The glorious product of communism

[Liberty Lover]

DEATH BY COMMUNISM/SOCIALISM

Country/ Death Count

Union of Soviet SOCIALIST Republics (USSR) 20,000,000
People's Republic of China 65,000,000
Vietnam 1,000,000
North Korea 2,000,000
Cambodia 2,000,000
Eastern Europe (thanks to GDR) 1,000,000
Latin America 150,000
Africa 1,700,000
Afghanistan 1,500,000
Cuba 15,000

[ComradeJunichi]

This again?

[Xvall]

This has been brought up in this fourm before. It has been refuted. Most of those numbers are probably made up; even if they were true, Capitalism as killed FAR more. That is sourceless; anyone can through around names and numbers. According to your statistics; they should have escavated mass graves in Russia and China. I have seen nothing of the sort. I can easilly point out how corporations funded Hitler; and blame Capitalism for the Second World War.

[Pete]

Thank America for:
Vietnam 1,000,000
Latin America 150,000
Cuba 15,000
Hiroshima/Naygaski (spelling) 500 000
Iraq 1 000 000 +

Capitalism for:
Third Riech 6 000 000 +
Indonesia 100 000+
Africa 1 000 000 + SLAVERY
and many many more...

[abstractmentality]

Quote: from Liberty Lover on 9:15 pm on Feb. 22, 2003
DEATH BY COMMUNISM/SOCIALISM

Country/ Death Count

Latin America 150,000

just curious as to where this number came from.

[Liberty Lover]

"blame Capitalism for the Second World War."

I think it would be more appropriate to blame Nazism...and mybe appeasement

"just curious as to where this number came from."

The Black Book of Communism: Crimes, Terror, Repression
by Stephane Courtois

[synthesis]

You place far too much faith in the U.S. with your numbers, Pete :biggrin:

Try these on for size.

U.S.

Vietnam: 3,500,000
Cambodia: 2,000,000
Laos: 500,000
East Timor: 200,000
Palestine: 100,000
Afghanistan: 1,000,000 dead, 3,000,000 disabled
Indonesia: 1,000,000
Korea: 3,000,000
Iraq: 2,000,000
Germany: 180,000
Japan: 670,000

source (http://free.freespeech.org/americanstateterrorism/ChronologyofTerror.html)

Those are the really big ones; I don't particularly want to go through all the minor ones like Greece, Chile, and so on because they're not especially useful in an argument of numbers.

Union of Soviet SOCIALIST Republics (USSR) 20,000,000

Bullshit.

[Liberty Lover]

So its America's fault Japan, Germany, Iraq, and North Korea tried to take over their neighbours or the world?

"Union of Soviet SOCIALIST Republics (USSR) 20,000,000

Bullshit."

This is true...mostly during the reign of Stalin...in the salt mines.

[synthesis]

So its America's fault Japan, Germany, Iraq, and North Korea tried to take over their neighbours or the world?

What specious, hypocritical logic. The numbers I gave were of innocent civilians. I suppose it was their fault that their governments took the actions they took? I suppose that the sixty-seven thousand innocents burned alive in the Tokyo firebombing were each responsible for Pearl Harbor?

This is true...mostly during the reign of Stalin...in the salt mines.

Bullshit, I say! Back it up.

I almost forgot to add...

The 65,000,000 you attributed to China can be more correctly attributed to Capitalism, because most happened once China was becoming more capitalist.

[Liberty Lover]

"The 65,000,000 you attributed to China can be more correctly attributed to Capitalism, because most happened once China was becoming more capitalist."

Actually most happened during the cultural revolution...started by Mao in 1966

"Bullshit, I say! Back it up."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/from_our_...dent/349686.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/from_our_own_correspondent/349686.stm)

[Anonymous]

"Vietnam: 3,500,000"

Myth: American Atrocities Were Widespread

"If they were they were covered up with extraordinary skill and precision. Only two documented cases of War Crimes can be attributed to American Military personnel. One was the senseless slaughter of civilians in March 1968 at the village of My Lai by the 1st platoon of Charlie Company, 1st Battalion 20th Infantry, 11th Light Infantry Brigade, 23rd Infantry Division (Americal). The other was the murder of 16 noncombatant women and children by five U.S. Marines of Bravo Company, 1st Battalion, 7th Marines, 1st Marine Division, at a village named Son Thang-4, southwest of Danang, on 19 February 1970. In both cases there was a court martial, and in both cases the accused were found guilty.

In the case of Lt. William Calley, President Nixon stepped in and pardoned him after he had spent three years under house arrest. Why Nixon did this is unknown, but it is beyond belief that he would do such a thing. For the end result is a slap in the face to every Vietnam Veteran who did their job and served with honor by adhering to the Rules of Land Warfare of the 1949 Geneva Convention which set the rules of engagement and expressly forbid the type of behavior exhibited by Calley and the thugs he commanded. They were not soldiers. They were thugs.

But while these egregious crimes have been trotted out at every opportunity by the anti-war movement, very little attention was paid to the horrendous atrocities committed by the North Vietnamese Army and the Viet Cong on their own people. One of the end results of the 1968 Tet offensive was the deliberate roundup and murder of as many as 5,000 South Vietnamese civilians--doctors, teachers, lawyers, businessmen--by the NVA/VC during the periods that they held territory. The most widespread atrocities occurred in the Imperial city of Hue. There alone the Communists killed over 3,000 South Vietnamese. This behavior was not widely reported by the press, and either ignored by the anti-war movement at best, or justified by them as necessary in a socialist revolution.

Additionally, not much of a fuss has been made over the intentional murder of American civilians (including missionaries and USAID workers) captured and murdered by the North Vietnamese. U.S. POWs did not fair any better. Those that were not murdered were systematically tortured by the North Vietnamese. Although these atrocities qualify as war crimes under the Geneva Convention, the lunatic fringe of the radical left condones those acts as "justifiable"."

http://www.rjsmith.com/war_myth.html

[CheViveToday]

Liberty Lover, even if those numbers on the USSR are true [which is doubtful], they can mostly be attributed to Stalin, as you pointed out. The majority of us here have denounced Stalinism. Also, last time I checked, Cuba was part of Latin America. Just thought I'd let you know.

[synthesis]

I checked out your link. It merely mentions that "up to 20 million" died, with no source, then moves on to descriptions of gulags and such.

Read this: Lies concerning the history of the Soviet Union (http://www.geocities.com/redcomrades/lies.html)

As for Mao... read this:

http://www.etext.org/Politics/MIM/wim/mythsofmao.html


Dark Capitalist, what does that have to do with anything? I could go through and refute some of his bullshit, but it doesn't even matter. The fact is that the article you posted is completely irrelevant and does not disprove my number.

[Liberty Lover]

Moaist International Movement...LOL. And of course they are going to provide an accurate account of the Cultural Revolution.

I get my info from history books intent on reporting the facts. Not from opinionated articles like those you have provided.

[Sol]

Dark Capitalist, that's bullshit. I two uncles and a grandfather (who was an officer) who were in the 'Nam. Civilians were fair game. 'Specially in free fire zones.

And LL, what are you trying to prove with this thread? We all know what Stalinism/ Maoism means- death and oppression. No one's advocating that. It's like saying the capitalist US is the same thing as the capitalist Reich.

And besides, all these numbers are dwarfed in comparison with the US death toll ALONE. Count up only the number of Native Americans, Blacks, and Mexicans butchered since 1530 or so and see what you get.

This argument is tired and proves nothing. And I've read that book- it points out absolutely NO examples of SOCIALIST nations committing atrocities.

[synthesis]

I get my info from history books intent on reporting the facts. Not from opinionated articles like those you have provided.

Convenient way for you to dismiss perfectly valid rebuttals to your inane statistics.

[Liberty Lover]

"And LL, what are you trying to prove with this thread? We all know what Stalinism/ Maoism means- death and oppression. No one's advocating that. It's like saying the capitalist US is the same thing as the capitalist Reich."

DyerMaker seems to be a big fan.

"Count up only the number of Native Americans, Blacks, and Mexicans butchered since 1530 or so and see what you get."

LOL. Well why don't we go and sanction the mongols for invading Russia in the 13th century.

[Cassius Clay]

''DEATH BY COMMUNISM/SOCIALISM

Country/ Death Count''

I ask you 'Liberty Lover' where you get the below rubbish from, this has been proven to be rubbish and yet you post it? Stop reading Robert Conquest and atleast try to be objective.

''Union of Soviet SOCIALIST Republics (USSR) 20,000,000''

No, 799,445 people died in the USSR's prisons from the early 1930's to 1953, for all reasons including execution. Most were infact criminalls who would of been punished in any society, to call them 'victims' is disgusting. If you go to the RedComrades site you will also see that a very important reason behind alot of deaths was the lack of modern medicines.

Note, capital punishment was abolished for five years under Stalin. Also note that the U$ has three million more people in prison today than the USSR ever had.


''People's Republic of China 65,000,000''

Yet the population increased from 600 million to over a billion in Mao's time. The GLF and Cultural Revolution were ultra-leftist mistakes, but no way did they cause the above death toll.

''Vietnam 1,000,000''

All I'm aware of is three million Vietnamese killed through terror bombing, atrocities etc, etc. Stop watching Rambo, where did you get this from? They said the same thing about the USSR in the 1980's this has been proven to be rubbish and lies.

''North Korea 2,000,000''

So it's a government's entire fault that they are struck by a series of natural and national diaster's after the fall of their allies throughout the world? Ofcourse it isn't, and this figure is from where CNN?

''Cambodia 2,000,000''

Oh good one, the Khmer Rouge Communists? Tell me something who was it who liberated the Cambodian people from the tyrant Pol Pot? Sure as hell wasn't Uncle Sam, no it was the NVA and what did the U$ do, oh yeah 'punish' the Vietnamese with a decade of sanctions and forced econmic isolation.

Not only that but they funded the remant's of the KR through allies in Thailand and Capitalist China. Who was it that demanded the KR keep it's seat at the UN? Why is it that the leaders of the KR have never been bought to trial, because as one said 'We will shock the world' in light of the knowledge they have of the U$ aiding them.

Also does it not strike you as odd that in Cambodia there is this thing called evidence that millions were killed, stuff that you can't find in the rest of the example's you give.

''Eastern Europe (thanks to GDR) 1,000,000''

LOL, get real. Where did you read this? In Albania Ronald Reagen would have you belief one third of the population was in jail (which is one million), turns out there were something like 800. As for the GDR, Honecker was bought to trial in the early 90's. Immediantly the case collapsed.

''Latin America 150,000''

Funny the only places I see where women carry portraits of their missing brothers, husbands and father's, the so called 'Dissapered' is in the Capitalist regimes of Argentina, Salvador, Chile etc. Certainly it was never Communists who raped and killed American nuns and murdered the clergy.

''Africa 1,700,000''

What regime in Africa was Marxist? Anyway I'm aware of the countless victims of Aparthied South Africa and various African 'Strong men', Jose Savimba was funded by the CIA. Nuff said.

''Afghanistan 1,500,000''

That's right, who could forget the glourious 'Solidiers of God' and 'Freedom fighters' Mujahdeen fighting against those athiest Reds. Remember that? That's from the same people who told you the above figure.

''Cuba 15,000''

Why because the Miami Herald said so? The NYT reported in 1918 that the evil Reds had natonalised every Russian women into prosititution, Reagen said in the 80's that there were ten million political prisoners in the USSR, yet they all disappered in 1991?

Okay so your figures right, let me just ask how many people have died in the U$ prison system since 1959?

[abstractmentality]

Quote: from Liberty Lover on 9:53 pm on Feb. 22, 2003
The Black Book of Communism: Crimes, Terror, Repression
by Stephane Courtois


if you wouldnt mind, could you tell me where these deaths are from, not just the title of the book.

[Xvall]

I think it would be more appropriate to blame Nazism...and mybe appeasement

I am using this as an example. What that site has done, is taken 'estimates' of the amount of people that died (Regardless of reason) in socialistic revolutions and regimes. I can do the same with capitalism. Of course I'm not going to blame Capitalism for World War Two; but if you think it is a good idea to say that Communicm kills people (Communism is an ideology, it can not kill) then you are wrong. I can easilly point out how 'Capitalism' has killed people as well; from Poverty in Indonesia to the times of Leopold The Second. He was a very greedy man who loved capital. If you are going to say that communism killed millions of people; I will use the exact same logic to deduce that capitalism killed even more.

[thursday night]

Those numbers are rubbish.

[Mazdak]

Funny. The US was willing to ally itself with the Khmer Rouge however US supporters love to use Kampuchea as an example of how evil communism is.

The only "communist" country the United States ever supported was also by far the worst.

And Pete, your statistics on nazi germany sicken me. WHEN WILL IT OCCUR TO YOU PEOPLE THAT THE JEWS WERENT THE ONLY ONES KILLED IN THE THIRD REICH?!?!?!?! What about the 8 million slavs, communists, homosexuals disabled and other "undesirables?"

[Uhuru na Umoja]

I think we are taking may of these numbers out of context. It is easy to compare numbers killed, but what is more significant is what proportion of the population was killed. As for you capitlists... look to imperialism (which as Lenin has pointed out is the 'highest form of capitalism'). In Namibia, for example, German colonisation, encouraged by the desire for new markets (as illustrated in Hobson's Psychology of Jingoism), caused the death of over a hundred thousand. Now that doesn't sound like much initially. However, when you take into account that this constitutes more than 3/4 of all the indigenous population, this becomes far worse than the deaths caused by ANY communist regime.

[Pete]

"And Pete, your statistics on nazi germany sicken me. WHEN WILL IT OCCUR TO YOU PEOPLE THAT THE JEWS WERENT THE ONLY ONES KILLED IN THE THIRD REICH?!?!?!?! What about the 8 million slavs, communists, homosexuals disabled and other "undesirables?" "

I wasn't looking at any group in particular, just taking the lowest overall number that I have heard.

[Mazdak]

Another thing, in my humble opinion, and i hope some agree with me, but it isnt how many die, but why they die. 1 million serial killers arent worth 1 innocent's life.

If one government had over 10 million murderers executed it would still be a better government than the government that executed 1 innocent knowingly.

[Pete]

That is a good point Mazduck (don't ask why I call you that because I don't know!)

Fairwell unitl next time I must pee.

[Cassius Clay]

Yeah I would agree with the above Mazdak.

On NaZi Germany and the Holocaust. This was Capitalism at it's finest, FACT. A few weeks ago I provided Capitalist Imperial (who then didn't respond) with a list of CAPITALIST COMPANY'S and manufactorers which set up, ran and made a tidy profit from the death camp system.

To blame WW2 on Capitalism would be entirely correct, like it would to blame Capitalism for WW1.

'The development of world capitalism proceeds not in the path of smooth and even progress but through crisis and the catastrophes of war'

Joseph Stalin 1946.

[Umoja]

Wanna talk about Capitalism, the one million killed in Africa is nothing. The Slave trade, killed more people then it enslaved and that number is well over 5 million, I've heard estimates that the total number of people taken from Africa or killed by the slave trade was over 50,000,000 and nearly 2/3 of them died. That's an effect of Capitalism right there.

[Mazdak]

I dont mean to play devils advocate but slavery has existed since the beginning of human history. Slavery is not a capitalist phenomena. Feudal Europe had slaves as did Imperial Rome. Slavery was simply not brought down quickly by capitalist nations.

[Saint-Just]

'So its America's fault Japan, Germany, Iraq, and North Korea tried to take over their neighbours or the world?'

Liberty Lover... What country is this you say the DPRK tried to take over. Their, neighbours.... China? Russia?
How is it invasion if the Koreans try to drive a foreign imperialist occupant out of their country?

The U.S. built of military in the south from 1945, claiming it needed to cleanse the south from the last of the Japanese colonialists. The U.S. occupied half of a foreign country. They then incited a war to further their interests in halting the expansion of socialism in the far east. The government of the DPRK is and was a legitimate Korean government, where as the south's regime from 1945 was a puppet regime of the U.S. The Korean people have a right to govern themselves and not governed by a big foreign power. It was and is stil necessary for the illegal U.S. occupation to be removed from south. Otherwise Korea wil never be fully idependant.

To those non-Marxist-Leninist members of this forum: In a book by I.F. Stone the planning for hostilities from Rhee and Truman can be seen. This book, which elucidates the devious planning of MacArthur and co., according to Che Geuvara:
'U.S. embassy in Mexico spent precious taxpayer dollars buying up all copies of this book in 1952'

Furthermore, the U.S. conduct in this war was beyond reason;
'The U.S. Navy shelled the…coastal city of Wonsan twenty-four hours a day uninterruptedly for 861 days…Napalm …was being dropped ceaselessly on villages throughout the North for three years…leaving nothing of life behind.” U.S. troops and their allies under “the UN flag” murdered tens of thousands of civilians. The Rhee regime tortured and executed a vast number of opponents on the grounds that they were “Communists.” (A decade or so after this horrendous war, Syngman Rhee himself was overthrown in a popular uprising by the people of South Korea'

[noon]

mazdak,
true, slavery preceeded capitalism, and even modernity. but umoja stated that the slave trade, not simply slavery, was a capitalist venture.

i don't think it is unreasonable to assert that the mass exchange of african men and woman for money was accelorated by capitalism.

[Sol]

Quote:


"Count up only the number of Native Americans, Blacks, and Mexicans butchered since 1530 or so and see what you get."

LOL. Well why don't we go and sanction the mongols for invading Russia in the 13th century.



My point was that white settlers/ US gov't. has butchered tens of millions more innocents than Soviet Russia. I'm not flippantly exaggerating either. Tens of millions.

I still don't see what you're trying to prove. No one here is advocating establishing a Stalinist regime. Well, 'cept Mazdak, but he's nuts. :)

[Liberty Lover]

"I checked out your link. It merely mentions that "up to 20 million" died, with no source, then moves on to descriptions of gulags and such."

Sorry...here are some better ones

http://www.russianet.ru/~oldrn/history/the_war.html

http://www.jsonline.com/enter/books/review...jul02/61788.asp (http://www.jsonline.com/enter/books/reviews/jul02/61788.asp)

http://www.citypaper.com/2002-09-04/imprint.html

"Another thing, in my humble opinion, and i hope some agree with me, but it isnt how many die, but why they die. 1 million serial killers arent worth 1 innocent's life.

If one government had over 10 million murderers executed it would still be a better government than the government that executed 1 innocent knowingly."

Maybe so but the millions that died uder Stalin and Mao were killed because they had views contrary to those of their government.

[Umoja]

Yeah, I meant the slave trade Mazdak. Older forms of Slavery weren't so based on money. There are accounts of how short slave traders lives were because of disease so they'd try to be as brutal as possible so they could make as much profit as possible before they died, the concept of that is tottally beyond me.

[Cassius Clay]

Liberty lover do you actually take those links seriesly?

The first one didn't work, but the other two did. They embrace a Nazi in Alexander Soljenitsyn and Robert Conquest who officially worked for the MI6 disinformation department.

Do you seriesly expect me to believe that a group of independent scientists are capable of finding the remain's of a 30,000 year old Elephant but somehow the current Russian government with the backing of the UN is not capable of finding the remain's of a few thousand of these 20 million dead bodies which are barely 50 years old?

Oh let me guess it's all those western intellectuals who were also responsible for 'Stalin's genocide' that don't want to reveal the truth. Can you not see the Fascist wet dream going on in those links?

In those sources it often compares the victims of Stalin to those that died in Hitler's Holocaust, good propaganda tactic. Although it admits Nazism was worse, but what is Nazism, it is Capitalism at it's finest. Anyway tell me how many Jews mourned Hitler's death? None, yet tens of millions of the people who lived under Stalin mourned his death, not only that but when he was attacked alot of people, Georgians and Ukrainians were willing to fight to protect his name.

Some hated dictator you got there? I will also ask why if life was so bad under Stalin why it is that the generation who grew up in the 1930's,40's and 50's are now the key voters for the Communists in present day Russia and throughout the former Soviet Union?

BTW what do you know of the legal process in the Soviet Union? Stalin was General secretary of the Communist Party, not a cop. If he had walked up to the NKVD and demanded they arrest the following people for no reason they would laugh in his face.

[Liberty Lover]

Cassius Clay,
Your not going to listen to me but maybe you'll listen to a Krushchev.

Secret Speech Delivered by First Party Secretary at the Twentieth Party Congress of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union, February 25, 1956

[]

Comrades, in the report of the Central Committee of the party at the 20th Congress, in a number of speeches by delegates to the Congress, as also formerly during the plenary CC/CPSU sessions, quite a lot has been said about the cult of the individual and about its harmful consequences. . . .

Allow me first of all to remind you bow severely the classics of Marxism-Leninism denounced every manifestation of the cult of the individual. In a letter to the German political worker, Wilhelm Bloss, Marx stated: "From my antipathy to any cult of the individual, I never made public during the existence of the International the numerous addresses from various countries which recognized my merits and which annoyed me. I did not even reply to them, except sometimes to rebuke their authors. Engels and I first joined the secret society of Communists on the condition that everything making for superstitious worship of authority would be deleted from its statute. . . .

The great modesty of the genius of the revolution, Vladimir Ilyich Lenin, is known. Lenin had always stressed the role of the people as the creator of history, the directing and organizational role of the party as a living and creative organism, and also the role of the central committee.

Marxism does not negate the role of the leaders of the workers' class in directing the revolutionary liberation movement.

While ascribing great importance to the role of the leaders and organizers of the masses, Lenin at the same time mercilessly stigmatized every manifestation of the cult of the individual, inexorably combated the foreign-to-Marxism views about a "hero" and a "crowd" and countered all efforts to oppose a "hero" to the masses and to the people.

Lenin taught that the party's strength depends on its indissoluble unity with the masses, on the fact that behind the party follow the people - workers, peasants and intelligentsia. "Only lie will win and retain the power," said Lenin, "who believes in the people, who submerges himself in the fountain of the living creativeness of the people.". . .

During Lenin's life the central committee of the party- was a real expression of collective leadership of the party and of the Nation. Being a militant Marxist-revolutionist, always unyielding in matters of principle, Lenin never imposed by force his views upon his coworkers. He tried to convince; he patiently explained his opinions to others. Lenin always diligently observed that the norms of party life were realized, that the party statute was enforced, that the party congresses and the plenary sessions of the central committee took place at the proper intervals.

In addition to the great accomplishments of V. I. Lenin for the victory of the working class and of the working peasants, for the victory of our party and for the application of the ideas of scientific communism to life, his acute mind expressed itself also in this that lie detected in Stalin in time those negative characteristics which resulted later in grave consequences. Fearing the future fate of the party and of the Soviet nation, V.I. Lenin made a completely correct characterization of Stalin, pointing out that it was necessary to consider the question of transferring Stalin from the position of Secretarv General because of the fact that Stalin is excessively rude, that he does not have a proper attitude toward his comrades, that lie is capricious, and abuses his power. . . .

Vladimir Ilyich said: "Stalin is excessively rude, and this defect, which can be freely tolerated in our midst and in contacts among us Communists, becomes a defect which cannot be tolerated in one holding the position of the Secretary General. Because of this, I propose that the comrades consider the method by which Stalin would be removed from this position and by which another man would be selected for it, a man, who above all , would differ from Stalin in only one quality, namely, greater tolerance, greater loyalty, greater kindness, and more considerate attitude toward the comrades, a less capricious temper, etc.".

As later events have proven, Lenin's anxiety was justified; in the first period after Lenin's death Stalin still paid attention to his (i.e., Lenin's) advice, but, later be began to disregard the serious admonitions of Vladimir Ilyich.

When we analyze the practice of Stalin in regard to the direction of the party and of the country, when we pause to consider everything which Stalin perpetrated, we must be convinced that Lenin's fears were justified. The negative characteristics of Stalin, which, in Lenin's time, were on1v incipient, transformed themselves during the last years into a grave abuse o f power by Stalin, which caused untold harm to our party. . . .

Stalin acted not through persuasion, explanation, and patient cooperation with people, but by imposing his concepts and demanding absolute submission to his opinion. Whoever opposed this concept or tried to prove his viewpoint, and the correctness of his position-was doomed to removal from the leading collective and to subsequent moral and physical annihilation. This was especially true during the period following the 17th party congress, when many prominent party leaders and rank-and-file party workers, honest and dedicated to the cause of communism, fell victim to Stalin's despotism. . . .

Stalin originated the concept enemy of the people. This term automatically rendered it unnecessary that the ideological errors of a man or men engaged in a controversy be proven; this term made possible the usage of the most cruel repression, violating all norms of revolutionary legality, against anyone who in any way disagreed with Stalin, against those who were only suspected of hostile intent, against those who had bad reputations. This concept, enemy of the people, actually eliminated the possibility of any kind of ideological fight or the making of one's views known on this or that issue, even those of a practical character. In the main, and in actuality, the only proof of guilt used, against all norms of current legal science, was the confession of the accused himself, and, as subsequent probing proved, confessions were acquired through physical pressures against the accused. . . .

Lenin used severe methods only in the most necessary cases, when the exploiting classes were still in existence and were vigorously opposing the revolution, when the struggle for survival was decidedly assuming the sharpest forms, even including a civil war.

Stalin, on the other hand, used extreme methods and mass repressions at a time when the revolution was already victorious, when the Soviet state was strengthened, when the exploiting classes were already liquidated, and Socialist relations were rooted solidly in all phases of national economy, when our party was politically consolidated and had strengthened itself both numerically and ideologically. It is clear that here Stalin showed in a whole series of cases his intolerance, his brutality, and his abuse of power. Instead of proving his political correctness and mobilizing the masses, he often chose the path of repression and physical annihilation, not only against actual enemies, but also against individuals who had not committed any crimes against the party and the Soviet Government. Here we see no wisdom but only a demonstration of the brutal force which had once so alarmed V.I Lenin. . . .

Considering the question of the cult of an individual we must first of all show everyone what harm this caused to the interests of our party. . . .

In practice Stalin ignored the norms of party life and trampled on the Leninist principle of collective party leadership.

Stalin's willfulness vis-a-vis the party and its central committee became fully evident after the 17th party congress, which took place in 1934. . . .

It was determined that of the 139 members and candidates of the party's Central Committee who were elected at the 17th congress, 98 persons, that is, 70 percent, were arrested and shot (mostly in 1937-38). [Indignation in the hall.] . . .

The same fate met not only the central committee members but also the majority of the delegates to the 17th party congress. Of 1,966 delegates with either voting or advisory rights, 1,108 persons were arrested on charges of anti-revolutionary crimes, i.e., decidedly more than a majority. This very fact shows how absurd, wild, and contrary to commonsense were the charges of counter-revolutionary crimes made out, as we now see, against a majority of participants at the 17th party congress. [Indignation in the hall.] . . .

What is the reason that mass repressions against activists increased more and more after the 17th party congress? It was because at that time Stalin had so elevated himself above the party and above the nation that he ceased to consider either the central committee or the party. While he still reckoned with the opinion of the collective before the 17th congress, after the complete political liquidation of the Trotskyites, Zinovievites and Bukharinites, when as a result of that fight and Socialist victories the party achieved unity, Stalin ceased to an ever greater degree to consider the members of the party's central committee and even the members of the Political Bureau. Stalin thought that now lie could decide all things alone and all he needed were statisticians; he treated all others in such a way that they could only listen to and praise him.

After the criminal murder of S. M. Kirov, mass repressions and brutal acts of violation of Socialist legality began. On the evening of December 1, 1934, on Stalin's initiative (without the approval of the Political Bureau - which was passed 2 days later, casually) the Secretary of the Presidium of the Central Executive Committee, Yenukidze, signed the following directive:

I. Investigative agencies are directed to speed up the cases of those accused of the preparation or execution of acts of terror.

II. Judicial organs are directed not to hold up the execution of death sentences pertaining to crimes of this category in order to consider the possibility of pardon, because the Presidium of the Central Executive Committee, U.S.S.R, does not consider as possible the receiving of petitions of this sort.

III. The organs of the Commissariat of Internal Affairs are directed to execute the death sentences against criminals of the above-mentioned category immediately after the passage of sentences.

This directive became the basis for mass acts of abuse against Socialist legality. During many of the fabricated court cases the accused were charged with "the preparation" of terroristic acts; this deprived them of any, possibility that their cases might be reexamined, even when they stated before the court that their confessions were secured by force, and when, in a convincing manner, they disproved the accusations against them. . . .

Mass repressions grew tremendously from the end of 1936 after a telegram from Stalin and Zhdanov, dated from Sochi on September 25, 1936, was addressed to Kaganovich, Molotov, and other members of the Political Bureau. The content of the telegram was as follows: "We deem it absolutely necessary and urgent that Comrade Yezhov be nominated to the post of People's Commissar for Internal Affairs. Yagoda has definitely proved himself to be incapable of unmasking the Trotskyite-Zinovievite bloc. The OGPU is 4 years behind in this matter. This is noted by all party workers and by the majority of the representatives of the NKVD." Strictly speaking we should stress that Stalin did not meet with and therefore could not know the opinion of party workers. . . .

The mass repressions at this time were made under the slogan of a fight against the Trotskyites. Did the Trotskyites at this time actually constitute such a danger to our party and to the Soviet state? We should recall that in 1927, on the eve of the 15th party congress, only some 4,000 votes were cast for the Trotskyite-Zinovievite opposition, while there were 724,000 for the party line. During the 10 years which passed between the 15th party congress and the February-March central committee plenum, Trotskyism was completely disarmed; many former Trotskyites had changed their former views and worked in the various sectors building socialism. It is clear that in the situation of Socialist victory there was no basis for mass terror in the country . . . .

The majority of the Central Committee members and candidates elected at the 17th congress and arrested in 1937-38 were expelled from the party illegally through the brutal abuse of the party statute, because the question of their expulsion was never studied at the Central Committee plenum.

Now when the cases of some of these so-called spies and saboteurs were examined it was found that all their cases were fabricated. Confessions of guilt of many- arrested and charged with enemy activity were gained with the help of cruel and inhuman tortures. . . .

An example of vile provocation of odious falsification and of criminal violation of revolutionary legality is the case of the former candidate for the central committee political bureau, one of the most eminent workers of the party and of the Soviet Government, Comrade Eikhe, who was a party member since 1905. [Commotion in the hall.]

Comrade Eikhe was arrested on April 29, 1938, on the basis of slanderous materials, without the sanction of the prosecutor of the USSR, which was finally received 15 months after the arrest.

Investigation of Eikhe's case was made in a manner which most brutally violated Soviet legality and was accompanied by willfulness and falsification.

Eikhe was forced under torture to sign ahead of time a protocol of his confession prepared by the investigative judges, in which he and several other eminent party workers were accused of anti-Soviet activity.

On October 1, 1939, Eikhe sent his declaration to Stalin in which be categorically denied his guilt and asked for an examination of his case. In the declaration he wrote:

"There is no more bitter misery than to sit In the jail of a government for which I have always fought.". . .

On February 2, 1940, Eikhe was brought before the court. Here he did not confess any guilt and said as follows:

"In all the so-called confessions of mine there is not one letter written by me with the exception of my signatures under the protocols which were forced from me. I have made my confession under pressure from the investigative judge who from the time of my arrest tormented me. After that I began to write all this nonsense. The most important thing for me is to tell the court, the party and Stalin that I am not guilty. I have never been guilty of any conspiracy. I will die believing in the truth of party policy as I have believed in it during my whole life."

On February 4 Eikhe was shot. [Indignation in the hall.] It has been definitely established now that Eikhe's case was fabricated; he has been posthumously rehabilitated. . . .

The way in which the former NKVD workers manufactured various fictitious "anti-Soviet centers" and "blocs" with the help of provocatory methods is seen from the confession of Comrade Rozenblum, party member since 1906, who was arrested in 1937 by the Leningrad NKVD.

During the examination in 1955 of the Kornarov case Rozenblum revealed the following fact: when Rozenblum was arrested in 1937 he was subjected to terrible torture during which be was ordered to confess false information concerning himself and other persons. Be was then brought to the office of Zakovsky, who offered him freedom on condition that be make before the court a false confession fabricated in 1937 by the NKVD concerning "sabotage, espionage and diversion in a terroristic center in Leningrad." [Movement in the hall.] . . .

"You, yourself," said Zakovskv, "will not need to invent anything. The NKVD will prepare for you a ready outline for every branch of the center; you will have to study it carefully and to remember well all questions and answers which the court might ask. Pus case will be ready in 4-5 months, or perhaps a half year. During all this time you will be preparing yourself so that you will not compromise the investigation and yourself. Your future will depend on how the trial goes and on its results. If you begin to lie and to testify falsely, blame yourself. If you manage to endure it, you will save your bead and we will feed and clothe you at the government's cost until your death."

This is the kind of vile things which were then practiced. [Movement in the hall.] . .

When we look at many of our novels, films, and historical scientific studies, the role of Stalin in the patriotic war appears to be entirely improbable. Stalin had foreseen everything. The Soviet Army, on the basis of a strategic plan prepared by Stalin long before, used the tactics of so-called active defense, i.e., tactics which, as we know, allowed the Germans to come up to Moscow and Stalingrad. Using such tactics, the Soviet Army, supposedly, thanks only to Stalin's genius, turned to the offensive and subdued the enemy. The epic victory gained through the armed might of the land of the Soviets, through our heroic people, is ascribed in this type of novel, film, and scientific study as being completely due to the strategic genius of Stalin.

We have to analyze this matter carefully because it has a tremendous significance, not only from the historical but especially from the political, educational, and practical point of view. . . .

During the war and after the war, Stalin put forward the thesis that the tragedy which our nation experienced in the first part of the war was the result of the unexpected attack of the Germans against the Soviet Union. But, comrades, this is completely untrue. As soon as Hitler came to power in Germany be assigned to himself the task of liquidating communism. The Fascists were saying this openly; they did not hide their plans. In order to attain this aggressive end, all sorts of pacts and blocs were created, such as the famous Berlin-Rome-Tokyo Axis. Many facts from the prewar period clearly showed that Hitler was going all out to begin a war against the Soviet state and that lie had concentrated large armed units, together with armored units, near the Soviet borders. . . .

We must assert that information of this sort concerning the threat of German armed invasion of Soviet territory was coming in also from our own military and diplomatic sources; however, because the leadership was conditioned against such information, such data was dispatched with fear and assessed with reservation. . . .

Despite these particularly grave warnings, the necessary steps were not taken to prepare the country properly for defense and to prevent it from being caught unaware.

Did we have time and the capabilities for such preparations? Yes; we had the time and capabilities. Our industry was already so developed that it was capable of supplying fully the Soviet Army with everything that it needed. . . .

Had our industry been mobilized properly and in time to supply the army with the necessary materiel, our wartime losses would have been decidedly smaller. Such mobilization had not been, however, started in time. And already in the first days of the war it became evident that our Army was badly armed, that we did not have enough artillery, tanks, and planes to throw the enemy back. . . .

Very grievous consequences, especially in reference to the beginning of the war, followed Stalin's annihilation of many military commanders and political workers during 1937-41 because of his suspiciousness and through slanderous accusations. During these years repressions were instituted against certain parts of military cadres beginning literally at the company and battalion commander level and extending to the higher military centers; during this time the cadre of leaders who had gained military experience in Spain and In the Far East was almost completely liquidated. . . .

After the conclusion of the patriotic war the Soviet nation stressed with pride the magnificent victories gained through great sacrifices and tremendous efforts. The country experienced a period of political enthusiasm. The party came out of the war even more united; in the fire of the war party cadres were tempered and hardened. Under such conditions nobody could have even thought of the possibility of some plot in the party.

And it was precisely at this time that the so-called Leningrad affair was born. As we have now proven, this case was fabricated. Those who innocently lost their lives included Comrades Voznesensky, Kuznetsov, Rodionov, Popkov, and others. . . .

Facts prove that the Leningrad affair is also the result of willfulness which Stalin exercised against party cadres. . . .

We must state that after the war the situation became even more complicated. Stalin became even more capricious, irritable, and brutal; in particular his suspicion grew. His persecution mania reached unbelievable dimensions. Many workers were becoming enemies before his very eyes. After the war Stalin separated himself from the collective even more. Everything was decided by him alone without any consideration for anyone or anything.

This unbelievable suspicion was cleverly taken advantage of by the abject provocateur and vile enemy, Beriya, who had murdered thousands of Communists and loyal Soviet people. The elevation of Voznesensky and Kuznetsov alarmed Beriya. As we have now proven, it had been precisely Beriya who had suggested to Stalin the fabrication by him and by his confidants of materials in the form of declarations and anonymous letters, and in the form of various rumors and talks. . . .

The question arises: Why is it that we see the truth of this affair only now, and why did we not do something earlier, during Stalin's life, in order to prevent the loss of innocent lives? It was because Stalin personally supervised the Leningrad affair, and the majority of the Political Bureau members did not, at that time, know all of the circumstances in these matters, and could not therefore intervene. . . .

The willfulness of Stalin showed itself not only in decisions concerning the internal life of the country but also in the international relations of the Soviet Union.

The July plenum of the Central Committee studied in detail the reasons for the development of conflict with Yugoslavia. It was a shameful role which Stalin played here. The "Yugoslav affair" contained no problems which could not have been solved through party discussions among comrades. There was no significant basis for the development of this "affair;" it was completely possible to have prevented the rupture of relations with that country.

I recall the first days when the conflict between the Soviet Union and Yugoslavia began artificially to be blown up. Once, when I carne from Kiev to Moscow, I was invited to visit Stalin who, pointing to the copy of a letter lately sent to Tito, asked me, "Have you read this?"

Not waiting for my reply be answered, "I will shake my little finger and there will be no more Tito. He will fall.". . .

But this did not happen to Tito. No matter how much or how little Stalin shook, not only his little finger but everything else that be could shake, Tito did not fall. Why? The reason was that, in this case of disagreement with the Yugoslav comrades, Tito had behind him a state and a people who had gone through a severe school of fighting for liberty and independence, a people which gave support to its leaders.

You see to what Stalin's mania for greatness led. He bad completely lost consciousness of reality; he demonstrated his suspicion and haughtiness not only in relation to individuals in the USSR, but in relation to whole parties and nations. . . .

Let us also recall the affair of the doctor plotters. [Animation in the ball.] Actually there was no affair outside of the declaration of the woman doctor Timasbuk, who was probably influenced or ordered by someone (after all, she was an unofficial collaborator of the organs of state security) to write Stalin a letter in which she declared that doctors were applying supposedly improper methods of medical treatment.

Such a letter was sufficient for Stalin to reach an immediate conclusion that there are doctor plotters in the Soviet Union. He issued orders to arrest a group of eminent Soviet medical specialists. He personally issued advice on the conduct of the investigation and the method of interrogation of the arrested persons. He said that the academician Vinogradov should be put in chains, another one should be beaten. Present at this Congress as a delegate is the former Minister of State Security Comrade Ignatiev. Stalin told him curtly, "If you do not obtain confessions from the doctors we will shorten you by a head." [Tumult in the hall.] . . .

In organizing the various dirty and shameful cases, a very base role was played by the rabid enemy of our party, an agent of a foreign intelligence service-Beriya, who had stolen into Stalin's confidence. In what way could this provocateur gain such a position in the part), and in the State, so as to become the First Deputy Chairman of the Council of Ministers of the Soviet Union and a member of the Central Committee Political Bureau? It has now been established that this villain bad climbed up the government ladder over an untold number of corpses.

Were there any signs that Beriya was an enemy of the party? Yes; there were. Already in 1937, at a Central Committee plenum, former People's Commissar of Health Protection Kaminsky said that Beriya worked for the Mussavat intelligence service. But the Central Committee plenum had barely concluded when Kaminsky was arrested and then shot. Had Stalin examined Kaminsky's statement? No; because Stalin believed in Beriya and that was enough for him. And when Stalin believed in anyone or anything, then no one could say anything which was contrary to his opinion; anyone who would dare to express opposition would have met the same fate as Kaminsky. . . .

Comrades, the cult of the individual acquired such monstrous size chiefly because Stalin himself, using all conceivable methods, supported the glorification of his own person. This is supported by numerous facts. One of the most characteristic examples of Stalin's self -glorification and of his lack of even elementary modesty is the edition of his Short Biography, which was published in 1948.

This book is an expression of the most dissolute flattery, an example of making a man into a godhead, of transforming him into an infallible sage, "the greatest leader," "sublime strategist of all times and nations." Finally no other words could be found with which to lift Stalin up to the heavens.

We need not give here examples of the loathsome adulation filling this book. All we need to add is that they all were approved and edited by Stalin personally and some of them were added in his own handwriting to the draft text of the book. . . .

Comrades, if we sharply criticize today the cult of the individual which was so widespread during Stalin's life and if we speak about the many negative phenomena generated by this cult which is so alien to the spirit of Marxism-Leninism, various persons may ask: How could it be? Stalin headed the party and the country for 30 years and many victories were gained during his lifetime. Can we deny this? In my opinion, the question can be asked in this manner only by those who are blinded and hopelessly hypnotized by the cult of the individual, only by those who do not understand the essence of the revolution and of the Soviet State, only by those who do not understand, in a Leninist manner, the role of the party and of the nation in the development of the Soviet society. . . .

Our historical victories were attained thanks to the organizational work of the party, to the many provincial organizations, and to the self-sacrificing work of our great nation. These victories are the result of the great drive and activity of the nation and of the party as a whole; they are not at all the fruit of the leadership of Stalin, as the situation was pictured during the period of the cult of the individual. . . .

Let us consider the first Central Committee plenum after the 19th party congress when Stalin, in his talk at the plenum, characterized Vyacheslav Mikhailovich Molotov and Anastas Ivanovich Mikoyan and suggested that these old workers of our party were guilty of some baseless charges. It is not excluded that had Stalin remained at the helm for another several months, Comrades Molotov and Mikoyan would probably have not delivered any speeches at this congress.

Stalin evidently had plans to finish off the old members of the political bureau. He often stated that political bureau members should be replaced by new ones. . . .

We can assume that this was also a design for the future annihilation of the old political bureau members and in this way a cover for all shameful acts of Stalin, acts which we are now considering.

Comrades, in order not to repeat errors of the past, the central committee has declared itself resolutely against the cult of the individual. We consider that Stalin was excessively extolled. However, in the past Stalin doubtless performed great services to the party, to the working class, and to the international workers' movement. . . .

We should in all seriousness consider the question of the cult of the individual. We cannot let this matter get out of the party, especially not to the press. It is for this reason that we are considering it here at a closed congress session. We should know the limits; we should not give ammunition to the enemy; we should not wash our dirty linen before their eves. I think that the delegates to the congress will understand and assess properly all these proposals. [Tumultuous applause.]

Comrades, we must abolish the cult of the individual decisively, once and for all; we must draw the proper conclusions concerning both ideological-theoretical and practical work.

It is necessary for this purpose:

First, in a Bolshevik manner to condemn and to eradicate the cult of the individual as alien to Marxism-Leninism and not consonant with the principles of party leadership and the norms of party life, and to fight inexorably all attempts at bringing back this practice in one form or another.

To return to and actually practice in all our ideological work, the most important theses of Marxist-Leninist science about the people as the creator of history and as the creator of all material and spiritual good of humanity, about the decisive role of the Marxist party in the revolutionary fight for the transformation of society-, about the victory of communism.

In this connection we will be forced to do much work in order to examine critically from the Marxist-Leninist viewpoint and to correct the widely spread erroneous views connected with the cult of the individual in the sphere of history, philosophy,, economy, and of other sciences, as well as in the literature and t be fine arts. It is especially necessary that in the immediate future we compile a serious textbook of the history of our party which will be edited in accordance with scientific Marxist objectivism, a textbook of the history of Soviet society, a book pertaining to the events of the civil war and the great patriotic war.

Secondly, to continue systematically and consistently the work done by the party's central committee during the last years, a work characterized by minute observation in all party- organizations, from the bottom to the top, of the Leninist principles of party- leadership, characterized, above all, by the main principle of collective leadership, characterized by the observation of the norms of party life described in the statutes of our party, and, finally, characterized by- the wide practice of criticism and self-criticism.

Thirdly, to restore completely the Leninist principles of Soviet Socialist democracy., expressed in the constitution of the Soviet Union, to fight willfulness of individuals abusing their power. The evil caused by acts violating revolutionary Socialist legality which have accumulated during a long time as a result of the negative influence of the cult of the individual has to be completely corrected.

Comrades, the 20tb Congress of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union has manifested with a new strength the unshakable unity- of our party, its cohesiveness around the central committee, its resolute will to accomplish the great task of building communism. [Tumultuous applause.] And the fact that we present in all the ramifications the basic problems of overcoming the cult of the individual which is alien to Marxism-Leninism, as well as the problem of liquidating its burdensome consequences, is an evidence of the great moral and political strength of our party'. [Prolonged applause.]

We are absolutely certain that our party, armed with the historical resolutions of the 20th Congress, will lead the Soviet people along the Leninist path to new, successes, to new victories. [Tumultuous, prolonged applause.]

Long live the victorious banner of our party-Leninism. [Tumultuous, prolonged applause ending in ovation. All rise.]


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Source:

from the Congressional Record: Proceedings and Debates of the 84th Congress, 2nd Session (May 22, 1956-June 11, 1956), C11, Part 7 (June 4, 1956), pp. 9389-9403.

[Aleksander Nordby]

Its so fucking boring to read so much.
WRITE LESS

[Cassius Clay]

I wonder how desperate you must be to start quoting Khruschev for something on Stalin.?

First of all this still doesn't provide evidence that Stalin murdered 20 million or even one person. Second of all Khruschev is actually right on one thing, the 'cult of personality' he is right to say no one man is god. But who built up this 'cult' Khruschev did, he would delcare 'Stalin the greatest of all men' and other such sayings, and then in 1956 he accusses Stalin of forging his own cult. Clearly a sign of a opportunist. Thirdly Khruschev was recieved with 'cry's of ''Shame'' ' when he read that out, not only that but everywhere the speech was met with harsh crticism, notably in Georgia where the workers, students and peasants rose up in Stalin's name. Fourthly why should we trust Khruschev? He is a liar, he says that Stalin for the first weeks of the war wen't mad and locked himself up in a dacha. Rubbish the testimony of Molotov, Zhukov and dozens of others proves this to be so, where was Khruschev? In the Ukraine, how would he know? Khruschev actually banned and expelled people for reading a poem 'Why did they destroy our Legacy' which was anti the speech and pro-Stalin. Not only that but he realeased Nazi-war criminalls and used them to unleash a mafia style terror on those who didn't support him.

Still waiting for those 20 million bodies? Comeon I know Siberia's big but if some amatuer scientists are capable of finding the remain's of a 30,000 year old Elephant I'm sure it'll be easy.

[Aleksander Nordby]

Stalin was crazy dictator, and killed communists to

[Pete]

Stalin was loved by his people. Under the Czars they starved and where oppressed. Under Stalin they had freedoms and ate. We are all fed the bullshit that America and the west had agaisnt the USSR. How many did the West kill inbetween 1919-1923 when they tried, and failed miserably, to 'liberate' Russia? This botched attempt at counter revolution was fiercly resisted by most people. Children are taught 'Russia Evil' since birth in North America. The movie Anasasha in an example or the call sign for a Michigan radio station "It may be :something something and something: or it may even be communism, but whatever it is it is pure evil."

[Cassius Clay]

Crazypete, careful for the above view you could end up being labbled a Fascist and a member of a 'cult'.

[Invader Zim]

LL firstly none of your site quote anything with FACTS its all just satements with no proof.

But i cant beleive that some of you guys denie that Stalin and Moa killed all those people it's true. However they were not communist they were Facist. Repression of Human Rights, political freedoms, civil rights. Ohh and genocide.

Q) Is that Hitler, Moa or Stalin?

A) Its all of them. Coz thay all were facists.

[Pete]

Cassius, I am not an authoritarian. The complete opposite infact. But my statement about the people loving Stalin is true. And the radio station did say that.

[Cassius Clay]

Crazypete, what makes you think I'm 'authoritarian'?

[Pete]

I don't.... I do not know where you got that from. I guess I misunderstood your post and you inturn misunderstood mine. Let us forget this then comrade?

[Invader Zim]

Quote: from Cassius Clay on 4:10 pm on Feb. 25, 2003
Crazypete, what makes you think I'm 'authoritarian'?


I dont know what pete thinks but i think you are. You mad a post which was called we will accept no critism of stalin. If youy had not noticed Stalin is very Authoritarian. Your supporting him would indicate you share his authoritarian beliefs.

[Cassius Clay]

''I dont know what pete thinks but i think you are.''

Well I'm not.

''You mad a post which was called we will accept no critism of stalin.''

Did you read page six of that thread? Anyway that was the title of the the article and also the cry of the Georgian prolertariat, students and peasants and others throughout the Soviet Union when they heard Khruschev's attack on Stalin.

''If youy had not noticed Stalin is very Authoritarian.''

Well thanx for informing me of that, ofcourse your very detailed sentence there clearly proves you right, I mean the evidence is just undeniable.

''Your supporting him would indicate you share his authoritarian beliefs.''

Well I can't deny that, you've certainly got me there?

Sigh some people really have a narrow minded concept about things.

Oh and Crazypete, sorry my fault I think. Indeed let us forget the misfourtunate misunderstanding that has taken place comrade.

[Liberty Lover]

"Stalin was loved by his people."

Didn't that Krushcev speech explain do you the cult of personality and WHY his people loved him.

Stormin Normin,
Here is another one for your "Ignorant Statement's Hall of Fame":
"Under Stalin they had freedoms"

[Pete]

They did have rights. They had the right to report a profiteering boss, the right to report corruption, and these problems where often fixed. If a manager was being discriminatory against women he could be removed.

[Cassius Clay]

Liberty Lover, I explained Khruschev's opportunism and how people like him built up the cult, Stalin fought against it.

Anyway it's irrelevant you have FAILED TO PROVIDE ANY EVIDENCE that Stalin killed anyone let alone 20 million. And go to page three of the 'Death of Stalin' thread there you will see the USSR had a far more democratic process than the U$A or any other nation in the west.