is the concept of money inherently evil?

[534634634265]

is the concept of money an inherently evil concept, since it equates labor and life to a fiat currency? i think money is terrible stuff, like a drug really. people with lots of it tend to do stupid things with it, while those without it tend to do stupid things to get it. that being said, i recognize that without money i would be hard pressed to live in this modern society. thoughts?

[Publius]

Is the idea of trading inherently evil?

[Kwisatz Haderach]

It depends. What do you mean by money? Do you mean anything used for trading in any society, or the specific monetary system of present-day capitalism?

Yes, the specific monetary system of present-day capitalism is evil. But "money", in general, isn't.

[Demogorgon]

I don't like referring to things as evil. And it sounds a bit odd to do so with respect to inanimate objects. I mean obviously the bits of paper and metal we carry around are morally neutral, but the effects of the monetary system are certainly bad.

That is not to say that any monetary system is bad ipso facto. Just that the system (and most previous systems) have been bad. Capitalism in particular causes very nasty effects of the monetary system. Capitalism has gone through a few systems of money incidentally. The emergence of capitalism sort of marked a movement from commodity money to fiduciary money and these days it uses fiat money (a little better than the previous system, but not by much).

Money isn't just going to vanish with the end of capitalism. But we are going to need a much better system.

[TheCultofAbeLincoln]

Of course money's not evil, it's easily one of mankind's greatest inventions.

[revolution inaction]

I think the problems associated with money are actually a result of property, money is just a way to facilitate the exchange of property.

I agree with Demogorgon that it it makes no sense to talk of things being evil, though property leads to much evil.

I think that any society that retains property will tend to develop into capitalism, though there are some models for non capitalist forms of society which retain property and money.

[apathy maybe]

Define evil.

Money is not necessarily a bad thing, however, it tends to be in all the forms that I can recall it being used.

[Schrödinger's Cat]

It's certainly not the "greatest good," as the reactionary Ayn Rand liked to believe.

[pusher robot]

It's certainly not the "greatest good," as the reactionary Ayn Rand liked to believe.

"Root of all good," not necessarily the greatest good.

At the risk of being lambasted for its source, I think this quote is apropos:

"But money is only a tool. It will take you wherever you wish, but it will not replace you as the driver. It will give you the means for the satisfaction of your desires, but it will not provide you with desires."

[534634634265]

i just feel that money as we currently experience it today is a bad thing.
money facilitates power, as those with money have power over those without.
money today as a fiat currency is more problematic, as in the past we at least had something we could trade it for. granted, gold has no intrinsic value either, but still...
i feel like maybe if money isn't evil then something about it inspires people to act in evil ways.

[Schrödinger's Cat]

i just feel that money as we currently experience it today is a bad thing.
money facilitates power, as those with money have power over those without.
money today as a fiat currency is more problematic, as in the past we at least had something we could trade it for. granted, gold has no intrinsic value either, but still...
i feel like maybe if money isn't evil then something about it inspires people to act in evil ways.

Money as it currently exists is only a different religion, a faith-based currency where the government says it's worth your labor.

Not to mention money can be made from land ownership, which is an authoritarian act in itself.

[revolution inaction]

i just feel that money as we currently experience it today is a bad thing.
money facilitates power, as those with money have power over those without.
money today as a fiat currency is more problematic, as in the past we at least had something we could trade it for. granted, gold has no intrinsic value either, but still...

Money now can be traded for something, this happens every time you buy something :)
The value of money comes, and has always come from the fact that it is accepted as a unit of exchange.

[revolution inaction]

The value of a unit of money is:
(total value of commodities available for exchange)/(total amount of money)

[Jazzratt]

No. Money is just one of the trappings of a horrible system.

[Kami]

nothing is "inherently evil".

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

The dichotomy of "good" and "evil" is the artefact of outdated moralism. Existance is painted in shades of grey, not black and white... although some parts may be painted in extremely light or dark hues.

No, money is not evil.

[Bud Struggle]

"But money is only a tool. It will take you wherever you wish, but it will not replace you as the driver. It will give you the means for the satisfaction of your desires, but it will not provide you with desires."

I agree with this. It's just a tool--no reason to get excited over it. It's really nothing at all. It's nice to have, it coesn't bring happiness or anything similar.

It's just a tool and a means to power if that is something you want.

[Baconator]

is the concept of money an inherently evil concept, since it equates labor and life to a fiat currency? i think money is terrible stuff, like a drug really. people with lots of it tend to do stupid things with it, while those without it tend to do stupid things to get it. that being said, i recognize that without money i would be hard pressed to live in this modern society. thoughts?

Is the concept of a newspaper inherently evil?
If it isn't, why would that be the case? Is not money just a commodity like anything else? Are commodities moral agents?

[Baconator]

The dichotomy of "good" and "evil" is the artefact of outdated moralism. Existance is painted in shades of grey, not black and white... although some parts may be painted in extremely light or dark hues.

No, money is not evil.

I didn't know existence itself was a question of morality. :rolleyes:

[534634634265]

these are good replies!
im glad to get feedback from the CC, as opposed to random aggression.
i guess my problem isn't with money then, but the exchange it facilitates. and maybe "evil" was an extreme word choice. i dunno though, the shit that gets done for money is sickening. the shit that gets done WITH money is worse...
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/technology/2008/08/iphone-i-am-ric.html

[pusher robot]

these are good replies!
im glad to get feedback from the CC, as opposed to random aggression.
i guess my problem isn't with money then, but the exchange it facilitates. and maybe "evil" was an extreme word choice. i dunno though, the shit that gets done for money is sickening. the shit that gets done WITH money is worse...
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/technology/2008/08/iphone-i-am-ric.html

It's not money but people who are to blame. All money does is empower people to get what they want, whether or not "what they want" is good or evil.

[Djehuti]

is the concept of money an inherently evil concept, since it equates labor and life to a fiat currency? i think money is terrible stuff, like a drug really. people with lots of it tend to do stupid things with it, while those without it tend to do stupid things to get it. that being said, i recognize that without money i would be hard pressed to live in this modern society. thoughts?

Money is not a problem, the relations behind are.
Money is a universal value equivalent, so you don't have to trade commodities for other commodities.

In a socialist society money would be... paper.

[Baconator]

these are good replies!
im glad to get feedback from the CC, as opposed to random aggression.
i guess my problem isn't with money then, but the exchange it facilitates. and maybe "evil" was an extreme word choice. i dunno though, the shit that gets done for money is sickening. the shit that gets done WITH money is worse...
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/technology/2008/08/iphone-i-am-ric.html

Are you then against trading in general or do you favor bartering? Is money a means or an end? If it is a means then what is the end?

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

I didn't know existence itself was a question of morality. :rolleyes:

It isn't, that was my point. In a grey universe, black-and-white morality has the utility of a chocolate teapot.

[Baconator]

It isn't, that was my point. In a grey universe, black-and-white morality has the utility of a chocolate teapot.

Morality is only valid when one has the option to choose morality. Of course there is no black and white morality, there is just moral, amoral , and immoral.
Living and sentient creatures with the capacity to choose are always subject to morality or more specifically , right and wrong actions.

For human beings , moral propositions must be examined through an objective methodology to determine the truth value of whether something is truly right or wrong or just complying to some subjective whim. I think thats pretty important and a rational, logical , and empirical methodology based on universal preferences can show us truth and falsehood in moral propositions.

[revolution inaction]

Are you then against trading in general or do you favor bartering? Is money a means or an end? If it is a means then what is the end?
Barter is trade though, money makes trade easier but its not essential for trade to occur.

[ships-cat]

I'm awfully sorry .. but NO... you are all wrong.

Crackedlogic ... to answer your original question... ALL MONEY IS EVIL.

Possession of it rots your soul.

But there is an ANSWER.

Ships-cat... through the Church of the Salty Kipper, can give you salvation....

MONEY IS EVIL... but you can receive REDEMPTION.

Merely gather all that SALT OF SATAN together, and post it to SHIPS_CAT, the Senior Vicker of the Church of Redeeming Money from Suckers, PO Box 666.

Bless you all :laugh:


Meow Purr

(umm.. for the benefit of Americans visiting this forum... the above is a satirical joke. Do NOT send money. ) :p

[Baconator]

Barter is trade though, money makes trade easier but its not essential for trade to occur.

Indeed. I do think it would be extremely difficult for modern societies to prosper without an indirect medium of exchange.

[534634634265]

I'm awfully sorry .. but NO... you are all wrong.

Crackedlogic ... to answer your original question... ALL MONEY IS EVIL.

Possession of it rots your soul.

But there is an ANSWER.

Ships-cat... through the Church of the Salty Kipper, can give you salvation....

MONEY IS EVIL... but you can receive REDEMPTION.

Merely gather all that SALT OF SATAN together, and post it to SHIPS_CAT, the Senior Vicker of the Church of Redeeming Money from Suckers, PO Box 666.

Bless you all :laugh:


Meow Purr

(umm.. for the benefit of Americans visiting this forum... the above is a satirical joke. Do NOT send money. ) :p
thats cute. checks in the mail, i promise.:rolleyes:

[RGacky3]

I think in a Communist society, with a true communist economy, money would not be needed, since value would not need to be measured because there would be no marketplace, only production based on needs and distribution based on needs, which are measured by consensus, basically.

But money in a Capitalist of Socialist system seams nessesary. The problem is'nt money, seeing as money is a representation of market value, the problem is whats behind it, i.e. exploitation, you can have a true socialist system with a form of money, which would be just an indirect medium for gaining goods, but it would be vastly different in a socialist system.

In the Capitalist system, especially after WW2 when Capitalists became more and more powerful, and the system became more and more huge, money has become less of a means to an end, and more of an end to itslef, this is because in Capitalism, money = power, and it can be made through power. In that sense its almost like a drug, the same way any power system is.


It isn't, that was my point. In a grey universe, black-and-white morality has the utility of a chocolate teapot.

Throw out morality and this whole forum is a waste of space and time, morality is subjective yes, but for it to be respected it must be defended based on reason and logic, otherwise it will be considered irrelivent by anyone else.

The consept of good and evil is just a part of morality, and in my opinion not a very important part, saying something is evil is kind of rediculous, because evil is usually defined as someone deliberately going against what they consider moral for selfish gains, and a thing can't do that, most people won't even do that.