Hip Hop died [Archive]

Psy

21st July 2008, 03:26

So there has been much drama in the Hip Hop community as it comes to terms with the effects commercialization (in other words capitalism) has had on the scene.

"I'm the type to extort it
I give a fuck about the culture
I just like making money off it"

and

"we make it and they come steal it"

in Skillz Hip Hop Died (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSSevcHbiRw) kinda sums up the effect capitalism has on music.

Psy

23rd July 2008, 19:34

No one has any comments on hip hop culture has been commoditized to the point the industry can't suppress talk of Hip Hop dying coming from the Hip Hop community as the regression of mainstream Hip Hop is a open secret?

Nothing Human Is Alien

23rd July 2008, 20:00

That's pretty much been the case with any sort of art that has emerged and achieved any kind of popularity under capitalism.

Lector Malibu

23rd July 2008, 20:14

The above.

You know I remember in the 80's when rap exploded. It was not mainstream like hip hop , it was more underground I guess. There where rappers back than that I don't think the industry will see again. And the early days of rap was kind like the news. You could put in a tape and find out what was really going on. Like Punk at one time. I never really connected the same way with rap after it started to shift and become different.

Yes Hip Hop and rap in general did go the way of commercialism and it has lost it's original focus I feel. however one thing I have noticed is there are rappers that are emerging that aren't about that, and are trying to reclaim what it once was.

It's dead in that sense I guess.

Psy

23rd July 2008, 21:06

The above.

You know I remember in the 80's when rap exploded. It was not mainstream like hip hop, it was more underground I guess.

Just thought I point out that rap is apart of Hip Hop (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hip_hop), as Hip Hop is considered a subculture not just a genre, thus why the rebirth of graffiti art is also considered part of Hip Hop (for obvious reasons capitalists haven't touched graffiti other trying to stop it).

Comrade Rage

23rd July 2008, 21:33

Hip hop has probably been dead for a couple of years now. Capitalism has totally ruined it, and as NHIA said, capitalism has always corrupted any art form it can.

Lector Malibu

23rd July 2008, 22:24

Just thought I point out that rap is apart of Hip Hop (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hip_hop), as Hip Hop is considered a subculture not just a genre, thus why the rebirth of graffiti art is also considered part of Hip Hop (for obvious reasons capitalists
haven't touched graffiti other trying to stop it).

I'm well aware of that. I thought you were speaking more towards the rap element of hip hop. Witch in my eyes is where we see the biggest change. Graffiti and all that has been around , granted pumas ,Adidas and track suits went out lol but know they are coming back in different expressions.

Graffiti is getting big again though. Stencillings bad ass!

chimx

23rd July 2008, 22:26

LpocrqvP2Yg

Psy

23rd July 2008, 22:38

I'm well aware of that. I thought you were speaking more towards the rap element of hip hop.

I mostly was.

Witch in my eyes is where we see the biggest change. Graffiti and all that has been around , granted pumas ,Adidas and track suits went out lol but know they are coming back in different expressions.

Remember Grandmaster Flash & The Furious Five in The Message (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3kRuJhIVIo) fashion trends do change :cool:

Lector Malibu

23rd July 2008, 22:56

I mostly was.

Actually I re read my first post and that did not make senses at all:lol:
I was distracted earlier today apologies:)

Remember Grandmaster Flash & The Furious Five in The Message (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3kRuJhIVIo) fashion trends do change :cool:

Yup! :lol: Flash was good though. Best dressed rappers ever where Run D MC. They where later as you know. They were just cool though

I hear you though you had this great subculture that alot of us saw emerge. And yes the capitalist jumped on it and destroyed it in alot of ways. Not only did rap change from more underground to mainstream. It lost it's focus of culture and the news of what was really going on.

Lector Malibu

23rd July 2008, 23:01

Chimx no Soulja Boy!

Pirate Utopian

23rd July 2008, 23:13

Best dressed rappers ever where Run DMC.
No way!, nobody knocks the Flavor Flav clock!
http://www.aolcdn.com/ch_bv/flavor-flav-newswire-400a111606.jpg

Lector Malibu

23rd July 2008, 23:16

No way!, nobody knocks the Flavor Flav clock!
http://www.aolcdn.com/ch_bv/flavor-flav-newswire-400a111606.jpg

Wrong!! Flave was the best dancer , Actually PE was probably one of the greatest rap bands ever .

No one's got anything on flaves original flavor :lol:

communard resolution

24th July 2008, 00:10

You're using the wrong parameters. Hip hop has never been opposed to making money or being "commercial". That's because hip hop is not a middle class fantasy like e.g. punk.

Pirate Utopian

24th July 2008, 00:16

'tis true. It wasnt like Big Daddy Kane or Rakim were anti-capitalists.

It is however true that the music industry did try to make hiphop more accessible and mainstream.

Psy

24th July 2008, 00:44

You're using the wrong parameters. Hip hop has never been opposed to making money or being "commercial". That's because hip hop is not a middle class fantasy like e.g. punk.
While true it was born out of the boredom of poor urban minorities (who's poverty didn't give them much entertainment options with capitalism) , block parties in public space with illegal hook ups to the cities electricity (kinda mini Woodstocks were they just occupied public space).

The rebirth of graffiti side actually is funny in a 1984 documentary about graffiti in NYC, subway workers were talking about all the overtime graffiti artists was generating as they repainted subway cars that were graffitied again before they even re-entered service :)

Hit The North

24th July 2008, 01:25

It is however true that the music industry did try to make hiphop more accessible and mainstream. Nah, it was independent labels like Def Jam and Death Row who went all out to broaden the appeal of hip hop.

chimx

24th July 2008, 01:45

You're using the wrong parameters. Hip hop has never been opposed to making money or being "commercial". That's because hip hop is not a middle class fantasy like e.g. punk.

That doesn't mean hiphop isn't dead. With the growth of file sharing, record labels are investing more money into one-hit wonders that are cheap to produce and cheap to pay. Soulja Boy is actually a great example. He is not a lyricist. If you listen to the song, the verse and chorus are practically the same thing. This is what labels are pumping out right now, because people will still buy it for their cellphone ringers and dance to it at clubs. Because of that they are not investing money into rappers that are lyrically skilled, and experiement in the genre. You won't see a new wu-tang clan in the next 10 years, for example.

It's similar to what is happening in hollywood. They are pumping out more and more cheap comedy movies with unknown actors because they are cheap to make, and usually turn a small profit. It is a more assured way to make a buck rather than invest lots and lots of money into a big production and have it not make that investment back.

Lamanov

24th July 2008, 03:02

Wrong!! Flave was the best dancer , Actually PE was probably one of the greatest rap bands ever.

And now he's hosting some trash pseudo-sexual MTV show.

Bilan

24th July 2008, 04:54

Hip Hop, like all art under capitalism, can't die because it cannot live.

professorchaos

24th July 2008, 05:33

In every art form, there has always been shitty, commodified mainstream forms and good, underground, somewhat more esoteric forms. Such is the case with modern hip-hop. It is not a dead art. There are still great albums coming out all the time. Not to say that popularity and quality are mutually exclusive.

Lector Malibu

24th July 2008, 08:21

And now he's hosting some trash pseudo-sexual MTV show.

I'm not defending Flavor Flav. He has gone down hill witch is ironic because his whole image concerning the clock was supposed to be symbolic of where the young black community was heading. The clock represented time running out. And in alot of ways he became that. Never the less Chuck D and Flavor Flav were and amazing force in the world of rap. And It's nice to see Chuck still putting tracks out. I maintain Public Enemy was one of the top rap groups of all time.

I remember this summer :lol:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CuTi9UZtPbw

RHIZOMES

24th July 2008, 08:40

communard resolution

24th July 2008, 13:26

I maintain Public Enemy was one of the top rap groups of all time.

To my ears, the best.

Lector Malibu

24th July 2008, 13:29

To my ears, the best.

You're right Termintor X was insane. There are some other's though that were really good as well though. Of course thats all top secret info :lol::lol:

Lector Malibu

24th July 2008, 18:29

Bam! What Now? :lol:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WA-zaE6aevs

communard resolution

24th July 2008, 18:51

Bam! What Now?

Yeah, they were really really good too. But Public Enemy a) had better lyrics (imho) and b) make me want to dance more!

Lector Malibu

24th July 2008, 18:55

Yeah, they were really really good too. But Public Enemy a) had better lyrics (imho) and b) make me want to dance more!

Oh PE was much better . RUN D MC could easily hold it's own compared to alot of other musicians at the time though. Defiantly worth a mention.

These guys get a lifetime achievement mention defiantly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDS83yrM30Y&feature=related

Psy

24th July 2008, 22:22

Yeah, they were really really good too. But Public Enemy a) had better lyrics (imho) and b) make me want to dance more!
No love for The Coup?

The Coup - Underdogs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHiKb07JLJI)

Pirate Utopian

24th July 2008, 22:50

The Coup's great although I think their last album despite the good lyrics didnt have good beats like it did on Genocide & Juice or Kill My Landlord.

But to get back to the old school.
Run DMC was cool and all but I was never really impressed by their lyrics.

RQAssqqYQ-E
Now BDP had some great lyrics.

Lector Malibu

24th July 2008, 22:55

Now BDP had some great lyrics.

KRS1 was being saved ! thanks alot:lol:

chimx

25th July 2008, 03:43

The Coup is awful. The only people that like them like them because they are Maoists, not because they are talented (though some might convince themselves they are talented because they are commies).

Bilan

25th July 2008, 05:28

The Coup's lyrics are amazing. And their beats are funky as.

chimx

25th July 2008, 06:09

There have been scientific studies that have proven that notion to be false I'm afraid.

RHIZOMES

25th July 2008, 08:01

The Coup's great although I think their last album despite the good lyrics didnt have good beats like it did on Genocide & Juice or Kill My Landlord.

Finally! Someone that recognizes their first two albums are vasty superior.

I've been digging these guys a lot lately, ONYX, the most hardcore rap group ever:

http://nz.youtube.com/watch?v=WzxREVm91pQ
http://nz.youtube.com/watch?v=eT5Wb13DiWg

The first one has a music video, but it's censored and the uncensored version is vastly superior.

professorchaos

27th July 2008, 00:16

A challenger emerges...
9z11Dqw7mK0
Btw, I would love the Coup even if I didn't know they were commies.

RHIZOMES

28th July 2008, 06:30

A Tribe Called Quest are awesome. :3

How about Ice-T?

nYDQqotUGOQ

professorchaos

29th July 2008, 05:22

I see your Ice-T and raise you Nasty Nas
_-_IFAt8ka0

RHIZOMES

29th July 2008, 06:51

nas is one of my favourite rappers. He rocks hard.

However, I see your Nas and raise you Wu-tang.

zuA5dDm0f34

Rex0230

31st July 2008, 12:47

I've been digging these guys a lot lately, ONYX, the most [I]hardcore[/

Atak of da Bal-Hedz!!!:thumbup:

The most hardcore group ever! Also M.O.P... How about some hardcore!?

shuuk

2nd August 2008, 03:45

I would say hip hop is more of a new age of rap and i belive rap died around the late 90's to about 2003 after that rap pretty much went down the shitter and gave way to hip hop R&B. Just my opinion though.

professorchaos

2nd August 2008, 07:52

nas is one of my favourite rappers. He rocks hard.

However, I see your Nas and raise you Wu-tang.

zuA5dDm0f34
I fold.

mykittyhasaboner

3rd August 2008, 02:12

i like this band a lot. their called Flobots and the song is Stand Up. its hip-hop, blended with classical styling. ive heard of them recently, and went to their show a few days ago. unique acts like this pretty much convince me that hip-hop is not dead.:thumbup1:
http://www.myspace.com/flobots

comrade stalin guevara

3rd August 2008, 02:16

Hip hop aint dead,
Immortal tech,
nas,
bone thugs,
common,
wu tang to nurmerous to mention,
then theres this mean new revolutionary rapper called ezeast....

oh thats me:cool:

Rex0230

6th August 2008, 22:27

I thought that hip hop was dead 'till I've heard some dope songs that came out this year... For example: Rakim got a new joint Rakim - It's Nothing/Hip-Hop, Craig G and Marley Marl droped an album, I got introduced to Illa Ghee possibly the best underground cat in the game, and the best song this year, without a doubt, is Cormega - Fresh featuring hip hop legends: Big Daddy Kane, KRS-One, PMD, Grand Puba and DJ Red Alert... If you haven't checked it out, do so... Highly recommended!!! :thumbup:

RHIZOMES

13th August 2008, 07:27

WEadMF8pGXk

Louis Pio

14th August 2008, 02:33

Of course Hip Hop's not dead, plenty of good music out there and alot of crappy like in all genres. You only get the impression is dead if you listen to MTV and crap radio.
Which no self respecting leftist would of course, which leaves a question: Why the fuck does the starter of this thread waste time on shit like that?

chimx

14th August 2008, 05:05

Jedi Mind Tricks are insanely talented. When people ask me who does the best beats in hip hop, I tell them hands down Stoup from JMT. He's pretty well respected in hiphop circles.

7r0KpWMNxnM

I also got into Outerspace through JMT:

yUqnNY_invw

Politix

14th August 2008, 06:30

Bakunist

15th August 2008, 12:16

Thanks for the Jedi Mind chimx, some of the most talented musicians alive.
Anyone heard Kweli's new album? KRS-1 (R.I.P.) is on a track too.
"Dirt dog done blew up tha spot."
Binary Star is another good new artist.

chimx

15th August 2008, 17:24

Thanks for the Jedi Mind chimx, some of the most talented musicians alive.

Word. Unfortunately Jedi Mind are some of the most homophobic guys in hiphop also... :/

Lector Malibu

15th August 2008, 17:52

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HzeZhCt5PVA

I'm still all about Ice Cubes newer single.

communard resolution

16th August 2008, 13:14

I've got Immortal Technique's first album, and even though I think some lyrics are really good, others appear to be vaguely homophobic and promoting traditional family values. Or am I mishearing something?