State of the Union address - your opinions?

[MEXCAN]

In my opinion,tonight was just the warming up of Americans on the war against Iraq!?Bush did not say officially,but in my mind,war is imminent!!!

What was hilarious to me,was his speech on healthcare and unemployment.

[Jaha]

he promised to help the africans with AIDS.

he better not fucking lie about that.

if he is lying, than he is just a morbid bastard.

[MEXCAN]

here is a transcript of bush's speech http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/01/28/...ript/index.html (http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/01/28/sotu.transcript/index.html)

[MEXCAN]

he also said that if he bombs Iraq,he will also make sure to give aid to the people and give them FREEDOM !!!

[canikickit]

International Hero!

http://www.thegully.com/essays/america/img_usa/bush-balancing.jpg

[Tkinter1]

wow what an akward picture.

[Lardlad95]

I find it funny that they said the US and strong aliances conquered Iperialism and communism...

The US never conquered Communism..the soviet union fell on it's own

not to mention the US is imperialist

and I counted 416.6 billion projected for programs that bush wants to implement

not to mention the upcoming war on iraq qhich if prolonged will cost and estimated 2 trillion

and the threat of war with North Korea

so a war on two fronts?

Thats 2 trillion 4 hundred 16 billion 6 hundred thousand dollars not including war with n. korea

and bush's tax cut is only charging some people 45 dollars in income tax?

And cutting tazes on investing?

Is Bush trying to bankrupt this country?

[Capitalist Imperial]

[quote]Quote: from Lardlad95 on 5:01 am on Jan. 29, 2003
I find it funny that they said the US and strong aliances conquered Iperialism and communism...

"The US never conquered Communism..the soviet union fell on it's own"

Come on, lardlad. To claim the Soviets simply fell on their own is to expose your lack of understanding of the cold war.

The soviet union fell in the most part because, in an nutshell, they were "outspent" by the USA. The USA and the USSR were in an arms and industry race that tested the mettle of each respective economy and ideology. Eventually, the Soviet-style central and closed economy found that it could not outspend or sustain itself like free-market capitalism, and it thus collapsed. Without the US to compete with, the USSR would probabluy still be around today. Not only did the US play a part in the fall of the Soviet Empire, the US was the major benefactor of it's fall.

"not to mention the US is imperialist"

Not with regard's to territory in the last 100 years. Any economic or cultural imperialism you refer to would be an incorrect definition at best, as we are merely extending a sphere of influence in those respects, wholy different from imperialism.

"and I counted 416.6 billion projected for programs that bush wants to implement"

I thought you leftists loved government programs.

"not to mention the upcoming war on iraq qhich if prolonged will cost and estimated 2 trillion"

Liberating an oppressed nation from a murderous, dictatorial regime, and securing our petroleum interests in the region? Money well spent if you ask me. At least I can see my tax dollars going to something worthwhile for a change.

"and the threat of war with North Korea"

Well, last time I checked they were the ones directly threatening war, as we are trying to acheive a diplomatic solution to the saber-rattling of a paranoid stalinist relic. THe DPRK would be well advised to accomodate our diplomatic approach, as in the end there is no way they can take us on.

"so a war on two fronts?"

Well, we've done it before.

"Thats 2 trillion 4 hundred 16 billion 6 hundred thousand dollars not including war with n. korea"

It will help pump activity back into the economy. Besides, much of this government spending is going to social programs that are usually much-heralded by leftists such as you.

"and bush's tax cut is only charging some people 45 dollars in income tax?"

Yes, the poor are getting a big break.

"And cutting tazes on investing?"

In an effort to spur investment activity.

"Is Bush trying to bankrupt this country?"

These economic initiatives will hardy bankrupt us. What will bankrupt us is sitting around doing nothing and allowing the false economy that Billy C. built to dwindle down even further into an abyss of futility.

[synthesis]

Liberating an oppressed nation from a murderous, dictatorial regime

Can you name even a single incident where the U.S. installed a regime that was better than the last one since WWII?

'Cause I can name a billion that are a whole lot worse, Impsky. Just ask.

[Eastside Revolt]

Quote: from MEXCAN on 3:32 am on Jan. 29, 2003
In my opinion,tonight was just the warming up of Americans on the war against Iraq!?Bush did not say officially,but in my mind,war is imminent!!!

What was hilarious to me,was his speech on healthcare and unemployment.


In my opinion, war with Iraq has been eminent since dubya came to power.

[Michael De Panama]

I thought it was especially ironic that he mentioned how we will provide the Iraqi people with food, medicine, and clothing, just as we did the Afghans, when the only reason the Iraqi people are without food, medicine, and clothing is the trade embargo we ourselves have imposed on them to weaken their economy. Bush is a true humanitarian. If only more people had a heart like him.

Capitalist Imperial:
Not with regard's to territory in the last 100 years. Any economic or cultural imperialism you refer to would be an incorrect definition at best, as we are merely extending a sphere of influence in those respects, wholy different from imperialism.

I want an explanation as to how America is not imperialist, rather than simply coloring up the wording to make it look less oppressive. I won't argue with you. We certainly ARE extending our sphere of influence. Britain extended their sphere of influence when they were an imperial power. Japan extended their sphere of influence when they were an imperial power. We're doing the exact same thing, only in these post-industrial post-monarchial times we are conquering the global economy, inherently giving us more political influence in the plutocratic society we have propped up before us.

We're waging a war with Iraq so that we can gain control of their oil. We aren't doing it to disarm Saddam, because he's that much of a threat to us. Bush doesn't have the credibility to stand on this argument. Why aren't we sending weapons inspectors to Syria, which is suspected of possessing chemical and biological weapons as well, and filled to the brim with anti-American sentiment? Why aren't we shutting down the nuclear arsenals of Israel, India, and Pakistan, all of which haven't even signed the nuclear non-proliferation treaty? Why isn't North Korea getting any of the spotlight, as it is so beautifully spitting in America's face?

Most noticably, why have we not attacked Saudi Arabia, a country that "harbors terrorism", aided the 9-11 bombers, home to plenty of chemical weaponry, and plenty of anti-American tension? The same fucking reason we're going after Iraq. Oil.

Iraq is the second largest oil distributer in the world. We want their oil, we go in and take it. We ignore that Saudi Arabia is pissing on our faces, because we're already getting their oil.

If this is not imperialism, nothing is.

I say, enough bullshit. If Bush is going to tell me and the rest of America that this is a war on all terrorists, I want this to really be a war on all terrorists. I want to see China's government shatter. I want Saudi Arabia smoked off the Earth. I want to see Jerusalem turned into a great big lake. That's right, I don't want it in the hands of the Israelis or the Palestines. I want it one big lake. I want the filthy fatass rich CEO's of every multinational corporation dropping their factories off in Indonesia, in Malaysia, in El Salvador, so that they can get away with throwing starving children into factories to make our useless material trinkets at unliveable wages to get an ass full of napalm. I want uranium showers on every Latin American puppet democracy America ever helped prop up. Then George W. Bush, as well as whoever else is responsible for all these acts of terrorism to defeat terrorism, can hang from his own noose. War is terrorism.

[Dan Majerle]

Beautifully said.

[Stormin Norman]

Excellent speech! He laid out what I told you guys months ago regarding Iraq's weapons capability. Colin Powell is slated to address the security council with newly declassified information about the evil dictators weapons of mass destruction.

[FreeVenezuela]

Quote: from DyerMaker on 6:25 am on Jan. 29, 2003
Liberating an oppressed nation from a murderous, dictatorial regime

Can you name even a single incident where the U.S. installed a regime that was better than the last one since WWII?



Have u ever read history? it seems u havent... let me give you some examples:

South Korea, Japan, Germany, France (after the fell of the nazis), western europe.

I can name you communists states that failed: Cuba, Eastern Europe, Soviet Union, North Korea, Cambodia, etc...

Yeah, Communist regimes in Cuba and north Korea are still alive but they are starving and opressing their own people, so its a failure.

Communism is a failure like it or not.

(Edited by FreeVenezuela at 1:16 pm on Jan. 29, 2003)


(Edited by FreeVenezuela at 1:17 pm on Jan. 29, 2003)


(Edited by FreeVenezuela at 9:50 pm on Jan. 29, 2003)

[Edelweiss]

I saw the Bush speech, and what pissed me off most, wasn't the predictabble content of the speech, but the nearly monarchy-like ceronomy shit which seems to be custom in the US congress. And then this standing ovations and the exaggerated cheering after every shitty sentence, from both the Rebublicans and the Democrats. I'm really glad we haven't such a pathetic political culture here in Germany.

[Capitalist Imperial]

THe best line of his address:

"We will defeat anyone who threatens the USA".

An he means anyone. I stand behind his sentiments 100%.

American sovereignty must be protected

[ID2002]

Bush is walking a REALLY THIN line....He believes his country is the center of the damn universe. His pride, and calus disregard for others is evident when he made his speech. He doesn't get...nor do I think he is smart enough too. Russia, China, N. Korea have just as much fire power as his country, and my fear is that N. Korea could put nukes on the open market for terrorists just for the hell of it. These terrorist aren't afraid to use them against American targets. Bush seems to think Iraq is a major threat....what an idiot. N. Korea is a FAR FAR bigger concern.

And with Bush's big mouth....it pisses of the opposition even more. One day, somebodies going to shut his big mouth for good, or crush his "ego" so badly that the "light" dawns on him.
...na, on second thought he's not smart enough. Someone will probably take care of this problem. His policies are going to get innocent Americans and others killed. This is why the rest of the world dislikes BUSH and his government. The man is FUCKIN' dangerous!

[Michael De Panama]

North Korea and China don't have nearly as much fire power as America does, guy. We have more than enough nukes to blow up the world ten times over, and we're still building more. The rightwingers, however, tend to believe that we are going to be using them more responsibly than other countries we happen to not particularly like. Or, at least, that's their excuse.

We would never do something like invade a country without UN authorization and attack with our weapons of mass destruction. That's what Iraq did to Kuwait. We would never stoop so low. That's a clear violation of the UN Security Council.

On another note, Bush says he's going to go ahead with the war whether the UN grants us permission or not.

God Bless Diplomacy. God Bless 'Merica.

[sabre]

i love how he said soemthing to the effect of "I will defend the american people", like we dont have the POWER to make our own descisions regarding the well being of ourselves. he wants us to place trust in this bullshit information that he is withholding from the american people that justifies this war.



how about the democratic response? i thought the guy from Washington did an excellent job of politely ripping apart bush. The democratic plans sound promising for once, they actually seek a peaceful resolution and will actually give the money out that they promise for shit, unliek bush did with the education reforms and the environmental stuff.

[Capitalist Imperial]

Quote: from sabre on 4:47 pm on Jan. 29, 2003
i love how he said soemthing to the effect of "I will defend the american people", like we dont have the POWER to make our own descisions regarding the well being of ourselves. he wants us to place trust in this bullshit information that he is withholding from the american people that justifies this war.



how about the democratic response? i thought the guy from Washington did an excellent job of politely ripping apart bush. The democratic plans sound promising for once, they actually seek a peaceful resolution and will actually give the money out that they promise for shit, unliek bush did with the education reforms and the environmental stuff.

He's not neccesarily withholding information per se, he is compiling it all so it can be delivered in one comprhensive, concise address, instead of in bits an pieces, where it will tend to become convoluted and diluted.

[Moskitto]

i was at the barber's (hairdressers) watching it and i was thinking, how do you prove you've destroyed something.

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from Capitalist Imperial on 6:16 am on Jan. 29, 2003
[quote]Quote: from Lardlad95 on 5:01 am on Jan. 29, 2003
I find it funny that they said the US and strong aliances conquered Iperialism and communism...

"The US never conquered Communism..the soviet union fell on it's own"

Come on, lardlad. To claim the Soviets simply fell on their own is to expose your lack of understanding of the cold war.

The soviet union fell in the most part because, in an nutshell, they were "outspent" by the USA. The USA and the USSR were in an arms and industry race that tested the mettle of each respective economy and ideology. Eventually, the Soviet-style central and closed economy found that it could not outspend or sustain itself like free-market capitalism, and it thus collapsed. Without the US to compete with, the USSR would probabluy still be around today. Not only did the US play a part in the fall of the Soviet Empire, the US was the major benefactor of it's fall.

"not to mention the US is imperialist"

Not with regard's to territory in the last 100 years. Any economic or cultural imperialism you refer to would be an incorrect definition at best, as we are merely extending a sphere of influence in those respects, wholy different from imperialism.

"and I counted 416.6 billion projected for programs that bush wants to implement"

I thought you leftists loved government programs.

"not to mention the upcoming war on iraq qhich if prolonged will cost and estimated 2 trillion"

Liberating an oppressed nation from a murderous, dictatorial regime, and securing our petroleum interests in the region? Money well spent if you ask me. At least I can see my tax dollars going to something worthwhile for a change.

"and the threat of war with North Korea"

Well, last time I checked they were the ones directly threatening war, as we are trying to acheive a diplomatic solution to the saber-rattling of a paranoid stalinist relic. THe DPRK would be well advised to accomodate our diplomatic approach, as in the end there is no way they can take us on.

"so a war on two fronts?"

Well, we've done it before.

"Thats 2 trillion 4 hundred 16 billion 6 hundred thousand dollars not including war with n. korea"

It will help pump activity back into the economy. Besides, much of this government spending is going to social programs that are usually much-heralded by leftists such as you.

"and bush's tax cut is only charging some people 45 dollars in income tax?"

Yes, the poor are getting a big break.

"And cutting tazes on investing?"

In an effort to spur investment activity.

"Is Bush trying to bankrupt this country?"

These economic initiatives will hardy bankrupt us. What will bankrupt us is sitting around doing nothing and allowing the false economy that Billy C. built to dwindle down even further into an abyss of futility.


lET me rephrase You aer right about teh cold war.

The US never conquered communism.

You can't conquer an ideology as long as there are still believers in it.

Sphere of influence? So the US does not try to impose it's will on the rest of the world. It doesn't want to influence them..it wants to control them.

But I can see how you wouldn't see it that way. I don't agree but thats just me(and others)

I have no problem with social programs

In fact I comend Bush for attempting to create and give money to social programs

but he can't have it both ways.

2 trillion 416 billion isn't chump change

Also I never said the US was threatening to go to war with n. korea

I said the the threat OF war.

THe problem with this tax cut is that the middle class which is the largest class wont be getting a break.

Not to mention the Rich wont be paying very much anymore

A tax cut, cuppled with the fact that they deduct practicaly everything anyway, not to mention no taxes on investing.

What the hell are they going to be paying now.

And I can't believe you would ignore the fact that this tax cut is going to help the rich.


Finally why do all these rep. always talk about Clinton's false economy?

Come on man.

Jesus all i here from republicans is that the reason we have an economic downswing is because of Clinton

but they won't give Clinton the credit for the economic boom.

I mean come on.

It's always said that a technology boom built up the economy during clinton's stint.

Technology is still on the rise. So I don't think thats necasarrily it.

[Blibblob]

Yeah, you cant conquer an idea, communism will be around forever (just not in a very large span).

What i really hated was how he stated that the US is such a wonderfull democracy, and that we will put "democracy" in the countries that we help. What fucking hypocracy. The US isnt a democracy its a fucking republic. That misinturpretation pisses me off more than any other.

[Capitalist Imperial]

Quote: from Moskitto on 7:30 pm on Jan. 29, 2003
i was at the barber's (hairdressers) watching it and i was thinking, how do you prove you've destroyed something.


scrap, remains, residue, emptied containers

[FreeVenezuela]

Quote: from Blibblob on 11:25 pm on Jan. 29, 2003
Yeah, you cant conquer an idea, communism will be around forever (just not in a very large span).

What i really hated was how he stated that the US is such a wonderfull democracy, and that we will put "democracy" in the countries that we help. What fucking hypocracy. The US isnt a democracy its a fucking republic. That misinturpretation pisses me off more than any other.


What is a democratic government for you? Cuba? Iraq? lol

[Capitalist Imperial]

Quote: from Blibblob on 11:25 pm on Jan. 29, 2003
Yeah, you cant conquer an idea, communism will be around forever (just not in a very large span).

What i really hated was how he stated that the US is such a wonderfull democracy, and that we will put "democracy" in the countries that we help. What fucking hypocracy. The US isnt a democracy its a fucking republic. That misinturpretation pisses me off more than any other.


It is a democratic republic. Are going to deny that?

[ID2002]

take note...people in CUBA are voting. But US still remains adimate that CUBA is an "axis of evil"....I laught everytime I hear that. Cuba is a pretty decent country! Hell, I'd live their in a heart beat.

[Capitalist Imperial]

Quote: from ID2002 on 11:32 pm on Jan. 29, 2003
take note...people in CUBA are voting. But US still remains adimate that CUBA is an "axis of evil"....I laught everytime I hear that. Cuba is a pretty decent country! Hell, I'd live their in a heart beat.

That would last for about 5 days.

[FreeVenezuela]

Quote: from ID2002 on 11:32 pm on Jan. 29, 2003
take note...people in CUBA are voting.

Yup, the same way people are voting in Iraq.

[ID2002]

WTF! CI I bet you've never stepped foot on Cuban soil! I have. I've lived and worked their. Never, did I see the crime that was in America or Canada for that matter. The street are clean...the education system actually works wonders. Yes, its communist. But I felt at home.
...the legal system is hard nosed, but hell....people know their place! I think Fidel has done wonders for his country, dispite the US Gov policy to irradicate him and talk down his reigme. Canada and Cuba are closely linked when it comes to trade and educational exchanges.
Fidel ain't a bad guy..just misunderstood. I've met him twice, and he is a great statesman...and good natured.

[FreeVenezuela]

Quote: from ID2002 on 12:12 am on Jan. 30, 2003
WTF! CI I bet you've never stepped foot on Cuban soil! I have. I've lived and worked their. Never, did I see the crime that was in America or Canada for that matter. The street are clean...the education system actually works wonders.


Yup, thats why the UNESCO put Cuba as the second lowest education level in Latin America and the lowest level in standards of living matters. Nice try, keep trying :-)

(Edited by FreeVenezuela at 1:00 am on Jan. 30, 2003)

[Nateddi]

Yup, thats why the UNESCO put Cuba as the second lowest education level in Latin America and the lowest level in standards of living matters. Nice try, keep trying :-)


ROFL

More idiocy.

This is abuot as true as Chavez being ousted a week from December 1st.

http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbo...ields/2103.html (http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/fields/2103.html)

This is the CIA's factbook on literacy rates. Find THREE latin american countries with higher literacy rates than Cuba.

I don't know how you would measure "lowest standards of living", but health-wise, cuba ranks with one of the lowest person/physicial ratio in the world.

JoseM, as always, writing bullshit down accepted as truth, regurgitated from the right-wing mouths of Miami cubans and rich Caracas elites.

[FreeVenezuela]

Quote: from Nateddi on 1:11 am on Jan. 30, 2003

JoseM, as always, writing bullshit down accepted as truth, regurgitated from the right-wing mouths of Miami cubans and rich Caracas elites.

Its funny how you keep calling me a "rich elite guy" when im not even rich.

[Nateddi]

Quote: from FreeVenezuela on 1:15 am on Jan. 30, 2003

Quote: from Nateddi on 1:11 am on Jan. 30, 2003

JoseM, as always, writing bullshit down accepted as truth, regurgitated from the right-wing mouths of Miami cubans and rich Caracas elites.

Its funny how you keep calling me a "rich elite guy" when im not even rich.

No, JoseM.

I said you get your sources from the elite in Caracas that dominates the commercial media, the elite which is socio-economically antagonistic to Chavez's reforms.

JoseM is not rich, perhaps so. But he is living in America. Venezuelans living in Venezuela with luxuries such as internet access and the ability to send their children to america are indeed rich, and it is in their interest to depose Chavez. If JoseM knew what Chavez really stood for, he would know why hunderds of thousands of demonstrators took to the streets to defend him and his revolution just a few days ago.

[FreeVenezuela]

Quote: from Nateddi on 1:24 am on Jan. 30, 2003
If JoseM knew what Chavez really stood for, he would know why hunderds of thousands of demonstrators took to the streets to defend him and his revolution just a few days ago.

If you knew what chavez is really doing, you would know why millions of Venezuelans demostrators are taking the streets daily in support of the opposition and presidential elections, without fear despite the fact that Chavez's Bolivarian Circles keep firing and killing opposition demostrators almost daily.

Some Anti-Chavez demostrations:
http://www.urru.org/11A/imagenes11D/Diapositiva12.JPG
http://www.urru.org/fotos/fotos20021220_oposicion/DSC01530.JPG
http://www.urru.org/11A/imagenes11D/cid_0.jpg
http://www.foronotoxico.com/imagenes/FF1.jpg

Are these people the rich and elite executives you were speaking of?

(Edited by FreeVenezuela at 1:46 am on Jan. 30, 2003)

[Nateddi]

They are members of the middle and upper classes of Caracas, using their last bursts of energy try and stop the popular revolution. They still own the elite media to broadcast their propaganda and invite sympathizers.

these are the real people of Venezuela; less colorful, less rich, less fancy, yet equally commited to defend their president and their republic from the coup plotters:

http://www.venpres.gov.ve/fotos1/images/IMG_0161_jpg.jpg

http://www.venpres.gov.ve/fotos1/images/IMG_0063_jpg.jpg

http://www.venpres.gov.ve/fotos1/images/IMG_0005_jpg.jpg

http://www.venpres.gov.ve/fotos1/images/FotoVenpres008266-EAF_jpg.jpg

[synthesis]

Quote: from FreeVenezuela on 1:14 pm on Jan. 29, 2003

Quote: from DyerMaker on 6:25 am on Jan. 29, 2003
Liberating an oppressed nation from a murderous, dictatorial regime

Can you name even a single incident where the U.S. installed a regime that was better than the last one since WWII?



Have u ever read history? it seems u havent... let me give you some examples:

South Korea, Japan, Germany, France (after the fell of the nazis), western europe.



Man, is this guy dense or what? I said since, meaning after, WWII, and he proceeds to list Germany, Japan, and France.

Western Europe? What do you mean?

I can, for example, easily describe a certain fiasco the U.S. was involved in within the borders of Greece. The United States assisted the fascist party against the Greek left; the party went on to kill over 15,000 innocent people.

Is this what you mean by "liberating" western Europe?

[FreeVenezuela]

pro chavez manifestations dont go over 100.000 people, and they do 1 pro chavez manifestation 1 time per month. Instead, anti chavez manifestations pass the half million, 1 million, and 1,5 million number daily, without receiving money like in chavez manifestations.

Did you know that chavez pay people money to go to his manifestations? thats right, a big amount of millions of $$$ are wasted in just paying the people to assist, and also trying to get them from other parts of the country. The opposition doesnt need to pay anyone and does not need to bring people from other parts of the country.

(Edited by FreeVenezuela at 2:30 am on Jan. 30, 2003)

[FreeVenezuela]

Quote: from Nateddi on 1:24 am on Jan. 30, 2003

Quote: from FreeVenezuela on 1:15 am on Jan. 30, 2003

Quote: from Nateddi on 1:11 am on Jan. 30, 2003

JoseM, as always, writing bullshit down accepted as truth, regurgitated from the right-wing mouths of Miami cubans and rich Caracas elites.

Its funny how you keep calling me a "rich elite guy" when im not even rich.

No, JoseM.

I said you get your sources from the elite in Caracas that dominates the commercial media, the elite which is socio-economically antagonistic to Chavez's reforms.



Chavez hates the media because they show the truth and the reality of the situation in Venezuela. And Chavez doesnt like when the TV shows his corrupt and criminal acts.

(Edited by FreeVenezuela at 2:44 am on Jan. 30, 2003)

[Pete]

Chavez hates the media because they show the truth and the reality of the situation in Venezuela. And Chavez doesnt like when the TV shows his corrupt and criminal acts.

Or is it the media that is targeting Chavez for helping out the poor of his country in order to bring about a better life for everyone. The only other time I have heard of the Elite rioting was in 1849 when Lord Elgin granted the Canada's Responsible Government. It has happened before so it shall happen agian. The rich and powerful moan when they are undercut, but don't all pigs squell when they die?

KILL THE BEAST CUT ITS THROAT LET IT BLEED KILL THE BEAST

[FreeVenezuela]

Quote: from CrazyPete on 2:51 am on Jan. 30, 2003

Or is it the media that is targeting Chavez for helping out the poor of his country in order to bring about a better life for everyone. The only other time I have heard of the Elite rioting was in 1849 when Lord Elgin granted the Canada's Responsible Government. It has happened before so it shall happen agian. The rich and powerful moan when they are undercut, but don't all pigs squell when they die?


Helping the poor? like increasing the taxes and cutting the wages?
And using the money to save it in his swiss account and letting the hospitals and school collapse for lack of maintenance on infrastructure? Or like buying two 60 million dollars airplanes to visit the world instead of taking care of the country?
Is that the way to help the poor? Very odd way to help the poor, dont you think?


(Edited by FreeVenezuela at 3:08 am on Jan. 30, 2003)

[Pete]

Show me some non-Amerikkka or caracas proof of this. It is the barbaric opposition who put a 100mill bounty (http://www.vheadline.com/readnews.asp?id=1091) on his head, which greatly discredits anything they say. These people are not to help anyone but their bank accounts and lush style of living. The Bolivian circles are a form of workers compact to help them selves out, a dropping of direct democracy in my understanding.

[FreeVenezuela]

Quote: from CrazyPete on 3:05 am on Jan. 30, 2003
The Bolivian circles are a form of workers compact to help them selves out, a dropping of direct democracy in my understanding.


I think you are misinformed about who are the members of the bolivarian circles.... criminals, rapists (rapists = people accused of rape), murderers, thiefs, etc... in other words, the scum of society. Those are the real members of the Bolivarian Circles.

The real workers are against chavez.


(Edited by FreeVenezuela at 3:13 am on Jan. 30, 2003)

[Pete]

I know what a rapist is. But that is besides the point. I think saying that Caracas opposition has the real workers support is like saying Bush is a democratically elected leader, and he isn't. If the workers are against Chavez, then why do I hear about 'mutinous captains'?

Until tomorrow, Cya

[Stormin Norman]

i was at the barber's (hairdressers) watching it and i was thinking, how do you prove you've destroyed something.

Considering the amount of scrutiny that this man has undergone with respect to his weapons of mass destruction, he would have gone extra lengths to provide evidence of the destruction of his stockpiles. The fact that he does not have a single vidoe tape, and did not destroy these wepaons in the presence of corroborative witnesses leads me to believe he is lying. Sorry, but that argument doesn't hold water. Do you really expect me to believe that he simply decided to destroy his weapons one day in a clandestine fashion. That seems highly unlikely considering his record. Why would he use the same amount of secrecy getting rid of his weapons that he did creating them, after all the trouble they have caused for his regime? Wouldn't he want a clear record and international agreement that his weapons had been destroyed, seeing as how Bill Clinton bombed him in 1996 for the same reason Bush is about to go to war?

[Michael De Panama]

How predictable. I suppose I'm not going to get any answers from the noble embassadors of the right wing. They'd rather address the more trivial arguments they expect from the radical left, so as to further ***** about how trivial the arguments of the radical left are.

Or perhaps their silence is just the sound of them swallowing their realization of their own ignorance.

[Blibblob]

The US is a rebublic, Bush was republicly elected. A rebublic is where you choose a few representatives, and they choose your leader. That is how it goes. Ever heard of the electorial collages? If the US was to be democratic, theyd have to have all the votes go in to elect the president. If the US was democratic, it would be Gore in the white house, not Bush.

The US feeds its false democracy around the world, democracy just sounds better than a republic.

[Capitalist Imperial]

Quote: from Blibblob on 4:37 pm on Jan. 30, 2003
The US is a rebublic, Bush was republicly elected. A rebublic is where you choose a few representatives, and they choose your leader. That is how it goes. Ever heard of the electorial collages? If the US was to be democratic, theyd have to have all the votes go in to elect the president. If the US was democratic, it would be Gore in the white house, not Bush.

The US feeds its false democracy around the world, democracy just sounds better than a republic.

But blibbob, the electoral college is still by the people. The electoral college is a minor adjustmtnt made so that large states can't Usurp all power from small states, IE all states and their respective interests are represented more fairly. (BTW in official recounts Bush still got more votes).

The US is a democratic republic. We vote in representatives who pass legislation in the interest of their respective contiturencies.

We also vote directly on legislation at local and state levels.

That is Democracy.

[Blibblob]

Personally, i would not perfer to elect some1 who will then vote for everything that will affect my life, for me. After voting for our "representatives" we then have no say so in the laws, except at the small level. Electorial collages shouldnt matter, "so that large states can't Usurp all power from small states". What? It shouldnt matter as soon as the votes come in, when you have all the votes counted, the states dont matter. Its the gross amount of people.

[Pete]

The Electorial College is in place to keep the power from the hands of the masses, since they have no real say in who is elected to President.

I am still waiting for links...

[Capitalist Imperial]

Quote: from CrazyPete on 3:02 am on Jan. 31, 2003
The Electorial College is in place to keep the power from the hands of the masses, since they have no real say in who is elected to President.

I am still waiting for links...

Its only been a factor in American elections twice.

So, over 200 years of elections, and 2 times its been yielded to "keep the power from hands of the masses."

Stay away from the funny cigarettes, dude.

[Stormin Norman]

he promised to help the africans with AIDS

If anyone can describe how 15 billion dollars for AIDS will help the African epidemic in any way, I would be more than happy to listen. In all honesty, I didn't like the tone of the speech. It was loaded with socialist ideas like healthcare and AIDS money for a foreign country. I understand that this was a 'guns and butter' speech that promised everyone everything, and most of these ideas will never go anywhere. However, that kind of attitutde only emboldens our enemies on the left. The more concessions the Republicans make, the more the left wing rodents will demand. His speech didn't appeal to me until he began speaking about a war in Iraq.


(Edited by Stormin Norman at 12:38 pm on Feb. 1, 2003)

[Capitalist Imperial]

Quote: from Stormin Norman on 12:13 am on Feb. 1, 2003
he promised to help the africans with AIDS

If anyone can describe how 15 billion dollars for AIDS will help the African epidemic in any way, I would be more than happy to listen. In all honesty, I didn't like the tone of the speech. It was loaded with socialist ideas like healthcare and AIDS money for a foreign country. I understand that this was a 'guns and butter' speech that promised everyone everything, and most of these ideas will never go anywhere. However, that kind of attitutde only emboldens our enemies on the left. The more concessions the Republicans make, the more the left wing rodents will demand. His speech didn't appeal to me until he began speaking about a war in Iraq.

My sentiments exactly!!!

Bush needs to pull back the reigns on his bipartisanship, as he has full backing of the Senate and basically carte blanche with legislation!

He should continue focus on foreign policy at the moment, cheifly Iraq and the USSR wannabe relic whose grandstanding is as empty as it's people's stomachs. (I'll give you one guess who that is.)

[Pete]

Its only been a factor in American elections twice.

So, over 200 years of elections, and 2 times its been yielded to "keep the power from hands of the masses."

Stay away from the funny cigarettes, dude.


The funny cigarettes I smoke are called 'truth' and 'books', I think I will stay as close to them as possible. :D When a supreme court must come in to appoint which prince (they are related) rules a nation, something must be wrong with the system.