More examples of French Racism - ...more racism from the Naz

[Stormin Norman]

Since France has decided to take the "moral high ground" in the war against Iraq, which is typical of the yellow bastards that were the only unoccupied country to facilitate Nazi termination of the Jews, I have decided to provide ample evidence of the despicable actions they have taken over the years. I offered to give canikickit more incidents of French racism, so here are some recent examples.

French mayor indicted for refusing to conclude the wedding of Morrocans (http://www.arabicnews.com/ansub/Daily/Day/021109/2002110918.html)

French consolate refuses to allow a grandmother entry in order to help with daughter's new born triplets (http://www.arabicnews.com/ansub/Daily/Day/011224/2001122433.html)


Here is a quote from a paper that analyzes French racism in Indochina during colonial times:

"Colonial racism did not operate by homogenizing the non-whites into a single entity. Instead, there were several distinct categories into which the various non-whites fit. While these variations and differences in the construction of "race" reflected an understanding of real and important ethnic distinctions, they were also an expression of racist prejudices in the dominant mentalité of the French of Indochine. The patterns of French racism present an insight into the construction of white identity."-fromThe Good, The Bad, and the Ugly: Variation and Difference in French Racism in Colonial Indochine; by Michael G. Vann (http://www.redboat.com/virtualhanoi/goodbadugly.html)


Apparently French anti-semetism is once again on the rise. This is not surprising considering France's history with the Nazis. It looks as if things are getting so bad that the National Assembly had to pass legislation to prevent further outbreaks of Jewish violence. Here is a source:

Your favorite source (http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,1280,-2234786,00.html)

I will post more examples later. For now I must get to work on Thermodynamics. That's all for now.

(Edited by Stormin Norman at 1:06 am on Jan. 28, 2003)

[Anonymous]

France never had a "ok" president, always had right winger morons... Burguase control is more evident in france than anywhere else...
my granpa was right all the time...

[Guest]

You forget that France was occupied by the Nazis because they declared war on Germany, not because they volunteered.

[LOIC]

Unfortunately, there are racists in every country, not only in france.
There is the kkk in the u$a.

So what's the goal of this thread?

(Edited by LOIC at 10:27 pm on Jan. 27, 2003)

[MEXCAN]

Quote: from LOIC on 10:24 pm on Jan. 27, 2003
Unfortunately, there are racists in every country, not only in france.
There is the kkk in the u$a.

So what's the goal of this thread?

(Edited by LOIC at 10:27 pm on Jan. 27, 2003)


You shouldn't ask what,but who?And the answer is stormin moron!!!

Loic,ne te préoccupes pas de lui!!!

[Dan Majerle]

"yellow bastards"
Serious SM you do have racist tendencies.

[canikickit]

By "yellow bastards" I'm sure he meant cowards, not a reference to skin colour. However, I do believe he harbours ill will to people who are foreign to him.

Norm, I don't really know why you would feel that citing examples of individual citizens of the French state signifies that "French" people are racists. The statement it makes is that you are racist. This catagorisation is preposterous.

As LOIC pointed out, there are racists in every country.


Colonial Racism. Yes Norm, I think you will be hard pressed to find someone on this site who is not against colonialism. That article actually looked quite interesting. I didn't have time to read the whole thing so forgive me if I missed out on irrefutable proof that an entire nation and culture of people were racist.


It looks as if things are getting so bad that the National Assembly had to pass legislation to prevent further outbreaks of Jewish violence.

Hold on a minute, Norm. Seeing as how these people are such cowards, where did they ever work up the courage to introduce this legislation? You're full of shit.

The rise of anti-semitism is troubling indeed. You seem to have the idea that anti-Semites are our allies. I thought you had more intelligence.


Loic,ne te préoccupes pas de lui!!!

Inculé lui. My french isn't the best, I hope you get the gist.

[Stormin Norman]

I think it is ironic how I am being called a racist for pointing out a nation's racism.

[Eastside Revolt]

Stormin' Normin': Notice how when you don't have enough American Propoganda on a particular subject that you don't have any arguments to throw back at people.

[El Brujo]

http://www.kkk.com

http://www.kukluxklan.com

http://www.unitedskins.com

http://www.whitesonly.com

http://www.resist.com

Well, It looks like all Amerikans are racists then.

Do you really fail to realise how fuckin ridiculous your arguments are or are you just trying to annoy us and piss us off? First you spew out racist, ultra-nationalist shit out against the French, then you go on about how they "must" be anti-semitic because their against a pro-zionist government's war-mongering campaign and now you find sources that talk about a few French racists, as if there wasn't racism all over the world, to "prove" that the French are a racist people.

And Im not even gonna bother responding about the colonialism thing. All there is to say is that the Amerikan government (since it gained independence), has always been extremely cozy with colonialism and even cozier with neo-colonialism.

[MEXCAN]

Quote: from Stormin Norman on 10:23 pm on Jan. 28, 2003
I think it is ironic how I am being called a racist for pointing out a nation's racism.


I don't know if you remember a thread called "Are the French cowards? "???You said:"Quick answer. Yes, most of the French are cowards. History has shown this to be true time and time again.""".And:"Yes, I know a little about French history and politics. By, assumming you know about my educational background you expose what an idiot you are.

Not only are the French cowards, but they were compliant with the Nazis extermination of the Jews, during WWII. Their current position on the war in Iraq further demonstrates their ability to appease and comply with a Hitlerian threat. By becoming the mouthpiece for Saddam Hussien, they paint themselves as enablers of mass murders, once again."""and:"No, I am not a racist, and I don't wish to insult you for being a Mexican. I will ask you what I would ask any other foreigner. Please take the legal channels if you wish to immigrate to this great nation of ours. """

So what can i say about that???First,your views and comments on the french are idiotic and bigoted!!Second,the fact that you've posted against the french in the past and now start a thread bashing them again,leads me to think that you seriously have something against the french !!??So take your pick,bigot or racist,i really don't care !!!!

[canikickit]

I think it is ironic how I am being called a racist for pointing out a nation's racism.

No, Norm. You have not pointed out a nation's racism. You are mistaken. You have pointed out the racism of certain individuals.

I think El Brujo's post demonstrates your mistake.

I guess you've been studying the thermodynamics a bit too much.

[Stormin Norman]

-Would you offer up the same defense for Nazi Germany? Yeah, it was only a couple hundred people who perpetrated the racist act of exterminating Jews. You can not blaim a hole nation for their racist policies. It wasn't all the Nazis who allowed this kind of environment to persist, it was only Hienrich Himler, Adolf Hitler, and the like who were responsible. I say that's bullshit. Without the consent of the masses, the Nazi party would never have been able to pass such popular legislation.

-The French have passed legislation for the same reason there are billboard ads in Germany advocating tolerance. It's window dressing. The problem is so evident, and persistent that the government has no choice to address the problem and make it appear as if they have the power to stop it. Campaigns for tolerance are merely a sign that the government is loosing the battle against racism. In reality, they are powerless to stop such a turbulent movement. As I have shown racism exists even among the elected officials in France. This is no surprise considering their constituency.

-I am merely applying the same kind of generalization that most of Europeans apply to Americans. Instead of using a baseless accusation like all Americans are fat, I use historical fact about their transparent racism. I don't hear any of you left wingers crying fowl when someone denegrates Americans. I would not be dumb enough to call American bashing racism either. Fact is, there are many races of people in France. The French people constitute a nation not a race, or ethnicity. It is the multi-racial, multi-ethnic make up of their population that the French have had a difficult time dealing with. This fact would refute the claim that all French people are of the same race. I don't know if I have ever heard a more bogus claim than that.

[Stormin Norman]

Stormin' Normin': Notice how when you don't have enough American Propoganda on a particular subject that you don't have any arguments to throw back at people.

What the hell are you talking about?

[Stormin Norman]

Do I think all French people are racist? No. Do I find their racist history, in addition to new developments in France alarming? Yes. Do I find America's racial history deplorable? Yes. Do I think all Americans are racist? No.

If I were crazy like most of you would like to believe, why then is there an entire field of study surrounding French anti-semitism? Go to your library and see how many books you can find on the matter. Here is a good start: French anti-semetism (http://www3.uakron.edu/hfrance/reviews/ryan.html)

In fact, anti-semetism is not just a French problem. The Jews have been the scapegoat for many countries, governments, and political organizations. However, this problem is on the rise in places like France and Germany. It is hard to imagine anti-semetic views getting more prevalent in the Middle East. It is hard to find a single individual coming from that region that doesn't subcribe to that worldview. Sadly enough, there are ultra-rightwingers in the United States whose perspectives are very similar to the Jehadists in how they view religious prophecy and the "Jewish" conspiracy. These sorts of irrational beliefs are extremely dangerous and are harbored by many of the terrorist organizations around the world, including some of the domestic terrorists that the FBI keeps close watch over. To ignore this perspective has the potential for great violence as we have seen in the past. Once again awakening to dangers surrounding this strange phenomenon.

When I get time, I will study the origins of anti-semetism and the world history of a view so many have held and suffered as a result. This subject is so broad that one could write their dissertation on various aspects of the "Jewish question". Perhaps I will choose French antii-semetism when I am considering my PHD work.

[timbaly]

-Would you offer up the same defense for Nazi Germany? Yeah, it was only a couple hundred people who perpetrated the racist act of exterminating Jews. You can not blaim a hole nation for their racist policies. It wasn't all the Nazis who allowed this kind of environment to persist, it was only Hienrich Himler, Adolf Hitler, and the like who were responsible. I say that's bullshit. Without the consent of the masses, the Nazi party would never have been able to pass such popular legislation.

You can't honestly blame those people in Germany. Hitler and the nazis were master propagandaists, they fed off the peoples desperatenss. Fascism always happens out of desperation. Imagine being born and raised in nazi Germany. You'd be taught all sorts of nonsense about the jews. You can't blame someone for their enviorment, they have no choice in the matter.

[Dan Majerle]

Yeah but how about the people who voted for Hitler and their support of the Nazi Party led to its rise to power in Germany. I'm sure if they knew what the outcomes were they would have done it differently but undeniably many people in Germany who voted Nazi were in fact racist, xonophobic and generally disliked foreigners in their country especially at a time when the common man and woman were hiding it increasingly difficult to find work and support their family. They saw it that foreign people who hardly help their situation as they would now be in competition with them. Not everything who voted Hitler or supported him was tricked. How tricked can you be to beat up and murder non-Aryans? It takes a certain amount of self-responsibility too.

[Stormin Norman]

You can't honestly blame those people in Germany. Hitler and the nazis were master propagandaists, they fed off the peoples desperatenss. Fascism always happens out of desperation. Imagine being born and raised in nazi Germany. You'd be taught all sorts of nonsense about the jews. You can't blame someone for their enviorment, they have no choice in the matter.

That's precisely the sort of apologetic attitude I thought I would hear coming from the left. Sorry, but I do blaim Germans for Nazi atrocities. Product of environment, or not, those people allowed for a murderous regime to surface and wipe out a good portion of the Jewish population. It took an elaborate network of cooperation to carry out the segregation, separation, experimentation, and extermination that was seen during Nazi Germany. To blaim only the top officials is ludicrous. The scale at which the Nazis conducted their persecution of the Jews could not have existed without public support and cooperation. Both France and Germany have practiced institutionalized racism. Institutionalized racism can only exist if the population condones such behavior.

[Dan Majerle]

Far out i really need to start editing my posts. LOL. That is just outrageous!

[Stormin Norman]

Huh?

[Dan Majerle]

In reference to all the grammatical and spelling errors in my earlier post on this page. I couldn't even make sense of it!

[Stormin Norman]

I understood that you were also offering excuses for Nazi behavior. It wasn't that hard to assertain the meaning behind your post.

[timbaly]

I don't like the way I wrote my last post, I was in a rush at the time. What I meant to say was something more like this.
imagine being brought up in Hitler Youth, you have no sense of logic and reason, you've been brainwashed into hating people because they are different from you. you can't blame those people for their enviorment, but you can blame the people who actually voted him in. You're right Norm we can't just blame the officials but the maority of the blame must be placed on them.

[Stormin Norman]

imagine being brought up in Hitler Youth, you have no sense of logic and reason, you've been brainwashed into hating people because they are different from you.

You are right, we can not blaim the children for the action of adults. However, as these children develop the reason and logic mentioned by you, they must be held accountanle for their flawed belief system. I am convinced that the Germans are a logical and intelligent people. Most certainly their children would be raised to think. When they become old enough to fully understand the difference between right and wrong, the product of environment defense fails to hold true anymore.

[timbaly]

Those children grow up to be adults, they are raised to be 100% pro-nazi. If you're 100% pro-nazi than you clearly have no logic or reason. If everything around those kids are exposed to during Hitlers time is pro-nazi, how do you expect them to be otherwise? Surely some of them will break from the shackles on their minds, but the majority won't.

You said that they will learn the difference from right and wrong, but in their society right is being a pro-Hitler and wrong is being opposed to Hitler. How do you expect them to be anything short of drones in this society.

[Stormin Norman]

Oh the typical relativist argument that there is no such thing as right and wrong, notions like these are soley the matter of belief. Sorry, but I don't subscribe to such nonsense.

Mass murder is wrong, and I would expect any Nazi born and raised with such a defective worldview to recognize how wrong their activities may be. Even if one was brainwashed into believing it was okay to kill jews, I think the first time somebody looked into the eyes of another human being, while committing murder, any rational person would be overwhelmed by a sick feeling. Afterwards, it would take some time to alleviate the mental unrest, and damaged conscience resulting from such a hideous act. Even if one were to be brainwashed into believing murder was acceptable, the ill feelings and emotions that accompany murder would dictate otherwise.

One thing that you are failing to realize is that the National Socialist took over in 1933, and the war ended in 1945. This twelve year period of Nazi rule hardly supports the kind of indoctrination that you suggest. Sure the Nazi youth program existed, but Germany threw itself into, and lost a world war before the kind generational perspectives could develop into the kind of environment that you suggest existed.

[canikickit]

This whole thread is a big, big joke.

[Stormin Norman]

Quite alright, canikickit, for I don't take potheads like you or rastafari too seriously either. When was the last time you had anything of value to say?

[canikickit]

I think you are a fool, very few people here respect your opinion, yet you continue to post. I think you are a sado-masochist with self esteem issues. Seriously, I really do.

I think the pressure of the upcoming war, and the continuous show of adversion to the war has led to you losing your grasp on reality.


When was the last time you had anything of value to say?

What exactly is this supposed to mean? You started this thread in my honour. No amount of your degrading bullshit will convince me that the things I said to lead you to this further embarassment were not worthwhile.

[timbaly]

Quote: from Stormin Norman on 5:01 pm on Feb. 3, 2003
Oh the typical relativist argument that there is no such thing as right and wrong, notions like these are soley the matter of belief. Sorry, but I don't subscribe to such nonsense.

Mass murder is wrong, and I would expect any Nazi born and raised with such a defective worldview to recognize how wrong their activities may be. Even if one was brainwashed into believing it was okay to kill jews, I think the first time somebody looked into the eyes of another human being, while committing murder, any rational person would be overwhelmed by a sick feeling. Afterwards, it would take some time to alleviate the mental unrest, and damaged conscience resulting from such a hideous act. Even if one were to be brainwashed into believing murder was acceptable, the ill feelings and emotions that accompany murder would dictate otherwise.

One thing that you are failing to realize is that the National Socialist took over in 1933, and the war ended in 1945. This twelve year period of Nazi rule hardly supports the kind of indoctrination that you suggest. Sure the Nazi youth program existed, but Germany threw itself into, and lost a world war before the kind generational perspectives could develop into the kind of environment that you suggest existed.


You definetly have a good point, but what you posted is probaly just as true as what I posted. Both situations definetly exisited. The problem is even if you know mass murder is wrong, when you are so used to it and it occurs regulary your initial opinion seems to change. This is especially true when you have no power to stop it. People in Israel often see suicide bombings as simply ust something to be accepted, a similar attitude could have been found in nazi Germany.

[Stormin Norman]

That is just one of the many differences between you and I, canIkickit. You place great importance on what others think of you, but I do not care for the acceptance of those who are less than me. Therefore, my collection of friends remains low in number, for I can maintain a quality pool that way. You offer your respect to anyone who abides by your particular groupthink, but I offer my respect to those who have earned it. We shall see who gets further in life, the man with many shallow acquintances, or the man with complex networks of respectable individuals who will work in his favor. The answer is clearly stated by the above premises.

Just to be clear, because I know you don't understand half of my statements (inherent in your ignorance); I could give a fuck what you think of me.

[canikickit]

No, you are speculating, I based my speculation on the fact that you spend some time here where everyone hates you, you based your speculation on the fact that you were insulted and felt the need to degrade me. You are wrong about me.

[Stormin Norman]

Take a vote. I am sure there are people here who do not share your hatred for me, but as stated before, I do not care if everyone does hate me. Your hatred for me only fuels my fire.

As for the speculation, I don't think my assumptions about you even come close to the broad statements you have made about my character. I based my assumption on how I have seen you behave, and the fact that you would try to discourage me by claiming "everyone hates" me. If you were not the type of person that I claim you are, you would not have assumed that something you, yourself, consider to be important would insult me.

Considering the source of the hatred, I am honored. I would be very disappointed if I were held in high esteem by such a dim wit.

(Edited by Stormin Norman at 6:49 pm on Feb. 6, 2003)

[Eastside Revolt]

Frankly Stormin' Normin', I don't hate you, but I think you have a very appropriate avatar. I also think you're very lame, and that you should be able to spend a week in the shoes of a poor single woman in you're country. You also need to spend less time at the computer. I'll bet you're a real fat-ass.

[canikickit]

As I stated my speculation was based on how you behave. Whether everyone hates you or not is not an issue, the fact is you are greatly disliked, and your opinions constanly disagreed with.

There is no need to debate about whether or not your opinion is actually wrong, or whether the hate is ill-founded or not, the fact remains that you are not wanted here.

The reasons I brought up your popularilty are quite obvious and do not reflect upon me, it just shows that you feel the need to discuss things with people you dislike. Which is strange. I like talking to friends, that does not mean I am desperate for shallow relationships.

As I pointed out, in one of the posts which you choose to ignore or disregard, it is strange that you are so intimidated by something or someone who you put on the level of faeces.

Take a vote on what? A strange suggestion. You are a strange person.

[Stormin Norman]

Whether everyone hates you or not is not an issue, the fact is you are greatly disliked, and your opinions constanly disagreed with.

You made it the issue, pal. Then you go on to directly contradict yourself by saying:


The reasons I brought up your popularilty are quite obvious and do not reflect upon me, it just shows that you feel the need to discuss things with people you dislike. Which is strange. I like talking to friends, that does not mean I am desperate for shallow relationships.

again making it the issue.


You also say that, "there is no need to debate about whether or not your opinion is actually wrong, or whether the hate is ill-founded or not, the fact remains that you are not wanted here." This is what I consider to be the heart of the issue. You do not like my opinions, and lack the ability to criticize them in a logical and coherent manner. Therefore, you would like to distract me with personal insults.

Fact remains, when I joined this board I was willing to debate the issues openly and honestly, as I still am, but with people who warrant such civilized conversation. Unfortunately, people who share your low IQ didn't like my opinions, which contradicted theirs. In addition, they didn't like the strong manner in which I presented my case. Therefore, they sought to reduce me by resorting to the ad hominem attack. This is when I morphed into the caustic personality that you recognize now.

I easily learned how to identify those who are valid participants in conversations, and those who present ideas with no substantial value. I am attacked most often by those who fit into the latter classification. I suggest that this is the real reason for your hatred of me. Quite frankly, I no longer wish to discuss this matter with you, because this is a perfect example of the type of attack I often encounter by those who have nothing to say.

You claim to speak for everyone on this board, without providing anything to support your argument, once again. This is a characteristic of you that I have grown to expect. If what you are saying is true, back it up by quoting those who have professed their hate for me, or shut your trap. Be advised, any further attacks, by someone who has proven to be the type of vermin I despise, will be ignored. That is, unless you can get other people to support their claim, as I would like to clear the air with anyone too cowardly to insult me in person. At that point, I can carry this conversation over with them.

[Stormin Norman]

Double post.

(Edited by Stormin Norman at 10:05 pm on Feb. 5, 2003)

[canikickit]

You should at least try and keep your level of ridiculousness at a low. I understand it can be quite trying.


You do not like my opinions, and lack the ability to criticize them in a logical and coherent manner. Therefore, you would like to distract me with personal insults

No, Norm, I brought up points demonstrating that your sweeping comments about French people were racism.

I do not claim to speak for the entire board.

You constanly skirt the issues and engage in personal attacks.

More later. Reappraise your brain.

[James]

SM; what do you do for a living?

[canikickit]

I do not claim to speak for everyone on the board, I think it is quite obvious to all that you are generally disliked.


Let's cast our minds back, Norm. I will explain why this thread is such a joke.

It all began when you you unneccessarily included that Einstein was a foreigner in your criticism of the man.

I reacted with a joke, based on your quickness to specify that people were foreign by calling you a Nazi.

You reacted badly and without comprehension to this joke (understandably) and when I pointed out that your criticism of people for lacking the understanding of your humour (i.e. jokes at the expense of French people), you set about trying to "prove" that French people were cowards.

I, being of sound mind and body, do not agree with such sweeping generalisations, and pointed out that what you were saying could easily be construed as racism.

You completely ignored this fact, and decided to attack the French people for being racist. This is what is funny about this thread Norm. For no reason, other than to distract attention from your own xenophobia, you attack the French. That's just the premise of this thread, not the actual content.

As for the content, well, I addressed that in my first reply to this thread.


You made it the issue, pal. Then you go on to directly contradict yourself by saying:

NO! Norm, I am not making it the issue. You do not understand the point I am making.

It is not whether people hate you, it is not your popularity, it is not my popularity, it is the fact that you discuss things with people who you constantly degrade, and who constantly degrade you. I didn't contradict myself.

[Stormin Norman]

SM; what do you do for a living?

I am a social worker. Hah!

[Old Friend]

Here you go Kapitan!