The dollar and Gulf War II - What sets the price of oil toda

[Larissa]

What sets the price of oil today?

My answer is that the single biggest influence on the world price of oil is the impression of the different OPEC producers have of how far they can raise prices before the US will take actions to destroy their respective countries - whether through war (US vs Iraq), economic sabotage, poitical blackmail or whatever.

The lines are elastic, but they stretch only to a limit. They are not just economic (including illegal and unfair practices), they are also based on the US's military power. The US calls this "national interests".

[Moskitto]

OPEC does not set oil prices,

[Capitalist Imperial]

Larissa, you are painting america as much more aggressive that it really is. If we wert to War over every oil crisis, then we would have definately invaded the middle east during the petroleum crisis of the 1970's.

Besides, as the worlds largest purchaser and leverager of oil, the US should have a say in it's price, isn't that fair?

BTW, you should be thankful for the USA, Argentina would be nothing without the USA!!!!

[Larissa]

BTW, you should be thankful for the USA, Argentina would be nothing without the USA!!!!

Correction: Argentina would be (and in fact it IS and has always been) EVERYTHING WITHOUT the US.

BTW, and just for your info, it was the US who fucked up our economy.

[Communist Chris]

Leave her alone she was trying to point out what she thinks. Also stop saying that most countries would be nothing without the US. I don't see North Americans helping our poor and fighting crime here. I don't see them helping us to fight government corruption. All I see are the old North American War Veterans and old guys to come here looking for young girls to fuck that what's North Americans do here.

[Capitalist Imperial]

LOL, you don't even realize that Argentina is reliant on the USA. Our investment and control of your nation is so intrinsic to it's existence that most of Argentina's citizens have internalized the whole concept!!!


Argentina is America's lap dog, like many nations are.

It's OK, You should be thankful for our influence, or you would have a mess like the one occuring in Venezuela right now because of that evil dictator chavez.

[Larissa]

OMG! I never thought you were so ignorant about my country!

Now I understand why you think you can control the world! I just hope you come to realized how wrong you are before your beloved nation evolves to its self-destruction.

I wonder what kind of "person" could ever be proud to claim what you are stating about the US's help toward other countries!
"Argentina is America's lap dog, like many nations are."

Hope I never become so inhuman to say such a thing!

[Communist Chris]

Quote: from Larissa on 6:38 am on Jan. 5, 2003
OMG! I never thought you were so ignorant about my country!Now I understand why you think you can control the world! I just hope you come to realized how wrong you are before your beloved nation evolves to its self-destruction.
I wonder what kind of "person" could ever be proud to claim what you are stating about the US's help toward other countries!
"Argentina is America's lap dog, like many nations are."
Hope I never become so inhuman to say such a thing!
Right on sister! Hay CI you never answered back to my comment. Why?

[Capitalist Imperial]

Quote: from Communist Chris on 11:29 pm on Jan. 4, 2003
Leave her alone she was trying to point out what she thinks. Also stop saying that most countries would be nothing without the US. I don't see North Americans helping our poor and fighting crime here. I don't see them helping us to fight government corruption. All I see are the old North American War Veterans and old guys to come here looking for young girls to fuck that what's North Americans do here.


Costa Rica has benefitted from millions in american aid and industry.

[Communist Chris]

From what I know about my country's history we haven't. All i know is that bastard Willam Walker got us in war.

[MEXCAN]

Something sounds weird to me !!!!The US want to go war with IRAQ,but it's not for oil,right ??But somebody tell me !!!!Do you think that the US will go to war against IRAq will there is a major strike in Venezuela ??

[Capitalist Imperial]

Quote: from Communist Chris on 11:46 pm on Jan. 4, 2003
From what I know about my country's history we haven't. All i know is that bastard Willam Walker got us in war.


American tourism alone dumps millions into your economy. I'm sure that you have a real problem with America, but you still want us coming and spending our dollars there, correct?

Be Honest, CC

[Communist Chris]

Quote: from Capitalist Imperial on 6:48 am on Jan. 5, 2003

Quote: from Communist Chris on 11:46 pm on Jan. 4, 2003
From what I know about my country's history we haven't. All i know is that bastard Willam Walker got us in war.


American tourism alone dumps millions into your economy. I'm sure that you have a real problem with America, but you still want us coming and spending our dollars there, correct?

Be Honest, CC
Okay it helps the economy, but I hate when all the Yank pervs come here for sex!

[Larissa]

This confirms that the yanks want to fuck every single person in this whole world!
[/quote]Okay it helps the economy, but I hate when all the Yank pervs come here for sex![/quote]
The only help the US provided Argentina was their support (and CIA intervention) during the Military Dictatorship (1976-1983) that resulted in 30,000 people tortured and murdered just because they didn't agree to having the US messing with our country!

[Capitalist Imperial]

do you really believe it was that simple, Larissa?

Most of those 30,000 people killed were killed by the dictator that we saved you from!!!

[MEXCAN]

Ya CI the U.S has saved the hole world !!!!You should try using the word control instead of save !!!

[Larissa]

CI you must be completely aout of your mind, and for sure you do not know what you are talking bout.

Also, Argentina is NOT a poor country, Argentina produces 10 times the food (maize, corn, wheat and meat) needed for its population (that is, more than
90 percent of its produce is exported).

Farmers are NOT subsidized, on the contrary, they are heavily taxed, especially for exports. Argentina adhered strictly to the dollar for more than ten years, and for many of these years it set an example for the IMF to show to other countries.

However, now we see starving children dying every day in an otherwise rich country. There is not one _valid_ reason for this to happen. Don't you think "globalization" has something to do with this... and the ideas of the Chicago (et al.) economists that have been being injected for years into the local government, legislators and economists.

Your dearest country did destroy ours with its supposedly "aid"

[Communist Chris]

Hey C.I. why don't you come over and show us that America helps my country out and through out all of your perverted country men
?

[Sirion]

CI, the arrogancy is why so many people hate the U.S. (I am now speaking of the average, "I give a damn about politics"-person, not the people on this boards).

Sure, Americans leave a lot of money, but so could be said about anyone. If Americans money stayed in America and Argentinian money in Argentina, you would still be no further... Its to easy to say that basically the world is a wheel, and that U$A is pushing it forward.

[Panamarisen]

CI,

NOBODY wants the U$ fucking dollars, NOBODY wants the U$ fucking support!
Is that so difficult to understand?
Let people alone!!! Let everybody stand for their own!!! NOBODY needs your fucking "help"!!!

Just FUCK OFF, all of you, CAPITALIST BASTARDS!
WE JUST DON´T WANT YOU!
WE JUST DON´T NEED YOU!


HASTA LA VICTORIA SIEMPRE! (GET IT?)

[Larissa]

Quote: from Moskitto on 7:06 pm on Jan. 4, 2003
OPEC does not set oil prices,


Then, who does? The Chicago Mercentile Exchange? I'd really like to know. The "Chicago boys" just came up to my mind...but I'd really want to know.

[Larissa]

Quote: from Capitalist Imperial on 8:20 pm on Jan. 4, 2003
Larissa, you are painting america as much more aggressive that it really is. If we wert to War over every oil crisis, then we would have definately invaded the middle east during the petroleum crisis of the 1970's.

Besides, as the worlds largest purchaser and leverager of oil, the US should have a say in it's price, isn't that fair?

BTW, you should be thankful for the USA, Argentina would be nothing without the USA!!!!


The ONE LITTLE problem you don't realize is that the set of values originating in the US are utterly different from the values we have in Latin-America. Some people innocently believe that the US astounding success story can be reproduced in poor countries by the magic
of a free market, deregulation and hard work. The appreciation that the wealth of a nation is most often based upon the poverty of others is not widespread in the US, and thus it is hard for many people to understand why Argentina, Brazil or Mexico will never be equal to the US no matter what.

This belief in the universal application of the "things that make the US great" is common to the Latin-American wealthy as much as to many average and not-so-average Americans. They are not even able to see that other success stories (Asia Pacific countries come to mind) have not been copycats of the US, but rather original interpretations that have taken into account the national values, history, traditions and the zeitgeist of
their people (I'd love to see the Enron-Worldcom gang commiting "seppuku" because they failed their shareholders, as they do in Japan).

The ignorant, rather imbecilic way in which they have put into practice everything they learned in Harvard (medicine for the US, probably, poison for our countries, doubtless), their lack of understanding that we
_compete_ against other nations and the US is not gonna help us or be nice if we're docile, their idea that making our countries "more like the US" will make us wake up one day with huge disposable incomes and lots of electric appliances in our whitewashed homes, are all the essence of their stupidity. Coupled with their dishonesty and corruption, the recipe for disaster was complete. Argentina is down. Uruguay is coming. Mexico is not far away, unfortunately (in 20 years we went from 30% poor to 70%)

And that is not exactly what we want for our nations, believe me.

[Blackberry]

Quote: from Larissa on 11:00 am on Jan. 6, 2003

Quote: from Moskitto on 7:06 pm on Jan. 4, 2003
OPEC does not set oil prices,


Then, who does? The Chicago Mercentile Exchange? I'd really like to know. The "Chicago boys" just came up to my mind...but I'd really want to know.


It's common knowledge in my country (australia) that the price of petrol depends on OPEC's price.

(Edited by Neutral Nation at 11:15 am on Jan. 6, 2003)

[Capitalist Imperial]

Quote: from Larissa on 11:06 am on Jan. 6, 2003
[quote]
This belief in the universal application of the "things that make the US great" is common to the Latin-American wealthy as much as to many average and not-so-average Americans. They are not even able to see that other success stories (Asia Pacific countries come to mind) have not been copycats of the US, but rather original interpretations that have taken into account the national values, history, traditions and the zeitgeist of
their people (I'd love to see the Enron-Worldcom gang commiting "seppuku" because they failed their shareholders, as they do in Japan).



Well, Larissa, of course these nations are going to intermingle their own cultural considerations and regional specifics into their business practices, but they are hardly "original interpretations" (that is sort of an oxymoron anyway).

After World war 2, American economist Edward Demming went to Japan and taught the Japaneze about American Business practices, everything from basic manufacturing and labor processes, to Total Quality Management and Value added modeling. This set in motion the wheels for the entire pacific rim to develop strong economies and emerge as a region of viable markets and highly succesful industries based on the US economic model. The timing alone is highly indicative of the USA being the catalyst for success in Asia.

To claim, as you are, that Asian business success is "original interpretation" and not directly attributible to the teachings and application of American theory is to be both ignorant of history and the facts.

[Communist Chris]

CI America isn't the best place in the world. Thousands of imigrants go to your country to make their dreams come true, but once they are there they are exploited by big companies that make them earn a salary of less $5.75 an hour, just because they are imigrants. That makes me sick. How can people do that? That it is not all, they are not greedy like Americans they send money to their fam,ily so they can survive also. I think this is unfair.

[Capitalist Imperial]

Quote: from Communist Chris on 11:37 pm on Jan. 6, 2003
CI America isn't the best place in the world. Thousands of imigrants go to your country to make their dreams come true, but once they are there they are exploited by big companies that make them earn a salary of less $5.75 an hour, just because they are imigrants. That makes me sick. How can people do that? That it is not all, they are not greedy like Americans they send money to their fam,ily so they can survive also. I think this is unfair.

Is that what your commie friends told you? I live in san diego, and have seen countless immigrants here acheive great success in just years with a little hard work and dedication. they own their own businesses, and nake 100k+/ year.

I see it in my business every day.

[Larissa]

"they own their own businesses, and nake 100k+/ year"

Maybe prostitution, drug business, etc...

[pastradamus]

Im gonna go with larissa 100% on this,Imagrants are treated like shit,no jobs,living off crappy welfare.
Then they look for employmentt,but guess what! they dont get employed because they are from somwhere the pig greedy employer never even heard of.So they use the get-rich-quick sceme and are then forced to break laws and give the rest of their people a bad name,damaging the ethnic groups reputation and sparking racism...

[Communist Chris]

Quote: from pastradamus on 11:20 am on Jan. 7, 2003
Im gonna go with larissa 100% on this,Imagrants are treated like shit,no jobs,living off crappy welfare.
Then they look for employmentt,but guess what! they dont get employed because they are from somwhere the pig greedy employer never even heard of.So they use the get-rich-quick sceme and are then forced to break laws and give the rest of their people a bad name,damaging the ethnic groups reputation and sparking racism...

I am with him also. But I don't see a Latin American drive in a Porsche in San Diego...

[Capitalist Imperial]

Quote: from Larissa on 1:08 am on Jan. 7, 2003
"they own their own businesses, and nake 100k+/ year"

Maybe prostitution, drug business, etc...


This is an ignorant statement from someone who obviously does not live here.

But I do live here, and I see the success of the American dream every day.


(Edited by Capitalist Imperial at 6:56 pm on Jan. 7, 2003)

[Capitalist Imperial]

Quote: from Communist Chris on 3:06 pm on Jan. 7, 2003

Quote: from pastradamus on 11:20 am on Jan. 7, 2003
Im gonna go with larissa 100% on this,Imagrants are treated like shit,no jobs,living off crappy welfare.
Then they look for employmentt,but guess what! they dont get employed because they are from somwhere the pig greedy employer never even heard of.So they use the get-rich-quick sceme and are then forced to break laws and give the rest of their people a bad name,damaging the ethnic groups reputation and sparking racism...

I am with him also. But I don't see a Latin American drive in a Porsche in San Diego...


Do you live in san diego? I do, and I see americans of latin descent drive nice cars, including porche's, all the time.

[Larissa]

"Do you live in san diego? I do, and I see americans of latin descent drive nice cars, including porche's, all the time. "

Thank God my values are far away from driving a Porsche!

[Capitalist Imperial]

that wasn't the point, larissa

[Larissa]

Sure! That will never be your point.

[Capitalist Imperial]

Quote: from Larissa on 8:17 pm on Jan. 7, 2003
Sure! That will never be your point.

Why would it be? Consumerism is good for America.

[Guest]

larissa,

i could not agree with you more....
i have extremely brainwatched capitalistic friends who i find my self discussing and arguing the meaning of revolution and overthrowing a corrupt government, for example, most of latin america, and it always ends up as an argument....

i am no communist- and oppose Castro...but i am a firm believer in equality for education....and that is what the capitalists disapprove......revolutionary since Comandante Marcos!!!!!

by the way, is that your real picture.....may i say, that you look stunning!

;)

cheers!
phil medina
[email protected]

[Larissa]

TXS Phil!

Yes, it's me, thanks for the compliments too.

:-)

[Guest]

but the capitalistic imperial does have good points.....

like i say, everything looks good on paper.....

that is both commies and capii$$$

[Capitalist Imperial]

Quote: from Guest on 11:39 pm on Jan. 7, 2003
but the capitalistic imperial does have good points.....

like i say, everything looks good on paper.....

that is both commies and capii$$$

I agree, guest, many things look good on paper. However, In my opinion capitalism has proved better in practical application.

[Larissa]

Once in my life I agree with you CI:

"capitalism has proved better in practical application"

Definitely, for the sole benefit of capitalists, but not for the exploited and excluded people.

According to Chomsky's economics, Chomsky follows Marx in opposing the private ownership of the means of
production, which he believes permits "elite groups" to: "command resources, based ultimately on their control of the private economy," and ends up excluding the public from "basic decisions concerning production
and work."

[Communist Chris]

I don't live in San Diego, but I did live in California for 7 years. I did visit San Diego once we went to see Mission Bay and all I saw was yuppie white people in yates, no color or latin people. I also went to Florida and visited Fort Ladurdale, man is that place yuppie and I also did not see any color people or latin americans, well at least the janitor was latin!! So how is this? I think that is discrimination that Latin Americans do have a great job opportunity in the US.

[Capitalist Imperial]

I work in Mission Valley. There is a lot of wealth here, and many Latin people share in it. Maybe 1 day was not long enough for you to see it, because San Diego has one of the largest percentage and population of Latin Americans of any city in the US.

[pastradamus]

Quote: from Capitalist Imperial on 6:40 pm on Ja

Do you live in san diego? I do, and I see americans of latin descent drive nice cars, including porche's, all the time.

So basically what your saying is that ,the conditions of imagrants in san diego is automatically evident for the whole country? thats retarded,you probably live in sum bourgeois neighbourhood,so naturally the only imigrants you see drive porche cars.
The average imigrant is a prime example of the residue left over by capitalism............poverty.

[Communist Chris]

Quote: from pastradamus on 1:11 pm on Jan. 8, 2003

Do you live in san diego? I do, and I see americans o
So basically what your saying is that ,the conditions of imagrants in san diego is automatically evident for the whole country? thats retarded,you probably live in sum bourgeois neighbourhood,so naturally the only imigrants you see drive porche cars.
The average imigrant is a prime example of the residue left over by capitalism............poverty.
This guy has a point. Have you CI, gone somewhere else far away from your bourgeois hood?

[Capitalist Imperial]

yes, I have, I grew up working class. I am hardly upper class. You'd be surprised.

[Tkinter1]

CI,

I think they assume that all Capitalists are "borgousie". Just as Marx failed to recognize a middle class, alot of the people here do as well.

(Edited by Tkinter1 at 12:48 am on Jan. 9, 2003)

[Capitalist Imperial]

Quote: from Tkinter1 on 12:48 am on Jan. 9, 2003
CI,

I think they assume that all Capitalists are "borgousie". Just as Marx failed to recognize a middle class, alot of the people here do as well.

(Edited by Tkinter1 at 12:48 am on Jan. 9, 2003)


exactly

[Stormin Norman]

"The average imigrant is a prime example of the residue left over by capitalism............poverty."-Moron

I don't suppose that you would care to tell us exactly what type of economic system Mexico had when they destroyed the promise of their country, would you? Those who don't know their history are doomed to repeat it, and that is why you are tauting a socialist agenda. That's great! Let's see if we can end up as third world as Mexico.

(Edited by Stormin Norman at 11:40 pm on Jan. 9, 2003)

[Stormin Norman]

CI,

They also assume that anyone who is poor automatically supports the evil minions that would rise up and steal a nations wealth, as they did in Mexico.