View Full Version : Antisemitism and neo-fascism in the USSR
communard resolution
6th August 2008, 10:44
I recently had a look through a book called "Russian Criminal Tattoo" which features prison tattoos from the 50s through the 80s. I noticed that a lot of them had antisemitic and Nazi motifs (see example below, cyrillic letters next to picture on the left say "Death to Jews").
At first, I thought these were just meant to be crudely anticommunist and provocative, but on one page the book informs you that "this tattoo was popular among neo-fascists in the Leningrad area in the 60s" (referring to an SS/Totenkopf tattoo). This is the first time I heard that a neo-nazi underground existed in the Soviet Union, esp one dating as far back as the 60s.
Can anyone confirm this? Has anyone got any information about neo-nazism in the USSR and other Eastern Bloc countries (NOTE: I'm not referring to present-day neo-nazism in postcommunist countries)?
http://www.stickel.com.br/atc/uploads/1655.jpg
Dimentio
6th August 2008, 10:49
Yes, within the Soviet punk scene, that certainly was the case. It was mostly inspired from similar currents in the UK.
RHIZOMES
6th August 2008, 11:10
Wait... the USSR had a fascist movement?
M-L_Aussie
6th August 2008, 11:51
Brezhnev actually I believe was the first one to officially endorse (in a subtle way) antisemitism in an effect to deflect attention from his revisionism, and the economic decline because of his state-capitalism.
A particularly unpleasant feature of Brezhnev's "divide and rule" opportunism was the official encouragement of racist prejudices -- manifested in particular, in Soviet conditions, by a revival of that scourge of tsarist Russia, anti-Semitism.
In the days when Soviet society was socialist in character, the official position on anti-Semitism was one of outright denunciation and illegality:
"anti-Semitism, as an extreme form of racial chauvinism, is the most dangerous vestige of cannibalism. Anti-Semitism is of advantage to the exploiters as a lightening conductor that deflects the blows aimed by the working people at capitalism. Anti-Semitism is dangerous for the working people as being a false path that leads them off the right road and lands them in the jungle. Hence Communists, as consistent internationalists, cannot but be irreconcilable, sworn enemies of anti-Semitism.
In the USSR anti-Semitism is punishable with the utmost severity of the law as a phenomenon deeply hostile to the Soviet system".
(J.V. Stalin: "Anti-Semitism", in: "Works", Volume 13; Moscow; 1955; p. 30).
In line with Stalin's statement above that anti-Semitism is of advantage to exploiters, with the revival of an exploiting class in the Soviet Union has come a revival of anti-Semitism -- both official and unofficial: "Official and unofficial anti-Semitism.. is widespread in the Soviet Union... This anti-Semitism, which is created by the Party bosses,... finds fertile ground among people who are looking for a scapegoat on which to vent their frustrations with the regime.
The State and the Party use anti-Semitism as a safety-valve. The regime still encourages and old saying from Czarist times, 'Save Russia, boot the Yids'. Even in the camp where there were water shortages, anti-semitic prisoners would come out with an old song about the stinking Jews drinking it all.
Every year anti-Semitism in the Soviet Union gets worse. The children of Jews are no longer admitted to higher institutions of learning -- or if they are, it's through bribery and corruption."
(M. Shtern: "Jew in Gulag: Shtern's story", in: "The Observer", April 24th., 1977; p. 10).
"The camp authorities inculcate nationalistic conflicts and agitate other inmates against the Jews. KGB Captains Maruzan and Ivkin stress in their conversation with non-Jewish inmates that all nationalities of the USSR must take a stand against Jews, particularly in labour camps. The administration provokes anti-Jewish incidents, utilizes informers and spies, and uses false witnesses in order to be able to impose additional punishment upon the Jews. Inmates who have had contact with Jews are summoned for discussions during which anti-Semitic sentiments are expressed and they are told that protest against arbitrariness in camp rules are profitable to the Zionists".
("A Perm Camp", in: Amnesty International: "Prisoners of Conscience in the USSR: Their Treatment and Conditions", London; 1975; p. 80).
"Audiences in Russia are currently being shown a specially made film which is deliberately and wildly anti-Semitic. The film is called 'Things Secret and Things Obvious' and it is a vicious attack on Jews. It is a compilation of newsreel film and reconstructed scenes, and it attacks Jews from the 1917 revolution to the present day. Accompanying the pictures is a particularly nasty commentary saying such contentious and unpleasant things as: "Jewish capitalists assisted Hitler a great deal in coming to power". It also make great play of the fact that it was a Jewess, Fanny Kaplan, who once tried to kill Lenin...
The film... has been produced by the Moscow Central Studio of Documentary films".
("The Guardian", March 29th., 1977; p. 11).
Dimentio
6th August 2008, 11:56
May have been so, but the Soviet Punk scene, given that it was in opposition against the powers that be, was quite, at least aesthetically speaking, critical of "Jewish bolshevism".
communard resolution
6th August 2008, 12:20
Brezhnev actually I believe was the first one to officially endorse (in a subtle way) antisemitism in an effect to deflect attention from his revisionism, and the economic decline because of his state-capitalism.
Wow, thanks for all the info. Especially the news excerpts about prisoners are very interesting and partly answer my original question.
What are your views on Stalin's plan for a Jewish Autonomous Oblast? Some claim it was meant to be a socialist alternative to Israel, others will say it was a means to isolate Jews and their culture from the rest of the Soviet Union.
communard resolution
6th August 2008, 12:25
May have been so, but the Soviet Punk scene, given that it was in opposition against the powers that be, was quite, at least aesthetically speaking, critical of "Jewish bolshevism".
Is there anywhere I can read up on this or is this just hearsay? Apparently, there were a few (isolated) nazi punks in 1980s Poland, as well as a nazi punk gang called "The Fourth Reich" in early 80s Ljubliana, Yugoslavia. But these are just rumours, and when it comes to punk it's kind of hard to tell whether a swastika on someone's leather jacket means "I'm a neo-nazi" or just "fuck off" - especially in an Eastern Bloc country.
I've never heard anything in regards to nazi punks in the Soviet Union.
What puzzles me is the book's claim that there were actual neo-fascists in 1960s Leningrad.
M-L_Aussie
6th August 2008, 12:53
Wow, thanks for all the info. Especially the news excerpts about prisoners are very interesting and partly answer my original question.
What are your views on Stalin's plan for a Jewish Autonomous Oblast? Some claim it was meant to be a socialist alternative to Israel, others will say it was a means to isolate Jews and their culture from the rest of the Soviet Union.
Birobidzhan was a colossal failure. The fact is that it never rallied popular support from Jews(other than the petty-bourgeoisie) the reason was that many of the Jews saw themselves as Russian and could only speak Russian and detested Yiddish. Zionists hated Stalin because he suppressed the chauvinist zionist petty-bourgeoisie who adamantly supported Israel while slaughtering the palestinian arabs, or for the fact that Stalin suppressed fake and artificial languages like Esperanto.
Yehuda Stern
6th August 2008, 15:03
In this context, it would be valuable to remember that the Soviet regime itself set up the predecessor of Pamyat, the fascist and fanatically anti-Semite Russian organization. Anti-Semitism hardly sprang from the opposition to the regime alone (although, of course, there were anti-Semitic elements there too) - anti-Semitism was the regime's policy since the Stalin days, beginning with the accusations of 'cosmopolitanism' ( = Jewishness) in the struggle against the United Opposition.
communard resolution
6th August 2008, 15:21
In this context, it would be valuable to remember that the Soviet regime itself set up the predecessor of Pamyat, the fascist and fanatically anti-Semite Russian organization
What was the name of the predecessor organization, and when was it set up?
anti-Semitism was the regime's policy since the Stalin days, beginning with the accusations of 'cosmopolitanism' ( = Jewishness) in the struggle against the United Opposition.How does that fit in with the Stalin quote that M.L. Aussie cited? It does sound very assertive, especially when compared to bog-standard "we condemn racism, antisemitism, and political extremism" statements made by 'democratic leaders' such as Putin.
Some say that Stalin meant 'Zionists' rather than 'Jews', others will claim the opposite. I would like to see evidence for either to be able to form an opinion.
Leo
6th August 2008, 15:23
anti-Semitism was the regime's policy since the Stalin days
Yeah, I mean it's hardly a secret is it?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctors'_plot
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_of_the_Murdered_Poets
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rootless_cosmopolitan
Yehuda Stern
6th August 2008, 15:49
What was the name of the predecessor organization, and when was it set up?
Vityaz, set up in the late 70s.
How does that fit in with the Stalin quote that M.L. Aussie cited?
How does Ben Gurion's claim that the Zionists will never build Israel at the price of a single Arab child's tears fit in with the Nakba? Many people say many things, but we analyze politics, not speeches on their own.
Zionists hated Stalin because he suppressed the chauvinist zionist petty-bourgeoisie who adamantly supported Israel while slaughtering the palestinian arabs
Actually, most Zionists revered Stalin up to the 1950s, and the Israeli CP was enthusiastically pro-Israeli. Stalin and his satellite party were instrumental in the Nakba. Mapam, the Stalinist Zionist party, stopped its Stalin worship only after members of it were tried for crimes against the Soviet Union - and even then, it published a tearful obituary for Stalin, less than a year after the shameful Prague Trails.
Edelweiss
6th August 2008, 16:49
The DDR for example did had an active bonehead (Nazi skinhead) scene until it's end. In an internal Stasi report of 1988 there where estimated 800 active neo-Nazis in the DDR at that time (source (http://www.jugendopposition.de/index.php?id=253)). Officially the existence of neo-Nazis has always been denied in the DDR. I guess it was similar in other Soviet bloc states.
communard resolution
6th August 2008, 16:49
less than a year after the shameful Prague Trails.I always thought that was a trial against Titoists?
I can confirm that there were strong antisemitic currents in the communist party in Poland, which is where I'm originally from. This began around 1968, when nationalist Minister of Interior Mozcar expelled Jewish students and tutors from universities and sent hundreds of Jewish professionals into exile.
Antisemitic slogans were used against the opposition -whether left or right- as late as 1981, when government agents spraypainted the words "Solidarnocs = Jews" on walls all over Warsaw. They tried to appeal to the Catholic Poles' traditional antisemitic prejudice to save their own asses rather than being genuinely antisemitic. Which, of course, doesn't make it any better.
I don't care much for the Polish CP since they were a corrupt bunch of scumbags anyway, but several factors indicate that they operated relatively independently of the USSR rather than running a mere satellite state. Even if we assume they did run a satellite state, the antisemitic policies didn't begin until after the Stalin era. In the 50s, Jewish politicians such as Jakub Berman ("Stalin's right hand", apparently) held top ranks in the Polish government.
As far as the Wiki entry in regards to Pamyat, the original group was set up as a project to to "prepare the upcoming celebration of the 600th anniversary of the Battle of Kulikovo"? It went through so many splits and incarnations that it's hard for me to see how the Soviet government can be accounted for the activities of the later group known as Pamyat.
I will have a look at the links in regards to Stalin, although I'd be curious to hear the arguments of the pro-Stalin contingent also.
Red October
6th August 2008, 22:31
Anti-semitism has been a deep problem in Russia for hundreds of years, so of course it continued to exist in the USSR. The USSR was able to suppress nazis, but as we all know they resurfaced rapidly after the collapse.
Yehuda Stern
6th August 2008, 23:07
I always thought that was a trial against Titoists?
As part of those trials, Mapam members were also convicted. The exact stated aim of the trials was to expose and destroy the "Trotskyite-Titoist-Zionist conspiracy."
the antisemitic policies didn't begin until after the Stalin era.
This is clearly false - the anti-Semitic policies started with the fight against the United Opposition (the "rootless cosmopolitan" label was recognized by all involved as being an anti-Semitic, not an anti-Zionist, slander). You can also see it in relation to the treatment that Molotov's Jewish wife received. And the doctors' trial... night of murdered poets...
As for Pamyat, I don't know and I don't mind if the Soviet government meant to set up a fascist organization. But it sowed the seeds for it, without a single doubt - Vityat's general purpose, of which the purpose you mention was only a part, was to glorify Russian history from a nationalist point of view.
communard resolution
6th August 2008, 23:52
The exact stated aim of the trials was to expose and destroy the "Trotskyite-Titoist-Zionist conspiracy."
Bloody hell, Trotskyite-Titoist-Zionist conspiracy... that's a fun tag indeed.
This is clearly false - the anti-Semitic policies started with the fight against the United Opposition (the "rootless cosmopolitan" label was recognized by all involved as being an anti-Semitic, not an anti-Zionist, slander). You can also see it in relation to the treatment that Molotov's Jewish wife received. And the doctors' trial... night of murdered poets...No, I meant in Poland. Several Jews in leading positions in the 1950s communist government, among them Stalin's so-called "Polish right hand" Jakub Berman.
After the Stalin era: not anymore. Instead: antisemitic campaigns, exiles, etc.
As for the USSR, I guess I'm still finding out.
Stalin Guevara
7th August 2008, 00:02
Apprently stalin befor his death was going to start rounding up the jews
that could be western propaganda, who knows?
my two cents befor im banned again:thumbup1:
communard resolution
7th August 2008, 00:11
Anti-semitism has been a deep problem in Russia for hundreds of years, so of course it continued to exist in the USSR. The USSR was able to suppress nazis, but as we all know they resurfaced rapidly after the collapse.
Yep. See, that's why I'm interested in that mysterious 1960s neo-fascist underground hinted at in the Russian Criminal Tattoo book. Some of the leaders of today's Russian neo-nazi groups are old people, so I'd be interested if the USSR had a history of organized, underground neo-nazism.
Chances are we'll never find out, but Aussie M.L. provided some really interesting information about the prison camps.
communard resolution
7th August 2008, 00:23
The DDR for example did had an active bonehead (Nazi skinhead) scene until it's end. In an internal Stasi report of 1988 there where estimated 800 active neo-Nazis in the DDR at that time (source (http://www.jugendopposition.de/index.php?id=253)). Officially the existence of neo-Nazis has always been denied in the DDR. I guess it was similar in other Soviet bloc states.
Yes, come to think of it there were definitely nazi skins in Poland and Hungary in the 80s as well. They weren't really organized, though, just drunk thugs trying to cause trouble at punk and metal shows.
M-L_Aussie
7th August 2008, 01:16
The idea that Stalin was an antisemite is laughable at best, not only did Stalin write an entire work on the relevance of the struggle against antisemitism, and devoted much time toward those goals.
Furthermore, Stalin supported the formation of Israel because he recognized the anti-British-imperialist stage of the nature of the development of states in the Middle-East.
exatreide
7th August 2008, 02:27
When was the Jewish oblast formed in the soviet union?
communard resolution
7th August 2008, 10:14
When was the Jewish oblast formed in the soviet union?
In 1934.
communard resolution
7th August 2008, 10:16
The idea that Stalin was an antisemite is laughable at best, not only did Stalin write an entire work on the relevance of the struggle against antisemitism, and devoted much time toward those goals.
How do you explain the events that other users have brought up in this thread?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctors'_plot (http://www.anonym.to/?http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctors%27_plot)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_o...Murdered_Poets (http://www.anonym.to/?http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_of_the_Murdered_Poets)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rootless_cosmopolitan (http://www.anonym.to/?http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rootless_cosmopolitan)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prague_Trials
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sl%C3%A1nsk%C3%BD_trial)
Yehuda Stern
8th August 2008, 21:22
All anti-Semites support Israel because they want Jews out of their countries. Balfour, who was the first British politician to make some sort of commitment to support Zionism, was an anti-Semite. That you see support for Israel as something progressive at all just proves something about Stalinism, but not about Stalin not being an anti-Semite.
Chapaev
27th August 2008, 03:43
The charge of widespread anti-Semitism in the USSR and other socialist countries is baseless. On a socioeconomic level, the Jews were perhaps the most prosperous nationality in the country. Many Jews such as Council of Ministers member Veniamin Dymshitz and economist Evsei Liberman were in top state and academic positions. In Poland and Hungary, Jews such as Jakub Berman, Hilary Minc, Matyas Rakosi, and Erno Gero initially dominated the top leadership of the ruling party. In the USSR and other socialist countries the national question, including anti-Semitism, had been solved.
Concerning anti-Semitism in Russia, the social and economic motives of this grew out of the fact that Jews had concentrated on trade, usury, and handicrafts. As commodity-cash relations developed, Jews became a serious threat to the local commercial and handicraft population. countries. The oppression of Ukrainians by Jewish merchants was a significant cause of the Ukrainian Liberation War of 1648-54.
And then there is Zionism, which has been a major contributor to the spread of anti-Semitism. Zionist leaders, expounding ideas of the “age-old” nature of anti-Semitism, call for Jews to isolate themselves from other peoples; in this way they have in effect increased and continue to increase anti-Semitism and utilize it in their own interests.
Yehuda Stern
28th August 2008, 00:28
You still can't explain any of the four major incidents of wild anti-Semitism cited above. That you just call something 'ridiculous' means nothing. Jews were also privileged in medieval Poland for certain reasons, but considering the Khmelnitsky pogroms it would be quite absurd to say that there was no anti-Semitism in Poland.
Chapaev
28th August 2008, 21:19
You still can't explain any of the four major incidents of wild anti-Semitism cited above.
To attribute those cases to anti-Semitism can be disputed by pointing out the presence of Jews in Hungary and Poland in top positions of leadership. Communist Party leaders Gomułka and Kádár themselves had been purged at a time when the top leadership in their nations consisted of many Jews. To characterize the execution of Rudolf Slansky anti-Semitic would be as fallacious as characterizing the executions of Bulgarian Communist Party leader Traicho Kostov and Hungarian Communist Laszlo Rajk as hostility towards Bulgarians and Hungarians.
communard resolution
28th August 2008, 21:31
To attribute those cases to anti-Semitism can be disputed by pointing out the presence of Jews in Hungary and Poland in top positions of leadership. Communist Party leaders Gomułka and Kádár themselves had been purged at a time when the top leadership in their nations consisted of many Jews. To characterize the execution of Rudolf Slansky anti-Semitic would be as fallacious as describing the execution of Bulgarian Communist Party leader Traicho Kostov as a manifestation of anti-Bulgarian sentiment.
I'm originally from Poland, and I see myself forced to bring this up again and again: from the late 60s onwards, the Polish CP used anti-semitic rhetoric whenever it suited them. Moczar initiated an antisemitic campaign in 1968, kicking tutors and students out of universities for no other reason than their being Jewish. Jewish professionals were given a one-way ticket and put on a train to Prague.
The Polish CP continued this fine tradition up until the early 80s when they claimed that Solidarnosc was run by Jews. Mind you, they said "Jews" - not even "rootless cosmopolitans" or some crap like that.
Seriously, what is your motivation for defending a corrupt bunch of scumbags such as the Polish CP?
Chapaev
29th August 2008, 01:34
from the late 60s onwards, the Polish CP used anti-semitic rhetoric whenever it suited them.
The leadership of the Polish United Workers Party repuditated such allegations. The campaign in 1968 was directed against revisionists and Zionists whether they were of Polish or Jewish nationality. When serious anti-Semitic disorder did break out in Poland such as the 1946 pogrom, the Polish Government quickly took action. It's also worth noting that by the late 1960s hardly any Jews remained in Poland.
The Polish CP continued this fine tradition up until the early 80s when they claimed that Solidarnosc was run by Jews.
I am not aware of any statement by a Polish Communist leader making such allegations. If what you say did occur, then it must have been the actions of private individuals.
Seriously, what is your motivation for defending a corrupt bunch of scumbags such as the Polish CP?
I was not addressing the situation in Poland in particular. Nor did I find the leadership of the Polish United Workers Party to be appealling. The purpose of my posts was to defend socialism against slanderous charges of anti-Semitism.
communard resolution
29th August 2008, 09:46
The leadership of the Polish United Workers Party repuditated such allegations. The campaign in 1968 was directed against revisionists and Zionists whether they were of Polish or Jewish nationality.
There were demonstrations held by "revisionists", as you may call them, or leftists students as anyone sane would call them. Moczar decided that "Jews" had been responsible for stirring up the trouble and purged all people of Jewish descent from universities and professional posts, regardless whether they had been involved with the demonstrations or not. This was accompanied by anti-semitic rhetoric which sought to appeal to the Poles' traditional Catholic antisemitic prejudice. Some socialists, the Polish CP!
When serious anti-Semitic disorder did break out in Poland such as the 1946 pogrom, the Polish Government quickly took action. This was long before the anti-semitic purges. I clearly said from the late 60s onwards.
It's also worth noting that by the late 1960s hardly any Jews remained in Poland.No, the truth is that by the early 70s hardly any Jews remained in Poland because the 1968 campaign had prompted a mass Jewish exile.
I am not aware of any statement by a Polish Communist leader making such allegations. If what you say did occur, then it must have been the actions of private individuals.Must have been... In 1981, police were routinely sent to spray the words "Solidarnosc = Jews" on the walls of Warsaw at night - again in an attempt to appeal to traditional Polish antisemitic prejudice.
The purpose of my posts was to defend socialism against slanderous charges of anti-Semitism.These charges are not slanderous, they are the truth as experienced by real people. How dispiriting to see to what lengths some leftists are prepared to go to close their eyes to reality.
If your defense of socialism involves defending the Polish 'communist' scoundrels and whitewashing their long list of crimes against the Polish people (Jewish or not), then you're my enemy no less than any common fascist.
Chapaev
29th August 2008, 22:50
No, the truth is that by the early 70s hardly any Jews remained in Poland because the 1968 campaign had prompted a mass Jewish exile.
When the 1968 crisis broke out, there were only about 40,000 Jews in Poland, down from a postwar population of about 200,000. After 1968, the Jewish population decreased to about 10,000. There simply were not enough Jews in Poland for there to have been a genuinely anti-Semitic campaign.
Moczar decided that "Jews" had been responsible for stirring up the trouble and purged all people of Jewish descent from universities and professional posts
Gomulka himself warned against excessive incitement against all Jews, and he praised those Jews for whom "Poland is the only Fatherland."
communard resolution
3rd September 2008, 20:21
There simply were not enough Jews in Poland for there to have been a genuinely anti-Semitic campaign.
There are always enough Jews for an anti-semitic campaign. It's not a question of numbers. Even if there were no Jews at all, that would still be sufficient because as we both know, it only takes an *imagined* Jewish World Conspiracy to incite antisemitic sentiments.
Gomulka himself warned against excessive incitement against all Jews, and he praised those Jews for whom "Poland is the only Fatherland."How nice of him! So it was okay to be Jewish as long as you were a Polish nationalist rather than an internationalist. That didn't keep Gomulka from sacking all those Jews from their posts and university courses, though, whether they were patriotic Poles or not. My guess would be that he didn't ask them first.
The few Jews that Gomulka left alone (who were no doubt well connected to the party) must have been very proud when he "praised" them for their Polish nationalism. That's the socialist spirit!
Even Goering employed Jews in the Luftwaffe ("I decide who is and who isn't a Jew").
Look: I really wanted to give Stalin a chance and learn the truth behind the accusations of antisemitism. But when people like you claim there was not a trace of antisemitism where I know for a fact that there was a large-scale antisemitic campaign (Poland), then I can only conclude that their defending Stalin's anti-"rootless cosmopolitan" policies has about the same credibility: zero.
Your entries were counter-productive to your cause, but I'm glad you posted them. They have unintentionally brought me several steps closer to the truth.
Chapaev
3rd September 2008, 23:38
How nice of him! So it was okay to be Jewish as long as you were a Polish nationalist rather than an internationalist. That didn't keep Gomulka from sacking all those Jews from their posts and university courses, though, whether they were patriotic Poles or not.
No serious observer concurs with the allegation that Gomulka, the top leader of PZPR, was an anti-Semite. He was even in a mixed marriage with his Jewish wife.
But when people like you claim there was not a trace of antisemitism where I know for a fact that there was a large-scale antisemitic campaign (Poland),
It is not fair to hold the PZPR responsible for the activities of the "Grunwald Patriotic Union".
communard resolution
3rd September 2008, 23:58
He was even in a mixed marriage with his Jewish wife.
This doesn't eradicate what he did to all those Jews that he didn't happen to be married with. Of course, the antisemitic campaign was a means to get rid of the left opposition found mainly in student circles - at the expense of Jewish Poles in general. As I mentioned before, the antisemitic tone was most likely an attempt to appeal to traditional/Catholic Polish antisemitism rather than genuine ethnic hatred. But that doesn't make it any better.
Who says every person in the NSDAP leadership was actually a fervent racist?
Power politics is a filthy business, n'est-ce pas?
It is not fair to hold the PZPR responsible for the activities of the "Grunwald Patriotic Union".The straws at which you are clutching are getting increasingly sparse. The Grunwald Patriotic Union was sponsored by the party, and had their antisemitic policies not been in tune with the party consensus at the time, the party could have easily stopped them.
I suggest we simply end this conversation. You haven't convinced me - in fact, you have even indirectly contributed to my negative impression of Stalin. It's cleverer to admit to mistakes if they were made.
EDIT: I assume you're referring to the antisemitic antics of 1981 in your 'Grunwald' statement. The 1968 campaign, of course, had nothing to do with the Grunwald Patriotic Union whatsover since the GPU didn't exist before the early 80s.
Chapaev
4th September 2008, 01:05
The straws at which you are clutching are getting increasingly sparse. I suggest we simply end this conversation. I acknowledge that I am not in a position to argue about the subject because I only have a general level of knowledge concerning Poland.
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