Working Class hero?

[Cohacq]

We all know of Lennon's song, Working Class hero, and I myself see it as an anthem to all workers of the world, and tell us of the grim reality of capitalism.

But, I've also heard some people saying that he's just a burgoise (sp?) sellout who tries to gain points with the working class.

What is your opinion on the song, a workers anthem or a burgoise (sp? again) try to gain more money by singing about what the workers care about?

[Mod-ist]

It's a workers anthem as he wrote it when he was marxist.

[comrade stalin guevara]

the lyric are so beautiful.
definitly workers anthem

[comrade stalin guevara]

As soon as your born they make you feel small,
By giving you no time instead of it all,
Till the pain is so big you feel nothing at all,
A working class hero is something to be,
A working class hero is something to be.
They hurt you at home and they hit you at school,
They hate you if you're clever and they despise a fool,
Till you're so fucking crazy you can't follow their rules,
A working class hero is something to be,
A working class hero is something to be.
When they've tortured and scared you for twenty odd years,
Then they expect you to pick a career,
When you can't really function you're so full of fear,
A working class hero is something to be,
A working class hero is something to be.
Keep you doped with religion and sex and TV,
And you think you're so clever and classless and free,
But you're still fucking peasents as far as I can see,
A working class hero is something to be,
A working class hero is something to be.
There's room at the top they are telling you still,
But first you must learn how to smile as you kill,
If you want to be like the folks on the hill,
A working class hero is something to be.
A working class hero is something to be.
If you want to be a hero well just follow me,
If you want to be a hero well just follow me.

[Sasha]

[start rant and rave mode] where is the option: its a song by a midle class wanker apealing to liberal slummers who see them self as the vangaurd to lead those people who they see as not capeble off wipping their own arse.
fucking knight in shining armor complex partonising gits, lets sit around and talk a lot about saving the seals/envoriment/workers/blacks or if they do sommething they try to take over their strugle instead of actualy helping. [end rant and rave mode]

[Holden Caulfield]

^^ yeah but it is a good song,

i think 9 to 5 by dolly parton is a workers anthem:thumbup:

[Incendiarism]

It's a good song. Green Day version made me die a little.

It's best to look at it in the abstract, though, I suppose...I mean, this was a guy who had a storage room for his fur coats or something.

[Trystan]

^^ yeah but it is a good song,

i think 9 to 5 by dolly parton is a workers anthem:thumbup:

A rousing fusion of Marxist alienation, country music, and the then emerging pop music of the time. A working class classic as much as it is a musical one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpKAA2VxWY8

In the video she is taunted by bourgeois cartoon characters, creating a despotic atmosphere in a horrid corporate nightmare.

:thumbup1: :p

[Comrade Nadezhda]

John Lennon was at the least very petty-bourgeoisie, so obviously he was not working-class. Hippies in general are not working-class. He was a peace-screaming-liberal-hippie, not of working-class background. He was a reformist.

I do however like the song as I like a wide-variety of music

[Trystan]

not of working-class background. He was a reformist.


Not true! He most certainly was working-class! From Liverpool. :)

[Comrade Nadezhda]

Not true! He most certainly was working-class! From Liverpool. :)
Well, he certainly fell under the liberal BS that "freedom of speech" and holding a sign with a few lines ever meant anything. And well, the peace movement was not working-class. I know a lot about the peace movement and it was full of the most idealism.

[Pirate Utopian]

Who gives a fuck?, great song!
Songs are songs they arent the people who make them.

[Sugar Hill Kevis]

Third option, it's a good song?

[Uber]

It's a great song with a good political message. My favourite solo Lennon song after Imagine.

[Sasha]

imagine??? jesus fucking christ, excuse my french but next you'r probilly going to say that you like "al we are saying, is give peace a chance"as well.
i must admit that i like a lot of the beatle songs (espacely the dopier/druggie onces, like i'm the walruss, i mean that almost as trippie as the book of revalations :cool:) but i think after the beatles went solo mark chapman did the world a huge favour. :lol:

[rocker935]

Well, he certainly fell under the liberal BS that "freedom of speech" and holding a sign with a few lines ever meant anything. And well, the peace movement was not working-class. I know a lot about the peace movement and it was full of the most idealism.

I may have mis-interpreted what you said but if you are trying to say there is something wrong with freedom of speech then you can go to fukin hell you authoritarian prick.

[INDK]

Third option, it's a good song?

This.

It's a good song, with good lyrics, but it's not like the workers' anthem, and it's not a capitalist sellout song, no matter how much of a capitalist sellout the writer was (not to say Lennon was a capitalist sellout, I never got too immersed in the history of John Lennon).

[rocker935]

I think you should all see the documentary "The U.S. vs. John Lennon". Its about how the U.S. saw Lennon a bigger enemy than Mao. Well maybe not a BIGGER enemy, but pretty damn close.

[Fawkes]

Fuck John Lennon and the rest of the Beatles. He was a hippie piece of shit that was trying to appeal to middle class liberals that see themselves as the saviors for people too ignorant to save themselves, and fuck that.

[Mindtoaster]

Fuck John Lennon and the rest of the Beatles. He was a hippie piece of shit that was trying to appeal to middle class liberals that see themselves as the saviors for people too ignorant to save themselves, and fuck that.

This

Its a good tune though :(

[redarmyfaction38]

Fuck John Lennon and the rest of the Beatles. He was a hippie piece of shit that was trying to appeal to middle class liberals that see themselves as the saviors for people too ignorant to save themselves, and fuck that.
you're so wrong mate, john lennon was working class, he did the whole liberal capitalist shit and came back to where he as a youth started from, hating the establishment, not giving any value to the material wealth he had gathered etc. etc.
i was not a fan of "hippies", i was skinhead, a working class youth listening to ska and motown.
the beatles however, liked the ska and motown talked about my lfe at the time.
you cannot seperate the the times from the music or the actions the music inspired.

[redarmyfaction38]

Fuck John Lennon and the rest of the Beatles. He was a hippie piece of shit that was trying to appeal to middle class liberals that see themselves as the saviors for people too ignorant to save themselves, and fuck that.
the other bit that bothers me, the quotes at the end of your post, don't belong to suburban rebels or whatever, they are songs sung by billy bragg and by others before him long before your favourite commercial artists were ever born

[Rex0230]

meh

[Fawkes]

the other bit that bothers me, the quotes at the end of your post, don't belong to suburban rebels or whatever, they are songs sung by billy bragg and by others before him long before your favourite commercial artists were ever born
I know that "To Have and To Have Not" was by Billy Bragg, I'm not an idiot. I like the version by the Bastards better, therefore I quoted that one. What does that even mean, a commercial artist? Let me guess, you're referencing the fact that Lars is in Rancid, right? Tim Armstrong is a douche, but there's nothing wrong with being signed to Hellcat and Epitaph, an independent label. Also, Suburban Rebels is a song by The Business, not a cover, at least as far as I know. You don't even know the music I listen to, fuck off.

Also, where did I say he wasn't working class? Regardless of his roots, he wasn't working class as a musician, but I never even said that, I said he was a hippie piece of shit.

[Red Anarchist of Love]

jhon lennons songs Imagane, give peace a chance, and working class hero are inspireing songs for us ALL. His music and rebelion to injustice was his gift to the world. jhon lennon had a lot of power and choice to use it to help change the system for those that the system lets down. that why the goverment had to kill him. using a mad man.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GpsF_0-ta_A

Power to the people
Power to the people
Power to the people
Power to the people
Power to the people
Power to the people
Power to the people
Power to the people, right on

Say you want a revolution
We better get on right away
Well you get on your feet
And out on the street

Singing power to the people
Power to the people
Power to the people
Power to the people, right on

A million workers working for nothing
You better give 'em what they really own
We got to put you down
When we come into town

Singing power to the people
Power to the people
Power to the people
Power to the people, right on

I gotta ask you comrades and brothers
How do you treat you own woman back home
She got to be herself
So she can free herself

Singing power to the people
Power to the people
Power to the people
Power to the people, right on
Now, now, now, now

Oh well, power to the people
Power to the people
Power to the people
Power to the people, right on

Yeah, power to the people
Power to the people
Power to the people
Power to the people, right on

Power to the people
Power to the people
Power to the people
Power to the people, right on

[Pirate Utopian]

Although the real revolutionary hippy was David Peel :cool:

Sure Lennon was a rich millionaire and all that but... in the end it doesnt matter on his music at all.
Even though The Monkees are commercial and fake as hell, I'm Not You're Steppin' Stone remains a classic.

[rednordman]

Im pretty sure that John Lennon came from a very rough working class background in Liverpool. To be growing up in those days, if you couldnt do things right first time you got punished and was generally considered a failure, so i can see where he conjured up those lyrics from. To say that he is a middle class liberal sell out is a little far fetched and unfair imo. Ok he did appeal to the same people that Fawkes mentioned in his post, and sod them all, but when i first heard this song i could not help but think that the lyrics where so solid and true they could almost be set in stone (and i'm not even a fan of his tbh). It,s a great song that isnt very complex but uses all the right lines, and i think it appeals to most people in some way or another (apart from the rich and powerfull ofcoarse). I remember when i first heard it while almost killing myself labouring at work and just stopped and listened to the lyrics and thinking this guys just sang the stories of most of the work forces (including mine) lives in a few minutes:lol:.

[JimmyJazz]

What is your opinion on the song, a workers anthem or a burgoise (sp? again) try to gain more money by singing about what the workers care about?

These are my only options? :lol:

Hey guys, what do you think about the song "Old MacDonald Had A Farm", does it teach children the vowel-using abilities they will need to overthrow the system or does it glorify bourgeois scum like Old MacDonald by naturalizing his ownership of a piece of the means of food production?

[cop an Attitude]

idc if he made money out of the song, it promotes class conciousness. I remember I was getting into the beatles when I heard that song in 9th grade, long before I had any political stand point. I heard it and instantly looked up the lyrics.

"Keep you doped with religion and sex and TV, and you think you're so clever and classless and free, but you're still fucking peasents as far as I can see,"

That line really caught my eye and from then on i had, at least a little, class conciousness. It happend to me so i assumed it did to others too, espacially the fact that the lines are so clear in the song. Its a great workers athem.

[Slave Revolt]

Woah, whats all the hatred for? Let me get the this right, you hate the Beatles and all hippies? For the most part the hippy movement was against a brutal war in Vietnam, the fact that most of them were middle class doesn't mean they are the enemies of the working class.

Why do you you have so much contempt for these people? Because they are anti-war?

[Sasha]

Cock Sparrer Where Are They Now lyrics


I believed in julie when she said how easy it could be
And I believed in Tommy and his written words of anarchy
And I believed in Joe when he said we had to fight
And I believed in Jimmy when he told us to unite
[Chorus]
Where are they now
Where are they now
Where are they, six years on and they've all gone
Now it's all turned sour
Where are they now
Hollywood nights in Soho
Writing on the wall of The Roxy loo
Rotten on the telly
Showing what a few choice words can do
Was it ever worth it
Causing all the fuss
You know, I believed in them
Don't you believe in us
[Chorus]
No more kids are innocent
We will get fooled again
Only faces ever change
The song remains the same
Was it ever worth it
Causing all the fuss
You know, I believed in them
Don't you believe in us
[Chorus]
Where are they now....

[Fawkes]

Woah, whats all the hatred for? Let me get the this right, you hate the Beatles and all hippies? For the most part the hippy movement was against a brutal war in Vietnam, the fact that most of them were middle class doesn't mean they are the enemies of the working class.

Why do you you have so much contempt for these people? Because they are anti-war?

Because they represent so many things that I hate:
Pacifism
Shitty music
Leeching off of the work of others even though most come from a degree of wealth
Drug-induced philosophy (there's nothing I hate more than philosophical stoners)
And a lot of others.

[Pirate Utopian]

Not all hippie music was shit.
Like Jimi Hendrix and all those garage rock bands, I love Nuggets.

Grateful Dead, CSN&Y, Joni Mitchell and all that softy ilk is cringeworthy though.

[ev]

The Beatles and John Lennon are overrated! They were sellouts to the mainstream, what did they accomplish with all their money and influence? :huh:

[Sasha]

a realy good (and sincere leftist) band from the same era is MC5: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MC5

[Bilan]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuRbIocUffw

Better. Working class man.

[Led Zeppelin]

Grateful Dead, CSN&Y, Joni Mitchell and all that softy ilk is cringeworthy though.

Erm, no, Grateful Dead rocks.

Case in point:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NEE8oURdM0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0877FWNLZ98

[Hit The North]

The Beatles and John Lennon are overrated! They were sellouts to the mainstream, what did they accomplish with all their money and influence? :huh:

"Sell outs to the mainstream"? You need to study the history of popular culture, mate. When the Beatles emerged in the early sixties, there was only the mainstream. Pop music was just another branch of show biz: disposable, under-rated, patronised and censored by straight men from the entertainment establishment. It's only during the unfolding of the 1960s and due to the efforts of committed, outspoken musicians like John Lennon, that popular music freed itself from the tyranny of the mainstream and imposed itself as an art form in its own right.

BTW, it doesn't matter about the class origins or class destination of Lennon as an individual, it matters what he wrote about and what he stood for. During the late 60s and early 70s, Lennon embraced and became a spokesman for a number of radical causes which could have, and to some extent did, jeopardise his commercial appeal. In interviews of the time, Lennon is very forthright and very realistic about the limits of the impact he can have as an individual, no matter how famous. But he also expressed the desire to use that fame to speak about things worth saying.

Working Class Hero, for me, accurately sums up what it felt like to be working class growing up in Britain - and for that, Lennon deserves some credit as a song writer.

[Pirate Utopian]

Erm, no, Grateful Dead rocks.
Hmm... I'll try this when I'm high and I'll get back to you.:)

[Fawkes]

Not all hippie music was shit.
Like Jimi Hendrix and all those garage rock bands, I love Nuggets.

Grateful Dead, CSN&Y, Joni Mitchell and all that softy ilk is cringeworthy though.
Yeah, Hendrix wasn't bad, but I was referring more to bands like the Grateful Dead and Quicksilver Messenger Service.

[Led Zeppelin]

Hmm... I'll try this when I'm high and I'll get back to you.:)

Cool, check these out too:

The well-known hippie-era quote "what a long strange trip it's been" is from this song.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BsYKqPGn1d4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcAaJw8fL2Y

[Forward Union]

We all know of Lennon's song, Working Class hero, and I myself see it as an anthem to all workers of the world, and tell us of the grim reality of capitalism.

John had a special cupboard with in built refrigiration for his fur coat. He was obviously a fucking capitalist and this song was made becuase it'd sell well.

[Pirate Utopian]

The well-known hippie-era quote "what a long strange trip it's been" is from this song.
I do know music history. :closedeyes: Even if I dont like all the bands in it.

[Hit The North]

John had a special cupboard with in built refrigiration for his fur coat. He was obviously a fucking capitalist and this song was made becuase it'd sell well.

Firstly, the song was an album track, not a stand alone tune that "would sell well". Secondly, it belongs to his first solo album which is meant to be autobiographical, grappling with issues from his childhood; so he's not pretending to be "a working class hero" in 1970 in the vague hope that everyone wouldn't notice the amazing wealth surrounding him. Thirdly, no matter how fab/gear/unnecessary/decadent (choose one) it is to have a refrigerated closet for your fur coat, it does not mean that Lennon was a capitalist. He would need to own means of production for that to be true.

And no doubt he dreamt of a utopian future where even the humblest member of society will have a fridge as big as a wardrobe. :p

I think I deserve one. Don't you?

[Slave Revolt]

Because they represent so many things that I hate:
Pacifism
Shitty music
Leeching off of the work of others even though most come from a degree of wealth
Drug-induced philosophy (there's nothing I hate more than philosophical stoners)
And a lot of others.

You sound more like a grumpy old conservative than a radical leftist. The hippies had a large impact in the 60s. They were an important part of the civil rights movement and were anti-imperialist.

You can't just brush off every one who isn't a communist as ignorant and meaningless and accept the pluralism of the world. Traditionally thats one thing the left has done much better than the right in, but obviously not you.

[Vanguard1917]

"Keep you doped with religion and sex and TV, and you think you're so clever and classless and free, but you're still fucking peasents as far as I can see,"

That line really caught my eye and from then on i had, at least a little, class conciousness. It happend to me so i assumed it did to others too, espacially the fact that the lines are so clear in the song. Its a great workers athem.

What's so good about that line? It's precisely that line which completely puts me off the song.

There's nothing radical about referring to working class people as doped-up and brain-dead 'fucking peasants'. It reeks of snobby middle class prejudice, in fact.

[ashaman1324]

i love the song.
i love the beatles.
the song wasn't intended as a worker's anthem i have no doubt. it was just sort of... adopted?
i voted as a workers anthem because thats what it parallels best with.

[Malakangga]

workers anthem

[gorillafuck]

I prefer to think of it as just a good song.

[Foldered]

What's so good about that line? It's precisely that line which completely puts me off the song.

There's nothing radical about referring to working class people as doped-up and brain-dead 'fucking peasants'. It reeks of snobby middle class prejudice, in fact.
It does not. "Fucking peasants" are those who aren't doing anything to abolish the class system. It's a plea for support of a revolution. Transcend being doped up brain dead peasants; abolish class.

The quote is out of context and has obviously been misinterpreted.

[Coggeh]

To call john lennon a "liberal middle class pussy" or whatever you must call any major leftist artist the same i.e rage against the machine , anti-flag etc don't jusge john lennon by the "softness" of his music but by the message it provokes . He was an icon and that song followed with tom morellos quotes:
"You don't have to be loud to be heavy as shit and a good song makes you want to tap your feet and get with your girl a great song makes you want to riot and set fire to the suburbs I'm only interested in writing great songs " ... working class hero is a great song .. to me :thumbup1:

[Agrippa]

Whoever called Jimi Hendrix a "hippie" should be punched.

[Pirate Utopian]

Just because you dont like hippies doesnt mean Jimi wasnt one, he was and he's okay.

[Foldered]

Exactly. How is doing a lot of acid, sleeping with a bunch of women, wearing gypsy clothing, and coming up with insane guitar riffs not characteristic of a hippie?

[PostAnarchy]

Agreed. His music was good stuff. :thumbup1:

[Drace]

I dunno how you can consider it a "capitalist sellout"

[LOLseph Stalin]

I voted worker's anthem. The lyrics are so inspiring and quite true too, looking at what members of the working class have to go through.

[PostAnarchy]

i love the song.
i love the beatles.
the song wasn't intended as a worker's anthem i have no doubt. it was just sort of... adopted?
i voted as a workers anthem because thats what it parallels best with.


This.

[The Intransigent Faction]

I think you should all see the documentary "The U.S. vs. John Lennon". Its about how the U.S. saw Lennon a bigger enemy than Mao. Well maybe not a BIGGER enemy, but pretty damn close.

I saw that. Very revealing indeed.
I do like a lot of Lennon's work. I know that "Imagine" and "Give Peace A chance" aren't exactly 100% revolutionary in the way most pf us would like. However, regardless of his idealism, it's not that tough to empathize with Lennon's vision.
"Imagine" for example, I try to infer as a vision of the world as it would be once Communism is achieved...no private property (no possessions), no hunger, no religion, relative peace, etc.
One could criticize Lennon and others for making money from this song and thus contributing to the system, but that would seem to fall into the reactionary "How can you criticize Capitalism? Look at what this system's allowed you to have!" line. People have to make a living somehow, and as has been said many times, we unfortunately live in a Capitalist system and sometimes have to use the system against itself.
Remember that "A capitalist will sell you the rope with which to hang him".
RevLeft has Google ads, after all, but I won't whine about that.
Of course, idealistically, what Lennon said appealed to many who weren't necessarily revolutionary, but who might perhaps be close. My mother, for one, has said that she agrees with what Lennon says/sings, but when it comes down to actually putting much of it into practice, she and many others fall back on "It looks good on paper, but...".

[redarmyfaction38]

[start rant and rave mode] where is the option: its a song by a midle class wanker apealing to liberal slummers who see them self as the vangaurd to lead those people who they see as not capeble off wipping their own arse.
fucking knight in shining armor complex partonising gits, lets sit around and talk a lot about saving the seals/envoriment/workers/blacks or if they do sommething they try to take over their strugle instead of actualy helping. [end rant and rave mode]
john lennon was working class.
the fact that he appealed in the first instance to a load of middle class hippies is neither here nor there.
his experience of being brought up in the english educational system, being educated into the lies and assumptions of a fallen empire is one that most politically aware english people can relate to.
his actions were mainly progressive, his songs were mainly progressive and more importantly his questioning of assumptions both politically left and right.
personally, can't see any harm in that.
and don't even begin to pretend for a moment that "power to the people" doesn't inspire you to kick the shit out of the fascists and the capitalist system they believe in.
oops! emotion.

[Decolonize The Left]

Wow, apparently a whole bunch of you are horribly ignorant of your history and feel it necessary to throw your naivety all over some seriously awesome music.

John Lennon? Working class - don't believe me? Look here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_lennon). You can read all about it in the first section.

Jimi Hendrix? Awesome. Best guitarist ever. Period. All you little punk-lovers out there ought to be thanking Jimi Hendrix for making your favorite guitarist look like a two-year-old with a toy.

The Grateful Dead? Even more awesome than Jimi. 6 hour concerts? No problem. None of this "we're gonna play our set and leave" nonsense. Serious thanks to LZ for posting the videos - their live concerts could rival anyone.

Joni Mitchell? Amazing. One of the most chilling voices I've ever heard. Furthermore, she's one of the greatest songwriters I can think of. Did she write whiny "I'm pissed off" punk music involving four bar chords? No. Children can do that.

But to the point, it's not a worker's anthym unless you want it to be one. I'd say it is because the message is simple and straight-forward.

- August

[BlackCapital]

Just out of curiosity, what is fueling this extreme contempt for hippies in some of you?

I understand its not exactly the epitome of a revolutionary ideology and perhaps too idealistic, but it was essentially a social movement of youth who were disillusioned with the societies they lived in. Regardless of what class they were, they opposed the state for many similar reasons a socialist would(notably civil liberties,war), and I think it was a genuine counter-culture.

And ever heard of the Diggers? They sprung right out of Haight-Ashbury with the hippies, envisioned what is essentially an anarcho-communist society and engaged in providing free food, free stores, ect.

They were not willing to use violence to achieve revolution and were unrealistic about peace, but I still don't understand why they should be laughed at or scorned.

[StalinFanboy]

John Lennon was at the least very petty-bourgeoisie, so obviously he was not working-class. Hippies in general are not working-class. He was a peace-screaming-liberal-hippie, not of working-class background. He was a reformist.

I do however like the song as I like a wide-variety of music
Bullshit. A lot of the first hippies were working class. And they fucked shit up for serious.

[brigadista]

working class hero is a good song -sadly it was all downhill after that ..not a john lennon/beatles fan

[Pogue]

The only song he made I really liked.

[abbielives!]

Just out of curiosity, what is fueling this extreme contempt for hippies in some of you?




they have internalized right-wing propaganda. hippies are a myth, a construction of the capitalist press, a caricature by by the churches etc, to defame groups which seek greater social freedom (as well as political and economic freedom in some cases)

[Red Solidarity]

John Lennon influenced a lot of people but I prefer the down to earth late Joe Strummer RIP as a working class hero.

[Some Red Guy]

I like the song. All the Beatles / Lennon songs aren't great though, but this one I have no trouble with. Good lyrics, good music. I voted workers anthem.

[Hit The North]

John Lennon influenced a lot of people but I prefer the down to earth late Joe Strummer RIP as a working class hero.

Joe was the son of a diplomat.

[Picky Bugger]

If its good enough for the Manics to cover then it is good enough for me.

Its a working class anthem whether he regarded it as one or not.

[punisa]

Working Class Hero is a song that's right up there with Internationale ! Every word speaks volumes about our struggle. Just for writing that single song, John deserved all my gratitude.

Speaking of, I've made a cover of the song accompanied with a video, you're all invited to take a peak: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7H1rVibuMY

Even if you hate the song, and I see some of you do, perhaps the you'll like the video background :)

[MikeSC]

"I want to write songs for the revolution..."

For at least a short time, Lennon considered himself a Marxist. Around the time this song was released. By the time of that famous 1980 Playboy interview he seems to have turned into an.... unsavoury... bourgeois (reading that interview, it's really hard to like him). Awesome musician, though, in my opinion.

I can't post links yet- Google "John Lennon Red Mole interview 1971"