RE: The Official Palestine - Israel poll

[OI OI OI]

In this thread I would like to address two things to the board. First of all I would like to deal with this poll here (http://www.revleft.com/vb/official-palestine-israel-t14377/index.html) , and second of all to give my two cents about the Palestine-Israel issue.




The Official Palestine- Israel Poll


Israel and America and all Jews must die http://www.revleft.com/vb/revleft/polls/bar2-l.gifhttp://www.revleft.com/vb/revleft/polls/bar2.gifhttp://www.revleft.com/vb/revleft/polls/bar2-r.gifhttp://www.revleft.com/vb/clear.gif 4 (http://www.revleft.com/vb/poll.php?do=showresults&pollid=8) 1.83% Israel has to be totally destroyed and Jews thrown out http://www.revleft.com/vb/revleft/polls/bar3-l.gifhttp://www.revleft.com/vb/revleft/polls/bar3.gifhttp://www.revleft.com/vb/revleft/polls/bar3-r.gifhttp://www.revleft.com/vb/clear.gif 3 (http://www.revleft.com/vb/poll.php?do=showresults&pollid=8) 1.38%
Anexation, Israel to gradually take all of Palestine http://www.revleft.com/vb/revleft/polls/bar4-l.gifhttp://www.revleft.com/vb/revleft/polls/bar4.gifhttp://www.revleft.com/vb/revleft/polls/bar4-r.gifhttp://www.revleft.com/vb/clear.gif 1 (http://www.revleft.com/vb/poll.php?do=showresults&pollid=8) 0.46% Expansion, Israel to seize more Arab land and kill Islam http://www.revleft.com/vb/revleft/polls/bar5-l.gifhttp://www.revleft.com/vb/revleft/polls/bar5.gifhttp://www.revleft.com/vb/revleft/polls/bar5-r.gifhttp://www.revleft.com/vb/clear.gif 1 (http://www.revleft.com/vb/poll.php?do=showresults&pollid=8) 0.46%

I want to deal first of all with the first two and last two answers of the poll.
As a socialist , as a human and as a person that has relations with Arab and Jewish comrades or friends I find these answers outrageous especialy when they come from fellow comrades.
This Anti-Semitism that a lot of comrades (at least 7) present is not compatible with a forum like revleft which only accomondates the revolutionary left. Historicaly Anti-Semitism and racism has been used by the ruling class in order to divide the proletariat into opposing camps. By having the exact same views with the ruling class we seize to become revolutionaries but we are rather counter-revolutionaries.
I can understand the indignation of some people about the crimes of Israel.
But they are not crimes of the ordinary people (the working class) , but crimes of the ruling class. Unfortunately those comrades cannot make a class dinstiction. The ruling class of Israel and Israeli capitalism supported by American capitalism have done all these crimes not the ordinary Jewish working class. This sort of anti-semitism belong to stormfront and not revleft. And in real life it belongs to fascist thugs and backwards elemnts of the working class and the bourgeoisie . This anti-semitism is not compatible with communism and anarchism . These views serve only to divide the working class and strengthen the bourgeoisie.

The same thing applies to the last two questions. It is "anti-Arabism" which has been used by the American ruling class recently in order to divert the masses into supporting the "war on terror" .
It is support of imperialism not the revolutionary overthrow of capitalism.

I can understand that some people voted that as a joke but it seems that there are some people who identify with those views.




My two cents about the problem


As a communist I believe that the conflict cannot be solved under capitalism.
There are big imperialist interests in the region as well as interests of the Israeli ruling class into opressing the Palestinians.
It is the same kind of situation as it was in Russia before 1917 although certainly not identical.
Russia , the strong empire had under its control Lithuania , Latvia ,Poland etc.
The Russian working class and peasantry needed absolutely the support of the Ukranian working class and peasantry as well as of the other opressed nationalities. We are revolutionaries and internationalists.
In the same way that the capitalists have international solidarity(see 21 armies invading Russia after the revolution etc) we as proletarians should be internationalists because the working class of one country alone(and especialy one country like Israel or Palestine) cannot establish socialism on its own.
There should be a common fight of Arabs and Jews to overthrow capitalism and the create the Socialist Federation of Israel-Palestine which hopefuly will be part of the United Socialist States of the Middle East

We should strive to unite the Arab and Jewish working class along class lines , not to divide them by saying that all Jews must die and Israel be destroyed.

It is a pity that that option was not in the poll as it is the best option in my opinion and the opinion of may of us here.

This shows how divorced we are with this idea of unity under class lines and how anti-semitism has intruded into the leftist camp.


Destroy Israel, but allow some Jews to live in Palestine http://www.revleft.com/vb/revleft/polls/bar4-l.gifhttp://www.revleft.com/vb/revleft/polls/bar4.gifhttp://www.revleft.com/vb/revleft/polls/bar4-r.gifhttp://www.revleft.com/vb/clear.gif 76 (http://www.revleft.com/vb/poll.php?do=showresults&pollid=8) 34.86%

It seems like most of revlefters voted for this.

Why allow only some Jews to live in Palestine and not most Jews (by which I mean all of the non-counter revolutionaries, which is the proletariat and a big part of the petty bourgeoisie(peasantry etc.)

So in your opinion we should send most of the Jews into exile?

I say destroy the ISraeli and Palestinian state and create the socialist - federation of Israel and PAlestine where Jewish and Arab workers can leave harmoniously without their ruling classes making them fight one another.


Comradely ,
OI OI OI

[Yehuda Stern]

The difference is that the Russians were not colonists but the natives of their land for centuries (the Rus did colonize Russia, but that was in pre-feudal times). In Israel there is no Israeli people, and the best evidence for this is the lack of any national consciousness among Israeli Jews. There is a strong sectarian identity and somewhat of a religious (Jewish) identity, but no national Israeli identity.

I agree with you that many comrades do not make any distinction between Jewish workers and Jewish capitalists - but what we say to the Jewish workers is that when they identify themselves so radically with the Zionist regime, they do not allow the workers of the world - Arab workers especially - to distinguish between them and their exploiters. Jews who do want to fight alongside their Arab brothers msut abandon defense of the Zionist state (whether in a 'socialist' form, or otherwise) and join the fight of the native working class. That is the only possible basis for Jewish-Arab working class solidarity in this land.

BTW, you will notice that no better option than "Destroy Israel, but allow some Jews to live in Palestine" was on the poll. The creator of the poll took it for granted that, like the Zionists claim, anti-Zionism equals anti-Semitism. In fact, if you'll look around this forum, I think you'll find that most members are even more pro-Zionist than, dare I say? the IMT.