"Secret Jew", "Jew name", etc.

[jake williams]

So, as I'm wont to do, I was thinking about the whole Barack-Obama-Secret-Muslim bit. I have a pretty deep masochistic streak and I spend a lot of time thinking about things I probably shouldn't.

So I was thinking about what would happen if you took, not just the Fox reports, but Anderson fucking Cooper, and simply word-for-word replaced the term "Muslim" with "Jew". So you have folks theorizing about whether or not he (or a hypothetical white politician, if it makes it easier to picture) is a "Secret Jew", because, you know, I'm not saying he is, but he has a "Jew name" and Americans will be suspicious, you know he says he's a Christian but I don't know if Americans can trust him.

Can you picture this at all? Anyone saying this would be lynched! You couldn't do it! And they get away with it! The ADL would poison your children before you could even think it. At very least you would be considered a psychotic anti-Semite and you would never work in public life ever again, ever - quite legitimately. Anyone who would say this would be a psychotic anti-Semite and shouldn't be considered employable.

But when people make "accusations" that maybe he's a Secret Muslim, the only thing people get upset about is how that might be mean to him.

What the fuck? We all know America is a psychotically racist country (not that it's alone at all), but how is no one pointing out that this is first and foremost offensive to Muslims? How is it that our great Hope-ful superboy doesn't have the integrity to ever mention this fact even in passing as far as I remember hearing?

[Black Dagger]

I feel what you're saying, and i agree that is a double standard. Perhaps this is because in the US 'jewishness' is viewed more in 'racial' terms than 'muslimness'? I'm not sure.

[jake williams]

Perhaps this is because in the US 'jewishness' is viewed more in 'racial' terms than 'muslimness'? I'm not sure.
I thought a bit about that, and it may be a small part of it. But then again many/most Americans, and certainly the ones who are either engaging in this sort of discussion or who are worried that he might be, barely know the differences between Arabs and Muslims, never mind the differences between Maghrebi Arabs, peninsula Arabs, Levant Arabs, Iranians, Pakistanis, Afghans, West African Muslims, Sudanese Muslims, Somali Muslims, and Kenyan Muslims. In short I think the subtlety is lost on them.

[RedAnarchist]

How are "Anderson" and "Cooper" Jewish names?:confused:

Besides, I don't get why people think Obama's name is Muslim - his names are more Middle Eastern or Muslim-influenced, but not necessarily Muslim, unless someone thinks that all Middle Easterners are Muslim or something.

[RHIZOMES]

How are "Anderson" and "Cooper" Jewish names?:confused:

Besides, I don't get why people think Obama's name is Muslim - his names are more Middle Eastern or Muslim-influenced, but not necessarily Muslim, unless someone thinks that all Middle Easterners are Muslim or something.

Which is what the people who accuse him of being a secret Muslim think.

[Bilan]

Which is what the people who accuse him of being a secret Muslim think.

It would be a subconscious thought, or an assumption, less than a "secret thought".
And its perpetuated by Western imagery of the Middle East, and through its faux understanding. So it's a subtelty which has its basis in propaganda and constructed imagery, rather than (necessarily) overt racism and ignorance (Though the latter are certainly a part of it, what I'm getting at is the average American who thinks that...)

[jake williams]

How are "Anderson" and "Cooper" Jewish names?:confused:
What?

[RedAnarchist]

What?

You mentioned this Cooper guy and I was wondering why you thought either of his names were Jewish. You were probably just using him as an example, though.

[Lector Malibu]

You guys are right on the money. America is a ferociously racist country. It is not just limited to the old timey view between whites and people of color. Racism is rampent in alot of different faucets of American society.

Not to derail but some of the worst racial tensions I have seen recently is not between whites and people of color. It's actually between Mexicans and Hispanics. To add to that both groups tend not to think too highly of blacks ..So I'm surrounded :lol:

I digress though. America was built on racism It is so deeply ingrained I do not think it will end here. Yes some things have gotten better and alot of things have stayed the same.

[Yehuda Stern]

Perhaps this is because in the US 'jewishness' is viewed more in 'racial' terms than 'muslimness'?

I doubt it. It has more to do with the fact that currently, the American ruling class has to hide its anti-Semitism because of its alliance with Israel, but anti-Muslim propaganda comes in handy in the time of the "war on terror."

[jake williams]

You mentioned this Cooper guy and I was wondering why you thought either of his names were Jewish. You were probably just using him as an example, though.
No no. Anderson Cooper is a CNN reporter. He's done some stories about Barack Obama's "alleged" secret-Muslimhood. I was using him as an example of a spineless media personality, not as a person with a "Jew name".

If I recall correctly one of his presentations was about how Obama may have attended a "madrassa". This example is illustrative. "Madrassa" does not mean "religious school" - it is literally the normal Arabic word for school. Like if you say some kids are walking to school, you translate school as "madrassa" (مدرسة). This conflation of Arab and Muslim (which given the two identities' intertwined history does make some sense) blurs the lines between "religion" and "race".

[ChristianV777]

It's obvious that in the American psyche post-9/11 the term "Muslim" has negative connotations and "Muslim" is synonymous with "Middle Eastern" in the view of so much of the propaganda we're seeing.
And, therefore, people with an agenda are trying to turn voters against Obama (The Democrat Socialist!:lol:) and towards the Republican by putting the two together in peoples' minds...."Obama=Muslim. Muslim=Enemy."
It is blatantly racist. If Obama was a Muslim, I would hope he would come forth and say, "You're right. I am. What's the problem?", but in reality, Obama attended a Christian church for most of his life and is not Muslim.

[jake williams]

but in reality, Obama attended a Christian church for most of his life and is not Muslim
Obviously. I doubt he's even that much of a Christian. He grew up with basically a secular upbringing. His relationship with the "black church" probably has more to do with the political community he found working with black organizers than Jesus. And it's not like no American politician has ever faked a personal relationship with his very own lord and saviour in order to win some votes. Bush much?

[JamilD]

What is really so wrong even if Obama WAS Muslim? So WHAT if his middle name is Hussein. I know lots of Husseins. Tons. I'm Muslim, I'm not radical, I'm just like anybody else... yet it seems that every one in three people call me a terrorist. I was held for an hour at customs. And no-one in my family wears a hijab, let alone a burka. And if 0.00001% of all Muslims have committed acts of "Terrorism", why should all Muslims be stereotyped that way?

That's the end of my rant.

[jake williams]

What is really so wrong even if Obama WAS Muslim?That's basically my point. People in Western countries are disproportionately murderous, disproportionately support terrorism (not to mention genocide), etc.

The fact that it seems like only Muslims are pointing out that the most absurd bit about this is that "Muslim" is somehow an epithet now, and even they rarely, is what disturbs me. I'm not a Muslim and I disagree strongly with a lot of Muslim beliefs, but I mean, just to get started you could argue plausibly that Muslim Americans are better educated both about their own religion and the world than are American Christians on average, whilst they practice their respective religions in essentially the same way. And it is just ridiculously racist, and transparently so.

[Decolonize The Left]

I'm sorry, but wouldn't spewing propaganda about a major television anchor being Jewish only fuel antisemitism?

- August

[jake williams]

I'm sorry, but wouldn't spewing propaganda about a major television anchor being Jewish only fuel antisemitism?

- August
What?

[Decolonize The Left]

What?

Sorry, I wasn't clear. I was addressing your words:

So I was thinking about what would happen if you took, not just the Fox reports, but Anderson fucking Cooper, and simply word-for-word replaced the term "Muslim" with "Jew". So you have folks theorizing about whether or not he (or a hypothetical white politician, if it makes it easier to picture) is a "Secret Jew", because, you know, I'm not saying he is, but he has a "Jew name" and Americans will be suspicious, you know he says he's a Christian but I don't know if Americans can trust him.

I believe that this would only further antisemitism as you are attaching a serious negative connotation to being Jewish.

- August

[jake williams]

Sorry, I wasn't clear. I was addressing your words:


I believe that this would only further antisemitism as you are attaching a serious negative connotation to being Jewish.

- August
I think I got what you meant eventually, and while it might indeed have that effect for some people, it wouldn't be the overall reaction, at least in public life. Like I don't think a candidate would angrily deny it as a "smear" - it would be considered anti-Semitic if he did, because it would be. And I don't think the press would go along with it.

Granted, I'm referring to it happening in a vacuum, which obviously wouldn't happen and that's the whole point. You need a whole culture of accusing people of being "secret Muslims" just like Nazi Germany needed a whole culture of accusing people of being "secret Jews" - it wouldn't have meant anything if one crazy stood up and decided to do it, I don't think. The point is that a major propaganda trend in American media is defaming Muslims, so this is nothing new or special, whereas if someone said that about Jews it would be considered extremely abnormal.