

Oh noes, the government is going to come disappear a bunch of leftists who pose no real threat to it! Panic!

Get over yourselves. The state has always been able to get rid of its enemies, even through legal means and while this should be opposed it does not represent any significant break from government policy for the last 200 years, nor any real threat to you.

I remember reading how during the Cold War the .gov had a large list people, I think over 2,000, who it had plans to send to camps just like it did with certain types of foreigners during WW2. Came real close to using it.

That and the .gov does use plain closed cops to try to catch radicals during protests. Here are plain closed cops trying to get protesters to get violent so they can crack down on them in Canada, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCRsj06wT64 The shouting voice overs are annoying, so be warned. Just 2 nights ago on the show Cops they were showing how they used 2 plain closed cops during a protest.