A Important History lesson - what they teach you in school

[Cassius Clay]

Here is a example of what the brilliant education system teaches us about one Josef Stalin in the most detailed manner backed up by facts and evidence all the time.

''Today in school I got to see a movie about... Stalin. It was a French documentary founded by the US from the late 70's. These movies sure are a good way to learn facts about people! Don't believe me? Here's all its claims about the subject... And they made me laugh (because of its stupidity), cry (when I learnt that they were serious) and vomit (at the verious pictures of the "brillian Trotsky", more on that later)!

At the begining, we get to learn about Stalin's childhood. It was pretty objective here. A minute passes and we get to know that he joined the Bolsheivik party. Then WWI starts where "Stalin deserted as the coward he was" and then revolution breaks out where "Stalin played no role at all". Two minutes were dedicated to the worship of Trotsky whom "Stalin hated because he was a Jew".

Civil war is over. Lenin starts to "capitalize Russia" (wtf? Lenin... Capitalist?!!) and every one lives happily ever after. A minute or so is dedicated to Stalin's supposed gang-rape of a girl whom he later married "to avoid the charges of rape".

Let's take a break here and release the massive amount of laughter from out throats.
There. Ready for part 2, "Post Civil Commie Land"?

Stalin makes his first serious bids for power. He poisons Lenin, kills rivals and rapes women.

1924. Stalin begins his reign by "sending Jews, intellectuals and enemies to himself to Gulags" and tries to industralize the country with this free workforce (out of which 60% died, appareantly). Then comes the Moscow trials where a zillion people were arrested for making jokes about Stalin. Then he sends lodz and lodz of Jews to his concentration Gulags.

His reign of terror continues... He kills Kirov, allies with Nazi Germany, kills the brilliant Russian hero and savior of the revolution and creator of the Red Army, Leon Trotsky and kills more Jews for fun.

In 1941 Russia is invaded. Stalin proclaims that Russia is defeated twenty days after. But the people refuse to surrender because the mad Georgian told him so! Despite the fact that there's no military leadership at all (they all shot themselves or joined the Germans) they fight on! Stalin repeatedly tells them to surrender to the superior forces, but they refuse to!! In 1942 the tide of war changes since the UK and America sends the Russian's weapons. Finally, something else than our bare hands to fight with!

1945. A mass grave of Jews is found. Stalin killed them all. But who cares? Victory is near! Thanks to the American's generousity, at least. Then Stalin expands his reign of terror Westwards. All of Eastern Europe is behind an Iron Curtain. Stalin tries to kill all remaining Jews in Europe, but they flee to Israel.

Then in 1953 every one's happy! Stalin dies, and thanks to Kruzhy every one's as free and happy they can be under a Bolsheivik dictatorship!!''

From a Comrade from Soviet-Empire.

[Hegemonicretribution]

Where abouts is that from?

[Guardia Bolivariano]

This explains alot about the american's knowledge of history.

[ComradeJunichi]

That's pretty much what history classes are like around here.

[Hegemonicretribution]

Quote: from Guardia Bolivariano on 1:40 pm on Feb. 20, 2003
This explains alot about the american's knowledge of history.


Any other boards I have ever visited, music or whatever, always end up semi political. Americans arguing the second world war is one of the funniest things I have ever seen :) (Of course not refering to all the well educated leftists here ;)) You can't argue with Hollywood I s'pose...but of course they are true to the spirit of the event even if the facts are slight re-arranged.

[Pete]

Atleast in Canada we learned how America invaded Russia in 1919 along with Canada and Britian and France to fight the evil communists!

Try talking to Americans about WWI or The War of 1812 it's just as hard

[thursday night]

The education system here in Canada is under the control of many special interest groups (such as the rediculously powerful teacher's union) and these special interest groups tend to be of an anti-American slate, so from what I hear in the schools kids are taught a little less unbiased history.

Nevertheless that is beyond hillarious what you posted, Comrade Clay. :D

[Tkinter1]

Stop with this bullshit. I go to an American public school. It's nothing like cassius(or the rest of you for that matter) is portraying it. I've never watched a video that was this OFF. This is either a lie by cassius, or a gross manipulation of the content. Christ you make it seem like this video is state mandated or something, and that it's broadcasted every day like our government believes we're at war with commies again, and we need to be bombarded with propoganda so as not to "switch over"..... Like there's some body of old fat Capitalists trying to keep the kids in line, and molded. And only the enlightened "armchair revolutionaries(CI)" on this site can see right through the "American iron curtain".

Let me assure the rest of you (who don't go to American schools) that this is not standard American school video content. This doesn't remotley resemble anything I've EVER seen in the libraries, or in the classroom. Again this is either a lie, or a complete and utter exaggeration.

And who are you guys to defend stalin anyway...what do you care about Stalin? I'm sure you wouldn't be complaining if a video exaggerated some of the things that Pinochet or Batista did...

[Palmares]

My 20th Century History lessons sound much like that. Can anyone (especially Cassius Clay) say what really happened then?

[Cassius Clay]

Tkinter 1 and others the fact that you've come to the conclusion that that was from a American in America surely says something doesn't it. I never once implied that and you jump to that conclusion.

No it is not a lie, atleast on my behalf. The comrade who originally posted it I know does not come from America, I am actually not sure of their precise ethnic background and anyway I wouldn't post it here since that person may not wan't their details to be all over the internet (okay slight overexageration but you know what I mean).

Only Thursday got the point of it, and that's that it is simply funny. Tkinter 1, whether or not your a socialist or not I'm going to point out that the Capitalists are allway's at war with the working classes. I'm not going to go into why I defend Stalin in this thread, if you wan't to debate then join the 'Authoritarians' or 'American on Josef Stalin' threads.

[Tkinter1]

Since anti-us sentiment is abundant here, you can see how I came to that conclusion. I apologise.

[CruelVerdad]

ooo, nice things they teach you at school....
The problem is that the educational system is under strict control, and things that you learn in school about socialism, communism and war change from country to country.
In the end they cause desconcertation.

[commie kg]

Quote: from Tkinter1 on 7:35 pm on Feb. 20, 2003
Stop with this bullshit. I go to an American public school. It's nothing like cassius(or the rest of you for that matter) is portraying it. I've never watched a video that was this OFF. This is either a lie by cassius, or a gross manipulation of the content. Christ you make it seem like this video is state mandated or something, and that it's broadcasted every day like our government believes we're at war with commies again, and we need to be bombarded with propoganda so as not to "switch over"..... Like there's some body of old fat Capitalists trying to keep the kids in line, and molded. And only the enlightened "armchair revolutionaries(CI)" on this site can see right through the "American iron curtain".

Let me assure the rest of you (who don't go to American schools) that this is not standard American school video content. This doesn't remotley resemble anything I've EVER seen in the libraries, or in the classroom. Again this is either a lie, or a complete and utter exaggeration.

And who are you guys to defend stalin anyway...what do you care about Stalin? I'm sure you wouldn't be complaining if a video exaggerated some of the things that Pinochet or Batista did...


I'm not going to defend stalin, he was an asshole, but...

I go to an American public school as well, and I have encountered these situations.
My history book defines Communism as "A form of government that relies on dictatorial control and oppression of the people's basic rights." Anyone who knows ANYTHING about the communist system knows this is a lie. Even my hard-core right wing teacher says so. Then, it turns around and defines Socialism as "a peaceful, democratic system where some free enterprise is allowed." Thats an ok definition, but not good enough for me.
And according to my history book, the Vietnam War and the Korean Conflict never happened. Not a single mention. it goes from WWII straight to the collapse of the berlin wall.

at my school any "anti-patriotic" behavior is frowned upon. kids tote around pro-Bush stickers and shirts like "Don't mess with Texas" w/ a bush pic and a texan flag emblazoned on the front, and "Stick a boot in their ass, it's the american way" I don't know where that one came from.

Today, a student in "Vis-Com" class made a video of George Bush's state of the union speech, with the text "Would you give your life for this?" and "Think for yourself" while showing us warplanes bombing cities and troops storming houses. It was aired school-wide in 2nd period. It was very moving and of course, the school pronounced it "disturbing" and most students didn't like it either. That kid took alot of shit for it.

[Tkinter1]

"My history book defines Communism as "A form of government that relies on dictatorial control and oppression of the people's basic rights.""

Hm. I'd like to know the name of that book becuase mine defines it EXACTLY as this: "Community in which all property is held in common, and physical needs are provided for in exchange for work at assigned jobs".
(the book is "World Cultures - a global mosaic", Prentice Hall publications")

"And according to my history book, the Vietnam War and the Korean Conflict never happened."

Well my book from 9th grade had sections dedicated to both. Prentice Hall publications again. What grade are you in? Are you sure your not studying it in other grades?


"at my school any "anti-patriotic" behavior is frowned upon. kids tote around pro-Bush stickers and shirts like "Don't mess with Texas" w/ a bush pic and a texan flag emblazoned on the front, and "Stick a boot in their ass, it's the american way" I don't know where that one came from."

LOL. Kid your in Texas... What do you expect? This clarifies everything lol, im serious.

"It was very moving and of course, the school pronounced it "disturbing" and most students didn't like it either. That kid took alot of shit for it."

I find it interesting how they didn't watch the video first(check to see if it is appropriate), and then tell him he couldn't play it. Don't teachers usally do this?

I have to say(if what you said is true) I am very offended by your schools inaccuracy and incompletion of its texts. I would like to know who published those books.

[Blibblob]

Wait....communism?

What is that....isnt it that evil thingy...that...its...a...thingy...


The history text books spend less than a page on communism and socailism. Not a single thing i have learned about communism in my history classes.
My english teacher is quite unbiased and we discussed some communism (she is a semi-communist).

But over all, the school system tries to avoid teaching about communism, and anything else that is against the US government. It is a requirement for "socialization" or brainwashing.


Ah yes...one more thing. I got the shit beaten out of me by a couple of "patriotic" bastards cause (it amazed me that they actually knew what it was) i had a red star on my backpack.

(Edited by Blibblob at 7:21 am on Feb. 22, 2003)

[RedComrade]

I go to American public schools in the midwest in a town of about 20,000. Sadly enough the video Cassius described is not far off from what we are taught in school. I happened to be popular before people found out i was a communist so I am not a complete outcast now but the backlash, especially from parents, was truly amazing. I had a fucking redneck come up to me while i was hanging with my friends and give me a thirty minute speech on coming to christ and the evils of atheistic bolshevism. I am serious the people out here are really brainwashed, communism is right up there with nazism, and the idea of a good objective book on communism is "the Black Book of Communism" *shudder*. Those same time of videos are what we watch in class to learn about "alternative forms of government" my school conselor pulled me out of class last year and gave me a speech on how i was going down the wrong path and acused me of worshiping Joseph Stalin. A week after i was suspended from school for 3 days after sticking a kleenex behind my ear cuz my pants didnt hav pockets, a bit crude but certainly not sumthing you punish a kid for. It was on my 4th disciplinary referall and most kids average about 5 a year and the most punishment they get is a 3 hour after school detention. My 3 other referalls were for being tardy an offense thats hardly punishable. I have no doubt about why i was suspended it was ideological warfare. That same stupid school counselor who gave me a talk told 3 of my friends parents that i was preaching atheism, anti-americanism, and stalinism to their boys, after discovering i was communist 2 of my closest friends cant have me over anymore and before i was noted as the most polite well behaved of the youth. Tkinter no matter how much you deny it clays post is a horrible but realalistic example of the propaganda employed by the powers that be and its results are much more disturbing.

[Invader Zim]

Quote: from Cthenthar on 8:29 am on Feb. 21, 2003
My 20th Century History lessons sound much like that. Can anyone (especially Cassius Clay) say what really happened then?


A very basic version of events. Its not long because i really cant be bothered.

Stalin was chucked out of Russia a few times for being a "terrorist". Came back rose through the commi party.
Lenin dies. Stalin tricks Trotskey into not attending the funeral of Lenin. Other political propagander to the people ect, eventualy becomes leader of the party.

Sends many of his political opponents to the consentration camps.

Second world war.....

After war becomes increasingly parinoid ect. Starts puting those who he suspects of trying to dipose him in the goolags ect.

Later massacers half his army, because he susspects they want to dipose him.

Dies.

Total death count suspected around 20,000,000. Though some suspect it was upto 60,000,000.

Very brief. And im sure that Cassius will deni it all. And say that Stalin wore a Halo, fed the starving and adopted the orphens.

[Tkinter1]

So I guess I must be the only one who attends an American public school who isn't fed complete bullshit.... That makes a lot of sense.

[Cassius Clay]

''A very basic version of events. Its not long because i really cant be bothered.''

Correct very basic indeed. Infact the below is almost as stupid as the orginall post.


''Stalin was chucked out of Russia a few times for being a "terrorist". Came back rose through the commi party.
Lenin dies. Stalin tricks Trotskey into not attending the funeral of Lenin.''

Stop you right there. First of all do you seriesly expect anybody to believe that Trotsky has no other means of communication of finding out the date of the funeral other than Stalin ('A grey blur' according to TrotskY) ? Second of all for years we here Trotsky saying never trust Stalin, yet Trotsky is doing that precisly here. Third and most importantly Stalin tricked no one, the date was orginally on the Sunday it was changed because so many people wanted to see Lenin's coffin. That's what happened, FACT and also Trotsky as a leading government minister surely would of been able to order a special train or something to get to Moscow. While tens of thousands are able to travel (and find out the correct date of the funeral) from the most distance areas Trotsky somehow can't find out the date or get there. Righttttttt.

Trotsky didn't turn up because of his arrogance.

''Other political propagander to the people ect, eventualy becomes leader of the party.''

Stalin became GS of the party after Lenin nominated him, his position as leader was confirmed after the rank and file gave the oppostion less than 6000 votes out over 725,000 votes cast. Not 'He eventually becomes leader of the party through propaganda'.


''Sends many of his political opponents to the consentration camps.''

Whom did he send to 'concentration camps'? In the late 20's a Red Army officer threatened to cut Stalin's ear off simply because he was 'Georgian', no what nothing happened to the guy until he was arrested as being part of the military coup plotters in the late 30's and shot.

''After war becomes increasingly parinoid ect. Starts puting those who he suspects of trying to dipose him in the goolags ect.''

And yet capital punishment is abolished after the war for five years, while Stalin is 'becoming increasingly parinoid'.


''Later massacers half his army, because he susspects they want to dipose him.''

FACT, 7% of the Red Army's officer corps were 'purged' a small minority of them actually arrested and a even smaller number shot.

''Total death count suspected around 20,000,000. Though some suspect it was upto 60,000,000.''

Yeah go back to whatever Fascist source you got this from and help him or her indulge in their wet dream by posting the above rubbish here.

''Very brief. And im sure that Cassius will deni it all. And say that Stalin wore a Halo, fed the starving and adopted the orphens.''

Well do you actually have any evidence to back up what you wrote? No ofcourse you don't, as for 'fed the starving' well Collectivisation tripled the amount of protein a peasant had so yeah I suppose he did.

[RedComrade]

If your inferring I'm exagerating the bullshit theyve taught us at school might i ask were you live? See i live in a semi-rural community in the 2nd most conservative state in the union, it is also one of the wealthiest, and the few burgeois who went to college know fear when they hear communist, it really is as i said it was. People here are extremely ignorant and extremely uneducated on everything but religion and making money those things that are hostile to religion or money are EXTREMELY infuriating to them, they are a flock of sheep with fangs and never cease to disgust me with their stupidity

[Blibblob]

Red, i completely believe you. I was an outcast in the first place so the downfall wasnt much. The few friend I have dont believe in communism, but they arent jerks about it. But the rest *shudders*, my parents hardly know, i plan on keeping it that way.

[Xvall]

It really does depend on the teacher, tinker. For example; at my school, there are some leftish teachers that would probably give me an unbiased view of communism; however, my republiklan teacher decided it was best to tell us that communism is a system in which, "The government controls your property, ideas, and actions. They control everything." Now, afterwards I decided to look in the manifesto; and no where did it imply that the government was to rule over the common person.

[Tkinter1]

Drake, did your book give the same definition?

and Red, I live in just outside of Philadelphia, Pennsylvania(mix of lower middle, middle, and upper middle class..more so upper middle nowadays).

I would still like to know the names of the books that give incorrect definitions, and inaccurate accounts of history.

[commie kg]

here Tkinter1:

"Glencoe/McGraw-Hill World History"

here's some stuff I dug up about the company that made the book... Glencoe McGraw-Hill is accused of "spreading multi-cultural stereotypes and racism."

http://www.textbookleague.org/101perv.htm

BTW, I'm not in Texas, I'm in Seattle.

[Tkinter1]

That article has absolutley nothing to do with what we're talking about....Kepp digging.