Rich Charity

[Pogue]

How should we, as leftists, respond to the actions of people like Bill Gates, people who are immensely rich but also give alot away to charity?

[gla22]

Most of Bill gates "charity" goes to firms in other countries that exploit as well. He is hardly a good person. Would someone classifying his workers as "independent assessors" or whatever so he wouldn't have to give them health insurance really that interesten in humanity.

[BIG BROTHER]

Plus let us not forget that he is giving away money that has been stolen from the workers labor. And plus he's no different than you or I when we give someone a spare dollar.


btw wouldn't it be better if this post went in the learning section?

[Holden Caulfield]

i wrote a piece for psychology about why the upper classes often turn to charities and other concerns, such as environmentalism as a way to try and self actualize. As the normal self actualization process is hindered by the pre-conscious knowledge that they themselves are part of the problem rather than part of the cure, to the worlds ills.

this goes for the likes of Bill Gates, and those who shop in M&S organic sections.

if they really did care they would make drastic changes to their own companies and lives rather than use charity as a way to appease their repressed social conscience

[Dean]

i wrote a piece for psychology about why the upper classes often turn to charities and other concerns, such as environmentalism as a way to try and self actualize. As the normal self actualization process is hindered by the pre-conscious knowledge that they themselves are part of the problem rather than part of the cure, to the worlds ills.

this goes for the likes of Bill Gates, and those who shop in M&S organic sections.

if they really did care they would make drastic changes to their own companies and lives rather than use charity as a way to appease their repressed social conscience

Interesting. I never looked at it quite this way before.

[Holden Caulfield]

Interesting. I never looked at it quite this way before.

my psychology teacher wasn't too pleased with it, A level psychology is intellectually opressive and just wants its students to vomit facts over endless 12 mark essays...

[Decolonize The Left]

How should we, as leftists, respond to the actions of people like Bill Gates, people who are immensely rich but also give alot away to charity?

I think josefrancisco summed it up quite well:

Plus let us not forget that he is giving away money that has been stolen from the workers labor. And plus he's no different than you or I when we give someone a spare dollar.

Indeed, the volume of money donated is a side issue to the fact that one is making a donation to charity. We can dive into the debate of whether or not he 'really means it,' or whatever, but this will inevitably lead to speculation. In the end, there's one simple argument:
This charity money was derived from the mass exploitation of many, many workers - so we have no business applauding what the capitalist class may do with their 'profits.'

- August

[Decolonize The Left]

my psychology teacher wasn't too pleased with it, A level psychology is intellectually opressive and just wants its students to vomit facts over endless 12 mark essays...

Teachers rarely openly applaud those students who actually have novel ideas, especially when they run against the grain - though secretly inside they love them. You are loved secretly. :D

- August

[Holden Caulfield]

Teachers rarely openly applaud those students who actually have novel ideas, especially when they run against the grain - though secretly inside they love them. You are loved secretly. :D


your not my psychology teacher are you?
:lol:

[Sir Comradical]

Jesus once pointed out that a small coin donated by the poor woman was worth a lot more than the large amounts of money donated by the wealthy...same thing here. He gives money to charity because he can easily afford to do so. I'm not going to make any judgements about him as a person because he doesn't seem to be the greedy, Gordon Gecko type...but the corporate institution itself allows for obscene profits and inquality.

[Holden Caulfield]

Jesus once pointed out that a small coin donated by the poor woman was worth a lot more than the large amounts of money donated by the wealthy...same thing here. He gives money to charity because he can easily afford to do so. I'm not going to make any judgements about him as a person because he doesn't seem to be the greedy, Gordon Gecko type...but the corporate institution itself allows for obscene profits and inquality.


a fair point, but his money is money gained from charging more than he need for his products and paying less than he can for his workers. His money is stolen basically, from his own customers and workers,

he probably isn't an 'evil' man i agree, but he is in an evil system so he is nothing to look up to,

[#FF0000]

i wrote a piece for psychology about why the upper classes often turn to charities and other concerns, such as environmentalism as a way to try and self actualize. As the normal self actualization process is hindered by the pre-conscious knowledge that they themselves are part of the problem rather than part of the cure, to the worlds ills.

this goes for the likes of Bill Gates, and those who shop in M&S organic sections.

if they really did care they would make drastic changes to their own companies and lives rather than use charity as a way to appease their repressed social conscience

This. I would have said "guilt" instead of "self-actualization", but that's because I ain't got none of that fancy college school book learnin'.

In any case, donating to charity, at the very least, speaks well for whoever donates so long as they don't hire a PR team to tell everyone about it. The rich who donate are most likely decent people in my book for at least wanting to make things better. It's unfortunate that capitalism makes most charity a token gesture in the grand scheme of things. Sort of like giving moisturizing lotion to a leper.

[Sir Comradical]

a fair point, but his money is money gained from charging more than he need for his products and paying less than he can for his workers. His money is stolen basically, from his own customers and workers,

he probably isn't an 'evil' man i agree, but he is in an evil system so he is nothing to look up to,

As far as i know he designed software which is no way near as exploitative as say, a mining enterprise for resources which is ALWAYS exploitative. Yes it's true by definition that he payed his workers less than the value they created but his charitable works are beneficial to many people in the poorest of circumstances. I'm not disagreeing with you, because i think there's an unfortunate dichotomy at play here. We see the injustice of:

1) The corporate model which allows for economies of scale making competition difficult.

2) Patent/copyright laws which gave microsoft a monopoly putting other small firms out of business.

3) Paying microsoft workers less than the value they produce (even though their wages may be above average).

4) Corporate tax concessions while wage slaves have to pay their 'fair share', ohh and we don't have swiss banks either.

etc.

But within the system, it's difficult to criticize the man because he's an exemplary moral figure according to the laws of capital accumation. So really it's the system that predisposes humanity to extreme inequalities that we should be annoyed with. Afterall I'm quite certain that Bill Gates is a decent human being like the rest of us...

[Hyacinth]

I think our response, beyond what some members have already mentioned about the money gained by these wealthy individuals being through exploitation, should also be to call for the abolition of the very conditions which make charity necessary. Charity, contrary to what it touted by many, isn’t a good thing; rather, instead, that there is a need for it in the first place exposes a terrible flaw in the market system. It is, in some sense, necessary under capitalism in order to offset the terrible social injustices and conditions wrought by capitalism itself, but philanthropists have made a virtue out of a necessity.

All this is meant to be a criticism of the institution of charity, not necessarily those who participate in it. On a whole Bill Gates, for instance, is doing a lot of good, but his efforts are misplaces: rather than trying to offset the negative consequences of capitalism by charity, thereby putting a proverbial band-aid on things, people should be trying to address are the systematic causes of things like poverty, starvation, exploitation, etc. (i.e. capitalism).

[Vanguard1917]

Marxists are opposed to charity-mongering, and we expose the fact that when the rich engage in charity-mongering, it's because it's in their self-interests to.

[Sir Comradical]

I think our response, beyond what some members have already mentioned about the money gained by these wealthy individuals being through exploitation, should also be to call for the abolition of the very conditions which make charity necessary. Charity, contrary to what it touted by many, isn’t a good thing; rather, instead, that there is a need for it in the first place exposes a terrible flaw in the market system. It is, in some sense, necessary under capitalism in order to offset the terrible social injustices and conditions wrought by capitalism itself, but philanthropists have made a virtue out of a necessity.

All this is meant to be a criticism of the institution of charity, not necessarily those who participate in it. On a whole Bill Gates, for instance, is doing a lot of good, but his efforts are misplaces: rather than trying to offset the negative consequences of capitalism by charity, thereby putting a proverbial band-aid on things, people should be trying to address are the systematic causes of things like poverty, starvation, exploitation, etc. (i.e. capitalism).

well said.