This will provide some indication as to why... - ...some cou

[Stormin Norman]

Why the Opposition from Our Supposed Allies

Some people have tried to make the bogus claim that the U.S. built Iraq's chemical and biological weapons systems. Some have claimed that the U.S. is more concerned about its economic interests than a bio-terror event. People around the world seem to be questioning the motives of my government, while giving the naysayers a pass, without scrutiny. The purpose of this post is to provide a balanced look at the interests in play regarding the Iraqi situation.

I will warn you now; countries like Germany, France, China, and Russia have put their economic interests above the bio-terror threat. Sometimes they largely share in the responsibility, being the primary engineers of the NBC (Nuclear Biological and Chemical) threat. Most of the opposition in the Security Council is a result of protecting a country's own economic gains in dealing with the Iraqi despot. Most of these countries benefit greatly from the weapons and oil trade ongoing in Iraq, and most of these countries should be lumped into the category known as the axis of evil.

Our sovereignty does not lie in the hands of a failed world government comprised of countries whose interests align with the enemies we seek to destroy. Hopefully, the following accounts will give you an idea about the complex political maneuvering and intense struggle the world is about to face. Some remain undecided, because they would like to get a general indication of who will prosper and who will fail in this newly emerging world war. The dynamics of the world is about to change.

I would be more concerned over Germany's (http://www.bulldognews.net/iraq-france.html) connection to Iraq than America's. Their socialist government has strained the diplomatic relationship it has taken over fifty years to create. It seems that the prospect of large profit margins has skewed the thinking of the German people. Once again America finds itself at odds with Gothicism.

China, no doubt, is at the heart of tensions between the United States and others. The following details will give some explanation for their reservations about the Iraqi war. Wouldn't it be suicidal to seek the permission of a nation that has threatened to nuke our West Coast? I wouldn't be surprised to find out that China was directly sponsoring al Qaeda.

In November 2000 Foreign Minister Tang Jianxuan held talks with Iraqis Deputy Prime Minister where he expressed interest in expanding "friendly cooperation with Iraq in the political, cultural, trade, economic and other areas, intensify mutual visits at various levels and further promote bilateral economic and trade ties between China and Iraq, in particular."

Source: http://www.iraqwatch.org/government/China/...fa-11-27-00.htm (http://www.iraqwatch.org/government/China/china-mfa-11-27-00.htm)

"China sells Iraq weapons systems: its fibre optic cables underpin Iraq's air defenses. Russian companies now profit from the absence of competition in Baghdad. France has a long and continuing history of ingratiating itself with Saddam's regime. If any of them blocks a swift resolution, it will stand condemned."-Tom Minchin
Melbourne, Australia

Source: http://www.guardian.co.uk/letters/story/0,...,800595,00.html (http://www.guardian.co.uk/letters/story/0,3604,800595,00.html)

China has also helped beef up Iraq's missile technology. This missile fuel deal only scratches the surface of Chinese ties to Iraq.

Source: http://www.washtimes.com/national/20021016...16-81068264.htm (http://www.washtimes.com/national/20021016-81068264.htm)

North Korea's newly found missile range is no coincidence. China also had a hand in new tensions on the Korean Peninsula.

Clearly, France does not come out smelling like a rose. More accurately, they smell like Pepe Lew Pew. Considering the headache we have endured when dealing these snobby people, the following comes as no surprise:

"Last year, France ranked No. 1 among European countries doing business with Iraq, with $1.5 billion in trade, followed by Italy, with $1 billion. Among the countries that trade with Iraq under the oil-for-food program, France ranked third, with $3.1 billion in trade since the program's start 1996. French trade under the program was surpassed only by Russia, with $4.3 billion, and Egypt, according to United Nations diplomats."

Gee, I see that it is only U.S. capitalism that you left-wing pinkos are capable of criticizing. If I were looking to indict capitalism, I would cite cases like French oil giant TotalFinaElf's economic interests in Iraq, and how France's economic policy presents a dangerous threat to the rest of the world. By partnering up with a madman, France once again aligns itself with a Hitlerian madman.

France has done more to help with Iraqi weapons, and in more of a deliberate way. I find the following account to be very disturbing:

"In March, Nabel Musawi of the London-based Iraqi National Congress told ABC News that Baghdad bought seven refrigerated trucks from Renault Trucks, the French company that is owned by Volvo of Sweden, and converted them into biological arms laboratories"

Source: NY Times (http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/oil/2002/0919threats.htm)

For all of the talk you leftist allocate to the importance of international law, I find it funny that none of you appear concerned over Russia and China breaking Iraqi embargoes for the purpose of selling weapons technology.

Source: BBC News (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/2591351.stm)

As far as biological weapons are concerned, I would be far more concerned about the vaccine-resistant strains of smallpox coming out of Corpus One (Russia), than I would about the U.S. program that was killed about thirty years ago. The prospect of Ebolapox is a very frightening development. Reports have surface about Russia creating such a nasty weapon. The Alibekov strain of anthrax was developed by a Russian scientist and is reportedly 4 times deadlier than natural anthrax. The scientists with this know how went to work for rouge nations after the collapse of the Soviet Union.

Source: CNN (http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/europe/9812/08/russia.germs/)

Your immature worldview and misplaced concern over the "evils of America" seem to ignore the true threats that are amassing in the world. It is no surprise that those countries with economic ties to Iraq are the most outspoken against the prospect of war in Iraq. Sadly enough China, Russia, France, and Germany all have oil and weapon deals with the despotic Saddam Hussein and his regime.

Even more alarming remains the vile nature of the weapons they developed, their lack of concern over the security of their weapons information, and the lack of importance placed on a possible attack with something like ebolapox. What is it going to take for you illiberals to learn that the threat is real. If smallpox is released, there is no telling what rate the disease will spread. The k factor for this agent is unknown. Previous models operate under the assumption that ring vaccination works. With genetic work exposing the virus to the IL-4 gene, there is reason to believe a vaccine will not be effective. The human death toll could surpass anything we have see before in history. Wake up! This is not a partisan, anti-American issue. This is an issue for all humanity, even the vermin on the left. Smallpox will not care that you stuck up for Saddam Hussein as he produced his NBC weapons. You will be dead.

(Edited by Stormin Norman at 11:11 pm on Jan. 31, 2003)

[Stormin Norman]

What, nobody is going to try and defend the French, Russians, Chinese, or Germans on this?

[RedComrade]

It would be rather odd for a communist to defend a capitalist power. All of the countries you listed are opportunists as far as Im concerned and I really think very few of them are opposed to the war for ideological reasons. One thing i think you and me agree on Norm is that most of those countries are jealous of America. If they were in Americas shoes things would be little better. Its the system that is as fault from my view not an individual nation, I am hardly going to defend a capitalist power over another, one nation over another; never they all must go.

[Edelweiss]

I stopped at "Their socialist government" in connevtion with Germany. LOL.

[Anonymous]

It's sad, after all we've done for them, are only allies end up being the UK, Poland, and the Czech Republic.

[Stormin Norman]

[quote]I stopped at "Their socialist government" in connevtion with Germany. LOL.[/url]

Come on now, even if you disagree about Germany being socialist, I am sure you will see the truth about the rest of what I have to say. If not, tell me were I am wrong, Malte.

[Capitalist Imperial]

The lack of appreciation to America for all that it has done for all of these nations is nothing short of dispicable.

[Edelweiss]

Why should I defend a government that I deeply despite? I'm not denying the viable trade relations betwen Germany and Iraq, but nevertheless that has nothing to do with Germany's position on a war on Iraq.. A war on Iraq, and the rebuilding of the Iraq after the war and the lifted sanctions would be a bless for Germany's economy. The position of Schroeder can be mainly explained with the inner-political situation here, he already won the national elections with his anti-war stance, and he's also trying to repeat that now for the upcoming important elections in two German states. Schroeder isn't a socialist or a "pinko" as CI once called him, his economic politics are nearly neo-liberal, and his government was one of the driving forces of the illegal Nato attack on Yugoslavia, a war justified by the Schroeder government with massive propaganda lies, and a war which could have been rejected with the same arguments as Schroeder is using now for the war on Iraq.

[Stormin Norman]

This is a first. Both Malte and I agree that there is no defense for the actions of the German government, and that the Nato bombing of Yugoslavia was unwarranted. I also agree that anti-American sentiment has a large part in Schroder's reaction to the war in Iraq. However, I am not willing to down-play the importance that Germany's economic interests play in their reluctance to back a long time ally.

I find it interesting that everyone is willing to accuse the U.S. of being interested in Iraq solely for the oil in that region, while they completely ignore the shady ties all of these countries have with Iraq. Economic interest, anti-Americanism, and anti-semetism all play an important part in the opposition to America's war for self defense.

[Stormin Norman]

Malte,

Political makeup of government

The Social Democratic Party of Germany (Sozialdemokratische Partei Deutschlands-SPD) became the largest party in the Bundestag at the September 1998 elections, and has a majority in the Bundesrat. The Christian Democratic Union (CDU) currently holds power in four of the Länder, the Christian Social Union (CSU) holds power in Bavaria, and the SPD holds power in the remaining eleven. Gerhard Schröder of the SPD announced his Federal Government on Oct. 28, 1998, in coalition with the Green party.

History of the Social Democratic Party

Tell me if my facts are wrong.

-In 1863 the SPD was founded in order to promote Marxist ideology. They are in fact socialists.

-In 1878 Otto von Bismark (some would say founder of the welfare state) imposed a ban on socialists

-!890, after the ban was lifted the socialists became the largest party in Germany

-1919 Socialist elected president of Weimar Republic

-1933 National Socialist Party siezes power and eliminates members of the SPD

-1945 SPD reemerges as a viable party

-1959 The Bad Godesberg Plan makes the SPD "the people's party", as it sought to downplay the role of Marxism within the party. The SPD became a catch-all party. It did not relinquish all ties to Marxist ideologies, but sought to attract a broader range of socio-economic diversity to win an overwhelming majority.

-1969 The SPD became a member of the majority coalition, and brought welfare and social spending to the table.

-1980's SPD loses power

-1990 The SPD emerges in East Germany, where they had been engulfed by the only party allowed to exist, the communist party.

-1998 Gerhard Schroder elected chancellor. Soon he sought to establish a "red-green" coalition government.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

It is clearly evident that SPD's foundation lies in socialist principles. Maybe it was necessary for them to deemphasize their origins and underlying agenda, but their purpose remains socialist in nature. Since 41% of the governing body is represented by the SPD, I think it is safe to say that the German government is socialist in nature.

Here is a nice diagram of the current makeup of Germany's legislature (http://www.germanembassyottawa.org/gac/parties.html).

Would you like to tell me again how Germany fails to be socialist? I wonder how the mix of Christianity and Socialism will look this time around. Hopefully, the new government will not repeat the ugly mistakes of Germany's past.

(Edited by Stormin Norman at 11:45 pm on Feb. 1, 2003)

[Dhul Fiqar]

Stormin: do some reading on the chemical weapons thing before you make assertions like that: http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,276...,866942,00.html (http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,866942,00.html)

"The US provided less conventional military equipment than British or German companies but it did allow the export of biological agents, including anthrax; vital ingredients for chemical weapons; and cluster bombs sold by a CIA front organisation in Chile" (this is about the Iran-Iraq war).

Finally:

"A 1994 congressional inquiry also found that dozens of biological agents, including various strains of anthrax, had been shipped to Iraq by US companies, under licence from the commerce department.

Furthermore, in 1988, the Dow Chemical company sold $1.5m-worth (£930,000) of pesticides to Iraq despite suspicions they would be used for chemical warfare."

So that pretty much destroys the first part of your post (citing "bogus" claims that the US aided weapons programs in Iraq), but I hate this part of the forum and I don't like arguing with uninformed people, so I'll let that be that.

--- G.

[Stormin Norman]

I notice that you leftist can not provide any sources besides the hard-left Guardian publication. As I have said before, the claim you are making is disingenous. It takes certain aspects of the truth and attempts to paint a less than honests picture of U.S. cupability for Iraq weapons of mass destruction.

As for your claim that U.S. exported bio-chemical weapons to Iraq I have dealt with it on another thread (http://www.che-lives.com/cgi/community/topic.pl?forum=22&topic=1494&start=20).

Cluster bombs are conventional and there is no reason for the United States not to sell them to what was considered an ally.

Pesticides are a legitimate product to fight insects. Simply because the Guardian states that there were "suspicions they would be used for chemical warfare", doesn't convince me that this is, in fact, true. Who suspected and when did they state this. If the commerce department was signing off on growth medium and biological agents for academic use without concern, why would someone have reservations about pesticides? At the time of delivery, there was no reason to suspect unscrupulous behavior on the part of the Iraqis. However, this is not the case in the weapons deals that are being brokered by Germany, France, Russia, and China today. They are fully aware of the danger this guy represents.

Watch who you are calling uninformed, you dumbass.

[suffianr]

Hey, this looks like another "It's US against the World" thread!

And here we have another underlying "Why everybody perceivably hates us! thread isn't going to go very far because the point that SN trying to make is that Other Nations are indeed selfish and self-delusional when it comes to defining who the enemy of the moment is...Yes, oil matters. And so do "diplomatic opportunities" and "bilateral ties", but at what cost?

Talk of failed world governments isn't going to help, either...Besides, logically, wouldn't Other Nations have more to benefit by complying with US mandates within the UN Security Council, than not?

Why run the risk of pissing off the World's Biggest Superpower? Just to protect bilateral trade with Iraq? Iraq? Why is Iraq worth defending?

Why, isn't the US going to pound Iraq into the ground, and then divide the shares accordingly? In the words of DC, "To the UK, Poland, and the Czech Republic!"

[AntifaNP]

I want to respond two common mistakes made by right wingers and also leftists.

The United States did not free Europe from Nazism

This is something they tell us in school since we are 6! By "United States" it is meant the American State not the people.

Have you forgotten that the US joined the war in 1942?! Have you never heard that the US businesses sold arms to the Nazis?

What about the Russians? They lost millions fighting the Nazi state. Of course they never say the communsit freed us...

I think that both the American and Russian governments didn't fight Fascsim. When Spainish anti-fascist were demanding support against Franco's army only the USSR helped, their help was very small since they also helped the betrayal inside the republcian armies.

Still the everyday people from EVERY country joined to defend and beat fascists. We owe them not their governments.

Furthermore, if the US government protected our freedom why do they want to make us support their plans? Is this freedom?

I don't hate THE us

TV and radio stations claim pacifist and leftist dislike and hate americans. I don't and never seen any of my camarades hate them. We are struggling against the Colonialist US government as well as the European colonialist powers. We are fighting the army generals.

No one hates the US people.

[mentalbunny]

I'm bored of these thread, of the capitialists always going "so this is hwo they repay us for everything we did for Europe". Well it's an old tune and one that no one but you sings, so give up. We aren't interested in what you're saying, we don't believe in your war for oil, under the pretence of helping the Iraqis, when it's them that are going to die while you can attempt tog et saddam, and fail, again, and if you succeed you'll give them a nice puppet rigeime. How kind of you, I don't think.

[guerrillaradio]

Quote: from Stormin Norman on 11:06 am on Jan. 31, 2003
Why the Opposition from Our Supposed Allies

Some people have tried to make the bogus claim that the U.S. built Iraq's chemical and biological weapons systems. Some have claimed that the U.S. is more concerned about its economic interests than a bio-terror event. People around the world seem to be questioning the motives of my government, while giving the naysayers a pass, without scrutiny. The purpose of this post is to provide a balanced look at the interests in play regarding the Iraqi situation.

I will warn you now; countries like Germany, France, China, and Russia have put their economic interests above the bio-terror threat. Sometimes they largely share in the responsibility, being the primary engineers of the NBC (Nuclear Biological and Chemical) threat. Most of the opposition in the Security Council is a result of protecting a country's own economic gains in dealing with the Iraqi despot. Most of these countries benefit greatly from the weapons and oil trade ongoing in Iraq, and most of these countries should be lumped into the category known as the axis of evil.

Our sovereignty does not lie in the hands of a failed world government comprised of countries whose interests align with the enemies we seek to destroy. Hopefully, the following accounts will give you an idea about the complex political maneuvering and intense struggle the world is about to face. Some remain undecided, because they would like to get a general indication of who will prosper and who will fail in this newly emerging world war. The dynamics of the world is about to change.

I would be more concerned over Germany's (http://www.bulldognews.net/iraq-france.html) connection to Iraq than America's. Their socialist government has strained the diplomatic relationship it has taken over fifty years to create. It seems that the prospect of large profit margins has skewed the thinking of the German people. Once again America finds itself at odds with Gothicism.

China, no doubt, is at the heart of tensions between the United States and others. The following details will give some explanation for their reservations about the Iraqi war. Wouldn't it be suicidal to seek the permission of a nation that has threatened to nuke our West Coast? I wouldn't be surprised to find out that China was directly sponsoring al Qaeda.

In November 2000 Foreign Minister Tang Jianxuan held talks with Iraqis Deputy Prime Minister where he expressed interest in expanding "friendly cooperation with Iraq in the political, cultural, trade, economic and other areas, intensify mutual visits at various levels and further promote bilateral economic and trade ties between China and Iraq, in particular."

Source: http://www.iraqwatch.org/government/China/...fa-11-27-00.htm (http://www.iraqwatch.org/government/China/china-mfa-11-27-00.htm)

"China sells Iraq weapons systems: its fibre optic cables underpin Iraq's air defenses. Russian companies now profit from the absence of competition in Baghdad. France has a long and continuing history of ingratiating itself with Saddam's regime. If any of them blocks a swift resolution, it will stand condemned."-Tom Minchin
Melbourne, Australia

Source: http://www.guardian.co.uk/letters/story/0,...,800595,00.html (http://www.guardian.co.uk/letters/story/0,3604,800595,00.html)

China has also helped beef up Iraq's missile technology. This missile fuel deal only scratches the surface of Chinese ties to Iraq.

Source: http://www.washtimes.com/national/20021016...16-81068264.htm (http://www.washtimes.com/national/20021016-81068264.htm)

North Korea's newly found missile range is no coincidence. China also had a hand in new tensions on the Korean Peninsula.

Clearly, France does not come out smelling like a rose. More accurately, they smell like Pepe Lew Pew. Considering the headache we have endured when dealing these snobby people, the following comes as no surprise:

"Last year, France ranked No. 1 among European countries doing business with Iraq, with $1.5 billion in trade, followed by Italy, with $1 billion. Among the countries that trade with Iraq under the oil-for-food program, France ranked third, with $3.1 billion in trade since the program's start 1996. French trade under the program was surpassed only by Russia, with $4.3 billion, and Egypt, according to United Nations diplomats."

Gee, I see that it is only U.S. capitalism that you left-wing pinkos are capable of criticizing. If I were looking to indict capitalism, I would cite cases like French oil giant TotalFinaElf's economic interests in Iraq, and how France's economic policy presents a dangerous threat to the rest of the world. By partnering up with a madman, France once again aligns itself with a Hitlerian madman.

France has done more to help with Iraqi weapons, and in more of a deliberate way. I find the following account to be very disturbing:

"In March, Nabel Musawi of the London-based Iraqi National Congress told ABC News that Baghdad bought seven refrigerated trucks from Renault Trucks, the French company that is owned by Volvo of Sweden, and converted them into biological arms laboratories"

Source: NY Times (http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/oil/2002/0919threats.htm)

For all of the talk you leftist allocate to the importance of international law, I find it funny that none of you appear concerned over Russia and China breaking Iraqi embargoes for the purpose of selling weapons technology.

Source: BBC News (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/2591351.stm)

Of course. You're right. France and the rest are (at least partly) opposed to the war cos of self-interest. Forgetting the amount of wars the US has entered to better their economy, I think we should examine the chief reason (or what should be the chief reason) for their opposition: its unpopularity with the people. Look at the thread I started with a bunch of statistics from Central European polls. CI's response was along the lines of "yeah well, you suck and the French are pussies" (what us teens call jockspeak). A proper response one of these days would be nice. :)

[mentalbunny]

GR, asking for a proper resonse is too much, you'll never get one!

[Rastafari]

Well, If this country had managed to come anywhere close to the ideals it set forth way back when, I think we would all be patroits and brothers, alike. Thomas Jefferson wanted a system based not on economic status, but on ability as a worker-the agricultural idea similar to a marxist theory. But alas, the hearts of men are dark, and greed quickly and effectively seperated this Ideal Nation into Conservative "Patriots/Pseudo-Fascists" and Liberal "Hippy/Commy Scum". Shame, isn't it

[Dhul Fiqar]

Stormin': Then I take it you support anyone wanting to sell pesticides and cluster bombs to Saddam these days too. If they are after all such incredibly harmless materials that have nothing to do with WMD ;)


--- G.

[Stormin Norman]

No, I wouldn't. That's why I am critical of the German, French, Russian, and Chinese people. Now, everyone knows the threat this man poses, yet these countries continue to do business with him.

In the 1980's we supported Iraq in its war with Iran. Support means providing weapons, intelligence, and training. There is nothing out of the ordinary about selling cluster bombs to a friend, and we didn't have the knowledge about his bio-chemical weapons program that 8 years of inspections has provided. There was no indication that Saddam was using these materials for nefarious purposes.

Besides you have yet to tell me exactly what types of pesticides were being sold, the chemical composition, how the pesticides are converted the chemical weapons, or even what the MSDS sheet for these pesticides looks like. You have given me nothing to go off of except a secondary source that states it as a matter of fact, without providing information useful in making a serious determination about what significant threat these unnamed compounds posed. Can you give me one chemical equation? Can you even name the compound used? Anything?

[Stormin Norman]

Still waiting for the hard data pertaining to the pesticides DOW Chemical Corporation sold to Iraq.

[Stormin Norman]

Hey Malte,

Are you ever going to answer my continued assertion the Germany's legislature is, in fact, comprised mostly of socialists?

[Edelweiss]

Quote: from Stormin Norman on 8:57 pm on Feb. 2, 2003
Hey Malte,

Are you ever going to answer my continued assertion the Germany's legislature is, in fact, comprised mostly of socialists?

LOL. for someone like you, even Bill Clinton is probaply a socialist. But in reality, the Schröder government is not a bit of socialist. And Schröder shurely wouldn't call himself a socialist. Of course tradional social democracy is based on socialist principles, but that says nothing about the politics of today's SPD government. The tradional Social-Democrats in the German government, like Oskar Lafontaine, who was Minister of Finance after the SPD won the elections in 1998, have no power within the party any more. Lafontaine was just minister for a few months, than he resigned, because he saw no chance for his leftist ecomomic politics within the Schröder government. And although Schröder is tending a bit more to the Left and the unions since the last elections, he is still far away from being socialist. His politics are much nearer to neo-liberalism than to socialism. His government made many concession to the major companies, so that they didn't paid a cent of taxes for years, while more and more social welfare was reduced. Schröder once was called as the "Genosse der Bosse", the "comrade of the bossses", I think that says it all.

One more corrction:

You said "The Social Democratic Party of Germany (Sozialdemokratische Partei Deutschlands-SPD) became the largest party in the Bundestag at the September 1998 elections, and has a majority in the Bundesrat. The Christian Democratic Union (CDU) currently holds power in four of the Länder, the Christian Social Union (CSU) holds power in Bavaria, and the SPD holds power in the remaining eleven. "

which is not true any more, the conservatives have now the majority in the Bundesrat, and Schröder just lost another state the the CDU in state elections on last sunday. That means that the CDU can block nearly everything which comes from the Schröder government in the Bundesrat, one more fact which makes it impossible for the SPD to make socialist politicss, even if they would be willing to make that.

[Stormin Norman]

which is not true any more, the conservatives have now the majority in the Bundesrat, and Schröder just lost another state the the CDU in state elections on last sunday. That means that the CDU can block nearly everything which comes from the Schröder government in the Bundesrat, one more fact which makes it impossible for the SPD to make socialist politicss, even if they would be willing to make that.

Ah, I did not know that. This is an interesting new development. Maybe I should have more faith in the German people than I do.

[James]

Its like when people call Labour left wing!

[Stormin Norman]

Labour is left wing.

[James]

BWA HA HA HA HA!!!

A left wing government that backs PFI? The free market? Student fees? does nothing about the House of Lords and monarchy? Basically NO socialist policies. Left wing? Yeah... SURE sm... what ever you say...

[guerrillaradio]

Quote: from Stormin Norman on 8:50 pm on Feb. 5, 2003
Labour is left wing.

LOL...keep up to date with British politics, please?? The one thing Tories, New Labourites, Lib Dems, and Old Labour can agree is that New Labour is not left-wing.

[James]

Maybe SM was making a joke or something...??

[Anonymous]

Center-left maybe...but still left. And that's all that matters.


(Edited by Dark Capitalist at 2:49 am on Feb. 6, 2003)

[Old Friend]

Here is some more dirt on the French, Kapitan. Don't worry, Frogger is in good company among the Chinese, the Russians, The Germans, and even Saddam Hussien himself. The French are a very admirable people. Ahem!

[Socialist Pig]

Have you American capitalists always had such hatred towards the french? Does it some it have something to do with their refusal to submit to your government?

(Edited by Socialist Pig at 7:47 am on Feb. 25, 2003)

[Old Friend]

No, I think it came after we rebuilt Europe, and then had bastards like the French spit in our faces, while we are trying to defend our Nation.

Probably the most interesting correlation in all of this diplomatic manuevering, has got to be how Eastern European nations, which have been exposed to communism, mostly back the U.S. in its war efforts. Why would this be?