Aggravation of class struggle?

[Die Neue Zeit]

So far, part of my work-in-progress (WIP) ending is as follows:

During this future revolutionary epoch, undoubtedly the ruling bourgeoisie will tremble at the impending social-proletocratic revolution and at their subsequent, complete abolition.

However, I've had a discussion with other RevLefters in regards to the post-revolution aggravation of the class struggle. The key idea here is that, unlike typical class domination, class aggravation results in the elimination of at least one non-ruling class. For example (and correct me if I'm wrong here), the bourgeoisie aggravated their class struggles against the various aristocracies (sometimes by beheadings, others by mere economic pressure).

I've also been called out for my controversial opinion on this (and have been persuaded by others not to detail this opinion in my WIP). Nevertheless, here is what Lenin said on the matter:

Having overthrown the bourgeoisie and conquered political power, the proletariat has become the ruling class [...] it guides the wavering and intermediary elements and classes; it crushes the increasingly stubborn resistance of the exploiters. (http://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1919/oct/30.htm)

Now, for other quarters of this board, the phrase "aggravation of the class struggle" is merely a cover for needless purges; this expressed as a concern even by Maoists (http://www.revleft.com/vb/mao-t83466/index.html) ("anti-revisionist" folks are welcome to debate each other here on how to properly apply this "aggravation" :D ).

Thoughts?



P.S. - So far, I've lengthened my WIP stuff above to say "at their subsequent, complete abolition resulting from the transitional aggravation of der klassenkampf" - using German intentionally for those last words (for political incorrectness and to address far-right working-class scapegoating of immigrants and what not - perhaps such German usage above would swing them the other way http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/images/smilies/hitler.gif ).

[BobKKKindle$]

Lenin clearly recognized that the conquest of power by the proletarian vanguard does not eliminate class struggle, but creates a new dimension of class struggle, in the form of prolonged armed conflict between the forces of the proletarian state, and the armed forces of other capitalist states (in the absence of international revolution) and the remnants of the national ruling class. This dimension of class struggle poses the need to create a proletarian military, to defend the gains of the social revolution against attempts to restore capitalism by force, and assist revolutionary forces in other states where the potential for the overthrow of capitalism exists.

In addition to armed conflict, class struggle also exists in an ideological form, as capitalist ideas continue to persist even when the proletarian vanguard has taken power and the means of communication are subject to proletarian control.

An Essential Condition of the Bolsheviks' Success, Left Wing Communism: an Infantile Disorder (http://www.marx.org/archive/lenin/works/1920/lwc/ch02.htm)


The dictatorship of the proletariat means a most determined and most ruthless war waged by the new class against a more powerful enemy, the bourgeoisie, whose resistance is increased tenfold by their overthrow (even if only in a single country), and whose power lies, not only in the strength of international capital, the strength and durability of their international connections, but also in the force of habit, in the strength of small-scale production. Unfortunately, small-scale production is still widespread in the world, and small-scale production engenders capitalism and the bourgeoisie continuously, daily, hourly, spontaneously, and on a mass scale. All these reasons make the dictatorship of the proletariat necessary, and victory over the bourgeoisie is impossible without a long, stubborn and desperate life-and-death struggle which calls for tenacity, discipline, and a single and inflexible will.

[Die Neue Zeit]

^^^ But what of "the remnants of the national ruling class"?

[Dros]

Aggravation of class struggle under socialism?

Aren't you wandering dangerously close to Stalinism my friend?:D

But I jest.

I would refrain from using the word "undoubtedly" because it sounds like you are taking the determinist position that this is inevitable or taking the equally unscientific "crystal ball" approach.

[Tower of Bebel]

Aggravation of class struggle under socialism?

Aren't you wandering dangerously close to Stalinism my friend?:D

I don't think so because he's talking about a post-revolutionary aggravation (after the conquest of power), not an aggravation under socialism.

[Die Neue Zeit]

^^^ Correct, Comrade Rakunin:


Aggravation of class struggle under socialism?

Aren't you wandering dangerously close to Stalinism my friend?:D

As I said in here (http://www.revleft.com/vb/marxism-leninism-anti-t73258/index.html):


"Non-antagonistic" classes, or "aggravation of the class struggle under socialism" (the latter is mistaken in terms of the mode of production, but that's a discussion topic for another time)? Nobody can have it both ways.

This is because full social proletocracy - with only the social-proletocratic and gift economies - is a monoclass society (with the proletariat still having to abolish itself).

Now:


I would refrain from using the word "undoubtedly" because it sounds like you are taking the determinist position that this is inevitable or taking the equally unscientific "crystal ball" approach.

I wasn't referring to the "inevitably" of revolution, contrary to the "apocalyptic predestinationism" infecting Kautsky (his particular centrism), Trotsky (transitional program resulting from "the death agony of capitalism"), and even Stalin (SIOC). I was referring to a state of fear on the part of the cornered bourgeoisie.

Anyway, thanks for your stuff (both you and Comrade Rakunin), but how about my politically incorrect usage of German?

[Led Zeppelin]

I wasn't referring to the "inevitably" of revolution, contrary to the "apocalyptic predestinationism" infecting Kautsky (his particular centrism), Trotsky (transitional program resulting from "the death agony of capitalism")

Have you read anything by Trotsky besides the transitional program? Actually, have you read the transitional program?

Trotsky did not believe that it was "inevitable" for proletarian revolution to occur, in fact he said that it was entirely possible that it would not happen if society developed in a certain way that was not foreseen, and that a new political programme would be necessary if that was the case.

He only said that it was "inevitable" in certain polemics and in certain speeches for propaganda and "bending the stick the other way" purposes, just as Lenin and many others did, yet I don't see you slagging on them for it.

[Die Neue Zeit]

^^^ I think this response of yours would be better placed in my "Program of a New Type" chapter section. You said you would respond to that. ;)

[Led Zeppelin]

Ok, I posted it there as well: Link (http://www.revleft.com/vb/showpost.php?p=1196661&postcount=2)

[Tower of Bebel]

The key idea here is that, unlike typical class domination, class aggravation results in the elimination of at least one non-ruling class. Which depends on the outcome of the conflict. When aggravation of class struggle results in severe bourgeois reaction it will result in the oppression of the working class by the victorious bourgeoisie (and of course the bourgeoisie cannot eliminate the proletariat) ;).

Btw, I don't know what the German language has to do with the far-right, immigrants and something that's politicaly incorrect?!? (btw, "Klassenkampf", I think, needs a dativ (of [the] class struggle would be... "of" [= von] "dem Klassenkampf") and the first letter must be a capital letter :tt2:)

[Die Neue Zeit]

Admins, please do NOT move this thread into Theory after two weeks - for security reasons.

Comrade Rakunin: Well, a RevLeft comrade chatted with me about this, and the first thing that came to him when I used German here was the title of the "Nazi bible." This is deliberate, because emotional folks on the revolutionary left want bad things to happen to the ousted exploiters after the revolution (for all their exploitation, class suppression, etc.). Lots of working-class far-rightists are where they are simply because they think we're peaceniks regarding the "Jewish capitalists" (and foreign capitalists in general), even if they tolerate "patriotic"/native capitalists.

When coupled together, "aggravation" and the German phrase for "the class struggle" are meant to sound terrifying to bourgeois readers and emotionally satisfying for emotional rev-leftists who hate the bourgeoisie.