50th anneversary of one of History's - greatest tragedies. [Archive]

Pete

3rd February 2003, 23:36

When we did mock trials in class I was the only one to vote Stalin 'not-guilty.' Although I am more (actually very much past) the fuck faced faction, Mazdak, I do admit that Stalin was a communist. Hitler was a capitalist. So was Truman who nuked Japan. Both ideologies have people they want to ignore when making their case. Stalin did great things for the Soviet Union, yet he faces resistance. In my non-Stalinst anti-StalinvsTrotskyarguements opinion I say mark March 5 aside, like you did for Lenin's death. Find Ho Chi Min's and Guevara's and Mao's deathdates so they can all be remembered for trying to end Capitalism. Stalin was the Dictatorship of the Proletairant. Any Marxist must see that. Communism-the one that us fuckfaces want-just never bloomed.

Mazdak

3rd February 2003, 23:47

Your views are probably the best views i have seen. You take a neutral stand. If the entire left took such a stand we would be able to unite and achieve so much.

Revolution Hero

3rd February 2003, 23:50

No doubt that Crazy Pete gave the most objective reply.

Pete

3rd February 2003, 23:54

I'm just sick of all this Stalin was right, no trostky was right bullshit :D I also have only read the Communist Manifesto after deciding I was a Communist :D Aswell I think that it is more constructive to debate over how the future of Communism should run instead of what happened in the past :D From some source I have plagarized so well I forget it: "Under Stalin we died for the people and dissent, but we ate; Under the Czar we died for the aristocrats and dissent, and we starved." Actually my wording on that quote is completely mine, the idea is stolen from somewhere esle.

Capitalist Imperial

4th February 2003, 00:49

I'm having a "the dic is dead" party tonight, guestlist:

SN, DC, Tkinker, AK(where has he been)?

Mazdak

4th February 2003, 03:15

Speaking of capitalist pieces of shit, what ever happened to Apache? Goddamnit he was great.

I would criticize you, but as a capitalist, i don't expect any better out of you. Just remember that Stalin and the Soviet Union had the effect of making US politicians and military officials piss their pants for a few years. You can criticize him now, but 50 years ago, if you were as outspoken with your criticisms, you wouldnt be alive very long.

Cheers.

American Kid

4th February 2003, 04:32

MARCH 5th, 1953.

Josef Stalin, the communist and feared dictator of the USSR dies.

At first there is blackness, and then the committed atheist awakens, to his horror, before Almighty God:

GOD: "Well, well, well......"

Stalin, clearly out of his element, stares around sheepishly.

GOD: "Well, well, well. Hey, Gabriel! Check this out! Look who just showed up!"

The archangel Gabriel floats over.

GABRIEL: "Ha! Fuck me....."

STALIN: "Where am I.....?"

GOD: "Ha...surprise."

STALIN: "The captialists have poisened my gulash. This is a hallucination."

GOD: "Negative. You're gulash. Dead as a doornail. You look nervous. Everything cool?"

STALIN: "I deserve an explanation."

GOD: "Ha! Hey, Gabe! Did you hear that? The vicious, blood-thirsty, power-mongering, purge-enacting dictator, well he feels he deserves an explanation!"

GABRIEL: "Well give him one."

GOD: "How about it, Joe? You ready to face facts?"

STALIN: "I don't understand this."

GOD: "You're dead. Now you're in my court. Time to attone."

STALIN: "Attone? Attone for what?"

GOD: "FOR WHAT?"

The gates of heaven creak and tremble. Joe Steel's hairpiece is almost knocked off.

GOD: "Josef. Josef, Josef, Josef. I expected a lot more from you you know. I really thought you would've made a fine priest. Then you had to change your name and, well, it was all downhill from there."

STALIN (trembles): "......Is this what I think it is....?"

GOD: "I'm afraid it is, Joe Steel."

STALIN: "What are you going to do with me? I lived an honest, honorable life!"

GOD: "Well...... Some of your people did. No doubt. The workers in the field. The poor innocent people you sent to Siberia to....collect snow. The brave men, women and children you had protecting Stalingrad from those dickhead nazis. Yes, some of them were persons of virtue. By the way, naming a city after you....didn't you know that was just a...flagrant violation of the sin against pride?"

STALIN: "I demand to know what you are going to do with me!"

GOD (laughs): "Well, I'm going to send you to hell of course. We've got a steaming pit full of hot, molten lava reserved for you, right next to Roosevelt and Churchill- who will occupy his someday soon- trust me."

STALIN: "Comrades Roosevelt and Churchill? But why?"

GOD: "Did you happen to miss what happened to Dresden, Joe Steel? Did that one slip under your fuckin' radar...???"

And with that, Joe Steel was sent to hell.

The end.
-AK

thursday night

4th February 2003, 05:51

It is a sad day. Without Stalin the Soviet Union would never have become a superpower, it is that simple.

(Yes, I'm back)

Behind enemy lines

4th February 2003, 07:51

I am not a stalinist, however I will acknowledge
Comrade Stalin achievments. He did kill far to much people(1 innocent person is to much for me) but he did do good things for the soviet people and I respect that.

suffianr

4th February 2003, 14:22

Haha, it's a Golden Jubilee, now, isn't it? Great.

Last year was the 60th anniversary of Stalingrad, but hey, nobody here really gave a crap about that one...

However, I am a sucker for nostalgia. On the anniversary of Che's death, I made an extra effort to spread the message, his message, reaching out to fellow comrades, distributing leftist material and taking time to recall his great endeavours...

Now, what shall we do on Stalin's death day?

I know, I'll lock myself up in the john with a bottle of cheap vodka, and eat salted porridge spiked with arsenic for the next 48 hours, singng "Vstavaitye, lyudi russkiye, na slavny boi, na smyertny boi..."

thursday night

4th February 2003, 17:09

All alone in the john? It's no fun without company. ;)

Pete

4th February 2003, 17:21

When is Che's deathday? And I love how leftists celebrate deathdates like the yankees celebrate their president/heroes birthdays :biggrin: On Lenin's deathday I said 'today a great man died' to all my friends and they immediately thought yankee, only one asked 'lenin or stalin?' Although they are not Stalinst and niether am I. ahhh. Some one who knows, could you compile a list of deathdays?

thursday night

4th February 2003, 17:29

It should be on the site somewhere.

Smoking Frog II

4th February 2003, 18:20

Quote: from Blibblob on 9:56 pm on Feb. 3, 2003
stalin was a capitalist idiot.

Through my definition of capitalism: A system where one only works for self gain

Someone who sets up model farms isn't a capitalist.

From the start of Stalin's period of power to the end, The soviet union's wealth, agricultural production rate etc had increased by over threefold. If i had a textbook on me i would quote.

(Edited by Smoking Frog II at 6:23 pm on Feb. 4, 2003)

Sirion

4th February 2003, 18:22

I am not stalinist. 'However, I know that (despite what the dirty cappies here say), Stalin probably saved more than he killed. Just think: WWII, boom in life expectancy and so on. And, he gave all soviet citizens what they earlier did not belive was possible.

We all should respect Stalin for this.

However, in the long run, he failed. Why? When the bolshevics seized controll in Russia, the proletariat was nearly non-existing. The country was Feudalistic, not capitalistic, and did not have the right circumstances (for those who did not know, communism was meant to start in the richest countries in the world, at that time it meant either Germany, Frane or Great Britain). Under the great war, Lenin introduced war communism, which in its early stages was critizised by known communists like Rosa Luxembourg.

Under Stalins rule, war communis continued, and showed us the recipe for the quickest industrial revolution ever (in the worlds largest country as well!). So, about when Stalin died, USSR was suitable to become a true socialist state. Yet nothing happened. 'Though the war was long over, war communism continued.

Today, only a few such countries are left. I belive that they are attacks against foreign imperialism that MUST BE SUPPORTED, but they are not true workers' states

Just my 2 cents.

thursday night

4th February 2003, 18:27

So, about when Stalin died, USSR was suitable to become a true socialist state. Yet nothing happened.

What do you mean nothing happened? The Soviet Union as well as the Socialist Bloc continued to exist after Stalin passed away. In fact, the USSR only grew stronger as it became the superpower it deserved to be thanks to Stalin's industrialization program.

Smoking Frog II

4th February 2003, 18:28

Isn't it amazing that at the start of the 20th, Russia was the poorest and possibly weakest, though largest superpower [not all of Russia was suitable for agriculture, industry etc.] although through communism, The soviet union ended in number 2 to the US. How would the tzar got a human in space first with his people starving and dying around him?

Athough not a stalinist myself, i am inclined to say that i believe that Stalin did more good for the soviets than bad.

(Edited by Smoking Frog II at 6:30 pm on Feb. 4, 2003)

Just Joe

4th February 2003, 18:41

no matter what Joseph Stalin did for the Soviet Union, the man was still a despot who killed millions.

saying how he did good things for the country is like saying Hitler was good for Germany. you can't seperate the achievements from the tryanny.

thursday night

4th February 2003, 18:45

And where do you get these 'facts' that Stalin killed millions? CNN? Hardly unbiased reporting there, buddy.

Pete

4th February 2003, 19:06

Please don't turn this thread into an immature stalinvstrostky debate. I'll have to purge you all.

Just Joe

4th February 2003, 19:37

Quote: from thursday night on 6:45 pm on Feb. 4, 2003
And where do you get these 'facts' that Stalin killed millions? CNN? Hardly unbiased reporting there, buddy.

Nazis say the same about the holocaust. let it go.

Capitalist Imperial

4th February 2003, 20:18

[quote]Quote: from Mazdak on 3:15 am on Feb. 4, 2003
"Speaking of capitalist pieces of shit, what ever happened to Apache? Goddamnit he was great."

he was funny

"I would criticize you, but as a capitalist, i don't expect any better out of you."

yeah yeah yeah

"Just remember that Stalin and the Soviet Union had the effect of making US politicians and military officials piss their pants for a few years."

When did we piss our pants? We were always ready to take on the reds, lock, stock, and barrel, i.e. the Cuban missle crisis. Besides, what good is this notion of concern for "a few years" when ultimately we were the major contributor to your demise?

"You can criticize him now, but 50 years ago, if you were as outspoken with your criticisms, you wouldnt be alive very long."

If I was russian, I agree. Thats my point, he was a murderous dictator. In america, people talked mess about him daily.

"Cheers."

Cheers

El Brujo

4th February 2003, 20:18

Stalin died March 5th, I believe.

Curious thing. My grandfather was born in 1917 (the year of the Bolshevik revolution) and died in 1991 (the year of the collapse of the USSR). So him and the USSR lived mutually.

thursday night

4th February 2003, 21:38

Nazis say the same about the holocaust. let it go.

When the facts fail you resort to Hitler. Idiot.

Just Joe

4th February 2003, 21:42

i'm not comparing Stalin to Hitler. Hitler was much worse because the man is responsible for the deaths of maybe 70,000,000 people. but 'Stalinists' and Nazis both use the same arguments; that the crimes there ideologies are credited with, didn't happen.

there is plenty of evidence to show Stalin killed millions. historians, soviet archives and actual bodies that have been found are just some of the sources you could look.

Mazdak

4th February 2003, 21:53

there is plenty of evidence to show Stalin killed millions. historians, soviet archives and actual bodies that have been found are just some of the sources you could look.

Soviet Archives? Really? Please show us where they do this.

Just Joe

4th February 2003, 21:57

what about Katyn (spelling?) forrest? didn't Gorby even admit this?

Mazdak

4th February 2003, 22:02

LMAO gorbachev?! He also said in 1987 that the changes he would making would not affect the stability of the Soviet Union. He probably did, but when the KGB archives were opened, they were quickly forgotten. there was nothing in them. No horrid shocking number of dead. No innocent victims. No mass genocides.

nothing.

Just Joe

4th February 2003, 22:11

considering Gorbachev was head of the Soviet Communist Party at the time, i don't think he would lie and cause further embaressment to his country.

so how many did Stalin kill then if it wasn't millions?

thursday night

4th February 2003, 22:14

Yes, during the Stalinist period of the Soviet Union there were many executions. Too many? Perhaps, that is up for debate. The fact is that these 'brutal' executions happened for a reason. Stalin didn't just wake up one morning and say to himself, "Hmm, today I shall become a homicidal maniac and randomly slaughter people.” The fact is that when the USSR was formed Allied troops from America, England, France, Japan, the Czech and elsewhere invaded the Soviet Union. From its birth the USSR was born into violence.

During the Stalinist years the Soviet Union was faced by unnumbered threats. The American/Imperialist threat, the Trotskyite threat, the Japanese threat and so forth. Thus, action had to be taken to keep the Soviet Union alive (not to mention the fact that it needed to be built into a superpower through industrialization and collectivization; what was Stalin to do, ask the ignorant peasants to ‘please move into the collectives’?)

Just Joe

4th February 2003, 22:30

the 'ignorant peasents'? wow, what a great lover of the working class you are.

maybe the fact that the peasents DIDN'T WANT to go into big collectives proves the point about Communism, or Stalinism being an oppressive ideology that actually goes AGAINST the working class and promotes despotism and tryanny.

whatever the outside threats, there was no need for the police state that Stalin set up.

capitalism=freedom of speech sold to the highest bidder

communism=freedom of speech sold to the best arse licker

(Edited by Just Joe at 10:32 pm on Feb. 4, 2003)

Mazdak

4th February 2003, 23:37

What the hell are you then? Another pothead anarchist?

And no, it wasnt the peasants, but the kulaks who Stalin had to deal with harshly. They were murderous saboteurs and deserved everything they got.

Just Joe

4th February 2003, 23:44

so are Communism and Capitalism the only 2 ideologies?

i'm a Irish Republican who is also a democratic socialist.

both capitalism and communism are both anti-worker and anti-democracy in practice.

why did these kulaks 'deserve' to die then? why did the 14,000 Chekists in your quote 'deserve' to die?

Mazdak

4th February 2003, 23:53

14,000 werent killed. 14,000 were PURGED. that doesnt mean killed. the kulaks, as i said, were killing peasants, livestock,and destroying farms and equipment. they were capitalist landlords.

The 14,000 chekists were trotskyist sympathizers headed by Yagoda. There were also foreign spies and nazis amongst them.

Just Joe

4th February 2003, 23:59

why do 'Trotskyists' and 'Nazis' deserve to be purged? and whats the difference between killing and purging?

Mazdak

5th February 2003, 00:03

purging can be inmprisonment or labor camp treatment or execution. Killing is just killing.

I think nazis deserved to be purged. I hope to christ the rest of the people here do to.

As for Trotskyists, they are criminals because they use force and violence to achieve their goal.

Just Joe

5th February 2003, 01:08

so you agree with locking people up who don't agree with you?

Tavarish Spetsnaz

5th February 2003, 01:51

At 4:00 AM on March 6 the radio reported...

"The heart of the comrade-in-arms and continuer of genius of Lenin's cause, of the wise leader and teacher of the Communist Party and the Soviet Union, has ceased to beat."

(Edited by Tavarish Spetsnaz at 1:53 am on Feb. 5, 2003)

RedComrade

5th February 2003, 02:33

Quote: from Mazdak on 12:03 am on Feb. 5, 2003
purging can be inmprisonment or labor camp treatment or execution. Killing is just killing.

I think nazis deserved to be purged. I hope to christ the rest of the people here do to.

As for Trotskyists, they are criminals because they use force and violence to achieve their goal.

HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA HAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAH HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHHAHAHAH AHAHHAHAHA TROTSKYISTS USE FORCE AND VIOLENCE BUT STALIN WAS A PEACE LOVING HIPPY RIGHT WHAT YOU HAVE SAID IS THE BIGGEST JOKE EVER PERIOD I HOPE NORM READ YOUR PIECE OF SHIT POST AND PUTS IT IN HIS IGNORANCE THREAD A STALINIST TALKING ABOUT FORCE AND VIOLENCE, YOU ARE MORE HYPOCRITICAL THAN CI NO WONDER YOU AND THE CAPITALIST FREQUENTLY TEAM UP IN ARGUMENTS< THAT WAS ONE OF THE MOST HYPOCRITICAL STATEMENTS EVER MAZDAK KEEP THEM COMING

truthaddict11

5th February 2003, 02:38

how are labor camps different from execution in your idealogy Mazdak? As I have read in posts by you both are death especially how you want people to build a canal you know will fail and have everyone of them die in the process.

canikickit

5th February 2003, 02:41

especially how you want people to build a canal you know will fail and have everyone of them die in the process

I think that was Thine Stalin. I'm pretty sure Mazdak doesn't agree with such a ridiculous plan.

It's also a good point raised by RedComrade, Mazdak, what were you thinking?

thursday night

5th February 2003, 06:42

i'm a Irish Republican who is also a democratic socialist.

What the hell are you doing here then, Joe? You think Che was a democratic socialist? Are you one of these rich upper middle class kids who wears a t-shirt of Che and thinks he's cool? Get real. Che was a admirer of Stalin and a man who believed in violent revolution. He had people put before the firing squad many times. I think you should switch to the Democratic Party forums or something.

Cassius Clay

5th February 2003, 09:57

Yeah that's right 'Redcomrade' Trotsky was nothing more than a Fascist, opportunist who in the end collobarted with Nazism in order to gain power.

As for you all criticising Stalin, you have no idea. 'Stalin was evil and he killed millions' and 'Stalin was a Capitalist'. Obviously none of you have read any of Josef Stalin's works or researched into what he believed in.

I won't bother with a long post since that's what I do in every thread and inevitably nobody responds to the fact that their claims are proved to be rubbish. Instead you all decide to misquote Mazdak or accuse him of supporting murder. I don't agree with his 'Authoriarianism' but I do support the terror on the criminalls and terriorists bought to trial under Stalin.

'the working class...must be thrown here and there, appointed, commanded just like soldiers. Deserters from labour ought to be formed into punitive battalions or put into concentration camps'

'There are two rival camps in the world, one dedicated to the principles of socialism and democracy. the other dedicated to the principles of reaction and war'

The first one of these quotes was said by Leon Trotsky in 1920, the second one by Andrei Zhdanov in 1948, Zhdanov for those not in the know was a close personal freind of Stalin and is what you could describe as a 'Stalinist'. Judging by Trotsky's quote it could appear to a naive Alien visitor that Zhdanov was reffering to that other block dedicated to 'reaction and war' were infact led by Trotskyites. Infact Zhdanov was reffering to the U$, but there's little diference.

truthaddict11

5th February 2003, 10:35

Quote: from canikickit on 9:41 pm on Feb. 4, 2003

especially how you want people to build a canal you know will fail and have everyone of them die in the process

I think that was Thine Stalin. I'm pretty sure Mazdak doesn't agree with such a ridiculous plan.

It's also a good point raised by RedComrade, Mazdak, what were you thinking?

Well I believe Mazdak said it at Moskittos forum

Guest

5th February 2003, 11:45

Quote: from Cassius Clay on 9:57 am on Feb. 5, 2003
Yeah that's right 'Redcomrade' Trotsky was nothing more than a Fascist, opportunist who in the end collobarted with Nazism in order to gain power.

As for you all criticising Stalin, you have no idea. 'Stalin was evil and he killed millions' and 'Stalin was a Capitalist'. Obviously none of you have read any of Josef Stalin's works or researched into what he believed in.

I won't bother with a long post since that's what I do in every thread and inevitably nobody responds to the fact that their claims are proved to be rubbish. Instead you all decide to misquote Mazdak or accuse him of supporting murder. I don't agree with his 'Authoriarianism' but I do support the terror on the criminalls and terriorists bought to trial under Stalin.

'the working class...must be thrown here and there, appointed, commanded just like soldiers. Deserters from labour ought to be formed into punitive battalions or put into concentration camps'

'There are two rival camps in the world, one dedicated to the principles of socialism and democracy. the other dedicated to the principles of reaction and war'

The first one of these quotes was said by Leon Trotsky in 1920, the second one by Andrei Zhdanov in 1948, Zhdanov for those not in the know was a close personal freind of Stalin and is what you could describe as a 'Stalinist'. Judging by Trotsky's quote it could appear to a naive Alien visitor that Zhdanov was reffering to that other block dedicated to 'reaction and war' were infact led by Trotskyites. Infact Zhdanov was reffering to the U$, but there's little diference.

Yeah, you're right CC.

Guest

5th February 2003, 11:50

Quote: from Just Joe on 6:41 pm on Feb. 4, 2003
no matter what Joseph Stalin did for the Soviet Union, the man was still a despot who killed millions.

saying how he did good things for the country is like saying Hitler was good for Germany. you can't seperate the achievements from the tryanny.

I'll have you know Nazi Germany was very efficient. You cannot say anything is 100% bad. The maximum badness is 95%

Stormin Norman

5th February 2003, 11:51

Joseph Stalin! Now there's a grave I would most definitely piss on.

Reuben

5th February 2003, 11:56

It really is Ironic how Stalin died. WHen his Brain hemmoraged in the middle of the night there were no personal doctors immediately available as he had purged most of them in his pogrom which followed the 'Jewish doctors plot'.

The only person who could order doctor was Beria and he was druck and had company. Well it wasa typical death of a counter-revolutionary depot who in the name of Marxism brought about a tyrannical system of government which IN NO WAY SHAPE OR FORM brought about proletarian control of the means of production

Just Joe

5th February 2003, 13:05

What the hell are you doing here then, Joe?

do you have to be a Communist to post here?

You think Che was a democratic socialist?

i don't care. i admire him for standing up to imperialism, not because of his economic theories.

Are you one of these rich upper middle class kids who wears a t-shirt of Che and thinks he's cool?

working class and i don't own a Che T-Shirt.

Get real. Che was a admirer of Stalin and a man who believed in violent revolution.

i believe in violent revolution when the time is right. Che Guevara also lost all his support for the Soviet Union towards the end of his life.

He had people put before the firing squad many times. I think you should switch to the Democratic Party forums or something.

yeah, yeah, yeah.....

Tavarish Spetsnaz

5th February 2003, 19:46

The "Jewish doctors plot" had nothing to do with it...they were not Stalin's doctors.

These people were arrested becasue they were Beria's agents. Stalinw anted to eliminate Beria...becasue Beria was an opportunist. So he removed these doctors who were Beria's men...and he also arrested several party officials who were known as Beria's men.

Beria...was plotting something. In the months before Stalin died...his entire security staff was replaced...some were arrested. This was all done by Beria. So when Stalin died...the people protecting him were incapable of doing so...they simply left.

It is possible Stalin was murdered...by Beria's agents.

I know there are some people who say Beria was a good man. Beria was not. Stalin never wanted Beria in charge...becasue Beria was an opportunist. However...Beria had the support of other members of the CC...who continued to support him after Stalin died.

Following WW2...Stalin was going to start a new purge of the party..to remove these hidden revisionists who had cracked themselves into the state during the confusion of WW2...people like Beria and Khruschiev...would be removed. He already started that...with the arrest of Beria's doctors and Beria's men in the party.

Unfortunately...it all came too late. So after Stalin died...Beria and Khruschiev were able to defeat the party cadres and the other memebrs of the CC...Molotov, Kaganovich, Malenkov and so forth.

This was perhaps Stalin's greatest mistake...that he allowed these people to come into power. Even more party vigilence is needed in the future!!

Revolution Hero

5th February 2003, 21:20

Joseph Vissarionovich Stalin died in March 5, 1953.

This is from the notes of Stalin’s bodyguard:

“Doctors, headed by professor Lukomsky, appeared by 9 o’clock in the evening (1st of March- R.H.). Everyone was nervous; no one could take off Stalin’s shirt, as their hands trembled of emotions. So they had to cut the shirt with scissors. After examining Stalin, doctors ascertained the diagnosis: cerebral thrombosis with hemorrhage of the brain. They brought oxygen bag, made injections of camphor, applied leeches. Probably, they advised to employ something else, which would be more efficient, because Beria scared their stiff:
-Do you ensure life to comrade Stalin? Do you guarantee it?
Who was able to guarantee this, if even healthy people didn’t guarantee that they would come out from here? (!!!- RH) Svetlana and Vasily were called on March 2. Vasily yelled from the threshold:
-Swine, you ruined my father!
Some of the government members bristled up on him. But Voroshilov brought him to reason:
-Vasily, calm down. We take all measures to save life of comrade Stalin.

Finally whole country found out about the illness of the leader. Many phone calls rang out in dacha; people offered their help. Many of them swore that they would raise Stalin. Even professors from “democratic” countries called. One of them was very persistent. Tukov called Beria to the telephone. The latter yelled into the phone:
-Who are you? Are you provocateur or bandit? Tell me your name! I’ll give short shrift to you!
Professor understood who was talking to him and preferred to keep silence.
Politburo members watched by the patient’s bedside in turn. Sometimes Stalin tried to open his eyes or to move his lips, but he didn’t have enough strength. The pulse dropped in March 5. Beria came up to Stalin with request:
-Comrade Stalin, say us something. All Politburo members are here.
Voroshilov pulled Beria back, saying:
-Let bodyguard to come up. He knows them better.
While the bodyguard tried to get through the close circle of government officials, some kind of drastic injection was made to Stalin. His body trembled; pupils became wider. The death came 5 minutes later. It was found that this kind of injection was able to raise or to finally kill the patient and was meant to use only with the permission of close relatives. But no one asked the permission of Svetlana and Vasily. Beria decided it all.
After that Beria, Malenkov, Khrushchev and Molotov went to the second floor. They started to divide state positions. Delicate Molotov advised to decide this after the funeral. Impatient Khrushchev cussed him around. Molotov was hurt and went away.

Coffin with dead Stalin’s body was set in the House of the Unions. Crying Klement Gotvald asked Voroshilov:
-Why didn’t you save comrade Stalin?
-On the eve we all watched the movie in Kremlin. Stalin was cheerful and lively. We all went away to our homes after the movie ended.
That’s right. This event was a stunning unexpectedness for the first marshal. However, exactly then Voroshilov attached Golden Star of Hero of the Soviet Union to the single breasted-military of the deceased. Exactly the one Stalin refused of previously.”

Mazdak

5th February 2003, 21:53

Stalinist "violence" was not blatant terrorism. The Trotskyists terrorized and sabotage. They were worms. The Stalinist labor camps were not simply meant to kill.

thursday night

5th February 2003, 23:40

Indeed, many of the actions taken by Stalin were not just random acts of violences: they were tools used to keep the Soviet Union alive.

Blibblob

5th February 2003, 23:44

Deadly evil tools, but nothing more than what the US does with economics, they dont flat out kill, but the end result is the same, lots of deaths, and their goal.

Tavarish Spetsnaz

6th February 2003, 04:32

Deadly evil tools??? This is a revolution!!! Against the enemies of the revolution...all necessary actions must be taken!! If the working class is to be victorious...than we must fight!! And if we must fight...there will be victims...many victims!!

What part of revolution and class struggle do you not understand????

Yes...also as can be seen from this testimony from Voroshilov...Beria's behavior was very strange!! Both Molotov and Voroshilov agree Stalin was killed by Beria...it was planned. As this bodyguard says...they injected him with something that killed him.

That is why everyone was so scared and so concerned...everyone realized...this was fowl play!!!

The Trots were open couner-revolutionaries. But the Berias and Khruschievs were hidden revisionists who were able to crack their way into the state in a time of war and turmoil. This was a weakness...a lack of vigilance on part of the party...or perhaps it was capitalist pressure that finally cracked the party and allowed those scum to come to power???

Whatever it was...we must carry on with the teachings of Comrade Lenin and Stalin on party vigilance...and most importantly revolutionary democracy!!!

Cassius Clay

6th February 2003, 19:40

Indeed Comrade Spetsnaz whether or not you are right about Beria (the excellent Redcomrades site supports him while 'Another View of Stalin' does not, so the left is divided on the man. I share your view though). What it does prove though is that Stalin was hardly a dictator when he couldn't even get who he wanted (which was Malenkov) to be head of the NKVD.

I would also like you Trotskyites to justify the murder of innocent workers through terriorism and sabotage.

Oh and Comrade Reuben, for once would you care to back up your statement that the workers had no control over the means of production under Stalin.