what do anarchists want?

[trivas7]

Communists want to bring about the communist mode of production. What do anarchists want?

[gla22]

immediate communism.

[trivas7]

immediate communism.
That's rather unrealistic, don't you think?

[apathy maybe]

Anarchists want an end to hierarchy and oppression, and a free society.

We don't all want "communism" (immediate or otherwise), because not all anarchists accept that communism would be a free society.

However, those anarchists that do want communism are very much communists. (Though they aren't Marxists in the main. Please don't confuse "communist" with "Marxist", they are two distinct and different terms with different meanings.)


And that's all I'll say, as I suspect that this thread is a troll thread. There are heaps of threads out there, including stickied ones, explaining what it is that anarchists "want".

http://www.revleft.com/vb/making-sense-anarchism-t6416/index.html is a great start, or do a search for "anarchism" (which might turn up such threads as http://www.revleft.com/vb/do-anarchists-want-t30794/index.html )

[trivas7]

And that's all I'll say, as I suspect that this thread is a troll thread. There are heaps of threads out there, including stickied ones, explaining what it is that anarchists "want".

The point of my question is to discern whether or not anarchists understand anything positive they strive for. If you consider that a troll question, so be it.

[Joe Hill's Ghost]

Communists want to bring about the communist mode of production. What do anarchists want?

What is the communist mode of production? Seems like most marxists are light on details about this magical land.

[trivas7]

What is the communist mode of production?


14. What will this new social order have to be like?

Above all, it will have to take the control of industry and of all branches of production out of the hands of mutually competing individuals, and instead institute a system in which all these branches of production are operated by society as a whole -- that is, for the common account, according to a common plan, and with the participation of all members of society.

It will, in other words, abolish competition and replace it with association.

Moreover, since the management of industry by individuals necessarily implies private property, and since competition is in reality merely the manner and form in which the control of industry by private property owners expresses itself, it follows that private property cannot be separated from competition and the individual management of industry. Private property must, therefore, be abolished and in its place must come the common utilization of all instruments of production and the distribution of all products according to common agreement -- in a word, what is called the communal ownership of goods.

In fact, the abolition of private property is, doubtless, the shortest and most significant way to characterize the revolution in the whole social order which has been made necessary by the development of industry -- and for this reason it is rightly advanced by communists as their main demand.

-- F. Engels, The Principles of Communism

[apathy maybe]

The point of my question is to discern whether or not anarchists understand anything positive they strive for. If you consider that a troll question, so be it.

Come again? Anarchism is a very broad set of theories, and all of them strive for "freedom", and against "hierarchy and oppression". Is that positive?

Some anarchists see a free society as taking a communist form, others as a proper free market of individuals interacting without pressure (capitalists aren't anarchists, and free markets can exist without capitalism, if you want me to expand on this point, start a thread, better idea, search old threads).

You say that "Communists want to bring about the communist mode of production.", well how is that positive? Why is communism a good thing?

Yes, this is a troll thread, you are posting deliberate crap to get a response from people.

[Joe Hill's Ghost]

-- F. Engels, The Principles of Communism

In other words what anarchists want, communal ownership via association, no state or hierarchy. Really now trivias, stop being silly. There are mounds of books written on this subject.

[trivas7]

In other words what anarchists want, communal ownership via association, no state or hierarchy. Really now trivias, stop being silly. There are mounds of books written on this subject.
Your point being?

[revolution inaction]

What is the communist mode of production? Seems like most marxists are light on details about this magical land.
Since I started reading these forums I'v seen severel of them claim that it means equal pay :) or even pay according to work :lol:


Communists want to bring about the communist mode of production. What do anarchists want?


Very roughly I see the post revolution world something like this
Society should be organised by all of its members, not a minority. Freedom so long as you don't infringe anyone else's freedom. Production organised by the workers (everyone able to work would be expected to work but not all the time), and distribution according to need (you can decide what you need your self unless there is a shortage, in which case things would be rationed until the cause of the shortage was resolved)

[trivas7]

Yes, this is a troll thread, you are posting deliberate crap to get a response from people.
I take it that for you communists and anarchists have nothing to say to each other.

[Joe Hill's Ghost]

Your point being?

Well you asked what we want. And I pointed out that we both want the same thing really. Then I pointed out that anarchists have written mounds on this subject. Kropotkin alone fills up a small box.

[apathy maybe]

I take it that for you communists and anarchists have nothing to say to each other.

What the fuck are you talking about? Many anarchists are communists!

Are you conflating Marxism and communism? Because that is a really stupid mistake and won't get you any respect.

And to answer your question as if you had said "Marxist" instead of "communist", then I do think that Marxists and anarchists have a lot to say to each other. However, asking "what positive things do anarchists want" in what appears to be a provocative manner isn't the way to go about it.

Heck, even if you meant "Leninism" (or Trotskism or whatever), yes anarchists and whatever brand of crap you are trying to peddle has things to say. Anarchists have taken critiques and theory from other strands of leftism before.


Seriously, did you really think that the sort of question you asked in the original post hadn't been asked before? Did it really not occur to you to have a look through the archives or do a simple search?

There is so much stuff on anarchism that if you (who has some how managed to get over 550 posts...) really wanted to know...

I've seen your posts around the board, and I haven't been impressed. You have had very little positive to say about anarchism, and a lot of negativity towards it, and yet it appears that you don't even know much about it!

So yeah, forgive me for thinking that this thread was a troll...

[Dros]

What is the communist mode of production? Seems like most marxists are light on details about this magical land.

Perhaps you think that because you've never read enough Marx to understand what he was talking about. Marx clearly defines the Communist mode of production several times. Or perhaps you want someone to predict the future for you...

Look up the "Four Alls".

[Glenn Beck]

The point of my question is to discern whether or not anarchists understand anything positive they strive for. If you consider that a troll question, so be it.


Come again? Anarchism is a very broad set of theories, and all of them strive for "freedom", and against "hierarchy and oppression". Is that positive?

Maybe he was intending to be provocative, but I didn't get the impression that when he used the term "positive" he meant good. Anarchism is usually stated negatively "we DON'T want (state/hierarchy/bosses/rain on Saturdays/whatever)". So what ultimate goal do anarchists have that is analogous to Marxist communists seeking to replace capitalism and socialism with the communist mode of production?

[Forward Union]

Communists want to bring about the communist mode of production. What do anarchists want?

Loosely the same thing.

The difference is that Anarchits have a different structural proposal for the dictatorship of the proletariat. Bodies such as the millitary are to be organised hierachically, but managed by a democratic federation of workers councils or "soviets" as opposed to a particular party or state.

This structure is much more difficult to subvurt or currupt, impossible to behead, and organic.

There are many proposals. For a long time, Anarchism was the dominant variation of Communism. The problem is that Anarchism has failed to pull together organisationally, and present a coherant platform. Consiquently the main connective feature of anarchist groups is their objection to the state and capitalism. More so than their proposals for the future, which even many united anarchist bodies fail to present.

The fact that you can ask such questions seriously (and I certainly do consider your question to be one of genuine curiosity) shows a tremendous failure of anarchism to organise and engage with society. Its a problem which needs to be rectified.