We must cleanse the anti-American vermin - This is how I pro

[Stormin Norman]

Redcomrade took issue with a quote where I said it is high time America cleanse itself of the human garbage that will be protesting in Washinton this weekend. I already posted my reply in my ignorant statements thread, but I thought this subject could use its own thread. Here is what he said:


"I think it is high time America cleanse itself of this type of human garbage"- Stormin Norman
This is quite possibly the scariest shit I have heard Norm say as of yet. That cleanse part brings up some terrible recolections of past governments "cleansings". If you love this country Norm than you should understand the best thing about it is that theoretically you can say whatever you like and no matter how unpopular it is you wont end up "cleansed". If you ever took power Norm or someone else with the cleansing idea took power and they tried to put into affect cleansings of radicals on my soil wether the radicals be fascists or stalinists or fundamentalists I would fight to death to destroy your Gestapo bullshit and ensure that evry man be he nazi, stalinist, islamic fundamentalist, or moderate has the right to a voice without ending up in a"cleansing facility". May you and those like you never come to power here or nywer!!!

I stand behind that statement 100%, although not in the mass murdering connotation that he suggests. As we have external enemies, we also have internal enemies. The internal threat comes from immigrants and anti-American left-wingers. These are people who see our freedom as a weakness and aim to exploit it. They cite the first amendment while they speak sedition. Let me remind you that plotting the destruction of the system is not protected speech. In war times it becomes extremely important to monitor the actions and intentions of potential domestic threats.

It is undeniable that there exists a growing faction among the population of the U.S. dedicated to undermining the U.S. civil society, government institutions, and underlying ideals of the American nation. When the war dice have been rolled, there is no predetermined outcome and the stakes remain high. The worst scenario, in this case, is the destruction of the greatest endeavor of liberty ever embarked upon by a segment of humanity. Many times it is fear for this type of human condition that drives those who aim to destroy the United States, and it is this freedom that I aim to protect, sometimes through the use of extreme measures. A number of times in our history we have had to resort to methodology that appears contradictory to the ideals those measures were aimed at protecting.

Let me direct you to the U.S. Sedition Act of 1918; Section 3:

Whoever, when the United States is at war, shall willfully make or convey false reports or false statements with intent to interfere with the operation or success of the military or naval forces of the United States, or to promote the success of its enemies, or shall willfully make or convey false reports, or false statements, . . . or incite insubordination, disloyalty, mutiny, or refusal of duty, in the military or naval forces of the United States, or shall willfully obstruct . . . the recruiting or enlistment service of the United States, or . . . shall willfully utter, print, write, or publish any disloyal, profane, scurrilous, or abusive language about the form of government of the United States, or the Constitution of the United States, or the military or naval forces of the United States . . . or shall willfully display the flag of any foreign enemy, or shall willfully . . . urge, incite, or advocate any curtailment of production . . . or advocate, teach, defend, or suggest the doing of any of the acts or things in this section enumerated and whoever shall by word or act support or favor the cause of any country with which the United States is at war or by word or act oppose the cause of the United States therein, shall be punished by a fine of not more than $10,000 or imprisonment for not more than twenty years, or both…

Clearly, a distinction was made regarding the types of speech that this law was aimed at destroying. What this law did not protect was seditious attempts to undermine the U.S. government, or speech designed to weaken the morale of our armed forces, or the resolve of the nation at large. Did this action have a negative effect on civil liberties? To those who enjoy and cherish the freedom’s granted under the 1st amendment, probably not. More than likely they found themselves more involved in actions that benefited the country rather than emboldening the enemy. However, certain opinions were probably held back for fear of prosecution, so it did act to hinder the expression of ideas. Like it or not, the Sedition Act definitely had the cleansing effect to which I was referring.

I have a question to ask those leftists that wanted to believe my statement was a reference to politicide. Apparently you have a very healthy fear of being persecuted for your thoughts. However, you protect a political and economic system that has proven to be the most efficient model for killing those who oppose the state. Why is this? Do I dare say that you support it, so long as the type of thought targeted runs anti to yours? Why do you protect Saddam, a man who is guilty of removing the tongues of those that offer the slightest criticism of his method of rule; and demonize a man who is willing to take action to remove his terror from the world? Could it be that you only care about the 1st amendment, so long as it allows for your movement to expand to the point where you can desecrate the Bill of Rights, and commit the type politicide that communists are so famous for? When does the left quit trying to separate the results from the model used? Marxism was the model used by Stalinists, and Maoist alike.

I know there are some here that would like nothing more than to label me a Nazi and dismiss me. Now, was I referring to a new Sedition Act when I suggested that vermin supporting anti-Americanism represent a problem that must be cleansed? No. I, like those on the left, propose we use the 1st amendment, but as a tool for the destruction of our enemies rather than the destruction of our country. An atmosphere has been created where enemies of the U.S. feel comfortable in vocalizing their perverted viewpoints. It is obvious that the views one espouses can be used as an indicator of where their loyalties lie. I would never suggest that we start locking people up for having a dissenting opinion, for I often hold unpopular views. However, a person’s ideas can provide insight into the types of actions, or the activities that they may be engaged in. A criminal mind will more than likely lead to criminal activities. Once a person identifies themselves as an enemy of the United States, investigators can then try to charge them with the commission of whatever crimes they might be involved in. That is, if they happen to exist. By evaluating the speech coming from different segments of the population, you can then narrow the scope of the search and allocate law enforcement resources wisely.

I have long been an advocate for our system of government. To hear my enemies, who support the vilest system of government, allege that I support the types of acts that I am committed to fighting disgusts me. I suggest we use a system of justice to defeat those who present a credible threat to our way of life, not mass graves. I hope this clears the air.

[Moskitto]

urm, cleansing?

this sounds like the idea i had at the train station, but that was really stupid and had nothing to do with politics.

[canikickit]

The internal threat comes from immigrants anti-American left-wingers.

Come now, Norm, I thought you were above such mass generalising.

What about the Anti-American right wingers? Also I'm sure there are others who didn't immigrate.

[legot]

define your freedom please,cause being cleansed from society simply because you don't support its goverment 100% does'nt sound too free to me

[Moskitto]

Everyone, no matter where they live has ancestors who migrated.

[commie kg]

Let me direct you to the U.S. Sedition Act of 1918; Section 3

That's a shitty law. Just another reason from me to get out of this shit-hole country. While I'me here, I might as well break it though...

[Stormin Norman]

What about the Anti-American right wingers? Also I'm sure there are others who didn't immigrate.

True. I would not discriminate when it comes to enemies of the United States. Those who aim to capitalize on a war time situation in order advance their anti-American agenda should be classified as direct threats to the survival of this nation.

Let me further explain that I am not for locking people up for thought crimes, but I would use the views people express as a means of narrowing the scope of my search for criminal behavior detrimental to the citizens of the United States.

[El Brujo]

So then you would support the locking up of all your capitalist asspals in Venezuela who are blatantly trying to overthrow the government in an arbitrary fashion, wouldn't you? Otherwise you, my friend, are a HYPOCRITE.

[j]

SN-who are you to determine what is "detrimental to the citizens of the United States?" The use of my tax dollars to kill innocents or "collateral damage" is detrimental to me--a citizen of the United States. I do not hate the United States. As a matter of fact, the essential ideals (though they may be borne of hypocrits) that this nation was built I hold dear.

How can one be termed "disloyal" or "insubordinate" for expressing views that oppose the US government? The words from the act are "shall willfully utter, print, write, or publish any disloyal, profane, scurrilous, or abusive language about the form of government of the United States" Notice how it says FORM of government of the United States, not "THE government of the United States." That means these "vermin" and "scum" who are protesting war in Iraq are exercising their first ammendment right. They are not in violation of anything!!

The FORM of government we have here in the US is one that is a republic. Representatives are elected by the people of the country to make decisions for them. The FORM of government of the US does not have to be capitalistic either. A democratic socialist movement can occur within the context of the constitution and US governmental structure.

If we believe that represenitives are elected by the people whom they serve, does it not make sense to show disapproval of their actions? That would be the most "patriotic" thing I can imagine.

j

[Smoking Frog II]

I would like to quote from RATM:

Why stand on a silent platform?
Fight the Norm
Fuck his mom.

It goes something like that anyway.

[truthaddict11]

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

[Capitalist Imperial]

Quote: from commie kg on 6:29 pm on Jan. 18, 2003
Let me direct you to the U.S. Sedition Act of 1918; Section 3

That's a shitty law. Just another reason from me to get out of this shit-hole country. While I'me here, I might as well break it though...


What country do you plan to move to? I'll be happy to hold the door open for you. Of course, I'll just keep it open because after about 2 weeks you will be running you snot-nose back here after you realize how good you fucking have it.

On 2nd thought, what am I saying? You are not actually going to leave in the 1st place. You are probably just some rich kid living with mom & dad, eating their food, on their computer, angry because they didn't get you that PS2 game you wanted so bad.

Give me a break, man. Lets face it, if you could actually leave, you would have done so.

If you are in fact serious, tell me where you are moving, what is holding you up, and what is the net-benefit of moving there compared with the USA?

[commie kg]

Quote: from Capitalist Imperial on 12:36 am on Jan. 19, 2003

Quote: from commie kg on 6:29 pm on Jan. 18, 2003
Let me direct you to the U.S. Sedition Act of 1918; Section 3

That's a shitty law. Just another reason from me to get out of this shit-hole country. While I'me here, I might as well break it though...


What country do you plan to move to? I'll be happy to hold the door open for you. Of course, I'll just keep it open because after about 2 weeks you will be running you snot-nose back here after you realize how good you fucking have it.

On 2nd thought, what am I saying? You are not actually going to leave in the 1st place. You are probably just some rich kid living with mom & dad, eating their food, on their computer, angry because they didn't get you that PS2 game you wanted so bad.

Give me a break, man. Lets face it, if you could actually leave, you would have done so.

If you are in fact serious, tell me where you are moving, what is holding you up, and what is the net-benefit of moving there compared with the USA?

The only thing keeping me from moving is the fact that I am in school. Once I am done, then I plan on looking fo a job outside the country. Even my parents have had serious thoughts about moving to Canada.

Really the only reason I want to move out of the US is that I am unhappy with the administration's policies, and since I am the leftist minority, I feel powerless to change them. Now, if there is a new president elected in the 2004 elections, and some changes are made, I might consider staying, but I don't know how likely that is.

[Bored of Education]

The Sedition Act is a piece of fucking trash. We have the right to "Freedom of Speech" yet we're limited on what we can say about the government. How fucking hypocritical is that? I'm not Anti-American at all. This country has problems and I'd love to see them get fixed. There's some great people that live here, and then there are the assholes. The assholes are usually the ones telling everyone to whole-heartedly love America. While I do not hate this country at all I will not pledge allegiance or my love to it.

I will say this though: the bandwagon patriotism following the September 11th attacks really needs to go away right fucking now. Waving a flag around and asking America to sodomize you isn't going to take away that tragedy. So sit the fuck down and stifle yourself, you're not helping by being an idiot.

[Smoking Frog II]

And here's us thinking the USA are s'posed to be libertarian...

[Eastside Revolt]

It is because of people like capi- Ipmerialst that it becomes nearly impossible not to have deep hate for mine and his country.

[Sol]

Christ Norman... I thought you were more intelligent than this. Opposition and sedition are not one and the same. You call these people trash, but unlike you, you fucking coward, they're out voicing their unwillingness to take human lives in a war that is politically and economically motivated. Meanwhile, you sit in your house, applauding an administration that advocates immoral preemptive strikes, the murder of thousands of civilians, and the destruction and occupation of a nation that won't be able to defend itself.

I had respect for you before Norman. You're true colors now shine through, along with the rest of your bigoted cronies. You don't even advocate capitalism. You want domination, by the sword if neccessary.

I'm ashamed that you're what passes for a patriot in my country.

[Weatherman]

Damn you really pissed me off Norman, good job. What also pisses me off is no one has fully rebuttled your post, and I can understand why. Theres just so much to rebuttle, no I'm not making a joke. It seems like you dont even take this seriously, how could you still have those ignorant views, you must be brainwashed hardcore. Hell you might even be a CIA misinformationalist, they get paid pretty well and all they do is go around spreading misinformation, your pretty good at that; so if your not one go sign up.

First off, you talk of internal and external enemies, and that's how you think of them, just as enemies not as humans. People arent born evil or corrupt, they are doing something for a reason and you should find out first before you go kill them. For example all of these so called "oppressive governments" that you talk about; do some research and you'll find that most of the dictator's are U.S. puppets, bought and payed for. We control much of South America this way. We did it in Saudi Arabia, in Chile, in Cuba, in Mexico, in Panama, in Vietnam, and many other countries. We either fund "our" candate who is going to implement policies and economic trade relations that are good for us or if that doesnt work we put him in by force. If latter they see that they are selling out there people, and starving their people for the U.S. and decide to stop, we start propaganda against them and replace them. That's what happened in Panama and Chile, replacing of a former puppet. Most of our puppets are also drug lords, we snatch them for multiple reasons. First theres a lot of money in the drug trade, second if they ever get out of hand we can call them a drug dealer and go replace them with a differant drug dealer. Did you know that Saddam Hussein was put into power by the CIA. yep. The Shah of Iran was are puppet but he was overthrown so we needed another puppet in the middle east. All this is well documented if you care to do any real research. Oh and those Kurd dissidents that Saddam gassed, that was when he was still our *****. We told him to stay in power by any means neccesary so he gassed the dissidents. Then we told him to start the Iraq and Iran war, and he did. We then sold weapons to both sides (anything for money like true capitalist). So after he stopped obeying us we trick him into attacking Kuwait. First of all its important to understand that Kuwait used to be part of Iraq because our British allies carved it out for their own use. Second, Saddam had made accusations that Kuwait was stealing Iraq's oil by building piplines at a slant. The U.S. then released a statment saying we had no interest in Kuwait, and had no plans on defending them. Hussein fell for the trap and took Kuwait with almost no blood shed. We then ofcourse acted suprised and sent over military before the U.N. had a chance to meet (illegal by the way). I could go on and on about the Iraq situation and how its all are fault, but you should just do more reasearch. If you dont want to read watch, "Hidden War"; thats a pretty good documentary of it all. So far we have killed 1.7 million Iraqis as a direct result of our illegal sanctions against them. People arent even allowed to trade food or medicine. Former secretary of state Madeline Albright admitted all of this on live television (thats probably why she's "Former" Secreatary of state).
To what end have we killed all these people, none. Inspectors were caught spying for the U.S. in the late 90's and thats why they were kicked out. Over 1000 inspectors have been inside Iraq and never find weapons of mass destruction. And how is it that they cant have them but we can? We are the only country who uses them, and actively threatens to use them. If I was Hussein and I had a nuke, I would tell the U.S., you disarm yours and I'll disarm mine. Ofcourse this isnt possible because he doesnt have nukes. I dont like Hussein and I dont like Bush, their both on the same side; trying to get us to fight each other instead of fighting them, the oppresors. Has anyone told you that Bush made his first million with back alley deals with the Bin Ladens, or that Cheney owns pipelines in Afaghanistan. Who do you think the war benefits, not me, not you, Them; The rich. Also I dont appreciate you trying to mix the left with genocide. Capitalist nations and Communist nations have both commited atrocities but these arent a part of the systems policy's just that particular nation's. Are you forgetting that Hitler was a Capitalist, you should know better than to use arguments that can so easily be thrown back in your face. You have a love for this country; but from that love stems a hate for other countrys other cultures other people. Why not embrace humanity, why enslave the world so that Americans can live better. And yes we do live better because of the enslavement of the world, that is the true reason for our wealth; you can not blame immigrants for coming here to try to earn back what we (our government)stole from them. We have 6.2% of the worlds population and 50% of the wealth, how do you think we got that? Do you think thats fari?All of your views about the left is due to brainwashing and nationalistic blindness. Right now you are questioning everything I have said, I must by lying, or I must be misinformed; this does not match up to your vision of the world. I beg you to do some more research with an open mind, I have no reason to lie. If I was wrong I would admit it and hopefully learn from it; but this constant bickering isnt going to get us anywhere. I must apologize about how I have handled by rebuttle, sometimes I am overwhelmed with emotions. But the message is there. I long for the day when you will join hands with me and we will speak in one voice. I am not your enemy. I have no pride so you cant hurt me. The truth is all I have.

[Ari HR]

Storming Moron,
how about this idea:

Cleansing anti-communist vermin from Che-Lives

No? Then shut the fuck up.

[Anonymous]

i like that idea....

[Stormin Norman]

Storming Moron,
how about this idea:

Cleansing anti-communist vermin from Che-Lives

No? Then shut the fuck up.

Your loss.

[Stormin Norman]

I suggest that anyone who disagrees with the constitutionality of the 1918 Sedition Act, an amendment to the 1917 Espionage Act, look at the White Court decision that upheld the government's position. It was stated that the 1st Amendment does not guarantee absolute rights, that in times of war when statements may pose a "clear and present danger" the government reserves the right to infringe on the sphere of public speech.

The history of free speech rights reminds us that there remains a delicate balance between freedom and security, and that rights guaranteed under the constitution could easily be usurped by a zealous legislature, a powerful executive, and a liberal court.

Nothing guarantees the survival of our essential freedoms that the framers considered to be endowed upon all humanity by the creator. Obviously these rights must be protected, sometimes that requires the use of military force on those enemies who aim to destroy us. This is probably the reason why the court sided with the wording of the Statute. They realized that socialist statements made disparging the U.S. military effort were an attempt to undermine the efforts of those who defend our freedoms with their lives. Maybe the decision was spawned partly out of respect for the countless Americans who lied dead from gruesome trench warfare in a European theater, for the sake of defending those rights.

[Bored of Education]

Socialist(s) 1: The moral equivalent of a bum on the street asking for a handout 2: A troglodyte 3: A Luddite 3: Of or having to do with the phylum Mollusca, a category of invertebrates 4: A macrofossil 5: Someone who wishes to ride the gravy train 6: A greaser, a dirtbag, or pile of feces 7: Plankton, smut, fungus, scum, or stain 8: A yellow-belly otherwise known as commie pinko 9: the waste effluent of society 10: A nonproducer 11: Someone with extremely low intelligence and or motivation 12: a looter, thief, or lynch mob 13: someone who deserves to be 86'd from civilization 14: My worst enemy -From Stormin Norman's Wonderful Worldview; 1st Edition
Wow.. that's incredibly stupid and ignorant of you my friend. :(

[lifetrnal]

Stormin,

I hate to resort to this kind of statement, but... you are an idiot. First, the United States is NOT at war, like it or not, no state of declared war exists...not with terrorism, and certainly not with Iraq.
Second, as an American, speaking of your *rights* the reason they exist at all is to provide an avenue for the PEOPLE to state grivances with the government. You say that you are not in favor of mass murder, but what you propose comes close. To silence the voice of opposition is most completely anti-american, and indeed would be leading us down the road to facism. But, I think, with the rhetoric that you are spitting out, this would not bother you are all...

[lifetrnal]

Bravo, Truth, Bravo.

[Stormin Norman]

This following exerpt from a David Horowitz article, titled "They Want to Place America Under Siege", should help to decribe the type of threat I believe the anti-American, anti-war protestors to be. Apparently the crowd chanted a popular slogan used by suicide bombers and Islamic terrorists. Tell me that that the organizers of this weekend's "peace protest" do not represent a clear and present danger, after you read the full article.

-When he got going, the Imam Mussa dotted the i's and crossed any t's that the narco-terrorist spokesman had missed, telling the crowd that the regime change they wanted was in Washington not Bagdhad, and that they really didn't want a regime change at all. "We 're calling for a System change," he said. Revolution. "We won't get any justice as long as that criminal Congress is up there. We're calling for revolution. It's revolution time, brothers and sisters. We have to get rid of greedy murderers and imperialists like George Bush in the White House." The Imam then led the crowd -- are you ready for this -- in the chant the suicide bombers use as they blow up innocent men, women and children -- Allahu Ahkbar! Allahu Ahkbar! Allahu Akhbar!"

full text: http://www.jewishworldreview.com/cols/horowitz1.asp

Here are some examples of the type of people who are known to use the phrase "Allahu Akhbar":

Islamic Fanatics murder over 100 people in Nigerian riots (http://www.factsofisrael.com/load.php?p=http://www.factsofisrael.com/blog/archives/000500.html)

Hell, here is a online Muslim news service that goes by that title. One can only look at the content of that site to discern that they are a propagandist for our enemies:

allahuakhbar.com (http://www.allahuakhbar.com/)

Here are pertinent definitions of the phrase, according to Xservicemen.com:

Allah-u-Akbar or Allahu Akhbar: Arabic phrase for "Allah is greater," a common utterance of Islamist terrorists when attacking unarmed, defenseless civilians;

Allahu akbar walillahi'l-hamd!: "Allah is greater and to Allah we give praise!" -- cited by author Steven Emerson as the slogan of the Muslim brotherhood terrorist org

http://www.xservicemen.com/glossary.htm

The 9-11 hijackers were told to “Shout ‘Allahu akbar,’ because this strikes fear in the hearts of the unbelievers.”

The Real Story of Flight 93 (http://www.j-bradford-delong.net/TotW/flight_93.html)

That's right the useful idiots were marching around chanting the very phrase our enemies use when they commit suicide bombings, and generally commit murder. This is a despicable display of blatant anti-Americanism. Clearly, Imam Musa, the AMC (American Muslim Counsel), The HLF (Holy Land Foundation), and the communist group known as the Workers World Party should be under investigation for involvment in a conspiracy to incite a revolution. The facts about the anti-war movement this weekend given by Horowitz and others only strengthen the case that many have made against these groups. These are radical subversive elements operating inside the United States and are known contributors and supporters of terrorism. The countless others who attended the rally are doped up morons who couldn't catch a clue if it were the common cold.

It is now evident that good Americans are going to have to pry themselves from time spent with the family, work, and America's favorite past-times in order to take to the streets and confront these roaches. It is time for the silent majority to act in opposition of those who hate America. We are smarter. We are larger in number, and we are just. Only by directly confronting these jobless losers can we take back the microphone and beat them in the rhetorical arena. It is time we drive these worms back into the bowels of the earth, where they belong.

[Fires of History]

Quote: from El Brujo on 7:57 pm on Jan. 18, 2003
So then you would support the locking up of all your capitalist asspals in Venezuela who are blatantly trying to overthrow the government in an arbitrary fashion, wouldn't you? Otherwise you, my friend, are a HYPOCRITE.


Sorry El Brujo, you'll never get an answer to this question because it would force Stormin Normin to show his hypocrisy. If you're CIA-backed, then revolution against a democratically-elected state is OK. If not, then you should be cleansed like the "vermin" you are.

Stormin Normin, yes, you are a fucking idiot. Say it with me.

[truthaddict11]

SN what a bunch of right-wing bullshit
funny how they think all the protesters automaticly agree with the terorists most if not all are dont. i bet they would feel the same way with people being against the interment of Japanese in WW2. I bet you would say they are befriending "the Jap".
Maybe there is a need for revolution i mean just look what that congress passed over the past 2 years anti-arab legislation.
And the protesters arent "jobless" many people vocal against the war are college professors such as Noam Chomsky or Howard Zinn. As well as many other well knowns., Dissent is not anti-americanism.

[Stormin Norman]

Dissent is not anti-americanism.

No, but yelling "Allahu Akhbar" in a crowded country is.

[canikickit]

No it's not.

[James]

this thread made me smile. Thanks SM.

[Anonymous]

Quote: from canikickit on 2:06 am on Jan. 23, 2003
No it's not.


How is it not?

[James]

freedom of speech and all that...

[Stormin Norman]

Freedom of speech does not guarantee the right to plot against the government or associate with terrorist organizations that we are at war with. I want these people under investigation for their ties to Hamas, the PLO, al Qaeda, and other organizations that have expressed and acted on the premise that they want to bring about the destruction of my country. The fact that these morons are clearly identifying themselves as subversives has nothing to do with extinguishing their right to speak. We are simply using their words as an indicator of the type of crimes they may, or may not, be guilty of committing. If investigations into their affairs generates evidence of illegal activity, then arrest them.

There is a difference between locking somebody up for a what they say, and using what they say to justify criminal investigation into their activities.

[canikickit]

How is it not?

How is it, you fucking wierdo?


The fact that these morons are clearly identifying themselves as subversives has nothing to do with extinguishing their right to speak. We are simply using their words as an indicator of the type of crimes they may, or may not, be guilty of committing.

For saying "Allah U Akbar"? You idiot, do you know what that means? It means "allah above everything". You think that all followers of the muslim faith are subversives? The members of Al Queda and Hamas and so on are the minority of the muslim population.

How many muslims are there in the world? Around...man, I don't fucking know, but there's plenty.

What you are saying is biggoted bullshit and you know it.

Why do you bother? Why?

[Stormin Norman]

How many muslims are there in the world? Around...man, I don't fucking know, but there's plenty.

I am not talking about the 'Arab Street' in places like Iran and Iraq. I am talking about a conserted effort to undermine U.S. democracy by a wide variety of cultural backgrounds. White hippies also engaged in the chanting this weekend, so your claim that I am basing my criticism on race is false. However, we can discuss that if you wish. Some parts of the Middle East seem to be in serious danger of being turned over to fanatical fringe groups. In a sense, the fringe is in danger of becoming the mainstream in places like Turkey, Pakistan, and Nigeria (in Africa). Hope remaims for places like Iran (http://www.washtimes.com/op-ed/20021009-28515618.htm), and Iraq, in the event of U.S. intervention in that region. You are right in assumming that not all Arab Muslims represent what we consider to be extreme elements of that culture, but it is dishonest to depict them as a small minority. This aspect of the Arab world varies in large degree of where in the Middle East one chooses to look. What is generally accepted by anyone who reads the papers, is the fact that there is a serious threat amassing in that part of the worl. This not only dangers the standing regimes that have power (Saudi Arabi, Turkey), but also the stability of the U.S, as September 11 clearly demonstrated.

Before you go calling people racist and bigoted, why don't you put the bong down, and try reading up on current events? Your attempts to label me as such only demonstrates your lack of understanding about the topics I am discussing.

[kylie]

You know what? I think Stormin Norman needs a good hug.
*hugs Stormin Norman*
There, much better.

[timbaly]

Quote: from canikickit on 6:42 pm on Jan. 23, 2003
[

How many muslims are there in the world? Around...man, I don't fucking know, but there's plenty.



1.7 billion

[Stormin Norman]

You know what? I think Stormin Norman needs a good hug.
*hugs Stormin Norman*
There, much better.

Typical namby pamby liberal response. Need I remind you that arms are for killing not for hugging. Try and hug me and we will see how long it takes for your dead body to hit the ground.

[MEXCAN]

Who wants to Kick the chair when i hand Norman a yard of rope for him to hang himself??I have one particular member in mind !!

[Invader Zim]

"We must cleanse the anti-American vermin"

Ohh well their goes the rest of the world then. Imagin that only the US people left.

[Sol]

Norman, you'd let police infringe on rights to supposedly monitor terrorists? Remember what happened last time we had a major war with agencies that had those powers?

The "anti americans" you're talking about (and I'm assuming you're not just lumping the left together and calling them terrorists) aren't even a real danger. We had plenty of warning prior to 9/11. FBI dropped the ball, big time. Giving them new powers to invade privacy and monitor university students is just a way for them to keep tabs on folks.

[synthesis]

I am talking about a conserted effort to undermine U.S. democracy by a wide variety of cultural backgrounds.

Stormin Norman,

I would like you to spell out for me, very clearly, as to why you believe anti-war protesters are attempting to undermine democracy?

Aren't they excercising their democratic and constitutional right to bring forth their grievances to a government that may not be representing them?

After all, there are certainly people who believe that even the net gain (i.e. the total fiscal worth, disregarding massive loss of human life) of a war on Iraq would not be worth merely the money spent? Estimates are ranging to up to $2 trillion for the war now. That's $40 billion per state for funding schools, assisting the elderly and disabled, and health care.

I would like a clear, concise, and unopinionated reply to the question at hand and only the question at hand.

[El Brujo]

Quote: from MEXCAN on 5:30 am on Jan. 24, 2003
Who wants to Kick the chair when i hand Norman a yard of rope for him to hang himself??I have one particular member in mind !!


I think it would be funner to throw him into a nice little hole and stone him to death. Along with the rest of the redneck population.

[El Brujo]

Or even better. Drop this "big tougph yankee boy" off in the middle of Bagdad with a sign on him that sais "I support the bombing of your country" in Iraqi and let the local population take care of him.

[ID2002]

hey, I'm glad I don't live in fascist run America. I am sick to death of hearing "America is a savior of human rights...liberator...and a free FUCKIN country." In reality its so far from the truth. Hey, they kicked my Iranian friend out of the US because he was Arab, but they didn't happen to notice that his family was living there for at least 5 yrs. Duhhhhhhh.....

...oh, yeah...and I loved the part when those dumb ass fighter American pilots who killed the (Princess Patrisha) Canadian light infanty unit men....they said "we are sorry".
Yeah....thanks USA. KAAABOOOM to you too. What, you train undisciplined, trigger happy misfits to fly your aircraft.
Some allies....
After that you slapped a FUCKING tariff on our lumber. Oh good...thanks again. :(

(Edited by ID2002 at 8:18 am on Jan. 24, 2003)

[Invader Zim]

No ID2002 dont say such nasty things CI may learn the truth. :P

[j]

This is what I wrote on the first page of the thread:

--How can one be termed "disloyal" or "insubordinate" for expressing views that oppose the US government? The words from the act are "shall willfully utter, print, write, or publish any disloyal, profane, scurrilous, or abusive language about the form of government of the United States" Notice how it says FORM of government of the United States, not "THE government of the United States." That means these "vermin" and "scum" who are protesting war in Iraq are exercising their first ammendment right. They are not in violation of anything!! --

This ends ANYONE's debate. The same people who call anti-war protesters un-american are the same people who called the civil rights movement un-american.

j

[Arkham]

Clearly its the same old tactic as "Love it or Leave it", a sophomoric retort when someone has no answer to a complaint. They simply cannot imagine that someone would have the wherewithall to stay and defend something, and work constructively to change it, and in addition, have no answer to the activists' concerns, so they just bluster, and yell "Yeah, well, if you don't like 'merica, why don't you just move to Canada, or Russia, or one of them communist countries anyway."

It shows a lack of ability to have a dialogue, and a complete lack of respect for any iota of freedom left in the US.

[canikickit]

You are right in assumming that not all Arab Muslims represent what we consider to be extreme elements of that culture, but it is dishonest to depict them as a small minority.

I didn't "assume" anything. How many people do you consider to be members of the extreme element? 250 million? I think it is luracris to suggest that an entire religion is dominated by "extreme elements".

The reason I called you racist is you firstly said "Allah U Akbar" was "anti-American". Then your next statement was "Freedom of speech does not guarantee the right to plot against the government or associate with terrorist organizations that we are at war with."

The natural interpretation of this is: Muslims are bad.

I'll put down my bong when you express yourself a little better.


White hippies also engaged in the chanting this weekend, so your claim that I am basing my criticism on race is false

What are you referring to?
I presume there was some event where people were chanting "Allah U Akbar", and you were not referring to general events. I didn't realise you were referring to specific events, I guess that goes back to your lack of proper expression.

"Nigeria (in Africa)"


It was the US who scored low on the Geographic literacy. You don't need to tell me that.

[Stormin Norman]

What are you referring to?
I presume there was some event where people were chanting "Allah U Akbar", and you were not referring to general events. I didn't realise you were referring to specific events, I guess that goes back to your lack of proper expression.

There you go again, trying to blaim your short attention span, and failure to read what I have written on my "lack of proper expression". I have already demonstrated exactly how International ANSWER, the WWP, and the other protestors attempt to undermine our military and government institutions. The specific events surrounding the chanting of "Allah U Akbar" at the peace protest, and the terrorism associated with that chant were clearly layed out, by me, in this thread. You overlooked them and then blaim your ignorance on me. How funny.

[Eastside Revolt]

Quote: from Stormin Norman on 10:06 pm on Jan. 25, 2003

.

There you go again, trying to blaim your short attention span, and failure to read what I have written on my "lack of proper expression". You overlooked them and then blaim your ignorance on me. How funny.

Who in their right mind could possibly read more than two lines of any shpeil you post. If I wanna here your point of view, all I have to do is turn on CNN.

[Umoja]

Norman,

"Anti-Americanism" is something that is beneficial to our country. It makes people constantly remember we aren't their yet. MLK was "anti-American" that helped us.

[canikickit]

Norm, you're right. You did.

However, chanting "Allah U Akbar" is not "un-American". I also don't think people are associating themselves with those movments neccessarily (maybe in minds as small as yours). I believe they are associating themselves with the innocents who's lives will be lost in the inevitable war.

As a matter of fact, Norm, I felt your racism shone stronger on the post in which you referred to the chanting of "Allah U Akbar". It goes back to what I was saying, there are more innocent muslims than evil, vicious, murdering ones. The same with Catholics, Protestants, Calvinists, Satanist, atheists and people with black skin.


Only by directly confronting these jobless losers can we take back the microphone and beat them in the rhetorical arena. It is time we drive these worms back into the bowels of the earth, where they belong.



You're a dickhead. "Jobless losers" what about the losers with jobs? And the winners who are currently unemployed? Even those few who both work and win at the same time? You see, there you go, alienating minorities again.

[canikickit]

The Imam then led the crowd -- are you ready for this -- in the chant the suicide bombers use as they blow up innocent men, women and children -- Allahu Ahkbar! Allahu Ahkbar! Allahu Akhbar!"

It is also the chant Muslims use as they pray, I believe. Do you think people should stop paying attention to the Ten Commandments because there are christian organisations in Africa killing people?

[Eastside Revolt]

Quote: from AK47 on 10:34 pm on Jan. 23, 2003
"We must cleanse the anti-American vermin"

Ohh well their goes the rest of the world then. Imagin that only the US people left.