What will happen when America falls? - if ever [Archive]

Umoja

22nd February 2003, 14:02

It'll fall regardless, just slowly. It'll likely fragment, with certain areas breaking off to avoid the worst effects. Like I can imagine California breaking off to form it's own country if things became really bad, or something like that.

Regardless, it would end the superpower era for a short time, as other countries rushed to fill the void, and people in the former United States (maybe White Nationalist) rushed to restore the United States to it's former glory.... but that's just my perdictions.

Guardia Bolivariano

22nd February 2003, 14:55

The USA will fall It's only a matter of time.I don't believe It will include something like an apocalypse.I think It will just loose power and become a sort of medium power like what happened to the UK.This is the peacefull way, the other alternative is ww3 which It would loose to China and become what Germany became after ww2.

Pete

22nd February 2003, 15:01

I believe that internal fracturing will occur. States going off their seperate ways. Nationalist wars starting between them, the peace keepers rush in and are slaughtered, the world looks the other way and allows the pigs to kill each other, as the leftists rise up and take power in each new republic and ally with cuba making America red.

mentalbunny

22nd February 2003, 16:05

Maybe it will split between north and south, but I doubt many of the states will go it alone. I was talking about the US economically falling, and losing power over the rest of the world, rather than losing in a military way or similar, like loads of big corps going bust and stuff.

Blibblob

22nd February 2003, 16:26

Again, it would take a lot to make america loose its power.

Economically, no country can stand up, cause most likely the US is running them anyways.

Spiteful

22nd February 2003, 18:05

Again, you want people to die to see the collapse of the US. Shameful.

Blibblob

22nd February 2003, 18:13

what?, explain, that doesnt make sense.

Death is inevitable, it is not wanted, but you cant avoid it.

Spiteful

22nd February 2003, 23:01

The US is in a 6 trillion dollar debt yet we're the strongest country in the world. If the US does collapse, every other country will suffer. Get that through your head. Fear a US collapse. To quote CI, "The sun will probably go supernova first."

smith196

22nd February 2003, 23:48

Quote: from Guardia Bolivariano on 2:55 pm on Feb. 22, 2003
The USA will fall It's only a matter of time.I don't believe It will include something like an apocalypse.I think It will just loose power and become a sort of medium power like what happened to the UK.This is the peacefull way, the other alternative is ww3 which It would loose to China and become what Germany became after ww2.

The USA probably will fall in the future. They are a lot of problems in the USA and i can't see Bush solving them only aggravating them.

The USA defintely woudn't lose a war to China. That's riduclous. A navy is the most important part of any miltary force and America's is easily the largest but not the best, the UK can still claim that. Also China's airforce is antiquated. They would stand no chance agaisnt the USA.

redstar2000

23rd February 2003, 00:53

Internal economic collapse followed by communist revolution is the traditional Marxist prognosis...no doubt preceded by a slow waning of economic dominance through the rest of this century.

Another possibility is indeed an imperialist war between capitalist China and capitalist America...likely to involve limited nuclear exchanges (at least I hope they're limited), followed by internal collapse in both countries.

Yet another scenario: a new "cold war" between a communist E.U. and the U.S. that turns "hot".

Or, perhaps as our resident patriots devoutly believe, the American Empire will last until the Sun burns out.* And, pigs will fly!

:cool:

*Our Sun is not massive enough to ever go supernova.

(Edited by redstar2000 at 7:55 pm on Feb. 22, 2003)

Alexander Pop

23rd February 2003, 01:00

NO GREAT EMPIRE HAS LASTED LONG! NEITHER WILL USA!
But I doubt that it'll all end the peaceful way... in the end USA will turn red... but red in blood!... unfortunately i fear that the same fate awaits other countries as well!
And that day is getting near... expect the worse, my brethren and sistren! :(

Spiteful

23rd February 2003, 01:02

Quote: from redstar2000 on 4:53 pm on Feb. 22, 2003

*Our Sun is not massive enough to ever go supernova.

You're right. It will only become a white dwarf. But the quote meant that it'll be impossible for capitalism to die.

synthesis

23rd February 2003, 02:09

Personally, I think the fall of the U.S. will come about when it begins to take anti-Semitic policies.

Analyze the history of any empire - and you'll see that when it starts to attack Jews, it starts going downhill. Don't ask me why.

Seeing that the U.S. is still giving Israel $11 billion dollars per year, I don't think its collapse will happen anytime soon.

Blibblob

23rd February 2003, 02:37

lol, yep

But it will be a detriment to the worlds economy like spiteful said. Thats when the communists come in and fix everything. We fix, become heroes, and capitalism is gone..forever.

RedComrade

23rd February 2003, 06:44

It is my opinion that the only way the U.S will fall at least within the next hundred years is an imperialist war, out of the ashes and destablization that will occur I beleive there is a possibility for a revolutionary state to take power.

Anonymous

23rd February 2003, 07:56

To me, there are three possible (and I use that word lightly in reference to some of these) scenarios that could occur in our (America's) future.

1. We will continue on as we always have. Sure, there will be good times and bad times, but nothing really major that would upset our currently successful capitalist system.

2. Capitalism fails (highly unlikely, if not impossible in my opinion), and the United States collapses into a morass of feuding third world states. Many countries would rush in to fill the power vacum, and many devastating wars would no doubt ensue. Eventually the workers of the world would rise up against the oppressive fascist-capitalist regimes in a glorious proletarian revolution...and well, you know the story.

3. (The most unlikely of all to ever occur) The racists and WNs are correct. Western civilazation will continue to be degraded by the flood of third world immigrants across our borders. The Jews will continue to amalgamate power amongst themselves and their allies, while pushing race mixing as well as moral and ethical degeneracy among our arts and literature. In time, a huge race war would ensue, and out of the ashes of the old powers would arise a new, pure, white nation. Albeit something similar to Francis Yockey's Imperium.

Now to say this is a stupid question, would be an understatement, but...which one would you guys choose? :cheesy:

(Edited by Dark Capitalist at 1:05 pm on Feb. 23, 2003)

synthesis

23rd February 2003, 08:05

I think you arranged their possibilities in the proper order. #3 is basically impossible, and I don't really see #2 occurring the way you spelled it out.

To say that those are the only possibilities, though, is rather silly. What if we declare war on Iraq, for example, and he somehow acquires nuclear weapons and bombs the U.S. to oblivion?

Anonymous

23rd February 2003, 08:14

Of course they're not the only possibilities. Those are just a few I've been toying around with in my head.

"What if we declare war on Iraq, for example, and he somehow acquires nuclear weapons and bombs the U.S. to oblivion?"

If they did aquire nuclear weapons I doubt they would be able to bomb the U.S. into oblivion. The nukes would more likely be used as a blackmail tool.

Starofche

23rd February 2003, 12:14

Money isnt everything. When the economy collapses other countrys will be screwed up also (America has the habit of destroying others lives too) when that happens, like what happened in the first depression countrys will resort to some kind of extremism most likely communism/socialism will prevail but i have a feeling that there will be a national civil war in america with some parts going socialist and some imperialist most likely the imperialists will use nuclear weapons and anything else they can get there hands on to destroy their own people, then they will turn to other countrys which are "red" and even though they are democratic america will nuke them too. reason being is A good percentage of americains are scum plain and simple, call me communist scum! i beg to differ i beleve in everyone equal and people being rewarded for how hard they work not on intellegence so how is this below capitilism? everyman equal Vs. everyman for himself and i doesnt matter who u destroy to get there. any resonable person can see communism being the best option in theory (not always in practise due to curruption, mainly brought on by american influence.

It scares me how you americans are so quick to defend your country. why defend a country that is wrong? dont live by the past live by the future and dont be patriotic its more stupid than being racist! be true to yourself and to justice, human rights and equality not you dog eat dog situation.

Hatred towards america is not rising in the east alone but in the west, you are loosing your influence, when i was a kid i dreamed of moving to america (american dream) now i would rather die than pledge my allegiance to the USA and the small percentage of scum that live in it. Saying this you may think i am indoctrianted into thinking all american are bad but you are wrong some americans are good and the left is rising in america and is trying to educate others too.

Mazdak

23rd February 2003, 17:41

Anti semitism? What empire? Dont give me the Roman Empire bullshit because they were far from being anti semitic. They were far too tolerant. They allowed the jews to have their own currency and keep their own monarch. The jews continuosly revolted, massacring romans indiscriminently. The destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD was a great triumph for the Romans. The jews were in affect persecuting the Romans. The Romans simply retaliated.

The Byzantine Empire fell despite its tolerance for other cultures. Although less tolerant of jews, they were easily more tolerant than the Spaniards.

In fact, the Spanish Empire almost began by persecuting jews yet it became one of the largest empires ever(owning most of the New World is no small feat.)

The Holy Roman Empire was fractioned, so persecution of jews had nothing to do with its collapse.

The 1st Persian Empire was tolerant of the jews yet it fell easily.

The 2nd Persian Empire's tolerance of other religions in general would be its downfall as religious zealots would terrorize its zoroastrian population.

Anything i havent covered?

deimos

23rd February 2003, 18:36

I think that after the collapse of the united states, there will be another capitaistic super power(the EU or China).

(Edited by deimos at 7:40 pm on Feb. 23, 2003)

Blibblob

23rd February 2003, 18:45

NO!, there cant be!

For a while the worlds economy will be in turmoil. WE have to be there to fix that, change it to communism. FIX the world.

But we will all be dead by then, so...

Spiteful

23rd February 2003, 19:39

Just for clarification... Isn't EU, the US?

Blibblob

23rd February 2003, 19:58

in spanish... Estados Unidos

CheViveToday

23rd February 2003, 20:14

As my good 'ol history teacher always used to say...."Of course America will collapse one day, as did the Roman Empire. But I'll be dead, so I don't really give a damn." I think he's right, but I wouldn't mind seeing the USA collapse before my death.

Mazdak

23rd February 2003, 20:36

EU= EUROPEAN UNION.

Pete

23rd February 2003, 20:40

US = United States
EU = European Union

Blibblob

23rd February 2003, 20:55

Oh come on, i knew that. But... mine was a joke. Nobody ever gets my jokes...

The Sniper

23rd February 2003, 21:34

Im all for an EU superpower rising up with Socialist roots and challenging America. Capitilism is a self defeting system so its a matter of when rather than how. Im just hoping Britian will change its tune and join the euro and the EU beofre its too late and then we side with the corrupt Imperalist arseholes across the Ocean.

synthesis

23rd February 2003, 21:51

The jews were in affect persecuting the Romans. The Romans simply retaliated.

Regardless, the action persecuted Jews. I don't see how that proves me wrong at all.

The Byzantine Empire fell despite its tolerance for other cultures. Although less tolerant of jews, they were easily more tolerant than the Spaniards.

http://www.elijahnet.org/A%20History%20of%...ersecution.html (http://www.elijahnet.org/A%20History%20of%20Persecution.html)

The Holy Roman Empire was fractioned, so persecution of jews had nothing to do with its collapse.

I never said that the persecution of Jews had anything to do, directly, with the collapse of the empires. It just seems coincidental, is all.

Moving on, the Holy Roman Empire was Catholic and as such condemned Jews.

http://www.jewishgen.org/databases/GivenNa...es/midlages.htm (http://www.jewishgen.org/databases/GivenNames/midlages.htm)

I don't know too much about the Persian Empires, but I did find this.

http://www.arizonapersian.com/iranopinion/...c8/0000000f.htm (http://www.arizonapersian.com/iranopinion/_disc8/0000000f.htm)

Anything i havent covered?

Well, yeah. Nazi Germany and Stalin's Russia, to name but two.

Mazdak

24th February 2003, 01:59

Your source is pathetic. "Elijahnet.org?" LOL. You might as well have gone to www.Jewsrule.com

The romans reacted. It was wrong for them to defend themselves and their merchants? It was persecution yes. Persecution of the Romans.

Your source on the Byzantines covered roman times as well.

"613: Persecution of the Jews in Spain; all Jews who refused to be baptised had to leave the country. A few years later the remaining Jews were dispossessed, declared as slaves and given to pious "Christians" of position. All children 7 years or over were taken from parents & given to receive a "Christian" education"

Spain doesnt count, as spain at this time was not under Roman control. It was Visigothic. However, this i noticed because they used the idea i advocated and putting a sort of racial twist to it.

"1290: Jews were expelled from England."

Lets see, the British Empire began declining. . . when? Around 1910!!!!

That site is pathetic. They try to make it sound as though all the crusades were directed specifically at them.

"USSR accused 9 doctors (mostly Jewish) of plot to assassinate Soviet leaders."

6 doctors jailed! flee to America, its obvious with numbers like that Stalin was planning to kill them all!

On your last source(once again biased)

"According to Biblical and historical sources, Jews did not only gain freedom but also the favor and financial support of the Persian King, Koroush (Cyrus), to rebuild their communities. Thus decreed King Koroush (Cyrus): " As for the house of God which is at Jerusalem, let the house be built.....And let its cost be given from the king's house. Also let the gold and silver utensils of the house of God, which Nebuchadnezzar took from the house of God and brought to Babylon, be restored and brought again to the temple which is in Jerusalem, each to its place. And you shall put them in the house of God."

Sounds very anti semitic to me.

The only portion that actually is anti semitic is after the fall of Sassanid Persia to the Saracens in 651 AD.

synthesis

24th February 2003, 03:10

It was wrong for them to defend themselves and their merchants?

Look, some Jews did commit crimes against Rome, sure, but did all the Jews of Israel do something against Rome? No.

Some Jews did hold economic control over Nazi Germany, but did all the Jews of Germany affect Nazi Germany negatively?

Regardless, it was a policy that affected all Jews negatively and therefore is effectively anti-Semitic, whether it is justified or not.

mentalbunny

24th February 2003, 14:06

I hate to be a Pessimist but right now it looks like the EU will be a long way from Socialism, although no bdoubt it will pretend to be left of centre, or at least left of most of the world.

deimos

24th February 2003, 17:49

If europe ever falls(if the EU turns into a US kind state) i#ll immigrate to cuba.

Umoja

24th February 2003, 21:26

So sad it didn't work in Ghana, but the country doesn't have enough unity.....

Seriously though, I actually can see the White Nationalist way happening if certain other circumstances happen. Logically, if immigrants start to reach a higher living standard, and whites become a minority, I'm sure a unified white nationalist vision could become possible.

Alexander Pop

26th February 2003, 22:14

Mazdak,... when I spoke of Roman empire I didn't mean in anti-semitic way.... Romans epanded, expanded,... and.... crumbled at the end ... that was my point....

Capitalist Imperial

27th February 2003, 03:13

Quote: from DyerMaker on 8:05 am on Feb. 23, 2003
I think you arranged their possibilities in the proper order. #3 is basically impossible, and I don't really see #2 occurring the way you spelled it out.

To say that those are the only possibilities, though, is rather silly. What if we declare war on Iraq, for example, and he somehow acquires nuclear weapons and bombs the U.S. to oblivion?

He couldn't stockpile enough nukes, and get enough delivery vehicles, and launch them in enough time to do that kind of damage to the USA. His best bet would be to smuggle one in.

In such a case, Iraq would be a parking lot within 10 minutes.

Mazdak

27th February 2003, 23:59

Dyermaker, the point is, the attacks the jews made were because of their religion. To destroy a tree you cut its roots.

Blibblob

28th February 2003, 00:33

*agrees with CI on this one* He wont get any nukes in, but uh, the US will fall. And I god damned hope the "patriotic" bastards fall with it. The whole damn line of this pathetic wave of "patriots" across the world!

RedPirate

28th February 2003, 02:45

The 6 trillion dollar debt will take awhile to get out of, but if so the U$ does economically, somehow, if it falls... ALmost every other country will be in pretty bad shape. Just think if the most powerful country falls... everything following it will fall...

RedComrade

28th February 2003, 04:52

It is precisely at this time when the world is experiencing a global crisis of capitalism (similar to the one experienced in the late 20's 30's) that the revolution has the greatest chance to suceed. If a major recession ever did damage the U.S enough to dislodge its position as a superpower and as consequence all the parasite states and military dictatorships that depend on it were destabalized the chance for a global revolution is no longer a dream. In my opinion it will be very hard to man a sucessful revolution in any time other than extreme economic recession or the period following an extremely disastrous world war that would leave globall institutions weakened to the point were they could not mount a sufficient reaction...

Capitalist Imperial

28th February 2003, 05:44

Keep dreaming, kids...

And then wake up and let your mom change the sheets for you.

Invader Zim

28th February 2003, 09:50

Quote: from Capitalist Imperial on 5:44 am on Feb. 28, 2003
Keep dreaming, kids...

And then wake up and let your mom change the sheets for you.

CI dont be an Idiot, The romans thought their empire would never fall, the greeks to, and the persians, and the babalonions, did i forget the Eygiptions. Ohh and the British empire which was many times more powerful than the USA. Accept it civilisations come and go. America is going.

All the great empires have fallen America will not be an exception.

mentalbunny

28th February 2003, 12:42

If the US falls and takes every other capi country with it then it will be perfect for us, we can put socialism/communism into practocew and it will all be a helluva lot easier for us.

Umoja

1st March 2003, 01:52

It'd be bad, you guys don't seem to understand. Every modern democratic state is extremely capitalist in nature. As such, no Democracy has ever existed without Capitalism, and the effects of global failures without something else to cushion the effects, could be even more disastorous then one would think.

Blibblob

1st March 2003, 02:10

Metalbunny, isnt that what i have said earlier? We pick up the destroyed peices.

The US falling will destroy the worlds economy. IF it falls quickly. But if it slowly declines, than there will be nothing wrong, it will be a slow evolutionary phase.

mentalbunny

1st March 2003, 10:41

Yeah, I know you said it earlier, I just felt it needed to be said again.

Invader Zim

1st March 2003, 11:08

Quote: from Umoja on 1:52 am on Mar. 1, 2003
It'd be bad, you guys don't seem to understand. Every modern democratic state is extremely capitalist in nature. As such, no Democracy has ever existed without Capitalism, and the effects of global failures without something else to cushion the effects, could be even more disastorous then one would think.

That is true but it does not stop the eneviatble that the USA will fall. As all the great empires did.

Capitalist Imperial

3rd March 2003, 05:54

Quote: from AK47 on 9:50 am on Feb. 28, 2003

Quote: from Capitalist Imperial on 5:44 am on Feb. 28, 2003
Keep dreaming, kids...

And then wake up and let your mom change the sheets for you.

CI dont be an Idiot, The romans thought their empire would never fall, the greeks to, and the persians, and the babalonions, did i forget the Eygiptions. Ohh and the British empire which was many times more powerful than the USA. Accept it civilisations come and go. America is going.

All the great empires have fallen America will not be an exception.

Well, at this point, America is only geting stonger, we are still in growth and expansion, not decline. So when you say "America is going" in the present tense, you are entirely innacurate.

And one simple fact, AK-47, we've been through this before, and even you must concede that the British Empire of yesterday would easily fall to the USA today in a full scale war, bottom line. One US carrier battle group would eradicate the whole of Britain's holdings, and that is a fact.

And if you claim that we can't compare the 2 militaries because of the time/technology difference, then by that same rationale we can't compare the two empires at all.

englandsgay

3rd March 2003, 06:58

fools, americans in individual states would never get mad enough with each other to fight as long as their capitalist. it could't collaspe while capitalist only if it turend to socialism and made everyone poor equally. otherwise people have way too much to lose. as for an outside threat attacking it id say the us would nuke the world into oblivion before being conquered by china or anyone else.