I give up in frustration!

[bleedingheart]

Not the leftist ideology which I admire, but the fond hope that the world will be a better place.:mad:

Leftist ideology is only for people who can think, analyze, and ponder over various issues affecting man. But in a world where people are still judged by the color of their skin, is there any hope that something as intellectually challenging as communism would ever be embraced by humanity?:blink:

Considering the superficial world in which we live, it seems as if people are inherently programmed to be capitalist-greedy, selfish, racist, etc.:closedeyes: So even though I am communist, I am beginning to wonder whether people will ever become mature enough to accept communism.

Sorry for the rant, but I feel so f*****g frustrated, when I am constantly judged by the color of my skin, whereas mediocre people are judged favorably just because they happen to belong to a certain race.:rolleyes: In such a sick, shallow world, do you think communism, which essentially revolves around the unity of the working class, will ever be embraced by people who love to divide themselves into innumerable races, religions etc.?

[RedAnarchist]

Welcome to RevLeft:)

First, the frustration is understandable. Its a necessary part of life to be honest when it comes to radical politics. Yes, the world sucks in many ways, but there is ways in which we on the left can improve the world greatly.

Communism will happen, one day. Its just such a human idea that we think its impossible because of the inhuman society that capitalism has created.

I hope you'll stick around, ask questions and tell us what you think, because you seem intelligent and we need to keep the bright ones around! ;)

[Dean]

Not the leftist ideology which I admire, but the fond hope that the world will be a better place.:mad:

Leftist ideology is only for people who can think, analyze, and ponder over various issues affecting man. But in a world where people are still judged by the color of their skin, is there any hope that something as intellectually challenging as communism would ever be embraced by humanity?:blink:

Considering the superficial world in which we live, it seems as if people are inherently programmed to be capitalist-greedy, selfish, racist, etc.:closedeyes: So even though I am communist, I am beginning to wonder whether people will ever become mature enough to accept communism.

Sorry for the rant, but I feel so f*****g frustrated, when I am constantly judged by the color of my skin, whereas mediocre people are judged favorably just because they happen to belong to a certain race.:rolleyes: In such a sick, shallow world, do you think communism, which essentially revolves around the unity of the working class, will ever be embraced by people who love to divide themselves into innumerable races, religions etc.?

Communism is basically the opposite of racism: it is the ultimate unity and association, as opposed to the divisiveness of racism and sexism. Racism and nationalism are products of a capitalist society, and looking at a society in lieu of its racist tendencies is therefore disingenuous to the question at hand.

[Raoul_RedRat]

Perhaps this is the wrong thread to ask such a general question. But one question that sparked my mind is, would you think communism would require an entire different human to succeed?

A human that has no connection, recollection or even a conception of our current society and it's divisions.

I think your frustration is not only part of having such radical and profound ambitions, but is also partially the source for understanding what is needed to change.

[ChristianV777]

I think it will have to be gradual. Not reformist, but that the first generation will carry negatives from the past society with us (well, not "us" since I'm pretty sure I'll be long dead before anything resembling true Socialism is won).
This is certainly a major issue, one that the majority of people will need to be constantly aware of. People will have to be aware of all ideologies brought forth under Patriarchal, Statist, Capitalist, propertied societies. We're all affected by so many ideologies every minute of every day. People will have to be aware to protect the right of all people to be totally free, as long as their freedom doesn't impede the freedom of anyone else.

Bleeding Heart-I understand exactly how you feel. I refuse to talk to anyone about issues of race anymore, unless of course it's a progressive point of view. I just can't stand to hear people ask questions based solely in race. It's so incredibly primitive thinking (to use the word in a pejorative sense, and I realize racism, as the word is understood today, only came about fairly recently in human development).
How can you even think about creating any sort of a better world when people are still thinking of others as "black people" (etc.) rather than fellow human beings?

I think the most important thing to realize is that we on the Left are not gifted people. We're not intellectually superior or a better breed or anything like that. We're just humans like everyone else, so if there are people who do not carry racist ideology, it gives hope that it is possible to think above such shallow ideologies for all people.
Otherwise, if it wasn't possible, everyone would be a racist.
Working class struggles have shown that they can overcome the narrow race agenda promoted by corporations, States, and fascists. Working together, in solidarity, with people of every race (and sex) will create bonds.
We just have to struggle for a united International working class movement.

[Matty_UK]

Misanthropy is counter-revolutionary.

People are smarter than you're giving them credit for. Talk about basic socialist concepts that are likely to affect them, workers control being the most universally appealing, (and fundamental!) to your average working class person and you'll probably find them agreeing, just so long as you don't call yourself a communist.

People have the ideas, it's just they're indoctrinated to believe being a communist is something awful.

[otto von bismark]

people usually find communism more appealing than national socialism

[Dr Mindbender]

I think when you get depressed like this you have to take inspiration from history.

Once upon a time, it was the norm for people to take a deep rooted suspicion of anyone who deviated from christian doctrine, as they would be ostracised as suspected witches, or something ridiculous like that. Anyone who actively defended them would also recieve the same sort of contempt and also end up on a bonfire.

However the winds of change came with little assistance other than the evolving human intelligence. I still think we are still on this same learning curve and the the reactionaries and fascists we face today are nothing more than the intellectual descendents of witch hunters and round earth deniers.

However we wont have to wait so long for their demise as there is an active, organised effort to defeat them in the guise of the worldwide worker's struggle.

[Reuben]

This is certainly an interesting thread. One thing i would say is that individuals -oursleves perhaps included - tend to hold a variety of contradictory ideas and viewpoints. You may have noticed that for example that people who speak up for racial equality may themselves sometimes hold racist viewpoints. However the the reverse is also true.

Perhaps a useful tool for understanding the way in which people sometime hold contradictory ideas is Gramsci's notion of dual consciousness. The idea here is that while people's outlook may be influenced by the constant ideological onslaught of the ruling class, people also derive their outlook from their day to day experience of capitalism.

And this i think is important. Revolutions do not simply happen because the mass of people are intellectualy convinced of the validity of Marxism. Revolution happen because capitalism workers necessarily creates the potential for class conflict.

[Decolonize The Left]

Leftist ideology is only for people who can think, analyze, and ponder over various issues affecting man. But in a world where people are still judged by the color of their skin, is there any hope that something as intellectually challenging as communism would ever be embraced by humanity?:blink:

Hmm.. it seems we have a misunderstanding. Communism is most certainly intellectually challenging if one wishes to study it in an academic fashion. But in reality, communism is very, very, simple - accessible to everyone of all walks of life. It deals with the most basic element of human life: labor. It deals with the conditions of existence: freedom, equality. Nothing more, nothing less.

Sure one could study the different branches of thought, dive deep into Marxism to understand the intricacies of the disassociation of the laborer. But on another level one only needs to understand that we are united through our production, and we need only work together to realize our freedom and equality through a structural system based on the principle of 'to each according to need, from each according to ability.' It is towards this realization (meant literally) that we must strive together.


Considering the superficial world in which we live, it seems as if people are inherently programmed to be capitalist-greedy, selfish, racist, etc.:closedeyes: So even though I am communist, I am beginning to wonder whether people will ever become mature enough to accept communism.

Indeed, we are trained to be sheep: apathetic consumers trailing into nihilism. But that's where communism (and/or anarchism) comes in - it is the alternative.


Sorry for the rant, but I feel so f*****g frustrated, when I am constantly judged by the color of my skin, whereas mediocre people are judged favorably just because they happen to belong to a certain race.:rolleyes:

I am deeply sorry you suffer from racism. As a fellow member has mentioned, perhaps turn to history. We have made much 'progress' in terms of realizing our freedom and equality - but we have more to make.


In such a sick, shallow world, do you think communism, which essentially revolves around the unity of the working class, will ever be embraced by people who love to divide themselves into innumerable races, religions etc.?

When you posit that people are like that, no. But this is an unfair question on your part. If we can work with others to overcome racism, sexism, religion, homophobia, etc.. then the answer is a resounding yes. Can we do this? Of course we can - otherwise we wouldn't be revolutionaries!

- August

[bleedingheart]

Thanks, all of you, for the kind words and encouragement. Yes, when in doubt, look at history, and be happy that dramatic and drastic changes DID occur in a short span of time. So yes, there's always hope.:)

[YadaRanger]

[quote=bleedingheart;1199810]

Considering the superficial world in which we live, it seems as if people are inherently programmed to be capitalist-greedy, selfish, racist, etc.:closedeyes:

Brother Brother brother. (or sister?)

I feel for you. This is something that we all deal with, but the thing that we have to realize is. Humans have been around for millions of years, and the portion of our human history that has been run by capitalism, slavery, and so on is such a SMALL part. If we look at the system the the natives in north America had for thousands of years its really quite amazing, they use a type of market-anarchy system that was family based. (simmaler to Africa pre-islam pre-white man)

Change will come! But they real question is will things better or worce. And the answer is.... BOTH! The challenge is remaining compassionate enough to keep up the struggle and to learn how YOU can make real change in peoples minds in this life time that will determan and define the lives of the next.

Look at the work Jesus did. Sadly for him the game telephone has been around for 3000 years, lol.

What you can do is teach and write, teach and write, teach and write AND LEARN! Jesus should have did more writing him self, but instead he let his hommies write 4 him.

Jesus the man that is. The god WITH us, not over us. Our equal. thats right, we are all gods equally. Its democracy. (check the icon <---)