A "eco-"trotskyist is back!

[Lenin Cat]

sence none of you remeber me... I am a very socially left trotskyist who likes politics. :P

[Malakangga]

:confused: welcome to Revleft,comrade

[RedAnarchist]

Hi, welcome:)

Are you a former RevLeft member?

[KrazyRabidSheep]

Welcome.

[Lenin Cat]

Hi, welcome:)

Are you a former RevLeft member?
yes

[moonmoon]

Welcome to Revleft!Have fun here!:)

[Sharon den Adel]

Welcome to RevLeft.

[KrazyRabidSheep]

yes
Could you spark the memory of us old-timers?

Senility kicks in, and it's hard to remember former comrades. :eek:

[OI OI OI]

welcome fellow Trot

Happy posting:)

[Lenin Cat]

Could you spark the memory of us old-timers?

Senility kicks in, and it's hard to remember former comrades. :eek:
nope, was here for like 3 days. :P

[Holden Caulfield]

are you called eco-trot on youtube as well, if yes i remember, if not:confused:

hi either way

[apathy maybe]

Could you spark the memory of us old-timers?

Senility kicks in, and it's hard to remember former comrades. :eek:

Get off my lawn.

[BIG BROTHER]

so you hate stalin, and love trees? lol cool, welcome back comrade.:)

[BOZG]

What's an eco-Trot?

[Hit The North]

What's an eco-Trot? You hate Stalin and love trees, as josefrancisco wrote above ^

[Vanguard1917]

What's an eco-Trot?

What's an eco-Trotskyist? Same thing as an eco-Marxist, i guess. I.e. an oxymoron.

But welcome to the site!

[Hit The North]

What's an eco-Trotskyist? Same thing as an eco-Marxist, i guess. I.e. an oxymoron.

But welcome to the site!
Are you saying that Marxists are opposed to the ecology?

[Incendiarism]

"The Communists disdain to eat organic foods and compost waste."

Hey.

[Vanguard1917]

Are you saying that Marxists are opposed to the ecology?

I'm saying that 'environmentalist Marxism' is a contradiction in terms, since Marxism is diametrically opposed to the key tenets of green ideology.

[RedAnarchist]

I remember you, you're careyprice31, right?

[Hit The North]

So there's no room for a Marxist critique of how the capitalist mode of production impacts upon the environment?

[Vanguard1917]

So there's no room for a Marxist critique of how the capitalist mode of production impacts upon the environment?

There certainly is. But such a critique would have nothing to do with the reactionary political objectives of environmentalism.

[Hit The North]

Fair enough. How would a Marxist critique go?

[Vanguard1917]

Fair enough. How would a Marxist critique go?

It would proceed from the premise that capitalism -- while it indeed represents immense historical progress in terms of man's relationship with nature (as Marx emphasised several times*) -- can only produce a retarded and essentially non-conscious mastery over nature. It therefore stands in the way of genuine human liberation, the latter requiring the conscious mastery by humans of their natural environment (i.e. their material surroundings). And in order for men and women to subjugate nature to their will, they need a consciously planned social system and the removal of all restraints enforced by capitalism on the development of the productive forces of society.

This is, of course, the direct opposite of what the environmentalists demand -- i.e. even greater restraints to be placed on industrial development than there exist already (which btw performs a great service to the ruling class by providing very convenient apologism for capitalism's greatest crime: i.e. its utter inability to provide sufficient industrial development worldwide. Hence part of the reason why environmentalist ideology has been taken up by the current stagnant Western ruling class.)



* See, for example, this explanation from the Grundrisse, where Marx sees capitalism's transformation of nature as its 'great civilising influence' and revolutionary role:

'Hence the great civilizing influence of capital, its production of a stage of society compared with which all earlier stages appear to be merely local progress and idolatory of nature. Nature becomes for the first time simply an object for manking, purely a matter of utility; it ceases to be recognised as a power in its own right; and the theoretical knowledge of its independent laws appears only as a stratagem designed to subdue it to human requirements, whether as the object of consumption or as the means of production. Pursuing this tendency, capital has pushed beyond national boundaries and prejudices, beyond the deification of nature and the inherited, self-sufficient satisfaction of existing needs confined within well-defined bounds, and the reproduction of the traditional way of life. It is destructive of all this, and permanently revolutionary, tearing down all obstacles that impede the development of the productive forces, the expansion of needs, the diversity of production and the exploitation and exchange of natural and intellectual forces.'

(Maybe you should split this thread?)

[Lenin Cat]

There certainly is. But such a critique would have nothing to do with the reactionary political objectives of environmentalism.

the environment is just as imporent as the workers.