Nazi Moms

[Bud Struggle]

Mother Loses Kids After Sending Daughter to School With Swastika Drawn on Arm (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,380741,00.html)

A Canadian woman who describes herself as a white nationalist lost custody of her children after sending her daughter to school twice with a swastika drawn on her arm, the CBC reported.

The Winnipeg mother told the CBC she regrets redrawing the Nazi symbol after a teacher scrubbed it off. She is fighting the child welfare system to regain custody of her daughter, 7, and son, 2, who were removed from her home four months ago.

"It was one of the stupidest things I've done in my life but it's no reason to take my kids," the unidentified woman told CBC News. She is currently allowed to see her kids for two hours a week.

Child and Family Services workers were alerted after the second swastika incident at school, the CBC reported. When they arrived at the family home they found neo-Nazi symbols and flags, and proceeded to seize the kids.

The case has sparked a debate over whether the police and child welfare authorities can take children away because of their parents’ beliefs.

"I'm willing to jump through their hoops," the woman told the CBC. "If they want me to deny my beliefs, I'll tell them that, but at the same time, I'm not a traitor to my politics, my beliefs. I just want my kids back."

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

In a related story: (http://www.cbc.ca/canada/manitoba/story/2008/07/10/swastika-child.html)

Child and Family Services case workers were alerted and went to the family's apartment, where they found neo-Nazi symbols and flags, and took custody of her son. Her daughter was taken from school.

In court documents, social workers say they're worried the parents' conduct and associations might harm the emotional well-being of the children and put them at risk.

Although she proudly wears a silver necklace that includes a swastika and has "white pride" flags in her home, the mother, who can't be named to avoid identifying her children, denies she's a neo-Nazi or white supremacist.

"A black person has a right to say black power or black pride and yet they're turning around on us and saying we're racists and bigots and neo-Nazis because we say white pride. It's hypocrisy at its finest."

The mother has been fighting in court for four months to get back her children, who are living with extended family. The mother can see her children for two hours a week.
==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

The question is: should kids be taken from their parents for political reasons? OK, we all don't like Nazis, but there are a lot of people that don't like Communists either.....

[Demogorgon]

How dumb do you have to be to draw Swastikas on a kid and send them to school like that?

I honestly would not have believed anyone to be that stupid. It makes me suspect that the mother may have some mental health difficulties to be honest.

[Kronos]

lost custody of her children after sending her daughter to school twice with a swastika drawn on her arm

Of course this was not the final verdict for social services in deciding to take the child out of the parent's custody. Rather, there must have been a series of issues which warranted social services intervention before the "final straw"- this incident here.

My position is this: in a democracy, citizens should have the right to practice representation of any ideology they want. This means that they should be able to mount a giant swastika on top of their house if they choose. In this specific case, Canada has committed a contradiction.

We have here a case of "the proof is in the pudding". Because of democracy, people have freedoms which allow them to express beliefs and practices which are conflicting with others.

I say to Canada- either lock your country down completely, or keep your fucking hands off the citizens.

[Vendetta]

What if it wasn't the kid's beliefs?

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

The question is: should kids be taken from their parents for political reasons? OK, we all don't like Nazis, but there are a lot of people that don't like Communists either.....

I wouldn't draw a hammer and sickle on my kid's arm, that's for sure.

[Pirate turtle the 11th]

No/very little political indoctrination for kids who can not make there mind up.

[Kwisatz Haderach]

I wouldn't draw a hammer and sickle on my kid's arm, that's for sure.
^ What he said.

No, children should not be taken away from their parents because of the parents' beliefs. But there is good reason to suspect that in this case, the mother's problem was not so much being a Nazi as being absolutely batshit insane.

I mean, honestly, can you imagine this scene:


Although she proudly wears a silver necklace that includes a swastika and has "white pride" flags in her home, the mother, who can't be named to avoid identifying her children, denies she's a neo-Nazi or white supremacist. :lol:

[Rollo]

^ What he said.

No, children should not be taken away from their parents because of the parents' beliefs. But there is good reason to suspect that in this case, the mother's problem was not so much being a Nazi as being absolutely batshit insane.

I mean, honestly, can you imagine this scene:

:lol:

I agree 100%. I'm guessing that the reason the kid was taken away wasn't due to the swastika alone, they would have probably realised she was as mad as the king and taken the kid. I just remember when I was in school writing anything on my arm would land me in trouble, doing it twice and it being a swastika I probably would have taken an in school suspension or something similar.

[Comrade Rage]

The question is: should kids be taken from their parents for political reasons?
Yes, absolutely.

If someone wants to teach their kid that fascism is good, socialism is bad, or any other intellectually/psychologically crippling garbage then I do support the right of the workers' state to rescind custody of the kid(s) from these horrible people. I also support further punishment of these people.

The only problem with this is how do you find out who is abusing their kid(s) in such a manner? The peoples' state can always take accounts from the kid(s) themselves, but the kid(s) might just have a chip on their shoulder about the parents. I think that we should have hearings on these types of cases before anything is done.

[Demogorgon]

Yes, absolutely.

If someone wants to teach their kid that fascism is good, socialism is bad, or any other intellectually/psychologically crippling garbage then I do support the right of the workers' state to rescind custody of the kid(s) from these horrible people. I also support further punishment of these people.

The only problem with this is how do you find out who is abusing their kid(s) in such a manner? The peoples' state can always take accounts from the kid(s) themselves, but the kid(s) might just have a chip on their shoulder about the parents. I think that we should have hearings on these types of cases before anything is done.
Or we could just install telescreens in their houses so that e know what is happening all the time.

It is one thing to support the state taking custody of a child in the cases TomK posted-where mental illness seems to be a large part. But to take away children just because their parents oppose socialism!?

[Dr Mindbender]

at least it wasnt a tattoo. :blink:

[Comrade Rage]

But to take away children just because their parents oppose socialism!?Yes. Since socialism will also be taught in all schools, parents who indoctrinate their kids in anti-social thought will be contributing to their kid's delinquent behavior, which is grounds for termination of parental rights already.

[Demogorgon]

Yes. Since socialism will also be taught in all schools, parents who indoctrinate their kids in anti-social thought will be contributing to their kid's delinquent behavior, which is grounds for termination of parental rights already.

This kind of lunacy does not do socialism any good, you really ought to know.

[Dr Mindbender]

Yes. Since socialism will also be taught in all schools, parents who indoctrinate their kids in anti-social thought will be contributing to their kid's delinquent behavior, which is grounds for termination of parental rights already.

i think you have to have a non-partisan education system to call it a true democracy. Under socialism, socialism wont have to be 'taught' because the arguments in favour of opposing ideologies will wither away and die.

The only time neutrality should be broken is when it comes to fighting fascism.

[Comrade Rage]

This kind of lunacy does not do socialism any good, you really ought to know.Actually, I think I made a good point.
When parents teach their kids to be disruptive in school, they are taken away. Also: when parents intentionally teach their kids false-hoods they are taken away.
If I'm a lunatic, then so are all of the modern education/family services agencies.

i think you have to have a non-partisan education system to call it a true democracy. Under socialism, socialism wont have to be 'taught' because the arguments in favour of opposing ideologies will wither away and die.The socialist system of government will have to be taught in Civics, and the socialist economy will have to be taught in Econ.

I don't think that is unreasonable.

[Demogorgon]

If I'm a lunatic, then so are all of the modern education/family services agencies.


No modern family service will remove a child from their parents because their parents hold political views contrary to the status quo.

What you are saying is that parents must agree with the status quo in order to be allowed to raise children. Do you realise how horrible that is?

[Dr Mindbender]

The socialist system of government will have to be taught in Civics, and the socialist economy will have to be taught in Econ.

I don't think that is unreasonable.

it will have to be taught to students that want to learn politics

no one else need to divert their attention away from their primary vocation in order to contribute to the worker's state.

[Comrade Rage]

What you are saying is that parents must agree with the status quo in order to be allowed to raise children. Do you realise how horrible that is?I am talking about under the post-revolutionary state, and no I don't have any problems with this.
Do you realize what you are defending? You are defending parents who choose to use their kids as political tools against the revolution.

That in and of itself is a pretty cold, calculated, and repugnant thing to do, don't you think?

What about Prussian Blue? Shouldn't kids be taken away from parents like that before they are truly beyond saving?


it will have to be taught to students that want to learn politics

no one else need to divert their attention away from their primary vocation in order to contribute to the worker's state.

There are already basic politics, government, and civics courses in high school. I'm not saying that every kid has to learn all the aspects of socialism, but a majority of people having a good idea of how it actually works will be beneficial.

As a matter of fact, I think that everyone should be given access to an education (basic or advanced) of what socialism/communism is. I think that might stop revisionism and opportunists from hijacking the revolution.

[Red_or_Dead]

The question is: should kids be taken from their parents for political reasons?

Depends on how serious the thing is. The incident in question, yes, absolutely.


OK, we all don't like Nazis, but there are a lot of people that don't like Communists either.....

I think that the above should apply in all cases. Including communist/socialist/anarchist ect. ones.

Politics, religion, ideologies and stuff like that should be kept away from children, until they are capable of thinking for themselves.

[Bud Struggle]

Interesting article about the kids of Communist parents in Britain during the Cold War.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3780/is_199910/ai_n8874571

[Lost In Translation]

The question is: should kids be taken from their parents for political reasons? OK, we all don't like Nazis, but there are a lot of people that don't like Communists either.....

I might be a little biased in this situation, because it involved a swastika, but I don't think the kids should be taken from their parents for political reasons alone. This was just a case of stupidity. I could understand if the mother drew a swastika on herself, but using her kids as billboards is not acceptable.

[Pirate turtle the 11th]

I might be a little biased in this situation, because it involved a swastika, but I don't think the kids should be taken from their parents for political reasons alone. This was just a case of stupidity. I could understand if the mother drew a swastika on herself, but using her kids as billboards is not acceptable.

I think some basic politics should be allowed. But by the basic politcs i mean issues which will be needed to get on with other people in day to day life, these should include don't bully people don't be racist/ sexist etc you know stuff your supposed to do in a decent socitey even if your apolitical.

However dressing little Timmy up in a big hammer and sickle suit and driving him around while he reads the communist manifesto at people out the window - is bad

Not only because it is bang out of order since most little kids are unable to resist ideas when people they trust tell them to embrace them.

Also because that kid would grow up to be quite a shit communist since he/she had not being taught to think for himself and herself.

So yeah after a warning or two why not take the kids away?

is it not in there best intrestets they dont grow up to be human parrots copying the words his/her parents taught it.

[Killfacer]

is what brick said the general veiw of most communists? that kids should be taken away from their parents if they have veiws which are anti socialist in anyway? Its a ridiculous opinion.

[Lost In Translation]

is what brick said the general veiw of most communists? that kids should be taken away from their parents if they have veiws which are anti socialist in anyway? Its a ridiculous opinion.

No...my opinion is that if you're using your child as a billboard for your politics, your children should be taken from you. However, if someone were to find out you're a communist/nazi/anything else that goes against the grain, but you're a great parent, they have no right to take your child from you. Canada is such a laugh. Freedom of speech, eh?:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

[Pirate turtle the 11th]

is what brick said the general veiw of most communists? that kids should be taken away from their parents if they have veiws which are anti socialist in anyway? Its a ridiculous opinion.

I don't believe that. (

along as the kids are kept the fuck out of it i don't care (unless the parents are racist/sexist etc since that has a major influence on the persons personal life which will rub off on the kids).

[Demogorgon]

is what brick said the general veiw of most communists? that kids should be taken away from their parents if they have veiws which are anti socialist in anyway? Its a ridiculous opinion.

Christ, no. He is absolutely off the wall.

[Dean]

This is a hard issue. On the one hand, it is obvious that such indoctrination is sinister, destructive, and will create some form of mental problem, even if that is just the idea itself.

On the other hand, it seems almost Orwellian to take kids away for what are undoubtedly non-violent (debatable) ideology, conscious and speech issues. I lean towards "no, we can't take the kids" but I don't think it would take much more than this for me to turn around and say that the kids should be taken.

[Pirate turtle the 11th]

On the other hand, it seems almost Orwellian to take kids away for what are undoubtedly non-violent (debatable) ideology, conscious and speech issues. I lean towards "no, we can't take the kids" but I don't think it would take much more than this for me to turn around and say that the kids should be taken.

I lean towards the " don't turn your kids into your own political parrot".

If under communism the community is quite harsh with these things hopefully we will see generations of people thinking for themselves rather then the "i do what daddy does" method of politics.

[RedKnight]

I would be concerned that removing the children of neo-nazi parents would cause the children to want to turn against the government. I think that the state school system is the best recourse against children who were indoctrinated by there parents to be anti-democratic. In school the falsehoods of the parents can be counteracted by the truth. And students can learn to think for themselves, and draw there own conclusions. But unless the parents are using there children as little terrorists, I do not necessarily feel that they should lose custody. At least not under the bourgeois democracy. Now under the worker state, there will be a single political ideology. And anyone who undermines the socialist republic, will be forcibly re-educated/rehabilitated.

[Kronos]

Look at them. Aren't they adorable?

http://www.monthlymonty.com/images/hitler_youth2.jpg

http://www.smh.com.au/ffximage/2007/10/19/hitleryouth_wideweb__470x380,0.jpg

Precious. Just precious.

[Kronos]

Wait!

What the fuck am I thinking?

I'm no Nazi!

Where's the communist kids. Here they are:

http://www.gezimhadaj.com/thumbs5/5020s.jpg

http://www.wilsonsalmanac.com/images2/child_soldiers_xinhua.jpg

http://tomwolters.web-log.nl/photos/uncategorized/children_poem_recital.jpg

Awwwwwwwww.

[Bud Struggle]

For some reason Capitalists aren't too big on this kind of stuff.

[Kronos]

Right, because a capitalist does not share interests with other capitalists. Another capitalist is in principle an enemy.

Imagine that.....a capitalist youth camp....

"Okay kids, here's the deal. All of you are going to open a department store in five years. After you start your business, you must hate each other, because each one of you are going to try to beat the other in the market. If you want to be successful you must find the cheapest possible labor you can find. Some of you will screw the Mexicans, some of you will screw the Chinese, but all of you will screw each other. Good luck, kids, and remember....at any moment the workers might start a revolution because they, unlike yourselves, are decent, honest people."

The working classes, on the other hand, have everything in common and a mutual respect for others of their class.

[CanadianCommunist]

Well folks even Canada has Red necks Lol

[Bud Struggle]

The working classes, on the other hand, have everything in common and a mutual respect for others of their class.

Right! :lol:

[Kronos]

The educated one's Tom, I mean. You knew that. Don't try to say that because 99% of the content of the Jerry Springer show involves some kind of dispute between two or more people of the lower working class from Mississippi who hate each other, the educated working classes that observe and acknowledge their mutual ends and have a intellectual understanding of Marxism at least minimally, don't get along.

Jesus man, they have to even know who Marx is, at least. You mention Marx to one of them and they start singing lyrics to a Richard Marx song. Come on.

Don't mock a group of CONSCIOUS proletariats. You put everyone from this forum in a room and you would see magic happen. We would work like a well oiled machine. I wouldn't have it any other way.

I bet we could run the world. The cast of Revleft.com....given the earth to turn into a socialism. Say we couldn't do it. I dare you. There is at least one member here that is specialized in one of the necessary disciplines and studies required to organize a global socialism. We have the entire cabinet here at RevLeft. And if we are missing someone...then somebody has a friend who can do it, I'm sure.

I bet I could beat you in a game of Risk, Tom. I don't play. I do it like Mao did it. I ask questions later, after I get shit done.

Everyone would have a copy of Kronos's little blue book. The rest of literature gets thrown on Hume's bonfire. We start over and rewrite history. In three generations, all evidence of false ideologies and sciences would be gone. An entirely different kind of person would be born and raised in our new societies.

[Lost In Translation]

Right, because a capitalist does not share interests with other capitalists. Another capitalist is in principle an enemy.

Imagine that.....a capitalist youth camp....

"Okay kids, here's the deal. All of you are going to open a department store in five years. After you start your business, you must hate each other, because each one of you are going to try to beat the other in the market. If you want to be successful you must find the cheapest possible labor you can find. Some of you will screw the Mexicans, some of you will screw the Chinese, but all of you will screw each other. Good luck, kids, and remember....at any moment the workers might start a revolution because they, unlike yourselves, are decent, honest people."

That's a pretty disturbing thought. Maybe if we put them in a cappie youth camp long enough, they might develop a hate for each other before opening monopolizing dept. stores :laugh:

[Dean]

I lean towards the " don't turn your kids into your own political parrot".

If under communism the community is quite harsh with these things hopefully we will see generations of people thinking for themselves rather then the "i do what daddy does" method of politics.

I would rather hope that the community is involved enough, and understanding enough, that peopel can look after each other and that bigotry is so clearly useless that racism would be minimized, and the negative influence of a parent also limited. I tend to cringe every time I hear a communist say that a community with use social power to compel others to conform to a set of morals or standards. That's a competitive solution; a really revolutionary solution is to have an active, constant interaction where people can encourage each other through reason, understandign and love, rather than coercion.

[Bright Banana Beard]

I am sure that Boy Scout of (State Name) is the State's kid military program.

[pusher robot]

I am sure that Boy Scout of (State Name) is the State's kid military program.

Sarcasm? I can't tell.

[Pirate turtle the 11th]

I would rather hope that the community is involved enough, and understanding enough, that peopel can look after each other and that bigotry is so clearly useless that racism would be minimized, and the negative influence of a parent also limited. I tend to cringe every time I hear a communist say that a community with use social power to compel others to conform to a set of morals or standards. That's a competitive solution; a really revolutionary solution is to have an active, constant interaction where people can encourage each other through reason, understandign and love, rather than coercion.

By bigoted parents I mean the ones we get abit off in kent. The "dont talk to black people / gays" type.

Parents receive huge amounts of trust from there kids most of the time.

Kids are more likely to be affected by there parents then the community at a young age.

Of course bigotry would be minimized but somewhere and someplace (probs soon after the revolution) there would be a twat headed bigot parent and thats were the community step in. If the child grew up as a racist that would be shitty for the child.

[RHIZOMES]

For some reason Capitalists aren't too big on this kind of stuff.

I beg to differ. Children are indoctrinated into capitalism and nationalism every day. Especially in America, with that "American Dream" thing and all. Love your country and work hard!

[Pirate turtle the 11th]

I beg to differ. Children are indoctrinated into capitalism and nationalism every day. Especially in America, with that "American Dream" thing and all. Love your country and work hard!

In britain I could list mountains of the shit they do to indroctrante.

(National anthem , army recuitmnt , glorification of war , scouts etc)

[chimx]

I think the white nationalist mother should have her children returned to her.

[Pirate turtle the 11th]

why?

and have her children grow up into white nationalists?

[Lector Malibu]

I'm sure there where some other incidents that warranted the removal of the children.

[Killfacer]

what you chattin comrade joe? I have not once been asked to sing a national anthem, i have not once been in the scouts (and im pretty sure in the scouts they teach you to tie knots, not love you're country), Glorification of war? Last time i saw nearly every news channel/newspaper was extremely critical of the war. Army recruitment? Iv seen one army recruitment officer on a careers day and he didnt speak to me.

More on subject, i find it hard to beleive that the Swastika was the only incident. Obviously they decided she was an unfit mother, a decision which i'd be happy to stand by.

[Pirate turtle the 11th]

what you chattin comrade joe? I have not once been asked to sing a national anthem, i have not once been in the scouts (and im pretty sure in the scouts they teach you to tie knots, not love you're country), Glorification of war? Last time i saw nearly every news channel/newspaper was extremely critical of the war. Army recruitment? Iv seen one army recruitment officer on a careers day and he didnt speak to me.



You are one lucky bastard.

Saluting the flags and getting taught to march for millitry personal who give grants to the scout group if it is deemed to good at marching and all that. Sounds abit like installing patriotism

(Also see the scout promise)
( and scout law)

[RHIZOMES]

why?

and have her children grow up into white nationalists?

Yeah like how my mother raised me to be a fundamentalist Christian. That worked out well for her! :lol:

[Killfacer]

saluting the flag? Where did you salute the flag? If its at the scouts then jesus. I didnt realise the scouts where that weird. I mean i always thought they where a bit weird, marching about tying knots and looking like the Hitler youth but salutign the flag?

[nuisance]

saluting the flag? Where did you salute the flag? If its at the scouts then jesus. I didnt realise the scouts where that weird. I mean i always thought they where a bit weird, marching about tying knots and looking like the Hitler youth but salutign the flag?
Yeah, I went to Scouts a fair few years ago. Very hierarchical and patriotic. Examples are the raising union flag at the beginning and inspections of uniform. Also at a camp we had parts of the national anthem on pieces of card, that we had to put in the correct order. That said I did enjoy going, despite the regimentation and cermonies, but football comittments saw an end to it.

[Pirate turtle the 11th]

Yeah like how my mother raised me to be a fundamentalist Christian. That worked out well for her! :lol:

Well done :thumbup:

but 9/10 of the fundies I know are fundies because of there parents.

[nuisance]

Well done :thumbup:

but 9/10 of the fundies I know are fundies because of there parents.
That's probably just a Kent thing, after all they couldn't possibly go without their copious amounts of pocket money!:lol:

[Pirate turtle the 11th]

That's probably just a Kent thing, after all they couldn't possibly go without their copious amounts of pocket money!:lol:

We have alot of casual religious nutters.

But we have some major nutters appear once in a while ( dont teach evolution to our kids/ archbishop is an antichirt type)

it often depends on the nuttyness of there parents.

( Banned from watching harry potter anyone?)

[Unicorn]

why?

and have her children grow up into white nationalists?
The question is whether a bourgeois state should have that kind of power in the first place. If the state has the right to take away the children of Nazis it can (perversely) with the same justification take away the children of Communists because the bourgeois see both Nazis and Communists as supporters of a "totalitarian ideology".

[Pirate turtle the 11th]

The question is whether a bourgeois state should have that kind of power in the first place. If the state has the right to take away the children of Nazis it can (perversely) with the same justification take away the children of Communists because the bourgeois see both Nazis and Communists as supporters of a "totalitarian ideology".

Nazis have more stigma then communists.

Even though saying that communists still have a hell of alot.

[chimx]

why?

and have her children grow up into white nationalists?

Giving the government authority to remove a parents custody of their children for a parents ideological views is extremely coercive. It amounts to punishing any individual that has a dissenting ideology, political position, etc.

[Pirate turtle the 11th]

Giving the government authority to remove a parents custody of their children for a parents ideological views is extremely coercive. It amounts to punishing any individual that has a dissenting ideology, political position, etc.

She is being punished for turning her child into a walking billbored which spreads racist views.

Thats different to punishing her for having a dissenting ideology

[Green Dragon]

Christ, no. He is absolutely off the wall.



Let's think about what Brick said. He said that in the post revolutionary world its okay to take away the children of counterrevolutionaries, which he defines as those against the revolution.


1. Does the family unit stay the same in a post revolutionary world? Demogorgon you have certainly seen the posts hereabouts which question that status quo.
2. How does the post revolutionary society "teach" the children of those who are against the new order? Certainly, if the family unit remains unchanged, what those kids are taught in the home has to be considered as valuable, maybe even more so, than what the new society attempts to teach in general. How does that impact the revolution?

Fellows like Brick are valuable to the "Left" because they seem to be thinking of the problems and probable solutions to the arguments more moderate and sane Leftwingers pose.

[chimx]

She is being punished for turning her child into a walking billbored which spreads racist views.

Thats different to punishing her for having a dissenting ideology

Being a billboard has nothing to do with it. This wouldn't have happened if she had drawn a Nike Swoosh sign on her daughter. The reason the daughter was taken was for the ideology behind the symbol. In essence she is being punished for thought crime, which is an extremely scary slippery slope to start down. How would you like it if your daughter was taken from you if the authorities found out you posted on a web forum that advocates socialist revolution?

[Demogorgon]

Giving the government authority to remove a parents custody of their children for a parents ideological views is extremely coercive. It amounts to punishing any individual that has a dissenting ideology, political position, etc.

I agree. However as I said earlier, there are probably other issues at stake regarding her mental health. You simply don't draw Swastikas on children and send them to school like that if you are of sound mind. It may be that she is suffering from mental or emotional issues that are preventing her from properly looking after her children. If that is the case then it is suitable to take the children into temporary custody.

[chimx]

Yes, I agree that this is a possibility, but unfortunately that is just speculation on our parts.

[Pirate turtle the 11th]

Being a billboard has nothing to do with it. This wouldn't have happened if she had drawn a Nike Swoosh sign on her daughter. The reason the daughter was taken was for the ideology behind the symbol. In essence she is being punished for thought crime, which is an extremely scary slippery slope to start down. How would you like it if your daughter was taken from you if the authorities found out you posted on a web forum that advocates socialist revolution?

Your right. If she drew a nike logo on her child nothing would have happened.
But i am not that bothered its stops her from using her child as a billbored no matter what the incentive for the social services action was.

I think communists are safe at the moment since the main reason a nazi would have being targeted is that neo nazism and racial hatred could seriously mess up the environment of a school if it caught on.

[chimx]

I think communists are safe at the moment

slippery slope

[Vanguard1917]

The question is: should kids be taken from their parents for political reasons?

No, they absolutely shouldn't. The authorities' actions in this case are disgraceful and should be strongly opposed. Socialists are irreconcialibly opposed to those who call upon the capitalist state to dictate the political opinion of our children.

[RGacky3]

Freedom of speach is either for everyone or its not at all, you can't restrict freedom of speach, if you do that then its not freedom of speach.

That is one thing that I'd have to agree that the United States is far ahead of other countries, such as in Germany, and most of europe, they restrict speach, its illigal to deny the holocaust, which is rediculous, why would you outlaw that, infact outlawing it gives it some power, which is rediculous.

I think it says something that the united states many times has to break its own law to attack radicals, if a state like germany or france wanted to crack down on radicals, it could do it pretty easily using a few tweaked laws.

In my opinion the mom putting a swastica on her kids arm is similar to putting a jewish star or a christian cross on a necklass, only difference is the swastica is way way more offensive, but how offensive someting is should'nt be the issue.

[Robert]

That is one thing that I'd have to agree that the United States is far ahead of other countriesGet DOWN with yore bad self, homey!

But seriously, Gack, it's enough that you're restricted. You keep this up and you'll be banned!

[Dros]

Yes, absolutely.

If someone wants to teach their kid that fascism is good, socialism is bad, or any other intellectually/psychologically crippling garbage then I do support the right of the workers' state to rescind custody of the kid(s) from these horrible people. I also support further punishment of these people.

The only problem with this is how do you find out who is abusing their kid(s) in such a manner? The peoples' state can always take accounts from the kid(s) themselves, but the kid(s) might just have a chip on their shoulder about the parents. I think that we should have hearings on these types of cases before anything is done.

I would agree if we were talking about a worker's state. It's one thing for a socialist state to do this. It's entirely another for a bourgeois dictatorship to do it.

[Bud Struggle]

I would agree if we were talking about a worker's state. It's one thing for a socialist state to do this. It's entirely another for a bourgeois dictatorship to do it.

It seems that there's more freedom in the Bourgeois society than in the worker state. (Including the freedom to be an a-hole.)

[Vanguard1917]

If someone wants to teach their kid that fascism is good, socialism is bad, or any other intellectually/psychologically crippling garbage then I do support the right of the workers' state to rescind custody of the kid(s) from these horrible people. I also support further punishment of these people.

Nice one, Adolf. :thumbup:


I would agree if we were talking about a worker's state.

I'm suprised that you do; you're usually one of the more intelligent members here.

[Chapter 24]

As numerous others have pointed out, the mother's insanity is probably what caused the loss of her children. I mean, the dumb ass drew a swastika on her children's arms TWICE? And anyway, that type of indoctrination is just beyond belief to me. If she could she would probably start a Hitler Youth program, too.

[MarxSchmarx]

What is of course not mentioned is the adverse effect on the socialization of children. If you draw a swastika on a kid's arm, there is no way the kid will have any Jewish friends, their peers will think their mommy is a total jerk, and other parents will (quite reasonably) refuse to let their own kids play over at this moron's house. I mean, there are plenty of unhealthy habits parents impose on their kids (like going to church or eating count chocula) that don't have a high chance of hurting their socialization. But there are some things that really do hurt a child's position viz. their peers, and drawing a swastika on their arm ranks, very very high on that list.

[Bud Struggle]

As numerous others have pointed out, the mother's insanity is probably what caused the loss of her children. I mean, the dumb ass drew a swastika on her children's arms TWICE? And anyway, that type of indoctrination is just beyond belief to me. If she could she would probably start a Hitler Youth program, too.

But what can't she be free to do whatever she wants? She didn't threaten anyone. The world hasn't been attacked by Fascism in 65 years--NO ONE (almost) takes their political philosophy seriously (at least in the USA or Canada). Mosty people don't like them--but they are harmless since WWII. Who cares?

(I'm not for this--I'm just making a point) but we've been attacked by Muslims--quite recently, shouldn't we be more inclined to take the kids away from someone dressed with a head scarf?

[Lost In Translation]

(I'm not for this--I'm just making a point) but we've been attacked by Muslims--quite recently, shouldn't we be more inclined to take the kids away from someone dressed with a head scarf?
Why would we want to do that? Simply because they're wearing turbans does not mean they're all muslim and extremist in nature. America has become really paranoid with the Terrorism fiasco, even though people use 9/11 to justify their claims. Many people from the Sikh society and Hindu society wear turbans, so does that mean their children should be more prone to being taken away?

[Unicorn]

What is of course not mentioned is the adverse effect on the socialization of children. If you draw a swastika on a kid's arm, there is no way the kid will have any Jewish friends, their peers will think their mommy is a total jerk, and other parents will (quite reasonably) refuse to let their own kids play over at this moron's house. I mean, there are plenty of unhealthy habits parents impose on their kids (like going to church or eating count chocula) that don't have a high chance of hurting their socialization. But there are some things that really do hurt a child's position viz. their peers, and drawing a swastika on their arm ranks, very very high on that list.
That's a stupid perspective. I was often grounded and not allowed to meet any friends. It did hurt my "socialization" but parents have an authority to limit it.

Regarding the issue of insanity: Sometimes doctors misdiagnose mental illnesses and the state coercively takes away the children of working-class mothers who don't have the resources the defend their rights against the powerful bourgeois state machine. Socialists should be very vigilant against any restrictions on civil rights or liberties.

[Holden Caulfield]

But what can't she be free to do whatever she wants? She didn't threaten anyone. The world hasn't been attacked by Fascism in 65 years--NO ONE (almost) takes their political philosophy seriously (at least in the USA or Canada). Mosty people don't like them--but they are harmless since WWII. Who cares?
"slavery hasnt exsisted for hundreds of years in the USA so white people can call black people niggers and it does no harm"

that is the same thing,

what if more kids started to wear swastikas and you were the only jewish kid in your class how would you feel,

and on top of this children should not be indoctrinated with their parents twisted prejudices

[Bud Struggle]

"slavery hasnt exsisted for hundreds of years in the USA so white people can call black people niggers and it does no harm"

that is the same thing,

what if more kids started to wear swastikas and you were the only jewish kid in your class how would you feel,

and on top of this children should not be indoctrinated with their parents twisted prejudices

So then what's more important--free speech or the way someone feels?

Lots of people have suffered under Pol Pot--so we shouldn't let any signs of Communism exist in free society?

It may hurt people's feelings.

You say: "Pol Pot didn't speak for Communists!"

Maybe some would say: "Hitler didn't speak for Fascists."

(Hopefully everyone understands I am speaking the the hypothetical.)

[Comrade Rage]

I would agree if we were talking about a worker's state. It's one thing for a socialist state to do this. It's entirely another for a bourgeois dictatorship to do it.Well, I was talking in the context of a socialist state. In the current bourgeosie dictatorship, I believe that this should only be done in the situation of fascism.