Personal Attacks and Flaming - Why am Only I Scrutinized?

[Capitalist Imperial]

I've seen many recent comments to the effect of me not being a legitimate debater and that all I do is sling insults at the left. Such comments even include propositions to boycott. Many posts have also referred tome as "ignorant".

However, most of these comments are comming from people who have much less time on this board than me, and are just as guilty of inflammatory and ignorant remarks in the 1st place!


Anyone who has been on this board for a good amount of time knows that I am highly capable of legitimate debate based on fact, logic and philosophy. Not only that, but my record in these archives also supports it.

I am sorry that a double-standard exists among leftists here, in which it is OK to flame me,but I cannot respond in kind without fear of scrutiny.

Now, I am far from beyond reproach, and admit sometimes I can be provacative, but no more than what is typical for the average board member.

So, for those of you who want to boycott me, your loss, I really don't care.

But for those of you who want to continue a dialogue with me, just remember that I will be as civil in my words and attitude as you are with yours.

[James]

CI, i still love you. And thats all that matters... yes?

[MEXCAN]

I don't agree with the ban at all.But you have to understand something,some of your responses did very much infuriate me.Some of your comments border on bigotry.And i ask myself,is he really like that?Or does he fell so strongly about his views that he can't see the harm in his rhetoric ?

[Capitalist Imperial]

Quote: from MEXCAN on 7:59 pm on Jan. 24, 2003
I don't agree with the ban at all.But you have to understand something,some of your responses did very much infuriate me.Some of your comments border on bigotry.And i ask myself,is he really like that?Or does he fell so strongly about his views that he can't see the harm in his rhetoric ?

For the record:

I am not a racist

I am not a bigot

I try to live my life as a good American, adhering to the principles of equal rights and the constitution.

Perhaps sometimes my humor or faceteousness goes to far in my verbage.

[commie kg]

CI, you are not the only one targeted.

Just a few threads down there is a thread entitled "The ignorant AK-47". The thread was started by you.
I'd consider that a personal attack.

Now, I do think that some people have taken some pretty unfair shots at you, but you have said some pretty bad stuff too. I don't necccessarily think that you meant some of it, and alot of the criticism has not been justified.
For the record, even though I don't agree with your political viewpoints, I stand against the boycott. People of all ideologies should be able to have a say in this forum. Just try not to get carried away and say something dumb. ;)

[MEXCAN]

What's more,you must understand that your painting of the US is lacking.People from the goverment itself know and say that the US has wronged many nations.So why would you keep on saying that the US is the best and that it only fights for its freedom ??

[Capitalist Imperial]

Quote: from commie kg on 8:14 pm on Jan. 24, 2003
CI, you are not the only one targeted.

Just a few threads down there is a thread entitled "The ignorant AK-47". The thread was started by you.
I'd consider that a personal attack.

Now, I do think that some people have taken some pretty unfair shots at you, but you have said some pretty bad stuff too. I don't necccessarily think that you meant some of it, and alot of the criticism has not been justified.
For the record, even though I don't agree with your political viewpoints, I stand against the boycott. People of all ideologies should be able to have a say in this forum. Just try not to get carried away and say something dumb. ;)


commie kg, I agree 100% with what you said.

[Mazdak]

CI, the fact that non one here actually responds with anything but flames just shows the hypocrisy. You flame no more than anyone else here. I am only saying this because there is little or no debate here. Last time i checked, all it was was a capitalist presenting an argument and being told to fuck off. And if he responds calling the person ignorant he is the flamer.

Note, i am not capitalist, nor do i defend what he stands for.

[James]

i kind of agree with mazzy

[Capitalist Imperial]

Thanks Mazdak.

This is why I've always held the stalinists in higher regard above the liberals.

[MEXCAN]

:angry: And how do you regard the Nazis ???

[Capitalist Imperial]

Quote: from MEXCAN on 8:16 pm on Jan. 24, 2003
What's more,you must understand that your painting of the US is lacking.People from the goverment itself know and say that the US has wronged many nations.So why would you keep on saying that the US is the best and that it only fights for its freedom ??


I'm sorry, Mexcan, but in that respect I will never apologize for American success, or American action, or American sovereignty even if it is perceived by some as unjust.

Nothing personal.

BTW, in reality I overall appreciate Canada and Mexico as My North American neighbors.

Having lived in both Alaska and southern California, I have come to appreciate both of them in some respects.

[James]

ok, i think this issue has got "out of hand".

This is an online board, for discussing che really... and left wing politics. And to a lesser extent, debate between the left and right.
Why can't we keep it as simple opinion? Simple opinions, there really is NO NEED to get as personal as alot of you guys and gals do. It;
1. Reduces the level and quality of debate
2. Creats animosity within the board, which seeps through to all threads.
3. has a "dumbing down" affect across the board


This is an area that needs addressing.

Ok, the "left" often argues that;
1. this is a leftist board for leftists. There are MILLIONS of right wing boards. This should be a leftist only.
2. alot of these right wing individuals give off the impression that they are simply here to piss other members off

the right will argue;
1. We are meant to be for democracy, yet restrict their access
2. We resort to petty insults instead of addressing the issues raised in their often detailed posts

Now, in my opinion YES, this is a leftist board for leftists. There are countless places that people can go to, to debate left/right politics. Some individuals do seem to be just out to piss the other party off; this is on both sides.

Why doesn't everyone just try to be more understanding? there is really no need to get as worked up and personal as alot of you members do.

Now please, if you arn't going to play nice, you won't play at all. Do you all understand what i'm saying?

(Edited by James at 9:57 pm on Jan. 24, 2003)

[mentalbunny]

May I say briefly, that on the particular thread that I said I was going to "boycott" CI's posts, he had been making particularly stupid comments with no fact and no morals, which makes a huge difference, as socialism is often connected with morality and what is best for people, what is fair and what is good, whereas capitalism is all for the individual trying to gain as much for him/herself as possible.

I will not call names, but I do not consider ignoring someone's posts if they contain no intelligence as name calling, insulting, or flaming. I was saying "boycott" to stop people from banning you or insulting you.

[Mazdak]

Socialist morality? That would not be defined as "fair and good." that is an opinion. Socialism is like utilitarianism(spelling). The most good for the most people in the aspect of morality. boycotting posts is a foolish idea, as it does not solve anything. New members will respond to the posts without realizing they are supposed to be "boycotting" them.

not to mention, do you realize how ridiculous that sounds? "boycotting" posts?! This isnt the civil rights movement here. This is just a message board. You all get worked up over nothing.

as it is, the cappies and a few of mine are stuck either barred from the site, or stuck in this shithole. you all have chit chat to post all your bullshit. Don't complain. You created the mess.

[synthesis]

I don't hate you, CI.

I don't even really dislike you.

I just think you're a stubborn idiot. Don't take that too personally.

The fact that you completely refuse to acknowledge that the United States could have ever possibly do something wrong and is completely infallible in its decisions is what makes me want to avoid debating with you and sort of keeps me from respecting you, too.

This isn't a debate board - there are lots of places you can go to do that. Plenty of people here don't even want this particular debate forum to exist. It exists because we can't keep you out, and this saves us time and energy.

This is a community board. Sorry you're not welcome, but it's obvious that you have no intention of learning from us or even really showing that your ideology is correct, merely to achieve a feeling of dominance by shouting louder than we do.

[Umoja]

CI, it's just some of the things you say, I could imagine a person actually saying. Like you are the definition of a Capitalist all to well.

[ID2002]

CI,
I do not see level with your political ideology. I do not respect the Bush administration and the party he represents, and I forsee much trouble ahead. Terrorism is the lasting face you will see, if the US attacks Iraq.

Your national pride will end up killing you in the end. Thats something I don't want to see. I do not want another Sept 11. Learn from your mistakes.

[suffianr]

Nice try with the PR campaign, CI, but I ain't buying it, not for a minute... ;)

[Dhul Fiqar]

It's simple:

You are a particularly revolting specimen of all that we consider wrong with humanity. A poster-boy for filth, depravity and lack of compassion (so to speak).

I hope I cleared that up for you.

--- G.

[Capitalist Imperial]

I appreciate every answer in this thread, whether constructive or inflammatory. Your input is appreciated.

[Capitalist Imperial]

I appreciate every answer in this thread, whether constructive or inflammatory. Your input is appreciated.

[RedComrade]

I do not mind an insult here and there but what has both enraged and infuriated me is when you or your cronies make stereotypes that are untrue and defammatory. When debating with both you and Norm you two have tried to brand me with this stereotype of a weak, cowardly, unpopular, prison ***** persona which is extremely upsetting to me because it couldnt be farther from the truth. You have also tried to suggest that because I am angered with being stereotyped youve struck a nerve and your broad generalizations were true in my case they are not and i stand by my statement to provide multiple photographs confirming in Norm's case that I can and do get chicks and in yours that I am not a granola eating hippy who is old and was beat up in high school. However both of you apologized so I am not upset at all that stereotyping bullshit though more than name calling or stubborn ignorance is what pisses me off.

[Capitalist Imperial]

Quote: from RedComrade on 6:52 pm on Jan. 25, 2003
I do not mind an insult here and there but what has both enraged and infuriated me is when you or your cronies make stereotypes that are untrue and defammatory. When debating with both you and Norm you two have tried to brand me with this stereotype of a weak, cowardly, unpopular, prison ***** persona which is extremely upsetting to me because it couldnt be farther from the truth. You have also tried to suggest that because I am angered with being stereotyped youve struck a nerve and your broad generalizations were true in my case they are not and i stand by my statement to provide multiple photographs confirming in Norm's case that I can and do get chicks and in yours that I am not a granola eating hippy who is old and was beat up in high school. However both of you apologized so I am not upset at all that stereotyping bullshit though more than name calling or stubborn ignorance is what pisses me off.


I agree. Did you read my last post to you after our hostilitues escalated? I think we both can concede that we were stereotyping, assuming, and insulting, when in actuality we are more alike than we realized (socially, not politically).

[RedComrade]

Yupp man I read it its cool like I said we come from all stripes on the left and that goes on the right to i really. There is no need for either of us to categorize the other because of political affiliations I have met some preety cool people who were right wing. I myself come from extremely cool but unfortunately preety conservative economically parents. Inside and outside of school I am friends with a couple conservatives (although at my age most ppl are preety apolitical) and when it comes to the crew for the most part they are just as cool as anyone from the left. I agree theres no need for labeling or hatred regarding the oposing viewpoint, even though i think your full of shit on almost everything involving foreign and domestic policy to the point were some of the stuff you say is down right nauseating/infuriating.

[suffianr]

CI, looks like you've outdone yourself this time! Master Ogilvy would have been proud...

A genuine maskirovka, comrades, if there ever was one...

[Capitalist Imperial]

Quote: from suffianr on 1:33 am on Jan. 26, 2003
CI, looks like you've outdone yourself this time! Master Ogilvy would have been proud...

A genuine maskirovka, comrades, if there ever was one...

would one of you communists please translate "maskirovka" for me please?

[commie kg]

I think it means "the masked"

[canikickit]

Quote: from DyerMaker on 5:29 am on Jan. 25, 2003
I don't hate you, CI.

I don't even really dislike you.

I just think you're a stubborn idiot. Don't take that too personally.

The fact that you completely refuse to acknowledge that the United States could have ever possibly do something wrong and is completely infallible in its decisions is what makes me want to avoid debating with you and sort of keeps me from respecting you, too.

This isn't a debate board - there are lots of places you can go to do that. Plenty of people here don't even want this particular debate forum to exist. It exists because we can't keep you out, and this saves us time and energy.

This is a community board. Sorry you're not welcome, but it's obvious that you have no intention of learning from us or even really showing that your ideology is correct, merely to achieve a feeling of dominance by shouting louder than we do.



Same here.

[canikickit]

CI, I honestly believe that you are one of the worst people for flaming. You are definitely not the only one, I am probably equally guilty.

However I think you often insult or flame people who do not particularily deserve it, and write off opinions with "typical communist filth" or whatever.

I think you do take your nationalism too far. Like you said in the first page, you respect Mexico and Canada as your nieghbours. I think you should behave, at least a bit, more like that. Nobody likes people with extreme prejudices, which is how you come across with your pro-US sentiments. You strongly present the appearance of being anti-everywhere else, rather than pro-US, which is obviously a dispicable trait.

Obviously you feel many present the appeance of being anti-US so your prejudices/bigotry are reactionary, to an extent.

[suffianr]

Not a Tom Clancy fan, eh, CI?

That's odd, because I always thought that you got your obscene pseudo-military-techno-babble-jargon-crap about ICBM's and cruise missles from reading one too many editions of Clancy's Ops Center, a paean to the typical God Bless America patriotism that clutters all of your posts...

Anyway, the term maskirovka was burrowed from Red Storm Rising, and basically means deception, which is exactly what I think of your latest attempt trying to understand why people like to "flame" you.

It's an allegory to a significant chapter in the book. You should be proud of yourself; I could've equated you with a Grima Wormtongue, but hey, you're much less of an eloquent conversationist...or should I say, propagandist? :)


I appreciate every answer in this thread, whether constructive or inflammatory. Your input is appreciated.

Did you come up with that yourself, or have you been watching some old footage of Nixon interviews? ;)

Seriously, the idea that you suddenly wish to understand why a bunch of "commie pukes" love to insult your intelligence is just plain unbelievable...

It was a good try, anyway...Better luck next time, CI!

[Michael De Panama]

Quote: from canikickit on 8:19 pm on Jan. 27, 2003
CI, I honestly believe that you are one of the worst people for flaming. You are definitely not the only one, I am probably equally guilty.

However I think you often insult or flame people who do not particularily deserve it, and write off opinions with "typical communist filth" or whatever.

I think you do take your nationalism too far. Like you said in the first page, you respect Mexico and Canada as your nieghbours. I think you should behave, at least a bit, more like that. Nobody likes people with extreme prejudices, which is how you come across with your pro-US sentiments. You strongly present the appearance of being anti-everywhere else, rather than pro-US, which is obviously a dispicable trait.

Obviously you feel many present the appeance of being anti-US so your prejudices/bigotry are reactionary, to an extent.

I totally agree with you. But I actually enjoy the style that Capitalist Imperial flames. He brings back the whole Red Scare/Joe McCarthy vibe to everything. I'm not going to cry about being called commie filth. I would just be annoyed if that was the only thing CI had to say, and lately CI seems like he's been getting better about things.

And I'm also going to have to say that I also don't "hate" Capitalist Imperial. There's a difference between hating Capitalist Imperial, and hating the politics he supports. There's two seperate entities. I have no reason to hate Capitalist Imperial.

[Blibblob]

it seems no one hates him...

I guess ill give him some reason for this thread to be started in the first place, i hate you.

[Michael De Panama]

I'm all about the love.

[Non-Sectarian Bastard!]

Quote: from Capitalist Imperial on 8:07 pm on Jan. 24, 2003

Quote: from MEXCAN on 7:59 pm on Jan. 24, 2003
I don't agree with the ban at all.But you have to understand something,some of your responses did very much infuriate me.Some of your comments border on bigotry.And i ask myself,is he really like that?Or does he fell so strongly about his views that he can't see the harm in his rhetoric ?

For the record:

I am not a racist

I am not a bigot

I try to live my life as a good American, adhering to the principles of equal rights and the constitution.

Perhaps sometimes my humor or faceteousness goes to far in my verbage.


You don't see yourself as a racist ,but still you see the US as a superior nation. If you say "superior nation", I am thinking that you mean "superior" people, "good" people. What strongly suggests racism.

[Blibblob]

hehe

Obviously CI cant insult himself to try an make himself better, so lets continue with the insulting with him, see if he might listen, and improve his life and his views.

(as in views, they dont have to be our kind of views, just views with background, and support, and something worth fighting for)

(Edited by Blibblob at 11:53 am on Jan. 30, 2003)

[Michael De Panama]

To Capitalist Imperial's defense, the US is not a "race", but rather a nation filled with people of many different races oppressing workers all around the world. It's not racism. It's extreme nationalism. Don't get your Adolf Hitler qualities mixed up there.

And yes, it is Adolf Hitler-like.

[Blibblob]

i defend CI a lot. He never notices it though. His weak one sided views of the US, i strengthen those, but insults come too. Theres nothing wrong with insults, they are just used to help impove yourself.