Differences in the sexes

[534634634265]

So i'd like feedback on what the people of OI think about women. i wont share my opinion until i've gotten a few of yours.:D
now all im talking about is general ideas/feelings, im not being specific, so neither should you.:cool:

are women less or more physically able than men?

are women less or more intelligent than men?

why is striking a woman different than striking a man?

are women more or less challenged in todays society?

is suffrage for women a good idea or a bad one?

are women more or less likely to be dishonest, when compared to a male?

[Lost In Translation]

are women less or more physically able than men?Men are physically advantageous to women, but that does not make women any less competent if she chooses to work hard. This is one of the only substantial advantages men have, their size.


are women less or more intelligent than men?Studies have shown that women and men have similar IQ levels. Men have 6.5 times more grey matter though. However, men and women are intelligent in their own right.

why is striking a woman different than striking a man?This depends on the situation in which you strike a woman or a man. It seems perfectly normal for a man to strike a man in any situation, simply because they seem physically matched. However, striking a woman seems more incriminating because the man has a size advantage. Again, it all depends on the scenario in which this is done.

are women more or less challenged in todays society?Women are more challenged in today's society because society has acknowledged women's competency, and has made the women's road somewhat similar to men's, maybe slightly more difficult.

is suffrage for women a good idea or a bad one?One of the better decisions the bourgeois system have ever made.


are women more or less likely to be dishonest, when compared to a male?I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that this will raise lots of controversy.

[Kami]

I knnow you're asking OIers, but I'm going to ignore that and reply anyway

are women less or more physically able than men?

It's an individual thing, there's no hard and fast rules. however on average men tend to be stronger.

are women less or more intelligent than men?
Again, individual thing. Though in this case, neither has an advantage on average.

why is striking a woman different than striking a man?
It isn't. I don't buy the physically weaker stuff - I've seen plenty of small, weak men who've had the shit kicked out of them.

are women more or less challenged in todays society?
I'm not sure what you mean by "challenged" here? do you mean are they opposed, or do they have oppertunities to show what they're capable of?

is suffrage for women a good idea or a bad one?
I didn't realise something like that was still debated :S good.

are women more or less likely to be dishonest, when compared to a male?
The day I can judge honesty by the contents of someone's underwear, I'll let you know. That's just a silly question.

[lvl100]

From my own experience :


are women less or more intelligent than men?

From what i observed women are probably less intelligent but they are more ambitious than the average male, thats why after we draw the line their performance may be equal



are women more or less likely to be dishonest, when compared to a male?

Women tends to be more honest than average male in overall society.

But in their relations to other females tend to be more dishonest , than male`s relation to other males.

[jake williams]

are women less or more physically able than men?
On average men and women have different physical abilities. Men have more muscle mass. Women can squeeze babies out their genitals and breastfeed. You also see different relationships to disease and that sort of thing.


are women less or more intelligent than men?
Biologically I don't think there's any meaningful difference, if any. I'm even skeptical about "different types of thinking". However, there's a whole lot of difference you see which is obviously socialized, in whole or in part. Very complicated picture overall though.


why is striking a woman different than striking a man?
It depends.


are women more or less challenged in todays society?
What society? And in what way? In virtually every society I'm familiar with women are severely limited in their capacities to develop into full, free people.


is suffrage for women a good idea or a bad one?
Abolishing patriarchy and establishing new and healthy social definitions of gender identity, sexual culture and freedom would be good, for women and for men.


are women more or less likely to be dishonest, when compared to a male?
Maybe more, but it's sort of circumstantial. Men are allowed to be more and to do more, and so women have to lie defensively in situations where men don't.

[Killfacer]

Blokes are stronger than women yes.

Women and men are equally intelligent

It is not ok to strike someone who is weaker than you, society sais its bad and its just mean

Dont understand the question

Womens sufferage is a superb idea, one that should have been implimented earlier

i dont know how much women lie because they lie about it.

[jake williams]

Women tends to be more honest than average male in overall society.

But in their relations to other females tend to be more dishonest , than male`s relation to other males.
In my experience women lie much more to men than they do to women - which makes sense within my interpretation of it, that it has more to do with fitting to the social restrictions imposed by patriarchy (which acts through men and women, but we needn't make it so complicated to get some usefulness out of the understanding) than women just being "catty" and fighting amongst themselves.

[ChristianV777]

I believe that women lie more to males also.
Women have been taught to be more submissive in most modern societies, by and large. They've really had to develop different ways of dealing with this, because aggression and anger wasn't as acceptable among women as it was for males.
This can lead to lying being seen as an alternative way of dealing with social situations, rather than being "in your face", which is how males are, overall, taught to behave.

[ChristianV777]

are women less or more physically able than men?
Overall, women are physically smaller.

are women less or more intelligent than men?
About the same.
Men have physically larger brains, but women have certain areas of the brain that are bigger (corpus collosum), and this means that women have greater connectivity between the two hemispheres. So, overall, I'd say it balances out and is related to physical areas far more than anything else, and is meaningless in a wider societal context.

why is striking a woman different than striking a man?
I'm not sure. I think it is wrong to hit anyone unless it for the Revolution, to protect yourself or protect someone else.

are women more or less challenged in todays society?
In what way?
Women, overall, have it harder in the majority of the world's societies. They have less opportunities.

is suffrage for women a good idea or a bad one?
Good. Can't see anything bad about it. It's a start.

are women more or less likely to be dishonest, when compared to a male?
I addressed that I see societal reasons as being a reason to believe that women probably are. But, I have no idea! It's not something that we can really test.

[Publius]

So i'd like feedback on what the people of OI think about women. i wont share my opinion until i've gotten a few of yours.:D
now all im talking about is general ideas/feelings, im not being specific, so neither should you.:cool:

are women less or more physically able than men?

On average.

Look at world records for various sports, and compare the men to women.

Watch an NBA game and then a WNBA game.

On average, men are stronger, faster, more agile, etc.



are women less or more intelligent than men?

Identical in overall intelligence. Some minor differences in verbal and spatiotemporal.



why is striking a woman different than striking a man?

Because to strike a woman is almost always an act of aggression on the part of man, as men are more generally aggressive.

The act itself isn't necessarily wrong, it's just usually wrong in most situations.

Rare is the situation in which you'd need to, or be justified in, hitting a woman (or any person for that matter.)



are women more or less challenged in todays society?

Than whom? Men?

No doubt.



is suffrage for women a good idea or a bad one?

Umm...

Good.



are women more or less likely to be dishonest, when compared to a male?

Don't know.

[Demogorgon]

To give an answer from a non-OIer

are women less or more physically able than men?On average men are stronger, but that it not necessarily a direct answer to your question. For instance, I am stronger than most women, and possibly most men too, but I have a wrecked ankle and walk with a stick so I am still less physically able than many people I am stronger than


are women less or more intelligent than men?I would be utterly astounded if they were. The issue of intelligence issues between genders is interesting though. Almost across the board, around the world girls out-perform boys academically. Whether that indicates greater female intelligence or that girls are just more academic than boys or that it is a case of educational style or the way boys are expected to pursue more "boyish" things, I don't know. But there certainly is not any evidence in the other direction, so it is almost certain that average female intelligence is not lower than male intelligence and possibly higher


why is striking a woman different than striking a man?It mostly comes down to differences in strength.


are women more or less challenged in todays society?Compared to men, I take it? More challenged. If you mean compared to women of the past, less challenged. Sexism is slowly fading, at least in the west.


is suffrage for women a good idea or a bad one?It goes without saying that it is a good thing. Even thinking the issue needs discussed thee days is ridiculous. You might as well say that people with brown hair shouldn't be allowed to vote


are women more or less likely to be dishonest, when compared to a male?
No idea, but I doubt there is much difference.

[534634634265]

wow, good feedback! now i respond.:):):)



are women less or more physically able than men?

i think women are less physically able than men, simply because of differences in body build, reactions such as fight or flight, etc.



are women less or more intelligent than men?

from what i've read on the subject women are actually smarter than men, in academic settings. this could be related to womens perceived inabilities physically leading to an increased drive to succeed academically.



why is striking a woman different than striking a man?

it isn't, and shouldn't be. unfortunately the perception of women as delicate , flowerlike simpletons remains strong. you can youtube videos of guys being beaten for fighting off women WHO WERE ATTACKING THEM. ridiculous in my opinion.:closedeyes:



are women more or less challenged in todays society?

i feel women are fairly equal in most fields. i think the idea of women as a repressed group is farcical in most applications, though the trade of women as sex slaves is apparently still going strong in eastern europe and the middle to far east. unfortunate that.:(



is suffrage for women a good idea or a bad one?

i think anyone and everyone should be allowed to vote, but it never hurts to field a question.



are women more or less likely to be dishonest, when compared to a male?
from my PERSONAL experience women are more likely to lie. this is due to the fact that women operate on a more emotional footing, while men tend to be more rational/logic based. women view lying as an acceptable way to protect themselves or their identity, while men tend to identify things in a more black-and-white manner, making the dishonest a terrible shade of gray.

this is the first thread i've posted where i haven't been flamed ridiculously by a mod, or treated like an idiot for no reason. what a pleasant change!:D please continue with more positive feedback!
(braced for shitstorm)

[Dean]

So i'd like feedback on what the people of OI think about women. i wont share my opinion until i've gotten a few of yours.:D
now all im talking about is general ideas/feelings, im not being specific, so neither should you.:cool:

are women less or more physically able than men?
I don't see how. They tend to be more dextrous, but less powerful. I would say that moxie is more important, so no, women seem more physically able.


are women less or more intelligent than men?
They seem to have the same degre of capability here.


why is striking a woman different than striking a man?
I don't think it is. Socially, it has different connotation, but I don't look at it any differently to be honest.


are women more or less challenged in todays society?
It depends. Women are often more free to talk about their emotions, which I think is a profound advantage. But they are discouraged from achieving powerful positions or economic equality in general. Women seem to have a much more refined and complicated language system, which I think has to do with their ability to show emotion more readily without being ridiculed. There isn't a clear "winner" here, but when people are put in unequal positions, nobody wins anyhow.


is suffrage for women a good idea or a bad one?
Nobody should be voting, but if we are, suffrage should be universal, period.


are women more or less likely to be dishonest, when compared to a male?
I trust women more, but I think that has to do with my upbringing. I don't think there is any real trend either way, the human today is a full-time liar about emotions, ideas, beliefs, and to ourselves. Our lies are so deep and constant that I don't think it would be possible to quantify them according to gender.

[534634634265]

^^
deep answers. you really don't see a difference in the physique of men compared to women? what about academic performance? i could show you the research disproving you if you'd like. if no one votes, how do we decide on issues? also, i didn't think of the emotional freedom women possess compared to men, but it is real. lame to be "girly" if i cry, but a woman isn't mannish if shes stoic.

[ChristianV777]

Women do get called negative terms if they behave in a manner that society considers to be too manly.

Academic performance doesn't actually show anything.
Most of those studies are outdated, because all of a sudden, after science claiming it is "innate, genetic, inborn" that women are not as good at Math as males, it's all of a sudden been proven that the way teachers reacted to female students, as well as the attitude about Math amongst male and female children, was inhibiting them from learning Math as well, and now, all of a sudden, after trying different approaches in the classroom, and with advanced technology starting to change the way girls view Math, this "innate, genetic, inborn" trait was disproven, and it was shown that it was societal/cultural reasons that females did so poorly in Math.
And, science has been having to backtrack a lot on the issue of "genetic" versus learned behaviour in recent years.
The same applies to language with male students. Go back to the Enlightenment and tell males that "women are genetically better with linguistics than males", and you'd be laughed at. In modern society, there's been an idea that things like poetry are considered "girly", so the same applies to boys as it applies to girls and Math.

[534634634265]

Women do get called negative terms if they behave in a manner that society considers to be too manly.
yeah, like tomboy. while if i cry in public im a queer. big difference in the strength of terminology. girls aren't butch for not crying, while i'm a fag if i do.



Academic performance doesn't actually show anything.

really?:confused:



Most of those studies are outdated, because all of a sudden, after science claiming it is "innate, genetic, inborn" that women are not as good at Math as males, it's all of a sudden been proven that the way teachers reacted to female students, as well as the attitude about Math amongst male and female children, was inhibiting them from learning Math as well, and now, all of a sudden, after trying different approaches in the classroom, and with advanced technology starting to change the way girls view Math, this "innate, genetic, inborn" trait was disproven, and it was shown that it was societal/cultural reasons that females did so poorly in Math.

thats all one sentence, and its really hard to read. i'm not trying to punctuation nazi, but maybe rephrase?



And, science has been having to backtrack a lot on the issue of "genetic" versus learned behaviour in recent years.
The same applies to language with male students. Go back to the Enlightenment and tell males that "women are genetically better with linguistics than males", and you'd be laughed at. In modern society, there's been an idea that things like poetry are considered "girly", so the same applies to boys as it applies to girls and Math.

show me your facts, and prove to me their veracity.:confused:
my facts were based on several studies, a brief summary of which could be found in Times Magazine. i've never seen any proof that genetics had anything to do academic performance, short of genetic handicaps such as downs syndrome, etc. where did you find anything substantiating that women do poorly in math? females actually do better in math, and in all academic fields.:)
this may be due to the fact that the stereotypical male isn't a thinker but a doer. while the stereotypical female isn't allowed to "do" much at all.:closedeyes:

poetry, in my opinion, was never girlie. how else would we have romanticism? there has always been a fine cultural line between being romantic/idealistic, and being effeminate. linguistics and math are gender neutral, the culture that the student is part of probably has more to do with what fields they excel in. (ie. physically driven, competitive males, and academic,homebody type females)

[Dean]

^^
deep answers. you really don't see a difference in the physique of men compared to women?
I do. But I happen to think that dexterity is more important than physical strength.


what about academic performance? i could show you the research disproving you if you'd like.
Intelligence is far detached from academic performance.



if no one votes, how do we decide on issues?
WE form a committe, and the concerned parties voice their interests. Voting should always be a last resort when peopel cannot agree on something.


also, i didn't think of the emotional freedom women possess compared to men, but it is real. lame to be "girly" if i cry, but a woman isn't mannish if shes stoic.
Yes, but there are still stigmas for women. I just think that men have a much more conformist social order when it comes to emotions.

[ChristianV777]

yeah, like tomboy. while if i cry in public im a queer. big difference in the strength of terminology. girls aren't butch for not crying, while i'm a fag if i do.


really?:confused:


thats all one sentence, and its really hard to read. i'm not trying to punctuation nazi, but maybe rephrase?



show me your facts, and prove to me their veracity.:confused:
my facts were based on several studies, a brief summary of which could be found in Times Magazine. i've never seen any proof that genetics had anything to do academic performance, short of genetic handicaps such as downs syndrome, etc. where did you find anything substantiating that women do poorly in math? females actually do better in math, and in all academic fields.:)
this may be due to the fact that the stereotypical male isn't a thinker but a doer. while the stereotypical female isn't allowed to "do" much at all.:closedeyes:

poetry, in my opinion, was never girlie. how else would we have romanticism? there has always been a fine cultural line between being romantic/idealistic, and being effeminate. linguistics and math are gender neutral, the culture that the student is part of probably has more to do with what fields they excel in. (ie. physically driven, competitive males, and academic,homebody type females)

No. I think there are other derogatory words used about women who are seen as too aggressive. Think about it a little bit.
Perhaps you need to rethink negative terminology if being called "gay" is the worst idea others can have about you.
It's negative, because you are not homosexual, but is it really that big of a deal if someone does think you are homosexual? Our sexual preferences aren't our identities, and if anything, that is far more negative towards homosexuals with its stereotypical ideas.
There are other ways females are stigmatized also. Look at the realm of sexual promiscuity, for one.

Academic performance is the sole definer of intelligence?
You should really rethink that.
What if someone is bored in school or doesn't find any reason to care about school, but yet, they have above average intelligence? Should their grades/test scores be the sole determinant of their intelligence levels?
Couldn't there be external factors that effect academic performance?
You yourself are pointing to cultural reasons later within your same response.

The sentence you refer to is punctuated. Commas are punctuation.
If you can't handle sentences longer than a few words, I'm not going to rephrase for your benefit. Sorry.

I don't understand your point.
I was going on the assumption that your theory was based in the idea that males' brains and females' brains worked differently due to genetic differences.
There were studies at an earlier time that showed that males were better at Math, while females were better at linguistics, because of genetic reasons having to do with their brains. These theories were later disproven.
What facts did you present exactly? That "women are smarter than men"? This is a declarative statement actually. You present it as a fact because it appeared in Time Magazine? I'm sure most everyone here isn't well-versed in the history of Time Magazine, so without the exact context of the article, I'm not sure what exactly to even argue for or against, other than that "women are smarter than men", which exists in a void.
If you are arguing against the socio-cultural hypothesis, but are not arguing for the genetic hypothesis, for what, exactly, are you arguing?
I'd have to have a concrete understanding of your exact theory.
You address stereotypical ideas about males and females, so do you accept that the way society reacts to and treats the different sexes plays an influential role in gender differences?

[Socialist18]

are women less or more physically able than men?Yes, generally but not always.


are women less or more intelligent than men?Sex is irrelevant to intellect.


why is striking a woman different than striking a man?Its not to me, its sexist if you think it is.


are women more or less challenged in todays society?I dont think so


is suffrage for women a good idea or a bad one?Good.


are women more or less likely to be dishonest, when compared to a male?Not in my opinion, no.

:)

[534634634265]

No. I think there are other derogatory words used about women who are seen as too aggressive. Think about it a little bit.
Perhaps you need to rethink negative terminology if being called "gay" is the worst idea others can have about you.
It's negative, because you are not homosexual, but is it really that big of a deal if someone does think you are homosexual? Our sexual preferences aren't our identities, and if anything, that is far more negative towards homosexuals with its stereotypical ideas.
There are other ways females are stigmatized also. Look at the realm of sexual promiscuity, for one.

thats true, but im thinking in terms of how one is defined by sex. men are defined generally as either manly or woman-like, with little in between ground. women can be a wide range of things contained in the idea of what a women should be. i do give you that women face a much larger wall of bullshit when it comes to promiscuity, though.

Academic performance is the sole definer of intelligence?
You should really rethink that.
What if someone is bored in school or doesn't find any reason to care about school, but yet, they have above average intelligence? Should their grades/test scores be the sole determinant of their intelligence levels?
Couldn't there be external factors that effect academic performance?
You yourself are pointing to cultural reasons later within your same response.

not the sole definition, but an easy to evaluate one. grades/test scores aren't the only measure of academic performance. i agree culture affects this, thats why i asked if people felt women were more challenged in our society. i think they are, and i'm not arguing that point as we agree.

The sentence you refer to is punctuated. Commas are punctuation.
If you can't handle sentences longer than a few words, I'm not going to rephrase for your benefit. Sorry.

oh ok, it has commas.:rolleyes:
it wasn't a sentence longer than a few words, it was a multi line paragraph, and also a terribly formed run-on sentence. i could read it, and obviously addressed the points you raised in it. i just wanted to comment on the difficulty with which i read it.

What facts did you present exactly?

i didn't, but i offered to. i asked you to present YOUR facts.

If you are arguing against the socio-cultural hypothesis, but are not arguing for the genetic hypothesis, for what, exactly, are you arguing?
I'd have to have a concrete understanding of your exact theory.

well friend, this was an opinion question, so its not a matter of exact theories. i find that both society and genetics play a role. men are more predisposed to be physical, while women intellectual.

You address stereotypical ideas about males and females, so do you accept that the way society reacts to and treats the different sexes plays an influential role in gender differences?

most definitely, but it isn't the sole determinant. thats too simple a view in my opinion.

heres some sources for you. the Times Magazine article is now"premium content" and im not wasting my money on those people.

http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=are-women-really-better-with-language&print=true

http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200005/war-against-boys

http://www.heritage.org/research/education/wm563.cfm

[ChristianV777]

No. I think there are other derogatory words used about women who are seen as too aggressive. Think about it a little bit.
Perhaps you need to rethink negative terminology if being called "gay" is the worst idea others can have about you.
It's negative, because you are not homosexual, but is it really that big of a deal if someone does think you are homosexual? Our sexual preferences aren't our identities, and if anything, that is far more negative towards homosexuals with its stereotypical ideas.
There are other ways females are stigmatized also. Look at the realm of sexual promiscuity, for one.

thats true, but im thinking in terms of how one is defined by sex. men are defined generally as either manly or woman-like, with little in between ground. women can be a wide range of things contained in the idea of what a women should be. i do give you that women face a much larger wall of bullshit when it comes to promiscuity, though.

Academic performance is the sole definer of intelligence?
You should really rethink that.
What if someone is bored in school or doesn't find any reason to care about school, but yet, they have above average intelligence? Should their grades/test scores be the sole determinant of their intelligence levels?
Couldn't there be external factors that effect academic performance?
You yourself are pointing to cultural reasons later within your same response.

not the sole definition, but an easy to evaluate one. grades/test scores aren't the only measure of academic performance. i agree culture affects this, thats why i asked if people felt women were more challenged in our society. i think they are, and i'm not arguing that point as we agree.

The sentence you refer to is punctuated. Commas are punctuation.
If you can't handle sentences longer than a few words, I'm not going to rephrase for your benefit. Sorry.

oh ok, it has commas.:rolleyes:
it wasn't a sentence longer than a few words, it was a multi line paragraph, and also a terribly formed run-on sentence. i could read it, and obviously addressed the points you raised in it. i just wanted to comment on the difficulty with which i read it.

What facts did you present exactly?

i didn't, but i offered to. i asked you to present YOUR facts.

If you are arguing against the socio-cultural hypothesis, but are not arguing for the genetic hypothesis, for what, exactly, are you arguing?
I'd have to have a concrete understanding of your exact theory.

well friend, this was an opinion question, so its not a matter of exact theories. i find that both society and genetics play a role. men are more predisposed to be physical, while women intellectual.

You address stereotypical ideas about males and females, so do you accept that the way society reacts to and treats the different sexes plays an influential role in gender differences?

most definitely, but it isn't the sole determinant. thats too simple a view in my opinion.

heres some sources for you. the Times Magazine article is now"premium content" and im not wasting my money on those people.

http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=are-women-really-better-with-language&print=true

http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200005/war-against-boys

http://www.heritage.org/research/education/wm563.cfm

OK.

What else do you consider to be "academic performance" other than grades and test scores?
If you say something like "reading", I'll grant you that, but that's measured in tests, so that's negated.

You've never read Joyce, have you?

I needed to have an understanding of what exactly we were arguing before I had any information to present.

OK, so you're saying genetics make males more physical, whereas it makes females more intellectual.
You'd be hard pressed to find any evidence to back this up, since science can't address questions like that.
The fact that males are, usually, physically larger doesn't have anything to do with mental aspects, but it could be a basis for socio-cultural issues.
How do you remove the cultural from the equation?
Don't you, yourself, admit that girls and boys have been raised in stereotypical situations? Such as, by showing emotions, you are considered "girly", so doesn't this condition you to react more physically rather than emotionally?

I agree there are differences between males and females if that's what you are looking for. I just find the differences to be meaningless on a societal level.

OK. I am familiar with the "War Against Boys" article.
If anything that addresses issues that the Left has constantly been trying to address, with class-based issues, rather than solely gender based issues.
I find their idea that "more girls from poorer backgrounds show up for tests than males from poorer backgrounds, and this invalidates the results on tests such as the SAT" very problematic. That seems simplistic reasoning.
Where is the comparison between male and female SAT scores of similar economic backgrounds?
I also see an agenda in that article, as it doesn't look at real world issues, where the statistics are still weighted heavily towards males. Males are more likely to be employed. Males make more money. Women are more likely to be the victim of violence. Women are more likely to be sexually molested.
The articles aren't saying females are smarter, they're (the last two) saying females have been given preferential treatment over and above males.
Obviously, I wouldn't argue that females should be treated in a preferential manner above males, or vice-versa, since the issue is equality.
IF it is true that females are more intelligent that males, doesn't this just show how poorly treated women have been in our societies though?
I'm not saying it is true, because based on IQ tests, the genders are roughly equal. The average IQ is between 90-100 points, not the average male or female IQ. Although, looking at MENSA, the statistics are 65% males versus 35% female.
If we look at narrow areas, we find certain results, but there is also evidence to contradict those statistics.

Using quotes from your article:
"Data from the U.S. Department of Education and from several recent university studies show that far from being shy and demoralized, today's girls outshine boys."
Notice that it says "today's"? I think you'll find that these statistics are new. I know for a fact that women did not always attend college at a greater percentage than males.
Have males gotten dumber? That's not exactly a scientific postulate.
Couldn't we find economic reasons for why males are falling behind females in schooling?

[534634634265]

christian, your arguments are well thought out, and intelligently put. i'm at a loss for words.:)
i think the problem we are debating is that, while you see it as solely a socio-economic problem, i see it as only partially that. i think men are genetically larger, stronger, more agile, and in most ways more physical. of course society would promote a stereotype on those grounds. if women were all huge and muscular we'd stereotype them as the "unfeeling brute". i think women are, due to their lesser physicality, more prone to be intellectual than physical.
also, because men have typically been the warriors and movers, they are typecast as a less thinking, and less emotional group. women are told that being physical is being "tomboyish". so, they find that they can compete more equally on an academic footing. men are told that being "bookish" and smart makes you a "nerd" and a "wuss". thus they try to define themselves through physical achievement.
women seem to be more capable of expressing themselves through emotional terms, and seem to find greater relief in doing so. men have been told that to express emotion is weak, and that physical reaction is "the mans way". this is bullshit, but it seems to be the prevailing way of thought in western society. i think men in a dispute are more likely to see things in terms of absolutes, due to the absolutist nature of their role. women are taught to be emotionally open, and thus see emotion-based causes more than rational or logical causes.
i don't think your wrong, or that i'm right. i do think you're pretty smart though. please, don't get bogged in one theory or another, this is pretty much all opinion and conjecture as far as i'm concerned.

in all honesty,:bored:
i started this thread more for the "are women more or less honest" bit.:rolleyes: i recently split with my S.O (significant other), and was feeling somewhat hurt. silly of me, but its lead to some good debate, so nothing lost there.