Iraq War

[Pogue]

Could someone explain to me, in a relatively short paragraph, why we (the left) are opposed to the war in Iraq, when Saddam was an totalitarian racist dictator who murdered/tortured loads of people?

[Yehuda Stern]

I can't speak for 'the left,' and I don't think that most organizations will give you the same reason. But Marxists do not oppose imperialist wars against third world countries based on the regimes in those countries. The basis for opposing these wars is that they serve the interests of the imperialists, which are far more predatory and dangerous to the world working class - both that of the imperialist country and that of the third world country - than those of some rogue servant of imperialism.

[comrade stalin guevara]

i for 1 support the war in iraq minus the killings of innocence but yes i love watching the news and seeing capitolist soldiers die and as for al qaeda they are facist better the capitolist armies die fighting them then the red army. comrades we must remember if america cant destroy al qaeda the the left will have to

[Sam_b]

i for 1 support the war in iraq minus the killings of innocence but yes i love watching the news and seeing capitolist soldiers die and as for al qaeda they are facist better the capitolist armies die fighting them then the red army. comrades we must remember if america cant destroy al qaeda the the left will have to

Excuse me for being blunt (and obvious for most on this board) but that is a fucking terrible analysis.

Why are socialists against war in Iraq/Afghanistan? For a bucketload of reasons. I doubt anyone disagrees on here, but we aknowledge that Saddam Hussein was a ruthless dictator. But what has fundamentally changed in Iraq? Dictator has been swapped for dictator/occupier under the 'coalition of the willing'. As Yehuda Stern says, it is classic imperialism here: a rich, white nation(s) coming in with guns and money, using Saddam as an excuse for annexing the country and its oil wealth, and also to gain a strategic hold in the Middle East. The human rights abuses and indescriminate slaughter has showed us that the occupiers are far from a liberator force, and have utterly decimated the entire Iraqi infrastructure.

As socialists, we resist and oppose attacks on the working class. Due to primarily the US and UK armies, hundreds of thousands of Iraqis have died, as well as soldiers from working class families who have been lied to and forced into serving simply because they have no economic choice.

I could go on, but its late.

[comrade stalin guevara]

no disputing that comrade however like i say better its not us fighting them its win win for us comrade capitolist and facist killing each other

[Sam_b]

Why do you think people join Al-Qaeda? Is it maybe because they are faced with imperialism and see no alternative? Numbers have swelled due to western intervention. Many ordinary Irqi people have taken up arms to resist the occupation. Are these people 'fascist' as well?

It is also a false analysis to state that capitalists are dying. There is a difference between capitalists and people forced to fight for capitalism.

[comrade stalin guevara]

yes well most american soldiers i see seem to enjoy saving iraq.
no iraqis are not facist.
people joined al qaeda to fight SOVIET imperialisim and now american.
comrade when saddam was in power he purged iraqs communist.
it is MY asumption osama would do the same...

[Sam_b]

yes well most american soldiers i see seem to enjoy saving iraq.

Why is opposition to the war increasing every day within the armed forces then?
And 'saving' Iraq?


people joined al qaeda to fight SOVIET imperialisim and now american
Of course. That doesn't make all of them fascist, as per your analysis in a previous post.


comrade when saddam was in power he purged iraqs communist.


Saddam did a lot of horriffic things. But have they been any worse than what has happened in Iraq since 2003?

I can't see why you support this war at all. Socialists are against imperialism, or at least should be.

[comrade stalin guevara]

al qaeda is facist!
iraq should not be under occupation.
al qaeda should be destroyed.
if i support this war it is because this war will destroy america{war on terror not iraq}
and the saving iraq thing is a joke comrade.
wars are a nessicary evil.
this 1 is no exception.

[Sam_b]

Please please please read up a bit more on this issue before making sweeping generalisations.


if i support this war it is because this war will destroy america{war on terror not iraq}

We want to destroy the American ruling class and the idea of the US as a nation state. However, this is not how we do it: it is through the building and mobilisation of a class-conscious working class.


wars are a nessicary evil.
this 1 is no exception.

That is absolute bullshit. Try finding someone on here that agrees that the Iraq war is a necessary evil. If you do i'll be amazed.

[Faux Real]

Could someone explain to me, in a relatively short paragraph, why we (the left) are opposed to the war in Iraq, when Saddam was an totalitarian racist dictator who murdered/tortured loads of people?Opposition to the war in Iraq stem from the fact that this is not an altruistic, romanticized war about liberating a people suppressed by a totalitarian dictator. This is an imperialist war in every regard, motivated by interests of the capitalist competition, namely the military and oil industries, by the American national bourgeoisie in order to secure future interests in the region from other major players.

If removing Saddam was indeed the primary reason for the invasion, then why does the West itself support similar regimes?

Do you know that Saddam's Iraq itself was propped up by the US as a proxy to use against Iran?

Not much is different about an autocrat murdering, torturing, and carrying out reprehensible policies against ethnic minorities versus a republican government doing the same exact thing. The main difference is that it's much clearer to see who is carrying out the policies if it's a dictator, while not much so a republic (such acts can't possibly happen in a "democracy"!). The US, Britain, and the "Coalition of the Willing" are not much better in these regards if you think somehow this war was justified. Should the left call for an invasion against these states too?

no disputing that comrade however like i say better its not us fighting them its win win for us comrade capitolist and facist killing each otherWrong. It's young kids from an imperialist country who have nothing better to do killing people who want to expel the occupying power.

al qaeda is facist! . . . and you're naive.

al qaeda should be destroyed.By who? Why should you have to take sides? AlQaeda does not pose a threat to you, and the US is doing you no service by killing tribal men armed with crude weaponry in mountainous terrain.

if i support this war it is because this war will destroy america{war on terror not iraq}. . . right. As if the national bourgeoisie will allow that to happen.

and the saving iraq thing is a joke comrade.
wars are a nessicary evil.
this 1 is no exception.Back these lazy assumptions with some substantive evidence plz. Kthx. :rolleyes:

[comrade stalin guevara]

comrade al qaede is as facist as any nazi they addvocate islamic supriority and killing any one who is against them. COMRADES WHO HAVE THIS ROMANTIC LOOK AT AL QAEDA... U DO KNOW AL QAEDA WOULD KILL EVERY LAST NO GOD NO COUNTRY COMMUNIST/ANARCHIST

[comrade stalin guevara]

Q, any communist support al qaeda in the 1980s when it was fighting soviet imperialisim

[Sam_b]

comrade al qaede is as facist as any nazi they addvocate islamic supriority and killing any one who is against them. COMRADES WHO HAVE THIS ROMANTIC LOOK AT AL QAEDA... U DO KNOW AL QAEDA WOULD KILL EVERY LAST NO GOD NO COUNTRY COMMUNIST/ANARCHIST

Rather than spouting nonsense, please respond to comrades' questions and analysis. This stops you looking like an idiot.



any communist support al qaeda in the 1980s when it was fighting soviet imperialisim

I wouldn't call it specifically Al Qaeda; resistance to occupation is much broader than one specific group.

However, to answer your question I support the Afghan people's reistance to imperialism, and this counts from then until now.