Cowboy hats and SS uniforms

[jake williams]

I'm not sure whether this goes in history or politics. Politics I guess because it relates to how history pertains to current events and understanding.

I just posted this on the Wikipedia talk page for "cowboy":

"It certainly appears that people closely related to the "cowboy" stereotype - frontier ranchers and the like - were on the vanguard of the genocide program (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_history_of_American_indigenous_peoples# Genocide_debate) it took to cleanse the North American continent of its native population. (This appearance is based on the knowledge that it was done, and the consequent knowledge that someone had to do it, and knowledge that these people would be logical choices given their location, activities, and character, and the inference then that they were at least involved). In fact, given the whole "cowboy and Indian" business so closely tied in the culture to the "cowboy identity", there's a popular perception that they indeed did this. And because us, Americans and Canadians and Australians, live in indescribably and fanatically racist societies who have fond nostalgia for this genocide program, cowboys are in fact lauded and romanticized for doing this.

So when I see politicians at various photo ops awkwardly (or in some cases, less awkwardly) donning cowboy boots, denim, and those stupid hats, in the interests of wooing some of the more psychotic demographics of our continent, I'm left wondering what the differences would have been between this and a hypothetical Großdeutschland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gro%C3%9Fdeutschland), properly ethnically cleansed of the Untermenschen, where uncomfortable but whorish German politicians, say 100 years from now (to account for the difference in dates), would have to suit up in SS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schutzstaffel) uniforms, however silly they might feel, in order to pander to some of the crazier parts of a now properly Aryan Eastern Europe. The main difference I can see is that Hitler's ethnic cleansing program, which he explicitly, and he said this, modelled on that used in America in its questing after Manifest Destiny (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manifest_Destiny), didn't work as well as ours, though it did manage to kill millions nevertheless"

[Decolonize The Left]

You make a very interesting, and pertinent, point. I would like to suggest that denim jeans are not directly associated with cowboys following the '60s.

It is my understanding that prior to the '60s, jeans were associated with 'workers' and undesirable by the mainstream. When the 'hippies' took to wearing jeans as a statement of rejection of mainstream culture, this was then integrated into mainstream culture following the movement into the late '70s-early '80s. What I mean by all this is that in our modern times, jeans are just jeans, not a relation to cowboys.

As for the boots and hats, I agree with your argument if one leaves the practicality of clothing aside.

- August

[Red October]

Cowboy clothing isn't a uniform, it's just clothing that is identified (usually) with cowboys. Cowboy hats, boots, jeans, chaps, etc. are all practical items of clothing that are worn for that job because they're well suited for it. Rural workers still wear these clothes precisely for that reason. Sure, politicians dress up like cowboys for sport, but that's just politicians being the silly people they are. Of course cowboys killed indians in the past and paved the way for the expansion of the American empire too, but their clothing doesn't have much to do with that. Besides, many cowboys were landless laborers who sold their labor power to ranchers, bosses, etc. You make a good point that glorifying cowboys is dumb, but objecting to their clothing isn't really relevant, especially not when you compare it to an SS uniform. If I was a rural agricultural worker I'd like to have a good pair of jeans, boots, and a nice wide-brimmed hat too.

[jake williams]

Red October - I don't completely disagree. While cowboy-associated clothing does look stupid, and has become associated with an unpleasant culture, it does obviously stem from practical usage, and yes, it is to some extent used that way today. That wasn't really what I was referring to though. To some extent my point was less about absolute practical similarity, and more the impression I feel personally about the understanding people have of our past. The use of the SS explicitly was to some extent hyperbole, sure. But not entirely. The image, at least, of cowboys - and it's the image which politicians are attempting to evoke - is of the crazy frontiersman who avidly and excitedly engaged in the sorts of activities which formed a major part of the genocide here, and in terms of the process and effect I think it bares a striking similarity to Nazi ethnic cleansing.

[#FF0000]

Sounds like you're basing this entirely off of the cowboy myth.

Cowboys were just agricultural workers. Ranchers, farmers, and farm-hands. They didn't really go out and kill natives. I'm sure some have, of course, but I'm just saying cowboys have more to do with America's expansion westward than the genocide that came along with it. THAT bit was carried out by the US Army.

[Dros]

:lol:

When I saw this thread, I thought it was about the New Jersey State Police.

As for this, I think there's an important terminological misunderstanding about what the word "cowboy" actually means. Cowboys are herders. And while they often were at odds with First Nations people, those most fully culpable for the genocide of these nations are those within the US government and the US Army who systematically eradicated the First Nations people, at the behest of the rural section of the population.

Certainly, that section of the country is more backwards and more dominated by reactionary ideology. Certainly, the whole country has absolutely no clue about the murder of millions of people that happened here.

I tend to agree with Red October.

[KrazyRabidSheep]

Sounds like you're basing this entirely off of the cowboy myth.

Cowboys were just agricultural workers. Ranchers, farmers, and farm-hands. They didn't really go out and kill natives. I'm sure some have, of course, but I'm just saying cowboys have more to do with America's expansion westward than the genocide that came along with it. THAT bit was carried out by the US Army.^This^

[spartan]

It is my understanding that prior to the '60s, jeans were associated with 'workers' and undesirable by the mainstream. When the 'hippies' took to wearing jeans as a statement of rejection of mainstream culture, this was then integrated into mainstream culture following the movement into the late '70s-early '80s. What I mean by all this is that in our modern times, jeans are just jeans, not a relation to cowboys.
Jeans were worn by cowboys (Hence why most modern "cowboys" like to wear jeans to relate to their ancestors) but despite popular misconception jeans were originally worn by sailors not cowboys.

Sailors of course have been at the forefront of most fashion trends as travelling around the world to different ports (Often big cities) made it easy to spread quickly.

[Hexen]

Are you actually referring to Gunslingers? (http://www.answers.com/Gunslinger)

[Red October]

Red October - I don't completely disagree. While cowboy-associated clothing does look stupid, and has become associated with an unpleasant culture, it does obviously stem from practical usage, and yes, it is to some extent used that way today. That wasn't really what I was referring to though. To some extent my point was less about absolute practical similarity, and more the impression I feel personally about the understanding people have of our past. The use of the SS explicitly was to some extent hyperbole, sure. But not entirely. The image, at least, of cowboys - and it's the image which politicians are attempting to evoke - is of the crazy frontiersman who avidly and excitedly engaged in the sorts of activities which formed a major part of the genocide here, and in terms of the process and effect I think it bares a striking similarity to Nazi ethnic cleansing.

When George Bush dresses up like a cowboy, it's not so much to identify with westward expansion (though the idea of the "pioneering spirit" probably has something to do with it), it's about looking like a regular working class guy, "one of us". And like others have pointed out, cowboys were not really the ones driving the genocide, that's mostly the US Government and it's armed forces.

[Organic Revolution]

Why is this thread in existence?

[KrazyRabidSheep]

Why is this thread in existence?I think it's a good thread, however perhaps it should be moved to chit chat.

[freakazoid]

Sounds like you're basing this entirely off of the cowboy myth.

Cowboys were just agricultural workers. Ranchers, farmers, and farm-hands. They didn't really go out and kill natives. I'm sure some have, of course, but I'm just saying cowboys have more to do with America's expansion westward than the genocide that came along with it. THAT bit was carried out by the US Army.

I'm going to agree with this.

Yeah, I'm sure when they put on a "cowboy" outfit they are thinking, "Man I just can't help but love and support how they committed genocide."...:rolleyes: