USA,Nazi Germany... - characteristics.......

[pastradamus]

Compared with Nazi germany,the US has some pretty close relationship.

NAZI Germany

1: Extreme nationalism
2: Anti-Communist/socialist
3: Anti-Democratic
4: Elements of extreme patiotism
5: Aggressive foriegn Policy


Compared with USA

1: YES
2: YES
3: ?
4: YES (G W bush pictures everywhere,pledge of alligence)
5: YES,YES,YES

[Pete]

3: Yes (George bush got in because off Judges and money, and the electoral college is republican not democratic)

[Tkinter1]

"1: Extreme nationalism"
Opinion...
"2: Anti-Communist/socialist"
Texts on the subject aren't banned as they were in Germany :)
"3: Anti-Democratic"
Only in your mind.
"4: Elements of extreme patiotism"
What about the HUGE anti-war rallies? the organizations that appose the war? that anti-bush sentiment? how do you account for this?
"5: Aggressive foriegn Policy"
OMG you compare it to Germany? Are you really that stupid?!

You're a fool if you actually believe what you're writing

NAZI Germany banned books that were considered dangerous and killed anyone who wrote them. It murdered millions of its own people. Comparing them is nothing short of despicable and wrong.


(Edited by Tkinter1 at 4:19 am on Feb. 22, 2003)

[Liberty Lover]

pastradamus,
Now would be an appropriate time to shove that post up your arse.

[Comrade Daniel]

I totally agree, the united states is anti-democratic. Liberty Lover how old are you to scream out so many stupid words in such a few posts.

[pastradamus]

Its funny seeing you prick cappies try to convince yourself that your system actually has nothing in common with nazism

[Anonymous]

And yours doesn't?


(Edited by Dark Capitalist at 6:59 am on Feb. 23, 2003)

[Spiteful]

What a stupid thread. Positives of the US system outweigh the negatives. Nazism was mainly negative which outweighed the positive.

[Towelly]

All large countries are basically fascist thats how they gain power.

[redstar2000]

History is composed of so many variables that a really close match (or repetition) is extremely unlikely.

Yet history also does seem to have a certain regularity to it...similar causes do tend to lead to similar outcomes.

So let's look at what pastradamus is actually saying...

American nationalism differs from the Nazi variety in that American nationalism is not overtly or formally racist. Underneath the official rhetoric, however, some similarities seem to be present...consider all the "sand nigger" comments after 9/11 or the recent "surrender bunny" remarks directed against the French. And remember that the Vietnamese were "gooks"...until they won.

In contrast to Nazism, there is little that is directly anti-communist in modern American nationalist rhetoric because, for the moment, communism is not considered threatening. Should a large country like France or Brazil "go communist", that would change, of course.

The U.S. is still "freer" than the 3rd Reich, but most constitutional scholars would admit, privately if not publicly, that both common and extraordinary rights of American citizens have been steadily eroded since the end of World War II. You are no longer allowed to smoke a cigarette in a Manhattan restaurant and you may not protest the forthcoming war against Iraq below 59th Street...either is a "crime" punishable by law.

In addition, of course, the so-called "Patriot Act" simply hands the government a "blank check" to imprison or execute anyone without a trial, without a lawyer, and even without a judge. All the government has to do is say that you are a "supporter of terrorism" and they can do anything they want to you...and you have no legal recourse whatsoever. This is a direct copy of the power of the Nazi Gestapo to imprison or execute anyone at will. In this regard, the 4th Reich exists.

In contrast to the 3rd Reich, America does not "burn books"...it buries them. You can find Marxist books in any large public library...but you will have to look hard and wade through a mountain of bourgeois crap to find them (it helps if you know what you're looking for). When those books wear out or become damaged or lost, they are not replaced. In a decade or two, the only place you will still find Marxist books is in university libraries...and on the Internet.

The 3rd Reich was a "one-party" state. Many consider with good reason that America is also a one party state...the Republican-Democratic Party. They give us a show every two years or four years...but they're both firmly in the grip of the major corporations. One reason that crops up over and over again when potential voters are asked why they don't vote: there's no difference between them. That's true.

The smilarities between the 3rd Reich and America in the area of foreign policy are glaringly obvious! The United States now has military forces in far more countries than Germany did at the height of the 3rd Reich...we are now engaged in combat in Afghanistan, the Phillippines, and Colombia while preparing for Iraq. Next it will be Korea or Iran or Cuba or Venezuela or...

It was said rhetorically that "Hitler wanted to conquer the world"...but Hitler's dream is becoming an American reality.

One parallel that pastradamus neglected to spell out, possibly because he thought that it was so obvious that it didn't need to be mentioned. So let's mention it.

The Third Reich was a capitalist country dominated by huge corporations. And America is...well, you get the idea.

Sieg heil, baby!

:cool:

(Edited by redstar2000 at 8:56 pm on Feb. 22, 2003)

[synthesis]

I wouldn't say America is extremely Nationalist. We have one million Mexicans coming here per year. In fact, the nationalists, for the most part, have it worse than us socialists do. (When was the last time you saw a Klansman portrayed positively in the media, for example?)

OMG you compare it to Germany? Are you really that stupid?!

It's a perfectly viable comparison. America is much better domestically than Germany was, but it really does have a much worse foreign policy. Do I really need to bring out the list of U.S. foreign interventions again?

Now would be an appropriate time to shove that post up your arse.

What a stupid thing to say.

All large countries are basically fascist thats how they gain power.

See previous response.

Positives of the US system outweigh the negatives. Nazism was mainly negative which outweighed the positive.

Nice supporting evidence you've got there.

As for anti-democratic, how can a system with privately owned means of production be truly democratic when its means of production aren't?

[Xvall]

I would not nececarilly equate the United States to Nazi Germany. If I recall; Hitler won the popular vote! Anyways, it's late now. And I have to argue against something; so here we go!

"1: Extreme nationalism"
Opinion...

I must disagree; as I see nationalism every day. Outside, American flags everywhere. Military advertisements on television that children in grade school are forced to watch every morning. A mandatory pledge of allegiance in most schools. Every single news network seems to have adopted and incorporated the America flag or the American colors into their logo in some form or another. I see pleanty of nationalism around here.

"2: Anti-Communist/socialist"
Texts on the subject aren't banned as they were in Germany

Agreed. But nonetheless, the country seems to have a strong anti-soialistic stance.

"3: Anti-Democratic"
Only in your mind.

And in Congress.

"4: Elements of extreme patiotism"
What about the HUGE anti-war rallies? the organizations that appose the war? that anti-bush sentiment? how do you account for this?

Of course. However, I think Pa is pointing out how the country is becoming very nationalistic. Although, like you stated, of course, not everyone agrees with what the government does.

"5: Aggressive foriegn Policy"
OMG you compare it to Germany? Are you really that stupid?!

I wouldn't say his comparison is stupid. I doubt he is comparing it EXACTLY to that of Germany (I don't think the U.S has attempted to invade Europe) but simply showing how they share certain aspects. However, these are shared by other countries as well.

Of course; I in no way think that the United States is anywhere near the same as Nazi Germany. If they were; I would have been already gassed. And they don't seem to be rounding up inferior social/ethnic groups . . . Yet.

[antieverything]

Is nobody going to point out the most glaring similarity...the incredibly high percentage of the population in prison?!

[timbaly]

Extreme nationalism doesn't seem all that evident in NYC. Many people here seem to have more alligence to where their parents were born than too the U.S. But i see signs of that slowly changing especially after 9/11. But the nationalism in Germany was far more extreme than in America. If you call america extreme, than nazi germany most be called extremely extereme.

[Pete]

"And they don't seem to be rounding up inferior social/ethnic groups . . . Yet."

Are they not discrimanting against people of mid eastern descent? A well respected Canadian author who was born in Pakistan was harassed so much he cancelled his tour of the United States. People are being held with out habeas corpus since 2001 are they not? Mostly of Mid Eastern descent?

[Tkinter1]

"Is nobody going to point out the most glaring similarity...the incredibly high percentage of the population in prison?!"

The prison overcrowding situation in the US is a problem, but the reasons for prison overcrowding in the two nations are completley different.

Nazi - based on ethnicity, dissidents(mostly political enemies)

US - based on poor drug policy


"Are they not discrimanting against people of mid eastern descent?"

You know DAMN well why that is. Stop being an idiot, and wake up.

[Palmares]

it is only a slight similarity.

Germany = Fascist = Worst

USA = Capitalist = Bad

[Pete]

"You know DAMN well why that is. Stop being an idiot, and wake up"

Whoa Tkinter! I was asking a rhetorical question. I know the answer, and so does everyone. They just seem to be ignoring it. By asking the question I am reminding them that racsial discrimination exists in America. Maybe you should wake up!

[timbaly]

By racial discrimination, do you mean profiling. I think racial profiling is justified. So far all the suicide hijackers were muslims. So wouldn't it only make sense to search arabs at the airport before you search the 75 year old grandma? I'm not saying that arabs are the only possible hijackers but they're more likely to be than other races.

[Palmares]

Quote: from timbaly on 1:54 pm on Feb. 24, 2003
By racial discrimination, do you mean profiling. I think racial profiling is justified. So far all the suicide hijackers were muslims. So wouldn't it only make sense to search arabs at the airport before you search the 75 year old grandma? I'm not saying that arabs are the only possible hijackers but they're more likely to be than other races.

How about a white guy in white robes, a burning cross and ... yeah.. nevermind.

[Guest1]

Well, the best comparison is the yellow arm-ba... I mean the ID cards they've forced all arabs to get. As if a real terrorist would go and get an ID card and tell you where he is.

[Tkinter1]

"How about a white guy in white robes, a burning cross and ... yeah.. nevermind."

Yeah becuase they've been such a huge threat to the public nowadays

"...By asking the question I am reminding them that racsial discrimination exists in America. Maybe you should wake up!"

Exactly as timbaly said. It's racial profiling, not racial discrimination.

[timbaly]

Quote: from Cthenthar on 11:06 pm on Feb. 24, 2003
How about a white guy in white robes, a burning cross and ... yeah.. nevermind.


OK i know you're reffering to Klansmen. But what exactly are you implying?

[Pete]

It's racial profiling, not racial discrimination.

Soo many article to pick from. I have the best in print.
Toronto Star 1 (http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1035777999054&call_page=TS_News&call_pageid=968332188492&call_pagepath=News/News)
Toronto Star 2 (http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1035777963622&call_page=TS_News&call_pageid=968332188492&call_pagepath=News/News)
Toronto Star 3 (http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1035777994328&call_page=TS_Opinion&call_pageid=968256290124&call_pagepath=News/Opinion)

That takes both sides of the issue of Racial Profiling by Toronto Police. Yet it still equates racial profiling to a form of racism, which is a form of discrimanation.

[Edelweiss]

Nothing is or ever will be compareable to Nazi Germany, all comparisons are inappropriate, unhistorical, and just an relativation of the Nazi crimes. So just stop it, please.

[Exploited Class]

Quote: from Malte on 5:23 am on Feb. 25, 2003
Nothing is or ever will be comparable to Nazi Germany, all comparisons are inappropriate, unhistorical, and just an relativation of the Nazi crimes. So just stop it, please.

I'd agree that nothing is comparable to Nazi Germany in detail, and I hope that nothing of that nature ever occurs again. I hope it never occurs again because people have healthy debates on comparing modern day to that time. I think it excellent to be alert and on guard with our present actions to past, keen to the past will guard against making the same mistakes of the past.

One of the things we do is dislike somebody currently, be it some against Saddam, before it was Milosevich, tomorrow it might the ruler of Iran or whoever the flavor of hate might be next week. It could be that you hate America, in any case media, politicians, government whoever will try to get you to hate that group. The most common way is to compare them to the devil or Hitler/Nazi's. We've heard Bush use the term Hitlerism[sic] to urge hatred towards Saddam, its an easy tactic. One that is being used here today by the left.

It is good to compare and contrast from the past. But it can weaken an argument very quickly to use Nazi's as your sole comparison. "Do you know who else wanted to take away guns? Nazi's. Do you know who else wanted ________ insert what you dislike here and then add Nazi or Hitler at the end. Be it free healthcare..ect.

It is good to doing strike some examples, like did you know that in Nazi Germany there never was a law passed that forced anybody to put up a nazi flag? Somebody will say really? And you can say, yes really. People did it out fear whether loyal or not the party. It's called national pride..ect..ect
Now go out into America and notice how many flags are on things. More houses than ever, 1 out of 4 cars have American flags or stickers, buisnesses, the TV stations have it at the bottom of the screen..ect..ect
It is excellent to show exactly how you are comparing anything contempory to the past.

This ignorant, "Big Military, they had a big military" or "Put jews in prison, puts arabs in prison."
Doing this you could compare a daisy to nazi germany.

It is good to learn how fear and hate and other tools the nazi power implaced to gain and control the populace. But just using them as a weapon to weild at whatever group you currently dislike has absolutely no value to anybody.

[timbaly]

Quote: from CrazyPete on 10:46 pm on Feb. 25, 2003
It's racial profiling, not racial discrimination.

Soo many article to pick from. I have the best in print.
Toronto Star 1 (http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1035777999054&call_page=TS_News&call_pageid=968332188492&call_pagepath=News/News)
Toronto Star 2 (http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1035777963622&call_page=TS_News&call_pageid=968332188492&call_pagepath=News/News)
Toronto Star 3 (http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1035777994328&call_page=TS_Opinion&call_pageid=968256290124&call_pagepath=News/Opinion)

That takes both sides of the issue of Racial Profiling by Toronto Police. Yet it still equates racial profiling to a form of racism, which is a form of discrimanation.



If a white man commits a crime and is caught on a security camera doing it the police will now be in pursuit of the man. They will have a description of him based on what was caught on tape. Now a police officer sees a man that fits the profile so he pulls the guy over. Now I ask you why wouldn't he use race as a reason to pull the guy over? Why would you pull over a black man, while looking for a white man? Race is a fairly easy thing to determine, so it should be used when searching for criminals.