Incentive

[Pogue]

I need good answer to the age old question, wheres the incentive to work hard and do boring/horrible jobs under communism?

[BIG BROTHER]

first of all, i think its safe to assume that in order to reach the communist stage, those horrible boring jobs will probably have to be automatized or something like that.

We could also say that people will have the "soviet man" mentality.

Second, just like in a lot of communities of the native people of Mexico, i think people in a communist society will be compelled to keep their system, therefore they will work in unpleasant jobs in order to keep that society. Just like in the communities that I mention the people work(for free) in order you know to help their communities.

[shorelinetrance]

for the betterment of your community? In communism your job will actually have meaning and a tangible visible outcome, instead of today where the only incentive is to work to make money and "contribute to the economy".

[Q]

In addition to josefrancisco's post, you could ask yourself: Why do I clean the dishes? Why do I clean the house? Why do I put out the gabage?

You don't get paid for that do you? The incentive here I think is very similar to that of communist society and yeah, besides that I could see a lot of automisation being done.

[spartan]

for the betterment of your community? In communism your job will actually have meaning and a tangible visible outcome, instead of today where the only incentive is to work to make money and "contribute to the economy".

I disagree.

People work in a capitalist society as there is no other alternative. Put simply you dont work then you dont earn money which means you cant buy food which means that you will eventually die of starvation unless someone else pays for your things but this leads to financial strain on others who also need the money to live.

That's why people do undesirable jobs in a capitalist society and are unlikely to want to continue doing them in a communist society as people naturally wont want to be doing these jobs as there is no dire consequences to them if they dont do it.

This is why all undesirable jobs should be automated to offset this potential problem of people not wanting to do undesirable jobs which could have disastrous consequences such as dirty streets that breed germs and thus spread disease if all the rubbish collectors suddenly decided to stay in bed all the time for example.

[shorelinetrance]

I disagree.

People work in a capitalist society as there is no other alternative. Put simply you dont work then you dont earn money which means you cant buy food which means that you will eventually die of starvation unless someone else pays for your things but this leads to financial strain on others who also need the money to live.

That's why people do undesirable jobs in a capitalist society and are unlikely to want to continue doing them in a communist society as people naturally wont want to be doing these jobs as there is no dire consequences to them if they dont do it.

This is why all undesirable jobs should be automated to offset this potential problem of people not wanting to do undesirable jobs which could have disastrous consequences such as dirty streets that breed germs and thus spread disease if all the rubbish collectors suddenly decided to stay in bed all the time for example.

I thought that was already painfully obvious, that's the conundrum of capitalism you work or you die.

But to most people who are ignorant of capitalism and it's effects, and just accept it as natural, to them the only incentive is to work and buy things and contribute to the economy.

But that's besides the point of the thread, i don't even know why it typed it. :D

[Kwisatz Haderach]

Where is the incentive to do boring, repetitive, dirty jobs under capitalism? Most of them pay crappy wages, much lower than the more creative, engaging jobs.

The idea that people need to be paid a premium to do unpleasant jobs is a myth, because under capitalism, such jobs are usually underpaid, not overpaid. How many rich garbage collectors do you know?

Under capitalism, people don't do unpleasant jobs for the money - there isn't much money to be made in them - but because they have no other jobs to take. In a socialist economy, this kind of incentive will have to be maintained for a while: There are only so many jobs to choose from at any given time, and if you don't qualify for any of the better ones, you're going to have to take one of the more unpleasant ones. But the eventual goal is to eliminate the unpleasant jobs altogether, either through automatization or through rotation (collecting garbage doesn't take any skill, and if every person did it for just one day a year, we wouldn't need any dedicated garbage collectors).

[mykittyhasaboner]

How many rich garbage collectors do you know?

garbage collectors make a lot of money, because they work for the city. at least where i live..


On the original topic, if the unpleasant jobs are not automated by technology, then people could possibly work them in shifts.

[spartan]

Maybe some unionized trash collectors make more money than some other workers, but no one is getting rich from picking up trash.
Perhaps that is the case in America but where i am from being a binman is seen as good as it is healthy (you are in the fresh air doing alot of good old fashioned manual labour) and pays a decent wage.

One of my cousins is a binman and says he wouldn't change it for the world!

[Mala Tha Testa]

first of all, i think its safe to assume that in order to reach the communist stage, those horrible boring jobs will probably have to be automatized or something like that.

We could also say that people will have the "soviet man" mentality.

Second, just like in a lot of communities of the native people of Mexico, i think people in a communist society will be compelled to keep their system, therefore they will work in unpleasant jobs in order to keep that society. Just like in the communities that I mention the people work(for free) in order you know to help their communities.

this

[mykittyhasaboner]

Maybe some unionized trash collectors make more money than some other workers, but no one is getting rich from picking up trash.
true, no one is getting "rich" from trash collecting. but they get a pretty hefty salary, and get loads of benefits. plus each employee only has to work like half of the week.

[Pogue]

But it seems we're sort of relying on people just deciding to work for no money. I mean the incentive for anything - progress, developement, new designs. Wheres the incentive for this, if it wont make anymore money? I don't think alot of scientists andf intellectuals are motivated by love for the world.

[trivas7]

But it seems we're sort of relying on people just deciding to work for no money. I mean the incentive for anything - progress, developement, new designs. Wheres the incentive for this, if it wont make anymore money? I don't think alot of scientists andf intellectuals are motivated by love for the world.
Well, but what do you think communism is?

[Incendiarism]

Well, wouldn't we all take turns having ago at these jobs?

The way I see it, people will be compelled to do these jobs not simply because we love each other or we no longer think within a capitalist context, but because I believe in such a case the social relations of man have shifted from an individualist perspective to one in which we openly recognize that we rely on one another and we have a hand in coordinating these activities, thus perhaps being able to suit what we individually find acceptable.

Though I do think that somewhere along the line we would eventually be able to eliminate these undesirable jobs through progress in technology.

[gla22]

1. Shitty jobs will always exist.
2. They have to be done.

In a communist society people will be working less hours for a variety of reasons so people will spend less time doing shitty jobs.

[danyboy27]

gardbadge collector make shitload of money here, plumber make a lot of money etc.

[shorelinetrance]

But it seems we're sort of relying on people just deciding to work for no money. I mean the incentive for anything - progress, developement, new designs. Wheres the incentive for this, if it wont make anymore money? I don't think alot of scientists andf intellectuals are motivated by love for the world.

I don't know about you, i always find that scientists and intellectuals are the ones less susceptible to material greed.

[spartan]

I don't know about you, i always find that scientists and intellectuals are the ones less susceptible to material greed.
Yeah because they are already payed well.

[Post-Something]

The community decides who will do what work collectively. Those with the more enjoyable jobs can have them paired with some undesirable jobs, and people who downright refuse not to do anything, don't deserve the fruits of societies labor. Thats the extreme, but you could for example, have your name dropped lower on the list of people for luxury items; or even have it put up higher for doing those undesirable jobs. There are quite a number of ways around it, and lots of ways to make incentive.

[Aurelia]

The individual incentive in socialism is as follows: You make available to the community the product of our labor, and in return every other worker makes available to you the product of his labor. That is why socialism overcomes the barter and currency model of capitalism, which centralized wealth and provides little incentive.

[Comrade B]

gardbadge collector make shitload of money here, plumber make a lot of money etc.

Off of garbage collectors who are employed by the state already, and plumbers who usually work independantly we can look at slaughterhouse workers, janitors, hotel room cleaners, and a whole lot of other jobs that underpay people to do atrocious work.

[Aurelia]

Alot of people here are falling into believing in the bourgeois fallacy of 'money' and all the rest.

I mean, for example, do you pay for your water by the gallon? I think not. It doesn't mean you turn your tap on deliberately just to get something for nothing. People don't, and I think its only a small step to changing peoples attitudes to realise that there is no point in taking more than you want.