OK, some random questions

[534634634265]

if a guy blows up his local courthouse, is that revolutionary? he's attacking the power structure of the state, right?

if a guy blows up his local prison, is that? hes freely many who were likely wrongly imprisoned due to the capitalist system of oppression, right?

if a guy walks into a UU and wastes some kids with a shotgun(recent news) is that revolutionary? hes actively seeking the end of religious obfuscation and lies, right?

if dude gets arrested painting anti-authoritarian propaganda in a city, is that revolutionary? he's helping spread consciousness of our exploitation, right?

i predict lots of NO answers, but without action, how does the revolution get started? stalin/castro/mao type vangaurds? that just creates the opportunity for state capitalism and further oppression. right?

[Random Precision]

Well, all of the examples you mention seem to be "propaganda of the deed" type actions that were popular among anarchists in the 19th and early 20th centuries. The problem with propaganda of the deed is, while it may get you a lot of attention, it does nothing to target the overall system of power and exploitation under capitalism, and more often than not it alienates the people we are trying to reach. To use one of your examples, blowing up a courthouse accomplishes nothing, because most likely a new one will be built up in its place by the government as soon as possible, and people will not understand what the point of doing such a thing is. Shooting kids in a church makes the least sense of all your examples, because it targets the people at the ground level instead of the religious hierarchy. In any case I would be very skeptical of attacking religious institutions directly because it alienates so many people, and especially in the case of Unitarian Universalists, many of whom don't actually have religious beliefs as such. As for your other example of blowing up a prison, while it is true that many inmates are wrongly imprisoned, it has doubtful lasting impact.

Pretty much the bottom line is this: all of the acts you are describing come down to individual acts of terrorism. As one of my favorite movies puts it, revolutions are not won through terrorism, the people themselves have to act collectively. While an individual may blow up a courthouse, only a large mass of people are capable of attacking and bringing down the power structure that creates them. As revolutionaries, whether we're Maoist, Trotskyist or Anarchist, we all see the way toward revolution as working among the people at the ground level, to turn them to the revolutionary path. Any self-proclaimed revolutionaries who try to act without the support and active participation of the masses is hopelessly lost. That isn't "stalin/castro/mao type vanguardism", it's just common sense.

Oh, and moved to Learning.

[Anarch_Mesa]

if a guy blows up his local courthouse, is that revolutionary? he's attacking the power structure of the state, right? - First of all blowing up a local courthouse would not even flick the top of the hairs of capitalism it would actually put a negative effect on communism as a whole making us seem like a bunch of rebels without a cause. Secondly word "state" is a very generic term, now attacking something like the high up bankers or corrupted government officials that would be somewhat justifiable, but senseless violence....


if a guy blows up his local prison, is that? hes freely many who were likely wrongly imprisoned due to the capitalist system of oppression, right?
- As Random Precision said many are in there for unjustifiable causes but there are also some people in there who are sick and twisted people and letting them out would once again give communism as a whole a bad name.



if a guy walks into a UU and wastes some kids with a shotgun(recent news) is that revolutionary? hes actively seeking the end of religious obfuscation and lies, right?
Killing innocent kids would not justify as a revolutionary act at all it would justify as a very sick act. The kids have absolutely nothing to do with the church they are just there to express there beliefs which is up to them, the people who are brainwashing children and adults into a religion those people are justifiable kills.


if dude gets arrested painting anti-authoritarian propaganda in a city, is that revolutionary? he's helping spread consciousness of our exploitation, right?


I disagree with all propaganda so I'm not much help here...


revolutions are not won through terrorism, the people themselves have to act collectively
He pretty much summed it up there ^^^

[mikelepore]

It's not a strategy or action by itself that is or isn't revolutionary. A revolution is a change to a fundamentally different political or economic system. It was asked whether certain actions are revolutionary. If we later find that those actions have led to a fundamentally different political or economic system, then we will know after the fact that those actions were revolutionary. So when people here disagree about whether those actions should be called revolutionary, what they are disagreeing about are either what kind of social result deserves to be called fundamentally different, or what kinds of actions have a high probability of achieving that result.

[nuisance]

I disagree with all propaganda so I'm not much help here...
So you are against anarchist news bulletins, pamphlets and all other propaganda? Why is that? Also, how you would attempt to circulate your ideas? Just through taking part in local struggles?
Alot of questions there!

[revolution inaction]

if a guy blows up his local courthouse, is that revolutionary? he's attacking the power structure of the state, right?

if a guy blows up his local prison, is that? hes freely many who were likely wrongly imprisoned due to the capitalist system of oppression, right?

No, they are most likely to be counter productive. The state is a social relationship, not a building, you can't blow it up.



if a guy walks into a UU and wastes some kids with a shotgun(recent news) is that revolutionary? hes actively seeking the end of religious obfuscation and lies, right?

how could this be revolutionary? you don't counteract lies or false believes by killing people who believe them.



if dude gets arrested painting anti-authoritarian propaganda in a city, is that revolutionary? he's helping spread consciousness of our exploitation, right?

maybe, but not vary, leaflets would be better, no one became revolutionary because of a slogan (I hope).



i predict lots of NO answers, but without action, how does the revolution get started? stalin/castro/mao type vangaurds? that just creates the opportunity for state capitalism and further oppression. right?
I'm glad you recognise vanguards are counter revolutionary :)
The best kind of action is organising in work places and communities, this is more difficult than any of the above but is the most effective.

[534634634265]

thanks for all this legit feedback. i wasn't trying to troll or be an ass, just real questions i had wondered about. now more.

how does one help to bring about the revolution then? it seems the revolution only consists of empty talk without action, or meaningless action without intelligent reason. i want to see so much positive change take place in the world i live in, but i see no real way of actuating that change... i try and do volunteer work for the needy/homeless, i donate what meagre funds i can to causes i believe in, but this still doesn't bring about actual change, does it?

EDIT: whoever moved me here, thanks. im used to posting only in OI because that seems to be where the most heated discussions take place.

[F9]

how does one help to bring about the revolution then? it seems the revolution only consists of empty talk without action, or meaningless action without intelligent reason. i want to see so much positive change take place in the world i live in, but i see no real way of actuating that change... i try and do volunteer work for the needy/homeless, i donate what meagre funds i can to causes i believe in, but this still doesn't bring about actual change, does it?

i see only one way to bring the revolution,we have to spread our ideas to workers,we take them near us we make them learn what we really represent so our ideas will be all over so the workers will understand the unfairness of capitalism and they revolt!

Fuserg9:star:

[Dean]

if a guy blows up his local courthouse, is that revolutionary? he's attacking the power structure of the state, right?

if a guy blows up his local prison, is that? hes freely many who were likely wrongly imprisoned due to the capitalist system of oppression, right?

if a guy walks into a UU and wastes some kids with a shotgun(recent news) is that revolutionary? hes actively seeking the end of religious obfuscation and lies, right?

if dude gets arrested painting anti-authoritarian propaganda in a city, is that revolutionary? he's helping spread consciousness of our exploitation, right?

i predict lots of NO answers, but without action, how does the revolution get started? stalin/castro/mao type vangaurds? that just creates the opportunity for state capitalism and further oppression. right?

A revolutionary act is an act that helps compel, acts within the context of, or is driven by revolution. Bombing a courthouse during an impending class war is revolutionary, but that doesn't mean its the right thing to do.

I know I am probably alone here, but I fully support subversive acts, within or without the context of a revolution. Simply put, for the oppressed to fight against the oppressor is always good in my eyes, even if it proves to be of little consequence in and of itself. It is a release of the human drive and passion for freedom against the offensive character of oppression, and in this context, I am always filled with joy about these acts, so long as innocents are never hurt.

[gla22]

Extremist terrorist activity is only useful in extreme situations. Unless you have *alot* of popular support you shouldn't run around blowing stuff up or assassinating people. Assassinations proved to be very useful in 1920's Spain, but that was obviously an extreme situation. Spraypainting ect. imo is ok for now, it does less for others than it does for ourselves. I feel good when i see the anarchy sign tagged somewhere.

[Random Precision]

thanks for all this legit feedback. i wasn't trying to troll or be an ass, just real questions i had wondered about. now more.

how does one help to bring about the revolution then? it seems the revolution only consists of empty talk without action, or meaningless action without intelligent reason. i want to see so much positive change take place in the world i live in, but i see no real way of actuating that change... i try and do volunteer work for the needy/homeless, i donate what meagre funds i can to causes i believe in, but this still doesn't bring about actual change, does it?

Like I said in my last post, there's really no shortcut around getting to the people. That can mean many different things: you could do solidarity work on a strike, bringing food to picketers and handing out leaflets. You could talk to people at an anti-war demonstration, which is mobilization around popular causes. At the most basic level, you could have conversations with people at your job, just pointing out to them the exploitation and resulting alienation that exists in their lives. It can mean many things, but the end goal in every revolutionary action is to raise consciousness, to help prepare the people at large for mass revolutionary action. It won't happen overnight, and there's a lot of resistance you will encounter, but it has to be done.


EDIT: whoever moved me here, thanks. im used to posting only in OI because that seems to be where the most heated discussions take place.

You're quite welcome. :)