Irish Politics Anybody?

[PasserBy]

Hello,

I've just signed up for Revleft, and I am here because I need help with a certain political topic that I haven't been able to fathom so far: Irish politics and the English-Irish conflict.

I am really interested in Ireland and its political situation. I've been interested since I first learned of Bobby Sands and the Hunger Strike of '81, and ever since then, I've been trying to educate my self about the Irish situation, but to no avail.

Unlike Middle Eastern or Latin American politics, which one can find lots of articles, books and news sources on, the Irish conflict seems to be a bit more ambiguous and a bit less known (at least in the part of the world where I come from).

I tried to search the internet, but I was overwhelmed by the results that more often than not aided in confusing me rather than clarifying things for me.

I've been following RevLeft for a while now, and I've noticed that there are quite a few Irish people in here, and I thought maybe they could help me. :)

I would really appreciate it if anybody, Irish or not, as along as they are well-informed on the Irish situation can help me with my questions and inquiries

1) May you please write me a list with the names of the best Journalists and Political Analysts specialized in Irish Politics/ Irish-English Conflict?

2) May you please write me a list of books, interviews or publications, on Irish Politics/ Irish-English Conflict?

3) May you please give me a summary of the following:

a) Irish History since the first English invasion until the turn of the 20th century (If not, at least give me a website that discusses the most important events).

b) Irish History starting from the turn of the 20th century up until the troubles.

c) Irish History from the Troubles till present day.

d) IRA movement: Good or Bad? What is the difference between the various factions of the IRA? What is the role of the Sinn Fein?
4) May you please inform me of the general stand of English Leftists on the conflict in Ireland?

5) Would expressing support for the IRA, or at least commemorating Bobby Sands be considered a crime in England?

Thank you in advance for your help.

[mykittyhasaboner]

off the top of my head, i know James Connolly wrote works about socialism in Ireland, i hope that helps.

http://www.marxists.org/archive/connolly/index.htm

but im not very informed about the conflict, so i dont know any others. sorry.

[Pirate turtle the 11th]

5 - No but people think you are a tosser if you do (bobby sands not so much if your with catholics).

[Jorge Miguel]

1) May you please write me a list with the names of the best Journalists and Political Analysts specialized in Irish Politics/ Irish-English Conflict? The journalists with perhaps the most credibility for factual reporting and good analysis in my opinion would be Eamonn McCann (also a member of the SWP), Suzanne Breen, Ed Moloney (another SWP member). I have heard British journalist Peter Taylor's books and documentaries are also good. Many of the journalists who deal with Ireland repeat verbatim the bits and pieces leaked by British intelligence.


2) May you please write me a list of books, interviews or publications, on Irish Politics/ Irish-English Conflict? Check out Bowyer Bell's 'The Secret Army' it is the authoritative book on the IRA from 1919 to publication. There is quite a good bit on the rise of the Marxists in the 60s within the Republican Movement.

Ed Moloney's 'Secret History of the IRA' is also quite good.

There is also the Ta Power Document - which was an attempt at a resolution of the failure of party-army relations within Republicanism.

Finally, there is an excellent book called 'Republicanism and Socialism in Ireland' available from Peter Lang.


c) Irish History from the Troubles till present day.

d) IRA movement: Good or Bad? What is the difference between the various factions of the IRA? What is the role of the Sinn Fein? The conflict ended up in a defeat for the national liberation forces. Sinn Féin signed the Good Friday Agreement which was constructed on the basis and demands of the British ruling class. The Provisional IRA are associated with Sinn Féin. They are usually referred to without any prefix in the media.

The other groups that also use the name of the IRA include:
Official IRA - Aligned to the Workers Party. On Ceasefire since 1972. Marxist.
Real IRA - Aligned to the 32CSM. Currently not on ceasefire.
Continuity IRA - Aligned to Republican Sinn Féin. Currently not on ceasefire.


4) May you please inform me of the general stand of English Leftists on the conflict in Ireland? The general stance was support for the IRA. This represented quite a difficulty as they're now unable to explain how the IRA ended up defeated. Some sections of the British left, particularly CPGB(ML) and the Socialist Labour Party still support Sinn Féin and the IRA. Both Sinn Féin and the IRA are right-wing organisations.

There are sections of the British left, most notably the Socialist Party that are pro-imperialist. They support the Good Friday Agreement/Partition. When the Good Friday Agreement was being floated as an idea they toured Billy Hutchinson, a member of the UVF murder gang and convicted sectarian murderer, around England under the title 'No Going Back'.


5) Would expressing support for the IRA, or at least commemorating Bobby Sands be considered a crime in England?Yes. Supporting the IRA Is illegal under the Terrorism 2000 act. I shouldn't worry though, the Provisionals are as much a part of the status quo as Gordon Browne.

[PasserBy]

Thanks everybody for the help, especially "Ich bin ein Berliner".

I will make sure I check what you've referred me to.



Both Sinn Féin and the IRA are right-wing organisations.


I am slighlty confused here. Is this your opinion, or is it their official stand? :confused:

I was under the impression that they were left-wing.

[Jorge Miguel]

Is this your opinion, or is it their official stand?It's just my opinion but I will explain.

Sinn Féin project a socialist exterior and use images of Che Guevara, James Connolly, etc. Their youth organisation has went as far to quote Mao in their 'Revolutionary Handbook'. But this is all posturing. It's a deception to hook in young impressionable recruits.

Sinn Féin has introduced or at least been partially responsible for water charges, PFI, including the privitisation of schools in northern Ireland. Their economic programme is of the right. This is encapsulated by the words of party President Gerry Adams when he said 'Sinn Féin is not anti-business; Sinn Féin is pro-business.'

[PasserBy]

It's just my opinion but I will explain.

Sinn Féin project a socialist exterior and use images of Che Guevara, James Connolly, etc. Their youth organisation has went as far to quote Mao in their 'Revolutionary Handbook'. But this is all posturing. It's a deception to hook in young impressionable recruits.

Sinn Féin has introduced or at least been partially responsible for water charges, PFI, including the privitisation of schools in northern Ireland. Their economic programme is of the right. This is encapsulated by the words of party President Gerry Adams when he said 'Sinn Féin is not anti-business; Sinn Féin is pro-business.'

Thank you for the explanation. I was completely unaware of that.

I believe I have a lot of learning to do before I can actually make any judgments.

[Pogue]

I'll try to share what I know. I won't be 100% accurate because I'm going from my memory/education, so forgive any mistakes or generalisations.

On Sinn Fein - They're more social democratic, but like most social democratic parties, they're moving to the right.

Expressing support for the IRA in the UK would not be met well due to the fact that the IRA bombed the UK killing many civilians. This is inexcusable. All sides of this conflict did bad though. I don't know enough but obviously theres Loyalist killings and British Army killings too.

Most people don't know of the existence of the earlier IRA, the one before the 80's, who thought the Black & Tans - this IRA were much more admirable.
Ireland was considered by many to be a anarchist or at least proto-anarchist society for hundreds of years prior to Cromwells invasion in the 1600's (although some say the invasion of Ireland by people from Britain happened as early as 1200, I believe), and when Cromwell invaded, the Irish people were pushed to the west of the island.

Many people were raped. murdered, tortured. Cromwell was a brutal bastard.
I don't know much on the intervening periods, except that the Irish people were treated badly. The majority of Ireland was Catholic, so the Catholics were oppressed. I.e., they would own the minority of the land, laws would discrminiate against them. They'd be impoverished, etc.

There were numerous groups for Irish republicanism/national liberation throughout the history of the island, theres names of famous groups/figures I'll get for you when I've read over some of my books on the subject, but a real strong resistance began growing in the late 1800's to early 1900's, this culminating in the Easter rising/rebellion in 1916.

Here, the Irish Citizens Army and another group, I can't remember the exact name, someone will clairfy this for me, otherwise I'll do it, tried to spark a popular armed uprising agains tthe British rule, which was brutal. There was, at this period, a 'police' force in Ireland, the Black and Tans, who were basically British soldiers who were sent over to Ireland. They were know for their brutality. They were mostly scum, basicaly. I've never heard anything good said of them, from any source.

The uprising had some of the more famous members of the Irish liberation movement, such as the Socialist James Connolly. Ah I've got the name of the groups. The Irish Republican Brotherhood and the Irish Citizens Army, and the Irish Volunteers, and Cumann na mBan.

This uprising could of been succesful but it was called off at the last minute so only a few of the solider son the Irish liberation side turned up to fight, but they fought bravely and fiercely. There were problems due ot lack of arms/men, and the strategy was not great, e.g. the GPO was seized, a prominent building but easy to attack and hard to defend. Plus, as was not expected by the Irish liberation fighters, the British did indeed shell their own buildings, which is something they planned on not happening.

After a brave attempt by the Irish liberation fighters (note this is jsut a umbrella term I'm using to describe anyone who fought the British soldiers, it wasn't an official name), the rebellion was put down, and many members of the rebellion were killed, including James Connolly, who was shot by firing squad while being strapped to a chair, because he couldn't walk due to his injuries from the fighting.

Here on in I know less, and I'd just be quoting wikipedia at you if I tried to look it up.
There was the war against the British, to liberate Ireland, the Irish Free State, then the civil war.

I'll leave it to more knowledgeable comrades to expand upon what I've said and fill in the gaps and give more detail. This is just what I could remember at 11:40pm without looking at my sources. Hope it helped. :)

[PasserBy]

Thank you H-L-V-S.

[Philosophical Materialist]

H-L-V-S gave a good summary above.

Here are some more sources which you may find useful:

Liz Curtis - 'The Cause of Ireland - from the United Irishmen to Partition' (Beyond the Pale Publications Belfast 1994)

Tim Pat Coogan - 'The Troubles - Ireland's Ordeal 1966-1995 and the Search for Peace' (Hutchinson London 1995) (now published by Arrow)

T A Jackson - 'Ireland Her Own' (Lawrence & Wishart London) (extends from ancient Ireland up to 1970)

Jack O'Brien - 'British Brutality in Ireland' (The Mercier Press, Cork and Dublin 1989)

Richard Bennett - 'The Black and Tans' (Barnes & Noble NY 1995)

Peter Beresford Ellis - 'Orangeism - Myth and Reality' (Connolly Association 1998)

Liz Curtis - 'Nothing But the Same Old Story - the Roots of Anti-Irish Racism' (Sasta)

Thomas Gallagher - 'Paddy's Lament - Ireland 1846-1847 - Prelude to Hatred' (Poolbeg Press Ireland 1994)

Cecil Woodham-Smith - 'The Great Hunger' (Hamish Hamilton London 1962) (recommended for politics of the Great Famine)

Ken Keable - 'The Missing Piece in the Peace Peace Process - why British people must campaign for Britain to withdraw from Northern Ireland' 3rd Edition (Connolly's Publications 2007)

[Dr Mindbender]

if you want to learn about loyalist murders, the 'shankill butchers' by Martin Dillon is an (albeit shocking)engrossing read.

[ComradeG1967]

If you want to read about British Imperialism, Google "Irish Holocaust". Unfortunately I am unable to post a link die to the post count requirement.