Sharon needs to go

[American Kid]

So I log on just now and I read that there's been another blast in Tel Aviv and 15 people were killed.

Now, we all know what's going to happen next.

Dude's going to send Israeli troops into Palestinian villages, trigger-happy and seeking vegeance, and they're going to find a "militant" and kill him, possibly taking out a few dozen civillians in the process. Which, lately, has been their average.

(also, it's worth pointing out I guarantee this will be front page news on the New York Post. Meanwhile, after the Israeli soldiers kill a few kids accidently looking for "Habib the terrorist", the place you're sure to find that info is somewhere around page six or seven)

The Palestinian's will want to take vegeance for their buddy (ies) who get killed, and send another dissillusioned 19 year old on a bus with explosives strapped to his belt.

What Israel needs right now is a leader who is willing to swallow the...."pain" and "outrage" of the whole situation, and take the high road and decide it's time to recitify things and solve the bigger problem. Not squabble about chipping away chasing singular "militants" rolling tanks down the hill.

There's a much bigger issue here. And it's complicated. And I'm not surprised at all that Sharon is so fucked up over it. What do you do in this situation? Who's land is it? Should they live together? Should they create a seperate state? What are going to be the consequences of these descisions? Who's going to go along with them? Who won't?

It's fucked up. Honestly I pity Sharon. I empathize with the anger in him over what's happening to his civillians. There are difficult descisions he has to make. And it looks like he's making the wrong ones. Look at what happened today.

And in a way I don't blame him for hiding behind his tanks.

In my opinion, he's much too hawkish. He's the wrong man in the wrong time.

-AK

[Hayduke]

I agree AK its a total mess there, I dont even look suprised when people blow themself up there.

But even if there came a leader, that wants to stop it, you think that the people would agree with this ?

If you are willing to blow yourself up for the cause, would you settle with an agreement to " live together " ?

[Moskitto]

just have a country where anyone can live,

[Panamarisen]

The actual situation in the Middle East needs a WILL to be changed to a better one. Sharon doesn´t. Sharon is not as politically clever and/or historically clever to do it.
And, worst of all, he despises Palestinians. They are not even human beings in his opinion, thus he dosen´t NEED to even THINK for a solution. The same thing happened with the several U$ Governments and the Vietnamese peasants: these weren´t human enough as to consider the least kind of justice, or even compassion (quite different from pity) towards them. At least, the Vietnamese won the fucking war at the end...

The whole U$ watches on TV the massacre. Every day. The whole U$ watches how little children get killed because of U$-supported Israeli Army (maybe little Palestinian children are REALLY DANGEROUS). Well, THIS IS A SHAMELESS SITUATION!!!

But Sharon is not there to stay. For sure.

HASTA LA VICTORIA SIEMPRE!

[SonofRage]

He's a war criminal and a disgrace.

(Edited by SonofRage at 3:57 am on Jan. 6, 2003)

[American Kid]

Maybe they should just put up a wall.

I'm being perfectly serious. Let them age a generation or two, til they're left standing around wondering what all the fuss was about?

-AK

[Non-Sectarian Bastard!]

They are already building a wall. But the zionists are colonising. The Israeli's can cross the line, but when a Palestinian crosses. He is immediatly dangerous. And gets shot.

(Edited by CCCP at 5:10 pm on Jan. 6, 2003)

[Capitalist Imperial]

I must deviate from my more moderate capitalist ally AK here.

Sharon is fighting these terrorists the only way you can, he's bringing the fight to them. The palestinians must learn that violence against civilians is no way to further this kind of agenda (A dedicated palestinian state).

As the most benevolent nation in the middle east, Israel has a right to protect its sovereignty and it people.

Sharon did not start this extended melee, the Palestinians did, lets not forget this. Therefore, the burden is on the palestinians with respect to ending the violence, as israel's action is merely a reaction, not initiation.

(Edited by Capitalist Imperial at 7:03 pm on Jan. 6, 2003)

[antieverything]

Well over 2 times as many Palestinians have died than Israelis...the Palestinians know what it is to suffer. You only get suicide bombers out of environments of desparation.

Problem is, every bomb blast moves Israels politics toward the kill em all mentality and the same goes for every Israeli strike. What we need is a new Palestinian leader to replace Araffat and his terrorist PLO and for us to get the word out about what is going on. When the Palestinians start using nonviolent resistance, the struggle will be won but that won't be possible unless there is anyone who will care to report it.

[Goldfinger]

Everyone using force in the middle east are against peace, even if they think they fight for it.

[Guest]

Quote: from Capitalist Imperial on 6:59 pm on Jan. 6, 2003
I must deviate from my more moderate capitalist ally AK here.

Sharon is fighting these terrorists the only way you can, he's bringing the fight to them. The palestinians must learn that violence against civilians is no way to further this kind of agenda (A dedicated palestinian state).

As the most benevolent nation in the middle east, Israel has a right to protect its sovereignty and it people.

Sharon did not start this extended melee, the Palestinians did, lets not forget this. Therefore, the burden is on the palestinians with respect to ending the violence, as israel's action is merely a reaction, not initiation.

(Edited by Capitalist Imperial at 7:03 pm on Jan. 6, 2003)


Oh? So their "fighting terrorism" by mass genocide? The only reason the suicide bombers exist is because your nazi-piece-of-shit butt buddy Sharon killed off their family, their pride and their hope by doing exactly what he is doing now, KILLING CIVILLIANS. The suicide bombers are NOT part of the official Palestinian force and the OFFICIAL Israelite force is killing civillians. And the Israelites have very well used terrorism too (are we forgetting the STERN GANG and the IRGUN ZVAI LEUMI?) The very fact that you fascist israelite-supporters call the palestinians "terrirists" is hypocritical by all means. And even if it wasn't, the Israelites kicked the Palestinians out of their homes and are treating them like second-class citizens in THEIR OWN LAND. Just because a genocide was attempted on their race dosen't give them the right to do the same thing to another one.

[Umoja]

Something interesting I noticed in the bombed out ruins of many Palesinian cities is the graffitti. I have always wondered what it says.

Israel has broken more UN resolutions then Iraq, and has killed more civilians then Palestine. They have taken land illegally, and for most intents and purposes are a rouge state. To support Israel isn't to support Capitalism, isn't to support conservatism, it's to support a religiously based bueracracy that has a strong form of Apartheid. Now, unless you liked Apartheid South Africa, I'm sure even you have some compassion for human life.

[SonofRage]

...
As the most benevolent nation in the middle east...


I'd never thought anyone would call Israel "benevolent."

[Mazdak]

Yes, the situation in Palestine is despicable. I cannot wait, however till a PLO freedom fighter takes out that waste of space Wailing wall. That thing needs to go. If they did that, they would strike right at the heart of the Israelis and religious jews everywhere. It would be just beatiful.

On the other hand, that black meteorite in Mecca should be blown out of the ground as well. Both religions would be significantly weakened with such major relics destroyed. It would have an affect on the situation in occupied Palestine.

[ColDFirE]

Sharon's army go against 4 palestians with AKs with 2 helicopters and destroly a half village. And the world says notthing against it.
Anyway Sharon gets his army from the US and while there is Iraq and North Korea the US will keep Israel his ally. They don't care abaut how many people die if is't far away. If it gets too close they go in (Yugoslavia).

[HankMorgan]

I don't like to see weapons of war used against civilians anymore than I like to see a sedan full of explosives detonated beside a bus. Both are wrong.

That being said, the Palestinians are pursuing a course that cannot work. The Palestinians believe if enough buses are blown up the Israelis will decide to leave Israel/Palestine. Does anybody frequenting this site believe that will happen? Anybody, from the left or the right believe the Israeli's will just up and leave? It's not going to happen. Not only is it wrong to blow up buses, it's not even going work.

I don't think separate nations will work either. I'm an American, an optimist who sees one nation where it makes no difference if a citizen follows Mohummad or is a Jew. A nation of equal opportunity for the people of both faiths. A nation where people of both faiths can safely walk the streets of their capital, Jerusalem.

Arafat acts, Sharon reacts. Both have got to go.

[Raztro]

people, stop generalizing.. i hate to come here and see ppl talk about palestinians as suicide bombers. i am a palestinian and i believe in peace. There are good people on both sides. The problem is in the leadership.

[ColDFirE]

right Raztro, the biggest problem is the leadership.

[Capitalist Imperial]

Exactly, the leadership of yassir arafat and the PLO!!!

(Edited by Capitalist Imperial at 6:54 pm on Jan. 7, 2003)

[Raztro]

Quote: from Capitalist Imperial on 6:53 pm on Jan. 7, 2003
Exactly, the leadership of yassir arafat and the PLO!!!

Yes, Arafat and Sharon i meant...Not just Sharon...

[new democracy]

CI, do you actually mean any of your idiotic posts or just trying to annoy us? did you know that in the passing year the government enforced a law that gives the government an authority to create areas where only Jwes can live? that means that arabs can't live in those specific areas, even if they have israeli citizenship! and now the authorities try to ban the arab parties from participating in the elections! that's unofficial apartheid! although the PLO and Arafat does neet to go, i think that Sharon is the main problem.

[El Brujo]

Israel compares perfectly to apartheid South Africa. The imperialists that don't belong there in the first place (whites/jews) forcefully took over the land, treat the natives (blacks/palestinians) as second-class citizens in their own land, use racial profiling and don't allow them to participate in elections. And the yankees have the nerve to call it a "democracy". Its a fascist state disguised as a democracy, the way the yankees love it. That's why pacifism dosen't work.

[new democracy]

About the Palestinian leadership, although he have little support, the leader of the DFLP(Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine), Nayif Huwatme, is the best. He does advocate armed struggle, but only inside the occupied territories, and only against the IDF and the settlers. He is not some crazy violent despot like Arafat, and not some defeatist pacifist like the more strong leades that try to replace Arafat. And he is also on the left.

[mentalbunny]

Someone must sort out the Middle East, I think the idea of a wall might work. The Palestinians need their own land where they can be safe, but they must also realise that suicide bombings don't help, they really do not earn any brownie points by blowing up school buses, but they don't seem to know this.

Obviously the Isrealis have killed more people, but that's because they can, you have to admit that the Palestinians would do the same in that position.

We seem to be forgetting that it is the Uk and US's faults that the situation is like this. After the war they were interfering with everything and when they gave up then the Jews flooded in, taking as much land as they could. It would have been mich simpler if we could have split the land then, into two provinces, or two countires if necesary. We cannot deny that both races ahve claims to the land, they must just learn to acknowledge each other's claims and live in peace. I think a wall would be the best way to do it.

Also Sharon doesn't have much respect from the UK but Bush supports him because of the Jews and Christians in the US. You know there are loads of Zionists who are supporting Sharon because they believe they can convert all the jews once they've got rid of the Palestinians.

[RGacky3]

I agree with AK, sharon must go, he says that Arafat is the obstical to peace, Sharon is making everything an obsticle to peace by refusing to restrain himself from killing every one!!!

[Umoja]

So, if the Boers were called Afrikaans, what should we call Israelis? Palikaans? Sorry, couldn't resist.