Is Anyone Here Anti-Europe?

[Ghost]

Is there anyone here except me who thinks that the EU is turning into a beurocratic superstate who really has no other interests but to have power over those in it?

[Invader Zim]

yep. I think that the Euro is a good idea for the UK, but the EU is so damn annoying. They always give all their money to places like spain and ignor the starving and homeless in Britain just because we have not joined the Euro yet.

[Ghost]

It's probably no suprise to you that I am completely anti-euro as well.

[Invader Zim]

Yes but you are anti euro because of pride for are nation. I am anti EU not the Euro which has many benefits to this country and its people. But it will be a sod losing the pound.

Out of intrest are you a cappie are you. Not that i have a problem if you are your entitled to your opinion, but if so why?

[Capitalist Imperial]

I am concerned about the emerging anti-American sentiment coming from europe nowadays.

I believe that, especially in the last 100 years, that the USA has done countless things for europe, including our involvement in WWI, and our leadership in WWII (even while we fought japan in the pacific), and even after those wars we over we significantly contributed to the rebuilding of europe.

Then, for 50 years we protected Western Europe from the dictatorial,oppressive Soviet Empire during the cold war, eventually causing its collapse and ensuring liberty for many years to come. We have also provided europe with viable trade relations for decades.

Now that the cold war is over, many europeans can sit in relative safety and security, but criticize american culture and american policy.

Have europeans forgot how much america has done for them, and that there may not even be a europe as we know it today without the USA?

[mentalbunny]

Ghost, you don't happen to be a memeber for the UK Independence party do you? We had a guy come to school to talk about it once, and he was saying how bad the EU was, he didn't have a brain, he was just spewing out all the stuff people had told him to say so I had no respect for him.

However I am worried about the direciton the EU is taking, I thought it would go to the left but it hasn't, it's just a bureaucratic mess and I really hate all its petty little rules about "safety at work" and suchlike, most of them are completely pointless!


Oh and CI, I don't think it valid to say that we all have to adore the US and never ever critisise it just because it helped us, when it couldn't really avoid helping us as it was in it's own best interest. You cannot expect us to love US policy, as frankly, US policy stinks.

(Edited by mentalbunny at 8:18 pm on Jan. 10, 2003)

[Don Amodeo]

The truth is, we here in Europe always go for the little guy, unless we have to go to war over it. Its a sad fact. But really, most people love american culture, just not the government. Now, the problem comes when its wartime. We were all happy to be freed from the fascists in the second world war, but many don't want to spend money or send troops in these economic times to other countries who are going through the same thing Europe went through in the 30s and 40s. Also, we all hate our governments here, so don't feel bad that many hate the americans government.

[Show me the Money]

Having an economic unity is good for inter(-euro-)national balance... and altough i don't think we suffer of a too bureaucratic EU-government, but the EU-ministers and governing body's are just too powerful and have no feeling (nor interest) for what the people really want.

[Show me the Money]

...and as the EU grows, this misuse of power will only get worse.

[Show me the Money]

And to make things even worse... siggies are getting more expensive TOO!!!

[Ghost]

OK, to answer your questions:

Not accepting the euro because of national pride is only one reason. It is a weak and unstable currency becasue every economy in europe is different.

I am not anti-American. In fact, I would like to get a second house there one day.

I am not a member of the UK independance party. They are too right wing for me. I am right wing, but very much towards the middle. I am a reasonable person who believes in moderation. If there is any party I would join, it would be the Conservatives.



I agree that as the EU grows, the abuse of power will get worse, because none of these "ministers" are directly elected through a democracy.

We do have to thank the USA for a little help during the world wars, but I also believe that we would have won them anyway, it just would have taken a little bit longer.

But the USA has to thank Great Britain for creating them in the first placce! ;)

[Capitalist Imperial]

Quote: from Ghost on 10:10 pm on Jan. 10, 2003
OK, to answer your questions:

Not accepting the euro because of national pride is only one reason. It is a weak and unstable currency becasue every economy in europe is different.

I am not anti-American. In fact, I would like to get a second house there one day.

I am not a member of the UK independance party. They are too right wing for me. I am right wing, but very much towards the middle. I am a reasonable person who believes in moderation. If there is any party I would join, it would be the Conservatives.



I agree that as the EU grows, the abuse of power will get worse, because none of these "ministers" are directly elected through a democracy.

We do have to thank the USA for a little help during the world wars, but I also believe that we would have won them anyway, it just would have taken a little bit longer.

But the USA has to thank Great Britain for creating them in the first placce! ;)

Ghost, are you a homeowner in england?

[Anonymous]

ahhhhhh Europe, the empire wich capital is maastrich and the aim is corporate capitalism....


fuck it...

[Anonymous]

Shall i be the only one pro-Europe?

Personally i think the creation fo the European State is a natural progression of the work done previously in the world. (unification of provinces into countries). Im not too happy about its current state but i blame that partly on apathy, if effort was made to interest the masses in the polic adn situation in Europe i feel the governing body would feel more pressure to dump beurocracy and start working. Damn, this is rambling.

[Moskitto]

he is a friend of mine,

[redstarshining]

I find it disturbing to see so much political power concentrated in the hands of such a few people ( the European Council ). Even if the European Parliament had as much power as an "ordinary" parliament, it would still make it much harder for any left wing party to achieve something.

I don't see any leftwing party that could afford a pan european election campaign, which will most likely make the big parties even stronger ( e.g. Christian Democrats, currently spreading like a desease all over Europe... they just opened up a new "branch" in France ). The direction Europe is currently heading for is the far right. Aznar, Benito Berlousconi, Haider and friends, the racist danish government, and of course all the goverments of the so-called political "center", all just neo-liberalists who look a bit less fat and hateful than their conservative counterparts; those will be the overloards over this new empire.

We will probably see a united Europe in the future, but certainly no united left, at least not in the near future.
Politics is all about information warfare. Representative Democracy + private media = oppression. By expanding the EU they are basically just expanding a system of oppression, and reducing leftwing influence on the masses.

Then there is of course the economic factor. Economic growth in Europe is decreasing, therefore capitalism tries to annex new markets. The people in eastern Europe will be the big losers in this game, at least if they dont start to elect democratic governments. The polish agricultural sector will be crushed. As soon as european capitalism has taken over these new markets, the EU will get a lot of cheap labour from there. Of course, nobody from Poland will be free to chose where to live in the EU for the next seven years ( and I doubt very much that they will in the future ).
But not only eastern Europe, all working class people all over Europe will be "liberated" and "unified".

I don't want another empire!

[mentalbunny]

Funky Monk, I am actually pro-Europe in theory but so far it has been very disappointing. There is much more we can do united, but the EC is currently too bureaucratic and too busy putting silly little rules about various things and giving some countries the advatnages of the EU without them even joining so they do not get the disadvantages.

I think there is nothing wrong with a European superstate, in fact then it will be strong enough to make up it's own mind and the UK will not instantly agree with every little thing the US says, but at the moment it looks like the future is pretty bleak. i fear it will get much worse beofre it gets better...

I can well imagine that a superstate will emerge and it will move further and further right until the general public lose it and overthrow the governing elite. I wish I could not see it but at least it means that some day there will be a revolution, if not for a few generations.

[Anonymous]

You'll just have to wait till im PM.

WE'll just have to hope for no major international arguments. Lets face it, the current youth of England is pretty xenophobic which means that they arent going to support a move to join Europe in their lifetimes, maybe, if a lot of groundwork is done and there isnt something to really turn them against Europe the future might be brighter.

[Invader Zim]

Quote: from Moskitto on 1:32 pm on Jan. 11, 2003
he is a friend of mine,


Me to, we go to the same school me moskitto and Ghost.

[Smoking Frog II]

Quote: from AK47 on 6:35 pm on Jan. 10, 2003
yep. I think that the Euro is a good idea for the UK


Fuck the Euro. Fuck the Euro Fuck the Euro.

[Anonymous]

the euro was made to ease notonly the economical/political power of thebigest countrys (france, germany, england)on the litle ones, make thingseasyer for european labels, and propagate free trade, and consumism amongst europe, it has nothing good, maby aproper union couldbe good, but not this one, no, a maastrich centred burguase control does not benefits us.. only the oposite...

only a proletariat allience amongst all workers of the world could work, not a elitist allience of the rich....