Capitalism...ideology?

[Hegemonicretribution]

Is capitalism actually an ideology, or just a make shift sytem? Most of us here are aiming for some sort of perfect system, the cappies know this as well, and they realise what they have isn't perfect, but is capitalism actually an ideology? If so can some one highlight for me the main points?

I realise that capitalism can allow the oppurtunity of people to succeed, but at the expense of others. Then again you could reach the top in feudalism as well. It is becoming harder and harder for people to break through now in capitalism, and it seems that we are almost heading back to a form of feudalism.

Are capitalists defending the current sytem from what the left has produced so far, or what it wishes to produce? This is purely an ideology question...ideally would capitalists still stay with this system and why? With everything that the ideologies so frequently discussed here have to offer.

[Tkinter1]

Why don't you read The Wealth of Nations? you can probably find it on google.

[Hegemonicretribution]

I was only posting this to hear the oppinion of some of the cappies on this board. But I am going away for the weekend so I'll check when I get back.

[Tkinter1]

Why don't you read The Wealth of Nations?

[Saint-Just]

Yes, capitalism is an ideology. Its purest form is discussed in anything by Friedman for free market economics and Hayeck for its philosophy. Both American, Reagan and Thatcher most notably subscribing to their views.

Very basically since it disgusts me to talk about such things; free market economics believes the free market is the most efficient way of allocating resources and it believes it is the most fair and free way. Hayeck talks about freedoms etc., and specifically he says that socialism induces serfdom i.e. losing your freedom as you become subsistent on others.

[Anonymous]

Don't forget about Mises and Rand.

[Moskitto]

was that Thatcher was American or Hayeck was American?

[CruelVerdad]

capitalism an ideology? Don´t really know...
Capitalism --> only people that are in upper-middle class support it.

[Tkinter1]

"Capitalism --> only people that are in upper-middle class support it."

Not true.

[Liberty Lover]

'The Wealth of Nations' author, Adam Smith, argued that private competition free from regulation produces and distributes wealth better than government-regulated markets. Since 1776, when Smith produced his work, his argument has been used to justify capitalism and discourage government intervention in trade and exchange. Smith believed that private businesses seeking their own interests organize the economy most efficiently, "as if by an invisible hand."

[Liberty Lover]

In answer to hegemonicretrobution's question, what Marx called capitalism is not an ideaology as such. It has been around since antiquity and it didn't begin with the writing of a manifesto. It is simply a part of human nature.

[Moskitto]

Quote: from Tkinter1 on 7:34 am on Feb. 22, 2003
"Capitalism --> only people that are in upper-middle class support it."

Not true.


what ideology you support is not based on what class you're part of.

[mentalbunny]

Rember AK when he joined? He wasn't upper clas or anything but he supported capitalism (although he's changed a bit now!).

The workers want the chance to climb the ladder, and capitalism gives them this, whereas Communism seems to make everyone a worker with no chance of advancement (operative word being "seem" ).

(Edited by mentalbunny at 12:22 pm on Feb. 22, 2003)

[Blibblob]

OOOO!!! YES!

I am in the upper class. Upper middle class. Based on my social standing, i should be a full fledged capitalist, cause that is what will get me somewhere. But im communist, some of what i have i will have to give up to help people.

Defining where somebody stands by their class doesnt work anymore. Many poor people are capitalist. And some rich people are communist.

[Pete]

I read somewhere that (paraphrasing) "It is most oftenthe oppressed who support the oppresser because they are unable to see their chains"

[Blibblob]

Allegory of the cave-plato

not the quote, just falls along the same lines.

[mentalbunny]

Mr Blibblob seems to be on really good form at the moment, that's a great connection between Plato and what CrazyPete said, and it's also very true, one of the left's greatest problems in mty opinion.

[redstar2000]

Since support for communism is not wide-spread at the present time, it's perhaps a bit academic to debate the relationship between ideology and class.

Nevertheless, I disagree with some of the previous posts...I think a working class person who has been exposed to communist ideas is much more likely to endorse those ideas than someone from the middle or upper classes.

The catch is in the phrase "who has been exposed", of course. Education for working class and poor people in most capitalist countries is so wretched that basic literacy is problematical...much less exposure to any serious political/economic ideas.

Middle-class kids go to good suburban high schools; upper-class kids get the best private education that money can buy. Naturally, a few of them will see that Marxism makes more sense than the crude, self-serving apologetics typical of bourgeois political/economic theory.

So, at the moment at least, it "looks" like more middle-class and upper-class kids support communism than working class or poor kids. Looks are sometimes deceiving.

:cool:

[Hegemonicretribution]

Just got back. Will read the Wealth of Nations tonight.

[Saint-Just]

Quote: from Moskitto on 8:22 pm on Feb. 21, 2003
was that Thatcher was American or Hayeck was American?


Hayeck was American. Friedman was too. Thatcher was from hell...dunno what nationality that is.

[Saint-Just]

Quote: from Liberty Lover on 8:30 am on Feb. 22, 2003
In answer to hegemonicretrobution's question, what Marx called capitalism is not an ideaology as such. It has been around since antiquity and it didn't begin with the writing of a manifesto. It is simply a part of human nature.


It did develope through objective human action, in its formation of society and human interaction there in.

People such as Adam Smith, then later Friedman, Hayeck, developed it into an ideology. What is pure capitalism, is known as neo-liberalism. That is what to some extent Smith and moreover Friedman and Hayeck developed.

Neo-liberalism is the anti-thesis of communism. Anarchy is he anti-thesis of Fascism and so on.