Question to Right-Wingers - Iraq Issue

[Xvall]

Simple question; will hopefully spark a profound argument. Do you think Iraq is attempting to build nuclear weapons? Do Iraq will use these weapons against the United States if they obtain them?

[Spiteful]

Doesn't matter what type of weapons they have. We already know they have chemical and biological weapons and Saddam is willing to use them. Saddam is the only current 'leader' to use any type of WMD. He will use them again.

Not only will he use the weapons against the United States, but I bet he's willing to use them against anyone that doesn't want him in power. Hell, he used the WMD against people who "want" him in power.

[Liberty Lover]

Of course he is attempting to build nuclear weapons. Whether he will or not and whether he could deliver them to the USA is another question. But he would certainly send a few America's way if he had the means of doing so.

[Anonymous]

While I don't believe Saddam is foolish enough to try an attack the United States directly with nuclear weapons (assuming he could), I do believe that they could be used as tools of blackmail against the west and especialy Israel. Not to mention the risk of nuclear secrets falling into the hands of Iraq's less, shall we say, politically stable neighbors.

Nuclear proliferation is something which must be prevented at all costs. Especialy when it comes to third world dictatorships in such an unstable region as the middle east.

[Sol]

You mean nuclear proliferation amongst those we see as "rogue states" right DC? I mean, Pakistan's unstable as all get out and they have nukes... ya don't see us wringing our hands over them.

Iraq has chemical/bio weapons (we started the program w/ gas manufactured in the US). Hussein will use them, not against the US, but against domestic enemies most likely. As for his nuclear capabilities, he has none. What he may have is material to build a dirty bomb or something like that. But overall, I'd say the nuke threat from Iraq itself is nil.

[MiNdGaMe]

Let's not forget that the US supplied Iraq with biological weapons during the Iran-Iraq War. I say remove the UN Sanctions and watch a revolution unfold, like the attempt after the Gulf War.

[Xvall]

Doesn't matter what type of weapons they have. We already know they have chemical and biological weapons and Saddam is willing to use them.

Really? Did you read Saddam's diary? How do you know that he is willing to use these invisible weapons? (I have never seen them.)

Saddam is the only current 'leader' to use any type of WMD. He will use them again.

Ever heard of Hiroshima? Nagasaki maybe?

Not only will he use the weapons against the United States, but I bet he's willing to use them against anyone that doesn't want him in power.

Really? That's odd. Twelve years ago when we invaded his country, he did not use any chemical or biological weapons against our country. Since then, he has not used any chemical or biological weapons against our county. Correct me if I am wrong; you are saying that you must intervene and stop him before he attempts to do nothing again?

Hell, he used the WMD against people who "want" him in power.

I don't understand that. Why would he use weapons against his supporters? Is he really that stupid? I believe Dark Capitalist is more correct in saying that he probably isn't stupid enough to use any weapons against the United States, out of fear of a harsh retaliation. However, if we continue pointing a gun at his head, he just might be desperate enough to unleash them on American civilians. Let us hope that we have purchased enough duct tape to prevent us from being hurt by these nasty weapons of evil. That's right kids. The Department of Homeland Security says that hiding in our houses with canned goods is the best defense against a terrorist threat.

(Edited by Drake Dracoli at 5:08 pm on Feb. 23, 2003)

[Spiteful]

Really? Did you read Saddam's diary? How do you know that he is willing to use these invisible weapons? (I have never seen them.)

He's crazy. He's capable of anything.

Ever heard of Hiroshima? Nagasaki maybe?

I don't see Truman in the white house now. Read more closely.


Really? That's odd. Twelve years ago when we invaded his country, he did not use any chemical or biological weapons against our country. Since then, he has not used any chemical or biological weapons against our county. Correct me if I am wrong; you are saying that you must intervene and stop him before he attempts to do nothing again?

He killed his own people. And I'm glad he didn't use anything. But that was 12 years ago.

I don't understand that. Why would he use weapons against his supporters? Is he really that stupid? I believe Dark Capitalist is more correct in saying that he probably isn't stupid enough to use any weapons against the United States, out of fear of a harsh retaliation. However, if we continue pointing a gun at his head, he just might be desperate enough to unleash them on American civilians. Let us hope that we have purchased enough duct tape to prevent us from being hurt by these nasty weapons of evil. That's right kids. The Department of Homeland Security says that hiding in our houses with canned goods is the best defense against a terrorist threat.

Again, he's killed his own people. I don't agree fully with the duct tape and canned food precautions. Perhaps it's because Dept. of Homeland Security are trying to protect themselves incase something does happen. But don't you think we wouldn't have to worry about duct tape or canned foods if Saddam wasn't crazy?



(Edited by Spiteful at 10:29 am on Feb. 23, 2003)

[abstractmentality]

"Saddam is the only current 'leader' to use any type of WMD. He will use them again."

Actually, this is not true. Depleted Uranium (DU) has been labeld by the UN as a weapon of mass destruction, and the US uses DU in its military missions.

"We already know they have chemical and biological weapons..."
do we know this? because, to my knowledge, the UN doesnt even know this, and all attempts to prove this have been on purely circumstantial "evidence" that is questioned to be true evidence or not.

As far as nuclear weapons is concerned, ill let Scott Ritter speak his mind:
"The vice president has been saying that Iraq might be two years away from building a nuclear bomb. unless he knows something we dont, thats nonsense. and it doesnt appear he does, because whenever you press the VP or other bush administration officils on these claims, they fall back on testimony by Richrad Butler, my former boss, an Australian diplomat, and Khidre Hamza, an Iraqi defector who claims to be saddams bomb-maker. neiter of these people provide anything more than speculation to back up their assertions. the vice presidents continued claims about iraqs nuclear weapons capability are unsubstantiated speculation. and of course thats not good enough, especially when you have the United Nations record of Iraqi disarmament from 1991 to 1998. that record is without dispute. its documented. we eliminated the nuclear program, and for iraq to have reconstituted it would require undertaking activities eminently detectabke by intelligence services."

He then speaks on whether or not Iraq would be able to hide the development facilities because of energy released:

"Its not just heat. Centrifuge facilities emit gamma radiation, as well as many other frequencies. its detectable. iraq could not get around this."
Source: War on Iraq, William Rivers Pitt with Scott Ritter, 2002

[The Sniper]

*Salutes Drake* All valid points and highly amusing, when argueing with an idiot light relief is nice.
Erm Spiteful you are missing the point Saddam isnt a madman there is no evidense to suggest he is but because that idea falls in line with a war drive, idiots like you use the word like there is a buy one get one free offer on. Its just easy for you to brand him a madman and insane becuase then u can say "Well we dont know what he might do!"

The truth is he must be pretty sane because he has kept himself in power for over 10years and survived a massive attack by a world led Colalition. Im not supporting him its just i dont think he is gonna suddenly go
"Oh i think ill nuke the US with this homeade kit ahahahaha Im so insane i dont even care what happens next!!"

[Spiteful]

Quote: from The Sniper on 1:42 pm on Feb. 23, 2003

The truth is he must be pretty sane because he has kept himself in power for over 10years and survived a massive attack by a world led Colalition. Im not supporting him its just i dont think he is gonna suddenly go
"Oh i think ill nuke the US with this homeade kit ahahahaha Im so insane i dont even care what happens next!!"

Saddam is in power because he has instilled fear into Iraqi citizens. He received 100% of the votes last election most likely because he had gunmen standing outside of the polling areas(perhaps an exaggeration on force, but he did recieve 100%). Not only is there a lack of leadership in Iraq, there is a crazed madman at the helm now. If he knows the world doesn't want him in power because we fear him, why doesn't he step aside and allow someone else to run Iraq? If many worldwide coalitions don't want to partner up with Saddam, he's only hurting his people by not being able to give them the resources they need through trade or whatever..

[hawarameen]

saddam hussain reminds me of hitler, nobody knows how lucky ther are thay he wasnt born in and leader of another, more developed country, potentially he is worse than hitler.

and like hitler he would rather die than give up and grow old gracefully, if he knew he was going to die he would not hesitate in gassing the whole of iraq itself just to make a statement.

he has gassed kurds, poisoned drinking water, hundres of thousands have been missing for 20 years or so, all this is a little known fact in the west, all the west sees is tariq aziz thanking the anti-war marchers and saying "our hearts are with you"!!!!

[Capitalist Imperial]

Quote: from Drake Dracoli on 5:07 am on Feb. 23, 2003
Simple question; will hopefully spark a profound argument. Do you think Iraq is attempting to build nuclear weapons? Do Iraq will use these weapons against the United States if they obtain them?


Saddam could probably get the plutonium or uranium, but the hard part for him will : #1: engineering an actual, detonatable nuclear warhead and #2 obtaining a vehicle capable of reaching the USA (ICBM). Of course, assuming he could fashion an actual nuclear bomb. smuggling it in to the US would probably be more feasible than building/obtaining an ICBM.

I think saddam would be maniacal enough to employ a nuke Vs. the USA if he could, but if he did, that would be utter suicide for him and Iraq. The USA would turn them into a parking lot withn minutes.

[Disgustipated]

Israel has nukes, and no one is more unstable then them.

They have proven time and time again that they have a propensity for war and killing. If Israel is going to have a bomb, doesn't it make sense for arab nations to have them as a deterrent? Isn't that why the US always had nukes? As a deterrence? What happened to all that Reagan jingoism and "Peace through strength" nonsense? Does that only apply to us? Is a sovereign nation not allowed to protect itself?

I remember all the rhetoric during our "campaign" against Libya too. I remember that Qaadafi was a madman and evil and all the rest too, and yet he is still in power today. American media paints anyone who is counter to their capitalist agenda as madmen.

[Xvall]

He's crazy. He's capable of anything.

This is simply your impression of him. Indeed; he is an opressive, greedy bastard. To you, this labels him as crazy. In such a case; there are other military leaders that are 'crazy' as well. The media here has reported North Korea's government to be 'crazy'; and they admittingly have Nuclear Weapons. Why then does not the United States seem to be as eager to go to war with North Korea, a country which is seemingly far more dangerous than Iraq? The dictator of Saudi Arabia isn't very nice either; yet the population of the United States doesn't seem to think he is crazy. There are many rulers out there wh oare crazy. He is not the only one.

I don't see Truman in the white house now. Read more closely.

Indeed; Truman is not a 'current leader'. However, I was using him as an example. Truman didn't exactly seem the crazy type of person, yet he used Nuclear Weapons without hesitation. I am simply bringing this up to show that you can not tell a person's intentions simply be deducing if they were crazy or not.

He killed his own people.

Yes. Do not get me wrong. I do not support this.

And I'm glad he didn't use anything.

So am I.

But that was 12 years ago.

Yes. And he has not used anything eleven years ago, ten years ago, five years ago, or even one year ago. I am currently under the impression that he seems to become more desperate as we increase the amount of political pressure on his nation. I believe that if we continue to 'harass' him, regardless of weather or not he deserves it, he will likely use the weapons. He is not like the conventional 'terrorist' that seeks to anihialate the population of the United States. He knows very well that if he were to use any weapon against the United States he will end up dead. For this reason, I don't think he will use weapons against us unless we indirectly pressure him to.

Again, he's killed his own people.

I believe that the correct justice would be to take some for of diplomatic action; or if need be, assasinate the man. However I think that bombing the country isn't going to cause much other than more anti-war rallies and anti-american sentiment among the mideastern population.

[Goldfinger]

Ask yourself: What would Che Guevara do?

Instead of bombing the place and kill the civilians, I suggest we support the gurrilla uprisings in Iraq and provide them with weapons and militairy assistance. I don't believe in the "American" ways at all. They will only take the oil and install another dictator funded by the CIA. I want them to have a democratic government, which the people themselves choose.