Class-based numerals

[pusher robot]

Has anyone given any serious thought to whether numbers would be reformed following a revolution? It seems to me that since base-10 has been used as a tool of oppression for a very long time, Marxists ought to be pushing for a much more logical base, like base-12. Base-12 is empowering to the worker, allowing him to evenly divide by 2, 3, 4, and 6, instead of only 2 and 5 like base-10. So what do you think?

[Dr Mindbender]

i dont see any reason to reform numbers any more than it would be necessary to reform the alaphabet since presumably the same logic would apply.

To me it would appear to be a counter-productive unnecessary distraction that would serve to create ambiguity more than anything.

[pusher robot]

i dont see any reason to reform numbers any more than it would be necessary to reform the alaphabet since presumably the same logic would apply.

To me it would appear to be a counter-productive unnecessary distraction that would serve to create ambiguity more than anything.

I think reforming the alphabet is different, as (at least the English) alphabet is already rather concise, and furthermore words and their spellings tend to evolve naturally on their own anyways, moreso than numerals. Base-12, on the other hand, is so clearly superior to base-10 that the transformation from the latter to the former would have consequential advantages.

[Dr Mindbender]

I think reforming the alphabet is different, as (at least the English) alphabet is already rather concise, and furthermore words and their spellings tend to evolve naturally on their own anyways, moreso than numerals. Base-12, on the other hand, is so clearly superior to base-10 that the transformation from the latter to the former would have consequential advantages.
As a maths student i prefer to use divisible integers of 10. But then i grew up with the metric system so i feel comfortable with that.

[pusher robot]

As a maths student i prefer to use divisible integers of 10. But then i grew up with the metric system so i feel comfortable with that.

There's no reason why the metric system can't use base-12. In fact, it would be far more convenient to use for everyday tasks. Why do you think the foot has 12 inches? Having a base-12 metric system would give us the best of both worlds.

Why, as a maths student, are you so attached to base-10?

[Kami]

There's no reason why the metric system can't use base-12
Yes there is - it'd be bloody confusing. we'd have 84 centimeters in a meter, for one. Changing number system is utterly unnecessary, and quite frankly silly.

[Cult of Reason]

I actually agree with the dozenalists, but it is far from the highest priority.

[Qwerty Dvorak]

10 is a great number. Because if you want to square it you just add another 0 onto the end.

[Kami]

dozenalists
actually, they're duodecimalisationalists ^^

[Dr Mindbender]

There's no reason why the metric system can't use base-12. In fact, it would be far more convenient to use for everyday tasks. Why do you think the foot has 12 inches? Having a base-12 metric system would give us the best of both worlds.

Why, as a maths student, are you so attached to base-10?

perhaps its just my comfort zone but i find less ambiguity in even integers.

[Killfacer]

i fail to see the point in changing everything and confusing people.

[pusher robot]

Yes there is - it'd be bloody confusing. we'd have 84 centimeters in a meter, for one. Changing number system is utterly unnecessary, and quite frankly silly.

Really? Was it silly when we switched from Roman numerals to Base-10?

And how did you arrive at the number 84 may I ask? A base-12 metric system would have 12*12=144 centimeters to the meter, which of course would be written as "100." But that "100," unlike the current "100," would be evenly divisible by twice as many factors.


perhaps its just my comfort zone but i find less ambiguity in even integers.

Then you ought to be on my side! What's 1/3 of 100Base10? 33.3333333...ad inifinitum. What's 1/3 of 100Base12? 40. What's 1/6 of 100Base10? 16.66666666.... I thought you liked even integers! 1/6 of 100Base12? 20. I'll repeat: Base-12 allows for twice as many evenly divisible factors as Base-10. By your own criteria, it is a superior base.

[Cult of Reason]

actually, they're duodecimalisationalists ^^

"Dozenalists" is preferred since "duodecimal" means ten plus one, or "12", rather than twelve, which in a "dozenal" system would be "10". Two new symbols for ten and eleven would have to be added.

[pusher robot]

10 is a great number. Because if you want to square it you just add another 0 onto the end.

Only because you write it in base-10 numerals! Duh!

[Kami]

And how did you arrive at the number 84 may I ask? A base-12 metric system would have 12*12=144 centimeters to the meter, which of course would be written as "100." But that "100," unlike the current "100," would be evenly divisible by twice as many factors.
I was assuming we would be keeping a meter at the same length it is currently. If we're changing the length of a meter, that just exarcerbates the problem.

[Comrade Rage]

Just keep the number system the way it is, for fucks sake. It'll make a lot more sense, especially if we want to go metric.

[Bud Struggle]

After the Revolution we should go to base 2...with the 1 standing for the Capitalists and the 0 standing for the Communists.

Since there won't be any Capitalists after the Revolution we will only use the Communist number to count our surpuluses. :)

[Qwerty Dvorak]

Only because you write it in base-10 numerals! Duh!
Which is the optimal system using 10 different digits. Adding two new digits would be quite a change.

[Demogorgon]

We have ten fingers.

[Bud Struggle]

We have ten fingers.

I use my toes, too--base 20!

[pusher robot]

NO!

[pusher robot]

We have ten fingers.

What are you, some kind of biological determinist? Restrict!



Which is the optimal system using 10 different digits. Adding two new digits would be quite a change.

We're talking about a global communist revolution which would involve the complete abolition of private property, total reversals in interpersonal dynamics, and the utter destruction of the current political economy that bedrocks virtually every aspect of modern life - and you're concerned about adding two little numerals?

AND - as an added bonus - it would make it much easier to switch to metric time.

[Die Neue Zeit]

^^^ What a pathetic thread this is coming from a propertarian. If there were any sort of Robespierre-era changes on the side, I'd start with the alphabet and adopt the 100+ distinct letters, 50+ diacritics, and 4 prosody marks of the current International Phonetic Alphabet. That way, spelling errors can be avoided.

[Luís Henrique]

I agree with changing the numeric system into the 12 base - on a condition. That we also make dodecaphonic music mandatory.

Now that is actually revolutionary and socialist. Equal rights for all notes, down with the dictatorship of Tonic and Dominant!

Luís Henrique - Marxist-Schoenberguist

[Bud Struggle]

I'd start with the alphabet and adopt the 100+ distinct letters, 50+ diacritics, and 4 prosody marks of the current International Phonetic Alphabet. That way, spelling errors can be avoided.

Is it something in the culture or in the blood that makes you Communist STRIVE to make life as dull as humanly possible.

Prosody--thy name is the Communist Revolution. :)

[Luís Henrique]

We have ten fingers.

Which is excellent for counting in base 6.

1 finger in the left hand - 1
.
.
.
5 fingers in the left hand - 5
1 finger in the right hand - 6
1 finger in the right hand and 1 finger in the left hand - 7
.
.
.
1 finger in the right hand and 5 fingers in the left hand - 11
2 fingers in the right hand - 12

and so on.

Luís Henrique

[Luís Henrique]

Is it something in the culture or in the blood that makes you Communist STRIVE to make life as dull as humanly possible.

Prosody--thy name is the Communist Revolution. :)

No - it is a mere reflection of the fact that not all Communists understand the difference between phonetics and phonemics.

Luís Henrique

[Die Neue Zeit]

Is it something in the culture or in the blood that makes you Communist STRIVE to make life as dull as humanly possible.

Prosody--thy name is the Communist Revolution. :)

Written Chinese has no alphabet. Japanese has three alphabets. It's time people smartened up by expanding the "Latin" alphabet. :)

[Bud Struggle]

No - it is a mere reflection of the fact that not all Communists understand the difference between phonetics and phonemics.

Luís Henrique

Can't say I can claim better for the other side of the the barracades.:(

Tom

[Dr Mindbender]

Then you ought to be on my side! What's 1/3 of 100Base10? 33.3333333...ad inifinitum. What's 1/3 of 100Base12? 40. What's 1/6 of 100Base10? 16.66666666.... I thought you liked even integers! 1/6 of 100Base12? 20. I'll repeat: Base-12 allows for twice as many evenly divisible factors as Base-10. By your own criteria, it is a superior base.


I dont know america, but here our ruling instruments are typically based on degrees of 10's and 5's. I find it a lot easier to use multiples of 10's and 5's when drawing graphs.

Theres something about the number 3 which is a factor of 12 that i dont like.

[Demogorgon]

On an interesting note. Native American peoples traditionally counted using the spaces between their fingers, rather than their fingers themselves and so used a base-8 system.

[Qwerty Dvorak]

What are you, some kind of biological determinist? Restrict!



We're talking about a global communist revolution which would involve the complete abolition of private property, total reversals in interpersonal dynamics, and the utter destruction of the current political economy that bedrocks virtually every aspect of modern life - and you're concerned about adding two little numerals?

AND - as an added bonus - it would make it much easier to switch to metric time.
Are you denying that it would be a big change to undertake?

[Schrödinger's Cat]

I was under the impression we were going to slowly eliminate all numbers. Unequal values. Very inegalitarian.

[pusher robot]

I dont know america, but here our ruling instruments are typically based on degrees of 10's and 5's. I find it a lot easier to use multiples of 10's and 5's when drawing graphs.

Theres something about the number 3 which is a factor of 12 that i dont like.

You only find it easier because it's in base 10. That's my whole point. Who really needs to find a fifth of something all that often? Halves, thirds, quarters...that's the real action, and it's much simpler in base 12.

[pusher robot]

Are you denying that it would be a big change to undertake?


It's not a big change compared to the changes advocated by revolutionary communists.

[Demogorgon]

You only find it easier because it's in base 10. That's my whole point. Who really needs to find a fifth of something all that often? Halves, thirds, quarters...that's the real action, and it's much simpler in base 12.

A site I buy wargames stuff from marks everything down 20% from its RRP. Fifths matter:lol:

[pusher robot]

A site I buy wargames stuff from marks everything down 20% from its RRP. Fifths matter:lol:

In base-12 20% would be a sixth. Just as convenient!

[Robert]

Who really needs to find a fifth of something all that often?Lotsa guys:

http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:FesJIzvYu46dnM:http://nhr-records.com/Snowfall-DeliriumTremenscover.jpg

[Panda Tse Tung]

It makes sense actually, but i don't think it should be some sort of priority.

[Qwerty Dvorak]

It's not a big change compared to the changes advocated by revolutionary communists.
Who cares about them, they're loopers :lol:

In all seriousness though, just because leftists advocate a number of radical changes doesn't mean that they should support every radical change fathomable. That doesn't make sense.

[Bud Struggle]

In all seriousness though, just because leftists advocate a number of radical changes doesn't mean that they should support every radical change fathomable. That doesn't make sense.

With that kind of talk--no wonder you are in OI. :lol:

[534634634265]

dont the french use a vigesimal notation system? that would be base24 would it not?

EDIT: upon further thought this is base20. 90 in french is quatre-vingt dix, thus vigesimal correct?