Holy shitballs are you all unemployed?!

[534634634265]

so, i like to look at peoples profile information in an attempt to learn what i can about them. is everyone on here unemployed?!:blink::blink:
i bet easily 2/3 of this site is populated by high school age, W.A.S.P's who think they're nonconformist cuz they claim to be socialist/communist/anarchist/whatever bullshit faction you align yourself with.
please, those of you with jobs, illuminate me. show me i'm wrong, please god let me be wrong!!:crying::blink::bored:

[Kami]

Oh, thankyou. Just what I need - a so-called leftist joining the legions of middle-class daily-mail readers looking down their noses upon those of us unfortunate enough to be unable to find work. I'm just trying to be "nonconformist" now, am I?

Really, fuck off.

[Sentinel]

I do have a job, and consider myself lucky. Unemployment is a necessary feature of the capitalist system, it requires it to stay on high levels in order to function 'properly'.

Why do you find it surprising that most of those who organise to oppose capitalism happen to belong to this group of people, who are sacrificed -- denied the opportunity to a decent living -- for the benefit of the market? Isn't that quite natural..?

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Why does it matter whether we're employed or not? Does one have to be a slave to know that slavery is evil?

[RedAnarchist]

so, i like to look at peoples profile information in an attempt to learn what i can about them. is everyone on here unemployed?!:blink::blink:
i bet easily 2/3 of this site is populated by high school age, W.A.S.P's who think they're nonconformist cuz they claim to be socialist/communist/anarchist/whatever bullshit faction you align yourself with.
please, those of you with jobs, illuminate me. show me i'm wrong, please god let me be wrong!!:crying::blink::bored:

I'm a university student, although I'm halfway through work experience and should soon be starting a full time job.

[mykittyhasaboner]

so what if im in high school and unemployed? i doesnt mean i dont hate capitalism as much as the next guy. you make it sound like its easy to find a job, well it surely isnt. if you have such a big problem with people who are unemployed, then just fuck off, and dont post stupid threads like this one.

[communard resolution]

I do have a job, and consider myself lucky. Unemployment is a necessary feature of the capitalist system, it requires it to stay on high levels in order to function 'properly'.

Hi Sentinel, I heard this one before and think it's really interesting. I believe I actually read a similar quote by a capitalist: "we need a certain percentage of the population to be unemployed".

I admit I don't really understand that at all. Could you explain to me how that works? (no sarcasm, I just genuinely don't get it).

Thanks!

[Die Neue Zeit]

^^^ In case workers quit or start to advocate labour rights, they get fired and are replaced.

[#FF0000]

Yeah, there aren't any jobs in Pennsylvania anymore. Just some minor entry-level things. Still, I managed to get myself an interview on monday to be a cashier at a local warehouse store. Hopefully that'll work out. Didn't notice it until now but things are getting tough. :(

[Robert]

I and at least one other counterrevolutionary here work for ourselves.

According to the Dept. of Labor, the number of unemployed persons in the USA was essentially unchanged in June, 2008 at
8.5 million, and the unemployment rate held at 5.5 percent. A year earlier,
the number of unemployed persons was 7.0 million, and the jobless rate was
4.6 percent.

It appears to be around 5.3% in the UK. http://www.statistics.gov.uk/CCI/nugget.asp?ID=12

It's 5.9% in Sweden. http://www.vedior.com/hr-portal/recruitment-news/swedish-unemployment-stands-at-59.html

In France, it's near 8%. http://frencheconomy.blogspot.com/2008/03/france-unemployment-q4-2007.html

We're not headed anywhere near revolution with unemployment figures this low, and we're in a serious downturn with oil prices high and problems in the housing market. Housing is already reaching the bottom.

If T. Boone can get his wind turbines humming over the next 3 years (and he will) and help bring down the cost of oil, I expect more growth in the USA and even lower numbers of unemployed.

[Killfacer]

i work at asda (walmart for you yanks). Its pretty good pay, okay hours etc

What annoys me is people in England saying it is hard to get a job. Its fucking easy. As soon as i finished sixth form i got a job at asda.

[Vendetta]

Working for overweight people who can't stop stuffing their faces at DQ.

[Robert]

Wow, RSOA, I thought all you southern californians were fit, tanned, and lived on toasted wheatberries, bean sprouts, and brewers yeast. Seriously, do you sell a lot of ice cream sundaes in there? Hey, I'll tell you something really funny about DQ:

I went inside of a DQ in Alexandria, Louisiana once and there was thick, black smoke hanging in the air. I asked the weary looking cashier what was up with the smoke:

"Oh, it always gets lak that when we need to change the grease."

I swear that happened! I didn't buy anything.

[Holden Caulfield]

i have a job, im working class, my parents are as well, so are theirs,

the OP is retarded

[Kronos]

Why does it matter whether we're employed or not?It doesn't, but unfortunately there is a new wave of communists who use the excuse of being exploited as a justification for not wanting to work. Under closer inspection, many of these communists don't want to work anyway, and are using the excuse post hoc. That is to say, in a communist system they would still be worthless.

The perfect revolutionary is one who has experienced his struggle and understands precisely why he is struggling. The contrary type is the type who has not struggled enough, and who, therefore, cannot understand his importance and priority over the competing class.

To really know, to really understand the magnificence of marxist theory one has to "get one's hands dirty". One has to have experienced incident after incident and example after example of the injustices of the capitalist system. I've got fifteen years in my belt. In these fifteen years I have experienced problems for which there is no legitimate solution other than a complete, radical change of the superstructure.

I will throw you an example, one of many.

In the free-market, the requirement for owning a business is simply having enough money to invest in getting it started. A person does not need to take an IQ test, does not need to know how to use logic, does not need to "like" or respect anyone.

I have worked for subcontractors who have refused to pay me what was owed to me. Upon taking the case to civil court, it was realized that this subcontractor had nothing to be garnished and no property on which a lien could be taken out. In short, I was never paid what was owed.

Now, here is the paradox. Either the state must control business so that this is not possible, or, the state must compensate me for my loses which are the result in participating in its system, or, the state loses its authority over me. In other words, the moment the state has failed to substantiate its laws....it no longer has jurisprudence over me. I am immune to its laws.

Many years ago, after being cheated by an employer and not compensated by the state for what was owed, I hooked my employer's house (which was a trailer) up to a tow chain and pulled it off its foundation. Prior to that, I stole anything of value from inside.

If a cop would have tried to intervene and stop me....I would have shot him on the spot.

Again, I cannot stress this enough: either the state prevents these problems from happening, or it loses its authority completely.

In a socialist system, these problems would not exist. There would be no free-market and no free-enterprise. The failure of the capitalist system to stipulate more severe rules and regulations on business operations has resulted in problems that it does not, cannot, solve.

This has happened to workers all over the world, and the majority of them do not have the courage or audacity to stand their ground. They allow themselves to be abused over and over again. Not this worker here. It ain't me, babe. I'll fucking shoot em.

[Kropotesta]

Yes, I work. I'm a carer at a head injuries unit.

[#FF0000]

i work at asda (walmart for you yanks). Its pretty good pay, okay hours etc

What annoys me is people in England saying it is hard to get a job. Its fucking easy. As soon as i finished sixth form i got a job at asda.

How hard it is to find a job depends on the person's situation. For example, my father can't get a job because he's either overqualified or underqualified for every job he finds. He couldn't work at Wal*Mart if he wanted to, can't get his old job back because it moved to Louisiana, and couldn't get another job on the same level anyway because he doesn't have a college degree, which is usually necessary for his line of work. Instead, he manage to work himself up from working on tugboats for 2 weeks at a time to dispatching them. He'd do it again, but he's already nearly 50 and it took him 15-20 years to do that in the first place.

Meanwhile I started looking for work a week ago, filled out one application and got an interview. My dad's been looking for nearly a year now and has new applications going out daily.

It's funny how that works.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

It doesn't, but unfortunately there is a new wave of communists who use the excuse of being exploited as a justification for not wanting to work. Under closer inspection, many of these communists don't want to work anyway, and are using the excuse post hoc. That is to say, in a communist system they would still be worthless. In other words, people have looked at the "careers" available to them under capitalism, and decided they didn't want any of that shit.

Can't say I blame them.


This has happened to workers all over the world, and the majority of them do not have the courage or audacity to stand their ground. They allow themselves to be abused over and over again. Not this worker here. It ain't me, babe. I'll fucking shoot em.So in addition to being a pompous windbag, you're an Internet Tough Guy(tm).

You're so fucking full of yourself, it's really pathetic.

[#FF0000]

In other words, people have looked at the "careers" available to them under capitalism, and decided they didn't want any of that shit.

Can't say I blame them.

Oh, you can't say Kronos doesn't have a point. No one wants to be exploited, but many people don't feel we/they have a choice, because for them, it's be exploited and make a modest living or be not exploited and obscenely poor. People who don't work because they don't want to be exploited either:

1) are dirt poor and cool with it, like beatniks and folk singers and all around cool folks like that (who I am a-okay with)

or

2)they don't need to work to live comfortably, such as people who can rely heavily on their parents for money. (who I'm not so keen on)

I think more of the people that use "exploitation" as a reason to not work fall into category 2 than category 1.

[Lector Malibu]

I've had a variety of jobs over the years. I am not a "high school student" or anyone that is a stranger to dirty work legitimate or shady.

Cracked logic what's up with the trying to find out info about people remark? Why not just ask? Instead of trying extrapolate idiotic assumptions like your opening post? :rolleyes:

[More Fire for the People]

I'm a poor student from a working class background. WASP? Kind of, but too much not-WASP in there not to count.

[Kronos]

In other words, people have looked at the "careers" available to them under capitalism, and decided they didn't want any of that shit.

No. I am saying that there are people who ascribe to communism because they think that everything should be "free", that life is a free ride on a merry-go-round and that money grows on trees.

I've seen teenage punk kids with chips on their shoulders the size of Wisconsin working at McDonalds who can't even put french-fries into a basket without making a mess....and yet these little pricks think they have a right to complain about being screwed "by the man"? No. That shit don't cut it. First, become valuable, become highly skilled, become an asset.....then complain about being exploited. If you cannot even perform the simplest of tasks, what good are you? People want to think that we are "equal", that we deserve what someone else deserves, and yet half of these people cannot tie their own shoes. No. You are as valuable as your capacity to work and produce. Nothing more.

[Vendetta]

Wow, RSOA, I thought all you southern californians were fit, tanned, and lived on toasted wheatberries, bean sprouts, and brewers yeast. Seriously, do you sell a lot of ice cream sundaes in there? Hey, I'll tell you something really funny about DQ:

I went inside of a DQ in Alexandria, Louisiana once and there was thick, black smoke hanging in the air. I asked the weary looking cashier what was up with the smoke:

"Oh, it always gets lak that when we need to change the grease."

I swear that happened! I didn't buy anything.

Socal? I don't live there right now, I live in South Carolina. However, I do want to move back.

Seriously though, DQ makes me hate people. And yes, there are lots of problems all the time with the equipment. But grease? :confused: Gotta say that never happened to us.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Oh, you can't say Kronos doesn't have a point. No one wants to be exploited, but many people don't feel we/they have a choice, because for them, it's be exploited and make a modest living or be not exploited and obscenely poor. People who don't work because they don't want to be exploited either:

1) are dirt poor and cool with it, like beatniks and folk singers and all around cool folks like that (who I am a-okay with)

or

2)they don't need to work to live comfortably, such as people who can rely heavily on their parents for money. (who I'm not so keen on)

I think more of the people that use "exploitation" as a reason to not work fall into category 2 than category 1.

You still haven't explained why being in category 2 is worse than being in category 1... If someone has the option of living with their parents and their parents are cool with that, just what exactly is the problem?


No. I am saying that there are people who ascribe to communism because they think that everything should be "free", that life is a free ride on a merry-go-round and that money grows on trees.

Newsflash: under communism, everything will be "free" for the asking, and money will no longer exist. People will do work that they find stimulating, and not grind away at some shitwork just to put food on the table.


I've seen teenage punk kids with chips on their shoulders the size of Wisconsin working at McDonalds who can't even put french-fries into a basket without making a mess....and yet these little pricks think they have a right to complain about being screwed "by the man"? No. That shit don't cut it. First, become valuable, become highly skilled, become an asset.....then complain about being exploited.That assumes they haven't already tried that and met with disappointment - it's getting increasingly difficult to get a decent education. As for spilling the fries... why should they give a fuck about a job with no future, minimal if not nonexistant benefits, and that holds no interest for them whatsoever? Work in the service sector is shit, shit, shit.


If you cannot even perform the simplest of tasks, what good are you? People want to think that we are "equal", that we deserve what someone else deserves, and yet half of these people cannot tie their own shoes. No. You are as valuable as your capacity to work and produce. Nothing more.That is to all intents and purposes a capitalist attitude.

[#FF0000]

You still haven't explained why being in category 2 is worse than being in category 1... If someone has the option of living with their parents and their parents are cool with that, just what exactly is the problem?

I'm just saying that it's very easy to refuse to submit to exploitation when you can live comfortably off of your parents.

[Kronos]

Newsflash: under communism, everything will be "free" for the asking, and money will no longer exist. People will do work that they find stimulating, and not grind away at some shitwork just to put food on the table.

Not hardly. Nothing will be "free for the asking". If this were true, there would be no reason to deny anyone, anything. Joe will not get a Corvette simply because he wants it.

What is provided for workers is a decision made by a democratic vote, which means that many people decide what you get and what you need. Since it would be impossible for a single committee consisting of five people to decide what every individual in a global society composed of 4.8 billion people should get, several committees will be set up, each consisting of an organized hierarchical system. Decisions will be made through an open ballot system.


People will do work that they find stimulating, and not grind away at some shitwork just to put food on the table.

There is no such thing as "shit work". It is the context surrounding and involving that work that makes it "shit". Putting french-fries in a basket is a necessary job. What makes it "shit" is the fact that a capitalist has the advantage of owning more property as a direct result of profiting from the labor of the job.

The translation is this: the wide screen TV that the capitalist bought with the money he made from selling the fries that the worker produced is a physical manifestation of the workers labor....not the capitalist's.

So the job is a "shit" job because the worker will always make a wage that is less than the profit made from selling the fries he prepared. And as if that wasn't bad enough, the person who gets the profit, the capitalist, isn't even doing anything in the chain or production.

Furthermore, part of the attitude taken about such a job is the result of other social discourses which function because of false ideologies and fetishisms. The consumer believes that he is not as important if he flips burgers for a living, because society has a mentality that has become conditioned to attribute worth to wealth. The worker then feels alienated and ashamed of himself because he has such a job.

Also, people do not get to pick and choose what jobs they have on a whim. Despite whether or not Joe finds landscaping "stimulating", if he is does not perform the job efficiently he should not have it. Again the democratic process is necessary.

[Pogue]

Why justify such a question with a serious response? The guy asking the question is clearly a ****

[Unicorn]

You still haven't explained why being in category 2 is worse than being in category 1... If someone has the option of living with their parents and their parents are cool with that, just what exactly is the problem?
If the parents are working-class they are forced to sacrifice a part of their small income to support someone who should be old enough to find a job himself. The parents maybe don't want to drive their child to the street but shame on his lazy ass.

[Comrade Rage]

so, i like to look at peoples profile information in an attempt to learn what i can about them. is everyone on here unemployed?!:blink::blink:
i bet easily 2/3 of this site is populated by high school age, W.A.S.P's who think they're nonconformist cuz they claim to be socialist/communist/anarchist/whatever bullshit faction you align yourself with.
please, those of you with jobs, illuminate me. show me i'm wrong, please god let me be wrong!!:crying::blink::bored:

I'm unemployed because I live in the Rust Belt, assface. Currently I'm taking my GED so maybe I can dream of getting a job.

You know, not everyone is unemployed by choice. Has that ever entered your mind?

Seriously, if you don't like the people here then go. No one's got a gun to your head. Don't let the door hit you where your mom split you.:thumbdown:

[JazzRemington]

i bet easily 2/3 of this site is populated by high school age, W.A.S.P's who think they're nonconformist cuz they claim to be socialist/communist/anarchist/whatever bullshit faction you align yourself with.

I'll have you know, good sir, that I am not a high school student.

[Led Zeppelin]

No, I am not unemployed, I work at a school as a caretaker.

There goes that "theory".

[Sentinel]

Hi Sentinel, I heard this one before and think it's really interesting. I believe I actually read a similar quote by a capitalist: "we need a certain percentage of the population to be unemployed".

I admit I don't really understand that at all. Could you explain to me how that works? (no sarcasm, I just genuinely don't get it).

Thanks!


Pretty much like Jacob already explained, the capitalist's business benefits from having a high unemployment rate, because it keeps the wages down and prevents the workers from otherwise making demands. We are made exchangable, and are forced to compete with each other when selling our labour power -- the capitalists then buy it from those who make the 'best offer', ie demand least.

This is why the bourgeoisie fears a shortage of labour power, and actively works to maintain unemployment..

[chimx]

I'm a union commerical roofer and waterproofer. I work with hot tar, cold-process, single-ply (tpo, pvc, hypalon, epdm), hydrotech, torch down, as well as some other random roofing and water proofing systems. I can also lay down shingles pretty damn fast, but I really dislike doing so.

[Sam_b]

The question isn't necessarily about finding a job, but finding a job that allows you to survive. The economy in crisis, rising prices of food and the credit crunch are all meaning that working class people are having to work longer hours for less pay. I'd be interested to know your circumstances, Killfacer, and if you're able to pay rent, food, bills and still have some left over to try and enojy life on an ASDA wage alone; without having to work backbreaking hours. You seem to have no idea of worrying about how you can live or feed yourself if the next pay cheque is small.

Currently i'm working two jobs in order to have enough money to continue my studies. I have the utmost respect for workers that have to do this for years at a time.

[Pirate turtle the 11th]

Pretty much like Jacob already explained, the capitalist's business benefits from having a high unemployment rate, because it keeps the wages down and prevents the workers from otherwise making demands. We are made exchangable, and are forced to compete with each other when selling our labour power -- the capitalists then buy it from those who make the 'best offer', ie demand least.

This is why the bourgeoisie fears a shortage of labour power, and actively works to maintain unemployment..

Warning the bellow post contains a dickhead question

But how does the bourgeoisie work to maintain unemployment?

[Demogorgon]

Warning the bellow post contains a dickhead question

But how does the bourgeoisie work to maintain unemployment?

There are a number of ways, but principally they keep the supply of money low enough that aggregate demand does not rise high enough that full employment is necessary to meet it. When you see policies to combat inflation, this is essentially what they are doing.

[Pirate turtle the 11th]

There are a number of ways, but principally they keep the supply of money low enough that aggregate demand does not rise high enough that full employment is necessary to meet it. When you see policies to combat inflation, this is essentially what they are doing.

Cheers

[Bud Struggle]

Also, here in America they like to bring in inexpensive foreign labor from Mexico and flood the market with people that don't want unions, don't have any attachment to their location or jobs and don't want any fringe benefits like healthcare. Chimx must run into this problem in his job, I'm guessing.

Maybe you have something similar in Britain?

And an aside: you all seem to be a really smart group of people for the jobs you actually have....you are all pretty well under employed.

[Sam_b]

Also, here in America they like to bring in inexpensive foreign labor from Mexico and flood the market with people that don't want unions, don't have any attachment to their location or jobs and don't want any fringe benefits like healthcare.

This might be an idiotic question, so I apologise beforehand: i'm pretty tired, and I don't want to twist your words.

But is this the idea that immigrant labour apparently 'steals our jobs' and the likes? Because if so, this argument has been rubbished countless times already.

[chimx]

Also, here in America they like to bring in inexpensive foreign labor from Mexico and flood the market with people that don't want unions, don't have any attachment to their location or jobs and don't want any fringe benefits like healthcare. Chimx must run into this problem in his job, I'm guessing.

I would say about half of the people I work with are immigrants, though I work at a shop that has a higher proportion of immigrant labor than other union shops. Immigration is an issue with no simple solutions, but I think it is important to remember that it is not an issue of immigrant labor "not wanting" unions or benefits, but rather they are often put in a position where they have few choices. I've only ran into a handful of immigrants that turn down joining unions because they don't want to pay dues and are willing to sacrifice healthcare, pension, and a vacation plan for not having to pay a monthly due that is only about 85 bucks.

[Bud Struggle]

This might be an idiotic question, so I apologise beforehand: i'm pretty tired, and I don't want to twist your words.

But is this the idea that immigrant labour apparently 'steals our jobs' and the likes? Because if so, this argument has been rubbished countless times already.

Well, they keep the wages low and give the employers a broader base of people to employ. What political "spin" one wants to put on it after that--it's up to you.

[Bud Struggle]

I would say about half of the people I work with are immigrants, though I work at a shop that has a higher proportion of immigrant labor than other union shops. Immigration is an issue with no simple solutions, but I think it is important to remember that it is not an issue of immigrant labor "not wanting" unions or benefits, but rather they are often put in a position where they have few choices. I've only ran into a handful of immigrants that turn down joining unions because they don't want to pay dues and are willing to sacrifice healthcare, pension, and a vacation plan for not having to pay a monthly due that is only about 85 bucks.

Entirely right. Two thing come into factor--in their own country they worked a dollar a day so when they come to the US four dollars an hour is a fortune. And also a lot of these people are illegal and don't want to create much of a fuss--so they take what ever's given to them and keep their mouths shut.

[chimx]

And also a lot of these people are illegal and don't want to create much of a fuss--so they take what ever's given to them and keep their mouths shut.

Exactly. Finding a person to employ undocumented immigrants isn't easy. You can't join unions* as they require papers, so it is certainly not in their favor to struggle. Again, short of amnesty, there is no simple solution.

* I've worked with a handful of undocumented workers who were able to join the union by producing counterfeit immigration papers, but inevitably the banks always catch up with them after about 6 to 9 months and they have to quit.

[Bud Struggle]

Exactly. Finding a person to employ undocumented immigrants isn't easy. You can't join unions* as they require papers, so it is certainly not in their favor to struggle. Again, short of amnesty, there is no simple solution.

* I've worked with a handful of undocumented workers who were able to join the union by producing counterfeit immigration papers, but inevitably the banks always catch up with them after about 6 to 9 months and they have to quit.

Here in Florida (not that I know anything for sure, of course :)) but almost all undocumenteds go through "emplotment agencies" that handle all the paperwork for the employers and actually "rent" the illegal to the employer. When someone government agency gets interested in the employee--they disappear for a while. It's a revolving door. But no one is interested in signing too many pieces of paper or getting too well known.

Unions are problematical--the employer have a vested interest in keeping the illegal employed--the unions not so much so the illegals rather not get involved.

[RedKnight]

Incedently, I am un-employed. I work as an aluminum scrap metal scavenger though. I do not have a car and/or driver's liscence, which is the main reason why I am not employed by anyone. Plus there is no demand for labor, in the area where I live, in a camper, on my parent's property. Oh and I'm 25 years old too. All people should be able ideally to work according to there abilities, and be compensated according to there needs. If the labor market can not accomidate the need for livelihood, then capitalism must be inadequit in meeting the needs of the populace.

[Kronos]

I want you to look at the bigger picture here, Tom, and tell me with a straight face that you permit such circumstances.

Basically you have a capitalist country that is neighbored by a relatively primitive country. How convenient for the capitalists. In politics, which is only the "entertainment branch of industry", the immigration policy platform claims that by allowing Hispanics to become American citizens, America is extending democracy to other ethnic groups.

At first glance, the typical American family says to each other over dinner "isn't this great?! America is such a wonderful country. We try our best to help everyone, yada, yada."

What they do not say is "you know, it seems to me that while it appears as if America has an interest in the welfare of its neighboring countries, the real incentive for the immigration policy is to import cheaper labor so that profits can be maximized. As a result, the native American workers lose jobs due to the competition created by the immigrant workers....who happen to settle for lower wages. Hmm. Suddenly this whole deal seems a bit shady. Clearly America considers its working class to be expendable."

The truth is, socialism should have already been established decades ago, and primitive neighboring countries should have already been involved in a cooperative effort with other countries to develop their industries.

What capitalism does is a sleight-of-hand. First, it secures itself in a country and becomes an industrial superpower. Next, it begins to export jobs to foreign countries (see Lenin's theory of Imperialism), and then it begins to let people from other countries enter and participate in the work force.

The sleight-of-hand is here: the capitalist superpower, as opportunist as it is, takes advantage of the fact that neighboring countries will envy the quality of life of its own consumers and want to become a citizen so that they too can have such a life style.

So the capitalist country established itself. Then it closes its doors to the rest of the world. Finally, when its own working class citizens become exhausted from being exploited for generations at a time, it forgets about them, opens its doors, and lets the next batch of workers in to be exploited.

[RedKnight]

I want you to look at the bigger picture here, Tom, and tell me with a straight face that you permit such circumstances.

Basically you have a capitalist country that is neighbored by a relatively primitive country. How convenient for the capitalists. In politics, which is only the "entertainment branch of industry", the immigration policy platform claims that by allowing Hispanics to become American citizens, America is extending democracy to other ethnic groups.

At first glance, the typical American family says to each other over dinner "isn't this great?! America is such a wonderful country. We try our best to help everyone, yada, yada."

What they do not say is "you know, it seems to me that while it appears as if America has an interest in the welfare of its neighboring countries, the real incentive for the immigration policy is to import cheaper labor so that profits can be maximized. As a result, the native American workers lose jobs due to the competition created by the immigrant workers....who happen to settle for lower wages. Hmm. Suddenly this whole deal seems a bit shady. Clearly America considers its working class to be expendable."

The truth is, socialism should have already been established decades ago, and primitive neighboring countries should have already been involved in a cooperative effort with other countries to develop their industries.

What capitalism does is a sleight-of-hand. First, it secures itself in a country and becomes an industrial superpower. Next, it begins to export jobs to foreign countries (see Lenin's theory of Imperialism), and then it begins to let people from other countries enter and participate in the work force.

The sleight-of-hand is here: the capitalist superpower, as opportunist as it is, takes advantage of the fact that neighboring countries will envy the quality of life of its own consumers and want to become a citizen so that they too can have such a life style.

So the capitalist country established itself. Then it closes its doors to the rest of the world. Finally, when its own working class citizens become exhausted from being exploited for generations at a time, it forgets about them, opens its doors, and lets the next batch of workers in to be exploited. Even before this occurance though, after the Civil War, freed black slaves were brought up north to serve as "scab" labor. http://www.wisegeek.com/in-labor-terms-what-is-a-scab.htm So capitalists have always pitted one race of people against another, in order to undercut the workforce. Here was what A. Phillip Randolph had to say about the subject. http://historymatters.gmu.edu/d/5125/

[chimx]

Here in Florida (not that I know anything for sure, of course ) but almost all undocumenteds go through "emplotment agencies" that handle all the paperwork for the employers and actually "rent" the illegal to the employer.

I wasn't aware of this. How do those kind of agencies not have charges filed against them?

[Sentinel]

You can't join unions* as they require papers, so it is certainly not in their favor to struggle.


Does the IWW, or other syndicalist unions around there, work to organise the 'paperless' and fight for their rights?

The SAC in Sweden is currently focusing on that a lot, and has started a register for them. Link (http://coopsite.sac.se/en/withoutpaper.html)

[Bud Struggle]

I wasn't aware of this. How do those kind of agencies not have charges filed against them?

They don't hire all illegals, just some and they mix them in with the general workforce. A hotel in Orlando may have 40 employees--housekeepers, all are actually employed by a agency and contracted out to the hotel. Maybe 15 are illegal. They have "papers" that look pretty good, but those employees are switched out every so often--given different names and sent somewhere else.

The hotel has nothing to do with who the agency hires and sends there so they are in the clear. The agency moves peole around enough so there isn't a lot of interest and frankly--at least here--nobody cares.

[Bud Struggle]

Does the IWW, or other syndicalist unions around there, work to organise the 'paperless' and fight for their rights?

The SAC in Sweden is currently focusing on that a lot, and has started a register for them. Link (http://coopsite.sac.se/en/withoutpaper.html)

I honestly haven't seen or heard of much union activity. The big resorts in Florida like Disney have unions but they aren't where the illegals go to get hired.

Florida is a right to work state and a lot of the business is in hospitality--thousands of privatly owned hotels that hire seasonally. It might be pretty hard to organize workers like that. The workers come for the season and leave before anyone takes much of an interest.

I'm no union expert--I don't really know how they could do it.

[Kronos]

As a construction worker, I'm sure chimx would agree that Hispanic construction workers are as good as, if not better than, American construction workers. Their attitudes and work ethics are superior to American construction workers in many ways.

Just wanted to say that.

I personally take no issue with Hispanic construction workers and would actually do the same if I were one of them. Even the illegal immigrants have my sympathy. I'd jump the border too, to come to America.

One part of this situation that proves problems exist in principle in a capitalist free-market system is the fact that there is the very possibility of an employer being able to employ an illegal worker and get away with it, somehow, through a few maneuvers in accounting and a few tax write-offs.

So perhaps the public should think twice and switch perspectives when judging the illegal immigrants that "take our jobs." Isn't the fact that this is even possible evidence that it is the system that encourages this kind of "problem". Why is it even possible for capitalists to get away with employing illegal immigrants?

Given the conditions of the economy in Mexico, and the "lure" of the American lifestyle, accompanied with the fact that moving to America illegally is not an immediately dangerous, horrible, destructive, immoral, irresponsible, unethical thing, wouldn't you secretly cross the border and lay bricks for a dude under the table for ten dollars an hour?

Seriously, if you were Pedro...would you think like Kant and act imperatively, staying in Mexico to milk goats for a living, for the rest of your life?

No you wouldn't.

Would you think: if all of Mexico crossed the border illegally....it would be chaos. Therefore it is my deontological duty to not cross the border.

No you wouldn't.

I say more power to em. In fact, I'm going to buy a large cargo van and I'm going down there to pick some up.

[chimx]

Does the IWW, or other syndicalist unions around there, work to organise the 'paperless' and fight for their rights?

I doubt if the IWW does. AFL-CIO unions will because we have to work with banks with our pension funds, vacation funds, and insurance companies too. The AFL-CIO union doesn't care if people have correct papers or not really, but banks and insurance companies will spot falsified documents and that forces the union to kick 'em out, lest all the other workers in the union suffer.

I imagine if the IWW in the US won the demands made by their AFL-CIO counterparts, they would have the same problem. Similarly, if the IWW was to have a significant legal battle, the undocumented membership would no doubt be at a great risk for deportation.


wouldn't you secretly cross the border and lay bricks for a dude under the table for ten dollars an hour?

I think it is naive to expect it not to happen. Unfortunately it is very divisive in the work place. This example you cite hits extra close to home for me. My uncle is a union mason down in Phoenix Arisona. He had been making about $25/hr plus benefits years back and had been working with the union all this life. Recently they passed right-to-work legislation so that employers could higher non-skilled masons to lay down bricks for $10/hr that weren't in the union. Literally overnight his wage dropped to about $14/hr despite being a very skilled mason all of his life. This is a reality for many union workers and one has to bare this in mind when dealing with the immigration issue and the "stealing our jobs" mentality.

[Bud Struggle]

I say more power to em. In fact, I'm going to buy a large cargo van and I'm going down there to pick some up.


Please do drop some my way!:)

Seriously--if I was a poor Mexican, I'd do the same. All the same, the illegals broaden the work base and keep plenty of inexpensive labor available. As has been pointed out on this forum many times--I'm no economist--but I am a businessman and that works out in my favor as an employer.

[Robert]

Do be careful, my dude.

Sorry if that sounded preachy. Although I note "preachers" (but not fascists, LOL) are allowed to post on OI.

[Bud Struggle]

Do be careful, my dude.

http://www.mondaq.com/article.asp?articleid=57918

I have never hired an illegal alien. I never will. BUT they broaden the workforce in Florida EMENSELY. You don't have to hire one to see the effects of their presence in the worker marketplace. I could fire my entire workforce tomorrow (not that I ever would,) and have a whole factory full of new people in there at $3 less an hour in half a day.

Thanks for the heads up, though. :thumbup1:

[Killfacer]

3 dollars an hour? Thats a business move that cannot be missed tom!

[chimx]

Not really. There are serious fines if you are caught knowingly employing undocumented workers.

[Killfacer]

i was joking... Not only could you get fined its clearly wrong to pay someone that little.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

I'm just saying that it's very easy to refuse to submit to exploitation when you can live comfortably off of your parents.

That's the "lottery" that is capitalism. Yes, it's unfair. But attacking lucky individuals serves no useful purpose - it is far better to criticise and actively attack the system that creates "winners" and "losers".


Not hardly. Nothing will be "free for the asking". If this were true, there would be no reason to deny anyone, anything. Joe will not get a Corvette simply because he wants it.

Sure, one could ask for a Corvette - but that doesn't garuantee that one will actually get a Corvette. People in communist society do get decide what to do with the fruits of their labour, after all.


What is provided for workers is a decision made by a democratic vote, which means that many people decide what you get and what you need. Since it would be impossible for a single committee consisting of five people to decide what every individual in a global society composed of 4.8 billion people should get, several committees will be set up, each consisting of an organized hierarchical system. Decisions will be made through an open ballot system.

Sounds like an oligarchy in the making. A far better idea would be to have a "swipe-card" system that tracks usage patterns and provides recommendations to collectives accordingly. These recommendations would be strictly "non-binding" - remember that nobody has the power of command in a communist society.


There is no such thing as "shit work". It is the context surrounding and involving that work that makes it "shit".

Debatable. Who really "chooses" to spend their life flipping burgers and/or sweeping the streets?


Furthermore, part of the attitude taken about such a job is the result of other social discourses which function because of false ideologies and fetishisms. The consumer believes that he is not as important if he flips burgers for a living, because society has a mentality that has become conditioned to attribute worth to wealth.

That's because under capitalism one's "worth" is decided by one's wealth.

One's wealth also decides one's quality of life. If one's job only provides a bare minimum of wealth, and hence quality of life, why should anyone care about the quality of their McWork beyond making sure they don't lose it and hence suffer a decrease in wealth/quality of life?


If the parents are working-class they are forced to sacrifice a part of their small income to support someone who should be old enough to find a job himself. The parents maybe don't want to drive their child to the street but shame on his lazy ass.

They are not "forced" to sacrifice any part of their wealth to their children if they are legally considered adults. If the parents would rather support their child/ren than kick them out on the streets, then is that not a good thing? In any case, it is very rare that people continue to live with their parents throughout adulthood, at least not without themselves getting a job - the cost of living is getting worse and worse for the vast majority of people under capitalism, and it is often much easier to pool monetary resources and live in the spare bedroom than pay exorbitant rents.

[Devrim]

40s, work at a telecommunications company.

Devrim

[Garbanzo]

I am a High School Student. I skipped 7th and 8th grade and I am going in to 12th grade. I prefer to work from "the inside out". Youth like me our the future. I try to Enlighten as many colleagues as I can. So far, So good.

GET OFF THE COMPUTER AND READ A BOOK!

[Killfacer]

shut up you dick. Your an arrogant idiot.

[Bud Struggle]

shut up you dick. Your an arrogant idiot.

:thumbup: It couldn't have been phrased more elequently! :thumbup:

Good job, Killfacer.

[Pirate turtle the 11th]

shut up you dick. Your an arrogant idiot.

this

[Jazzratt]

I am a High School Student. I skipped 7th and 8th grade and I am going in to 12th grade.

Presumably you're intelligent enough to have wondered what sort of effects that might have on your social development. From what I've seen of people that skip years in school they tend to be either childlike or (as I can see happening to you) unbearably pompous.


I prefer to work from "the inside out".

From inside what? I'm afraid that from inside your high school environment you're not going to do much to capitalism.


Youth like me our the future. I try to Enlighten as many colleagues as I can. So far, So good.

While I would love to think that you and your snotty brat friends will continue on your "enlightened path" I can see you, at best, becoming an arrogant champagne socialist or siding with a bourgeois political faction (at the very best some kind of left-liberalism).


GET OFF THE COMPUTER AND READ A BOOK!

False dichotomy right there, with sites like the anarchy archives, marxist.org and various other websites which allow you to view or download books I can stay on the computer and read a book. The advantage with this is I can also go on to a site (like this one) and discuss the book or knowlege I have gleaned from reading it with others.

Basically what I'm trying to say is stop being an arrogant prat or shut the fuck up.

[apathy maybe]

I work the streets. It's tough work, but pays well. You have to make sure that you have protection, and some of the johns are bit fucked up, but yeah.

Seriously, the first post in this thread sounded really fucking trollish, what the fuck does it matter what job people do or don't do?

Honestly, I was thinking "cop question", as in, that's the sort of fucking question a cop would ask. So, what do you do? Fuck off, none of your business.

Don't feed the trolls.

[Robert]

Youth like me our the future. I try to Enlighten as many colleagues as I can. So far, So good.

Got top grades in spelling and grammar, did you?

[RedAnarchist]

Got top grades in spelling and grammar, did you?

Why, was his post so uncomprehensible that you just had to pick out insignificant little mistakes?:rolleyes:

[Robert]

Incomprehensible. And no.

But seriously, he's crowing about how brilliant he is but he writes like a 9-year-old? Maybe they let him "skip" two grades to get him the hell out of their hair.

[Killfacer]

they let him skip grades because hes an annoying little arsewipe and they probably despised him like i do.

[Kami]

What annoys me is people in England saying it is hard to get a job. Its fucking easy. As soon as i finished sixth form i got a job at asda.
What a load of bullshit; unemployment is high, over 5%. If you have any black mark on your application form, they can give the job to one of the 60 others applying to it. take it from a fellow unemployed a year yesterday, you can apply to the most bottom-of-the-barrell jobs in existance, and it's a lottery (at best) as to whether you get it.

[RedAnarchist]

Incomprehensible. And no.

But seriously, he's crowing about how brilliant he is but he writes like a 9-year-old? Maybe they let him "skip" two grades to get him the hell out of their hair.

Actually, uncomprehensible is just as acceptable as incomprehensible.

So what if he writes like a 9 year old? You do not need to have a degree in English to have your opinion worthy of consideration by others.

[Robert]

Okay, okay, you're right. About uncomprehensible. God, that's ugly.

Garbanzo, I apologize.

And I love your beans. They're great.

[Killfacer]

kami thats just not true. As long as you're willing to not have a great job its there are plenty of jobs. They've been recruiting in my local asda for like a year now. Anyone unemployed around my area anyway, is just plain picky.

[RedAnarchist]

kami thats just not true. As long as you're willing to not have a great job its there are plenty of jobs. They've been recruiting in my local asda for like a year now. Anyone unemployed around my area anyway, is just plain picky.

Areas can be very different. I bet theres much less unemployment in some leafy suburban area than there is in an urban estate. Maybe your part of the country is fortunate enough to have plenty of jobs available?

[Jazzratt]

kami thats just not true. As long as you're willing to not have a great job its there are plenty of jobs. They've been recruiting in my local asda for like a year now. Anyone unemployed around my area anyway, is just plain picky.

Bullshit. I can get to about 6 supermarkets in my area by walking/public transport, of these 4 have been recruiting and I have applied to every single one, in some cases twice. So have the rest of the unemployed population in my area and thus I have yet to get a job there. This is on top of the various other places I've applied to (I usually try to go for more jobs than is necessary to be qualified for JSA), so anyone who believes it's easy to get a job in Britian is either delusional or a lying little shit.

[Killfacer]

yeah maybe, but even people i know in london find it easy to get jobs. A family member of mine just moved to london, got a job a couple of weeks later. And he is hugely underqualified. Although, having said that, both Bristol and London are in the south of England, maybe things are worse up north. Where you live jazzratt? north, south, east or west?

[Kronos]

This is bullshit. We are going to start the insurrection and you, Tom K, are going to finance it.

You are going to employ each and every one of us here at RevLeft. The profit you produce from our work will be used to fund our revolutionary activities. You don't have to do anything Tom. All we need you for is your name and your license.

Now, where do we begin?

Are we gonna move all the US comrades to Europe or all the European blokes to the US?

[534634634265]

WOW!
i havent been on the internet for a few days, and look at these responses!!
ok, so for all you whiny pansies who ***** because i claim some elite standpoint about work...
im a student, im currently unemployed, and i dont have a problem with unemployed people. early in this thread Kronos touched on the thought that lead me to create this thread. i am not a retard, or elitist, or a snob, or opposed to the poor unemployed of this world. my problem is these bullshit "armchair revolutionaries" who haven't experienced any true economic hardship or oppression because mommy and daddy pay for everything. so your a true red die hard revolutionary, thats great, but what experience do you have with the system your so opposed to? my problem is with people who talk the most shit on this website. because the great majority of shit-talkers, are also shit-walkers who have done little if any hard work in their life. what do you think the revolution is going to be like? unless your some technocratic idealist the revolution is going to be hard fucking work for everyone involved. ive worked in horrible jobs, ive worked in cushy jobs, ive been unemployed and poor, ive dealt drugs to keep myself in house and with food. i don't think this makes me any better than any of you, but its ridiculous to hear what some people here say when they have actually had ZERO experience with the system they claim oppresses them. i comment on the young high school students who flock to extreme websites such as these because they exemplify the type of person im talking about. my apologies if you are the exception, not the norm. im sure everyone here actually works long hard hours for some capitalist oppressor.:rolleyes::rolleyes:
also, sorry if i stepped on your mile long toes because "there are no jobs in ____" BULLSHIT!! what do the illegal immigrants in your area do? DO THAT TOO!! shovel shit, do masonry, landscape, work in McDonalds, but don't tell me you "can't" a job because unless your crippled or a retard i simply don't buy it.
Oh god unemployment is over whatever percent!!! so what, theres still people who need work done. go ask old people if they need work done. go ask strangers for work so you can have money, but don't ***** about how the system keeps you down when you have concept of what "the system" really is.
(braced for further shitstorm)

[Jazzratt]

ok, so for all you whiny pansies who ***** because i claim some elite standpoint about work...

"Pansy" is considered homophobic language here and as such I recommend you don't use it. Consider this a verbal warning.


i am not a retard, or elitist, or a snob, or opposed to the poor unemployed of this world. my problem is these bullshit "armchair revolutionaries" who haven't experienced any true economic hardship or oppression because mommy and daddy pay for everything.

Which set of the unemployed would this be? I've yet to encounter an unemployed person who has been swimming in money, quite the opposite in fact. Now, you may have a different (and fucking stupid) definition of "economic hardship" but I'm fairly sure we can agree having fuck all money would be somewhere near the top of that. It may well be that your parents pay for everything but to arrogantly insist that is true of all unemployed people, especially on the revleft is just another example of why you're a worthless blob of owl scat.


so your a true red die hard revolutionary, thats great, but what experience do you have with the system your so opposed to?

So you're still insisting that those who cannot afford anything, who are desperately trying to claw their way out of a meaningless existance and have become so disheartened that they're prepared to do any job as long as some fucker will employ them have no experience of the system? I also how you arrogantly assume that all the unemployed people on this board are fresh out of education and have never had a job before or anything.


my problem is with people who talk the most shit on this website.

Then stop talking shit on this website you stupid fuck.


because the great majority of shit-talkers, are also shit-walkers who have done little if any hard work in their life. what do you think the revolution is going to be like? unless your some technocratic idealist the revolution is going to be hard fucking work for everyone involved.

The technocratic revolution is just as hard as any other, jizz stain. As for you giving it the full fucking lecture on here do you not see the irony? When you're having a go at us for being "shit talkers".


ive worked in horrible jobs, ive worked in cushy jobs, ive been unemployed and poor, ive dealt drugs to keep myself in house and with food.

Well done, you've lived a life. Have a medal.


i don't think this makes me any better than any of you,

Then what's with the pompous dickery in this thread?


but its ridiculous to hear what some people here say when they have actually had ZERO experience with the system they claim oppresses them.

Again, having no source of income is not experiencing an oppressive system? On balance between being employed and being unemployed I preferred having a job.


i comment on the young high school students who flock to extreme websites such as these because they exemplify the type of person im talking about. my apologies if you are the exception, not the norm. im sure everyone here actually works long hard hours for some capitalist oppressor.:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Most people here are employed if that's what you mean.


also, sorry if i stepped on your mile long toes because "there are no jobs in ____" BULLSHIT!! what do the illegal immigrants in your area do?

Generally they either do whatever work is arranged for them by the lovely people who smuggle them over borders or they languish in "detention centres". So unless you're suggesting I scrimp and save until I can fly out of somewhere so I can a people traffiker to give me a job I don't see the relevance of your question or suggestion. Also it reeks of middle class "the illegal immagrants are taking all the jobs" bullshit.


shovel shit,

Yeah because clearly everyhwere in the world there ar just endless piles of shit that need clearing. Unless you're talking about a rural area that sort of work is very far between.


do masonry,

Point me to where there is a massive demand for untrained masons.


landscape,

Again, when there are professionals available who the hell would want to hire a single person, with no background in landscaping, to do it for you.


work in McDonalds,

McDonalds always hires fucking teenagers, because they don't have to pay them minimum wage.


but don't tell me you "can't" a job because unless your crippled or a retard i simply don't buy it.

It's not for sale, you don't have to buy it. It's the unvarnished fucking truth and if you want to pretend that everyone lives in a prosperous nation of full employment you can, but don't pretend that your pathological delusion is at all attatched to reality.


Oh god unemployment is over whatever percent!!!

You know that unemployment at a certain percentage means there is a certain percentage of people that cannot find work because there are simply more people than jobs, right?


so what, theres still people who need work done. go ask old people if they need work done. go ask strangers for work so you can have money, but don't ***** about how the system keeps you down when you have concept of what "the system" really is.

Where the fuck do you live, cloud fucking cuckoo land? Here on earth old people generally get all their shit done by volunteers or trained carers with background checks and all that shit while strangers are less than willing to give anyone a job.


(braced for further shitstorm)

You better fucking be, you steaming pile of crap.

[Lector Malibu]

WOW!
i havent been on the internet for a few days, and look at these responses!!
ok, so for all you whiny pansies who ***** because i claim some elite standpoint about work...
im a student, im currently unemployed, and i dont have a problem with unemployed people. early in this thread Kronos touched on the thought that lead me to create this thread. i am not a retard, or elitist, or a snob, or opposed to the poor unemployed of this world. my problem is these bullshit "armchair revolutionaries" who haven't experienced any true economic hardship or oppression because mommy and daddy pay for everything. so your a true red die hard revolutionary, thats great, but what experience do you have with the system your so opposed to? my problem is with people who talk the most shit on this website. because the great majority of shit-talkers, are also shit-walkers who have done little if any hard work in their life. what do you think the revolution is going to be like? unless your some technocratic idealist the revolution is going to be hard fucking work for everyone involved. ive worked in horrible jobs, ive worked in cushy jobs, ive been unemployed and poor, ive dealt drugs to keep myself in house and with food. i don't think this makes me any better than any of you, but its ridiculous to hear what some people here say when they have actually had ZERO experience with the system they claim oppresses them. i comment on the young high school students who flock to extreme websites such as these because they exemplify the type of person im talking about. my apologies if you are the exception, not the norm. im sure everyone here actually works long hard hours for some capitalist oppressor.:rolleyes::rolleyes:
also, sorry if i stepped on your mile long toes because "there are no jobs in ____" BULLSHIT!! what do the illegal immigrants in your area do? DO THAT TOO!! shovel shit, do masonry, landscape, work in McDonalds, but don't tell me you "can't" a job because unless your crippled or a retard i simply don't buy it.
Oh god unemployment is over whatever percent!!! so what, theres still people who need work done. go ask old people if they need work done. go ask strangers for work so you can have money, but don't ***** about how the system keeps you down when you have concept of what "the system" really is.
(braced for further shitstorm)


So what's the point of this really? Yes there are some people that have not been down alot of roads that some of us have. Get over it. Also I don't care for your terms you have chosen to use to describe people here.

"Pansies" Is a well known homophobic term

"Retards" Is particularly insulting to the core , as it applies to people that are born with disability's and have to learn to cope with them.

"*****ing" Is also a sexist term , based on the term "*****"

So given you're terms you have chosen , I ask what sort of revolutionary are you?

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

I actually suspect that crackedlogic is talking out of his fucking arse and has never actually worked a day in his life. He sounds like the sort of person who would pathologically lie about such stuff just to gain credibility.

I mean, just look at his posts. Do they look like the sort of posts made by someone who paid any attention at all in English classes? No capitalisation, no paragraphs to speak of, and a snotty attitude more in common with a high-school kid than someone who's "walked the walk of life".

[Bud Struggle]

So what's the point of this really? Yes there are some people that have not been down alot of roads that some of us have. Get over it. Also I don't care for your terms you have chosen to use to describe people here.

"Pansies" Is a well known homophobic term

"Retards" Is particularly insulting to the core , as it applies to people that are born with disability's and have to learn to cope with them.

"*****ing" Is also a sexist term , based on the term "*****"

So given you're terms you have chosen , I ask what sort of revolutionary are you?

I would give him "*****ing"--it's a term in general use beyond that which refers to women. :)

[Kronos]

Ladies, ladies....calm down. What is the issue here? Is all this my fault, crackedlogic? Jesus man, I didn't mean to initiate a game of "which comrade has been screwed more than the other".

Let's start over and sort through everyone's valid points.

First I should address my own paradoxical reasoning: how can I believe that a comrade should be be screwed a few dozen times before he can truly understand and embody the proletarian struggle, and, at the same time, try my best to save them the trouble of being screwed a few dozen times?

This doesn't make sense, so I must retract my insults to the kid at McDonalds who can't make french fires.

Crackedlogic, would you agree that it seems a bit sadistic to require our comrades to get fucked before they become real revolutionaries and not just "armchair" complainers?

Sure, there is something sweet and empowering about getting fucked over and over again as a worker- it is like sitting at the bar comparing battle wounds with your buddies. We respect the guys who have the most scars, but, at the same time, we are trying to prevent such scaring from happening, no?

I've got you all beaten so I can speak...cuz I'm the guy who knows his shit.

I sympathize with comrades who have to settle for "what they can get", especially those who have developed skills pertaining to specific lines of work. I know I don't want to take a job walking Mrs. Patty's Pomeranians around the block when I'm a master carpenter...nor do I want to sit on my ass and drive a steam roller like I've been doing for three days until I was cheated even out of that. I do agree with you that there are always jobs somewhere out there....but....the point I think we are all frustratingly trying to say is that WE SHOULDN'T HAVE TO hunt for a fucking job....especially because of some consequence of the capitalist system.

When we talk about job availability, we have to cite statistics in order to be accurate. I'm sure there are cities where unemployment is higher than others...but that doesn't mean that unemployment in general is increasing.

Still all that is beside the point. There should be no unemployment and that is the end of the story.

Fuck you Adam Smith. Do you see what you've done? You, Malthus and Ricardo can eat my shorts.

[KrazyRabidSheep]

so, i like to look at peoples profile information in an attempt to learn what i can about them. is everyone on here unemployed?!http://www.revleft.com/vb/../revleft/smilies2/blink.gifhttp://www.revleft.com/vb/../revleft/smilies2/blink.gif
i bet easily 2/3 of this site is populated by high school age, W.A.S.P's who think they're nonconformist cuz they claim to be socialist/communist/anarchist/whatever bullshit faction you align yourself with.
please, those of you with jobs, illuminate me. show me i'm wrong, please god let me be wrong!!http://www.revleft.com/vb/../revleft/smilies2/crying.gifhttp://www.revleft.com/vb/../revleft/smilies2/blink.gifhttp://www.revleft.com/vb/../revleft/smilies2/bored.gif
The average age of members on revleft is fairly low; so what?

I am past college age, let along high school (although I have to go back to school periodically for training and certification).

I keep no secret that I work.
I am an Emergency Medical Technician, and extremely proud of that fact.
I also take pride in belonging to a skilled labor force, and coming from a near-poverty family, relying on my own hard work and financial aid (grants, scholarships) to get to this point.

I don't claim to be a non-conformist; I have had to conform to obtain and maintain my current life (more so then I like, but no more then I am willing to do.)
Indeed, I have never met a non-conformist; only those who conform to a different standard (such as a counter-culture.)

(does all this make me a poseur or a cappie?)

I'm also religiously apathetic; although I was raised Catholic.

I think I've given enough proof that I am not a "highschool aged WASP. . .blahblahblah."

Even if I was, so what? Would my political opinion then be invalid? Not really; perhaps a bit ignorant; but I know I'm ignorant, it is the human condition.
The day I learned the most about myself was when I realized how little I really know.

[apathy maybe]

Insert generic reference to prostitution, bad pun based on same, and generic insult.

I thought better of posting the post I was going to post, but couldn't not post anything. Honestly.


Anyway, to make up for that. I personally consider never working a days work because you don't fucking want to, fine. If you can live that way, and if you are happy with that. However, for those people who actually want to work (for whatever reason, having access to more money/resources, self esteem (nasty culture that forces work on people) or whatever), it can sometimes be really hard to find work.

This is especially true for a demographic which is not represented here so much, the older (50s+) not so skilled man. (Heck even for skilled men, finding work can be hard when you are 50+.)

Who wants to train up a fella who is going to just quit or retire anyway? And they probably want more then the 19 year old who hasn't worked a fucking day.

So yeah, to fuckeduplogic, just because a person isn't working, doesn't mean that they are lazy or whatever. Sometimes it actually is fucking hard to find a job. (Especially unskilled labour in a job market that legally prevents you working unskilled labour because you are a foreigner.)

[gla22]

lifeguard. But guys we should be part of the working class not the lumpen-proletariat. Too many lazy criminals are anarchists.

[chimx]

shut up you dick. Your an arrogant idiot.

Please don't flame members on revleft. If you have questions about the rules regarding flaming or spamming, see the FAQ in the menu above.

[bcbm]

lifeguard. But guys we should be part of the working class not the lumpen-proletariat. Too many lazy criminals are anarchists.

Probably because some anarchist don't share the same fetish for work as other sections of the left. And, of course, one can be a lazy criminal and a worker.

[ipollux]

I worked during high school and college, and I've worked at a newspaper ever since graduating from the latter.

[Tungsten]

Why do you find it surprising that most of those who organise to oppose capitalism happen to belong to this group of people, who are sacrificed -- denied the opportunity to a decent living -- for the benefit of the market? Isn't that quite natural..?

Pass. Perhaps I'm too busy looking at the obvious- but I was under the impression that the working class mainly consited of people who work.

If you don't work, you can hardly claim to be exploited. In fact, even from a socialist viewpoint you're effectively an exploiter, as you're living off the backs of taxpayers (workers).


------



Many years ago, after being cheated by an employer and not compensated by the state for what was owed, I hooked my employer's house (which was a trailer) up to a tow chain and pulled it off its foundation. Prior to that, I stole anything of value from inside.

Ha ha. :laugh:

But I don't see why the state should compensate you. If you were promised one thing off this employer and he didn't give it to you, then it's your employer who ought to be paying up, not the state.

One employer I had decided to steal half of my pension legally to fund some pyramid scheme of sorts. I got the money back, though, and the best part is: the employer didn't even know about it and probably still doesn't today.

[Bud Struggle]

Many years ago, after being cheated by an employer and not compensated by the state for what was owed, I hooked my employer's house (which was a trailer) up to a tow chain and pulled it off its foundation. Prior to that, I stole anything of value from inside.


Ha ha. :laugh:

But I don't see why the state should compensate you. If you were promised one thing off this employer and he didn't give it to you, then it's your employer who ought to be paying up, not the state.

I would have to say that I would have found it pretty fishy that my employer was living a trailer! :laugh:

[Sentinel]

Pass. Perhaps I'm too busy looking at the obvious- but I was under the impression that the working class mainly consited of people who work.

Belonging to the working class or not does obviously not change when being fired, Tungsten. I thought you would have picked that much up during your years here.


If you don't work, you can hardly claim to be exploited. In fact, even from a socialist viewpoint you're effectively an exploiter, as you're living off the backs of taxpayers (workers).

If you come form the working class you belong to it regardless of your present employment situation -- unless you come to own the means of production, or otherwise become economically sovereign to the degree that you won't have to sell your labour power to live a life that deserves to be called that.

Living of welfare doesn not qualify, it's a horrible existence with the minimum you need to survive. Long term unemployed can be characterised as lumpen proles though, but that's a step down from being working class, not up. :rolleyes:

[Trystan]

please, those of you with jobs, illuminate me.

http://uk.gizmodo.com/anglepoise%20lamps%202.jpg


?

[Pawn Power]

I got two jobs fo'.

[Bilan]

I'm a student, and I work part time (5 days for the former, 4 days for latter).
You want to talk, you fucking scumbag?
I'll break your fucking jaw.
Twat.

[Killfacer]

you'll break his fucking jaw will you?

[Forward Union]

Ive worked in a Hospital for the past year, I have left in order to do volonteer work in mexico. When I go back I will get a job straight away again, otherwise I wont be able to pay for accomodation etc...

[Baconator]

I just landed a position as a regional manager here. I have never been unemployed even if it meant making less in a transitional period. Unfortunately I do know a lot of unemployed people that have a hard time making it.

[Plagueround]

Data center technician for a search engine here. Before that I was washing dishes at a restaurant after losing a phone tech job for trying to negotiate better pay for myself and my coworkers.

[cappin]

I have reason to believe the poster "Kronos" could be in trouble. If you have any information regarding his disappearance please contact me.

[email protected]
828-719-0976

This is not a prank. I appreciate your help.

[534634634265]

holy cow, im back.
well, it looks like the shitstorm i was expecting continued to rain down. where i come from pansy isnt a homophobic term, so apologies to anyone who was offended. also, *****in isnt sexist, its just a phrase used to refer to something like "sweet" or "rad". so many people took offense at this, but if you look through this whole thread this is my 3rd post only. i likely didn't say any of the things that got you all so riled up. my problem is that people who have no experience as members of the working class try and claim membership in it. i don't see a problem with not working because your opposed to the idea, or not working and still saying your a revolutionary, but surely it makes sense that one must have experienced a hardship to have an understanding of it? i'm not black, so i'll never know firsthand the injustice of racism. i'm also not mentally or physically challenged so i'll never understand how hurtful the term "retard" or "cripple" can be. obviously people took great offense at this thread. i don't seek out being an offensive person, so let me apologize for that. my purpose of starting this thread was to see if my perception of the majority of people here as unemployed whiners was correct or false. clearly from the large quantity of replies involving employed people, i was wrong. i dont think anyone got past the first wave of unbridled aggression to even ask why i posted it. i can't tell, its hard to read through 6 pages of flames, rants, and intermingled reasonable replies.

[Lost In Translation]

I have reason to believe the poster "Kronos" could be in trouble. If you have any information regarding his disappearance please contact me.

[email protected]
828-719-0976

This is not a prank. I appreciate your help.
Oh man, what happened? Even though he's an OI'er, I'm still concerned

EDIT: Yes, I am gullible, but this sounds pretty legitimate.:(

[Shekky Shabazz]

If it hasn't already been posted in this thread, from the subforum sticky...

"Of course the general community rules are still valid here: No posts which are rascist, anti-semitic, sexist, homophobic, knowingly false and/or defamatory, hateful, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy."

[Zurdito]

my problem is that people who have no experience as members of the working class try and claim membership in it. i don't see a problem with not working because your opposed to the idea, or not working and still saying your a revolutionary, but surely it makes sense that one must have experienced a hardship to have an understanding of it?

Personally I have had many low paid jobs etc., and been through state education, (my family background is complicated so let´s not get into what class I think I am!), but here goes:

I´m not a communsit primarily because I feel sorry for the working class and want to help the poor little guys out of their hardship, and I don´t think is the reasoning behind genuine marxism. there are groups who in many cases suffer more hardship than workers - like many peasants and many lumpenproletariats - but who don´t have the same progressive role.

No, while yes of course I do have a sense of outrage at hardship etc., this in itself would only lead someone to liberalism/reformism, to charity, or to unchannelled anger. the real reason I am a marxist is because I understand that our society is divided into a class which produces value - the working class - and a class which keeps the wealth produced - the bourgeoisie. therefore for human progress, it´s necessarry to overthrow the bourgeosie and create a system where we all produce and all benefit collectively.

so, I don´t see why I would need to be working class or to have ever had a job, just to have that basic understanding, in fact as many have said, Marx himself discovered these laws without being working class.

having said that, I do agree that when it comes into issues of strategy and tactics, no militant can be of any use unless they are withint he workers movement or have regular feedback from it as part of a party rooted in the workers movement. on the other hand, I would encourage as many communists as pssible to go to university and not deliberately "proletarianise" themselves.

[534634634265]

Personally I have had many low paid jobs etc., and been through state education, (my family background is complicated so let´s not get into what class I think I am!), but here goes:

I´m not a communsit primarily because I feel sorry for the working class and want to help the poor little guys out of their hardship, and I don´t think is the reasoning behind genuine marxism. there are groups who in many cases suffer more hardship than workers - like many peasants and many lumpenproletariats - but who don´t have the same progressive role.

No, while yes of course I do have a sense of outrage at hardship etc., this in itself would only lead someone to liberalism/reformism, to charity, or to unchannelled anger. the real reason I am a marxist is because I understand that our society is divided into a class which produces value - the working class - and a class which keeps the wealth produced - the bourgeoisie. therefore for human progress, it´s necessarry to overthrow the bourgeosie and create a system where we all produce and all benefit collectively.

so, I don´t see why I would need to be working class or to have ever had a job, just to have that basic understanding, in fact as many have said, Marx himself discovered these laws without being working class.

having said that, I do agree that when it comes into issues of strategy and tactics, no militant can be of any use unless they are within the workers movement or have regular feedback from it as part of a party rooted in the workers movement. on the other hand, I would encourage as many communists as pssible to go to university and not deliberately "proletarianise" themselves.

thanks for a reasonable response. wasn't marx also poor for part of his life as well? i would include abject poverty in my "firsthand experience of capitalist oppression" catalogue.
(i agree that an education is important, but i think many people in the US don't take full advantage of the free schooling you can get. off topic.)
i think you're on point with your comment about the progressive footing of the proletariat, but my problem lies in those who claim membership in this group without knowledge of its troubles.
i guess i resent those who haven't had to get the "you've had a life" medal i was told about earlier in this thread.:rolleyes:
i don't think you must be working class or poor to be a revolutionary, but your understanding of the struggles these groups face is limited without experience. i don't have beef with anyone, except the fake. shouldn't we all be trying to lead revolutionary lives, not just posting hateful messages on a forum? i noticed that a lot of the profiles i read listed the person as unemployed, so i started a thread simply to see who had a job, or at least what experience people had in being revolutionary. i never expected it would detonate into what it became.

[RedAnarchist]

I have reason to believe the poster "Kronos" could be in trouble. If you have any information regarding his disappearance please contact me.

[email protected]
828-719-0976

This is not a prank. I appreciate your help.

Do you know Kronos in real life?

[cappin]

Yes:(

He is my boyfriend.

[RedAnarchist]

Ok.

Well, does he live near you in North Carolina? Is disappearing something not characteristic of him?

[cappin]

Well, no not right now. I'm in Florida. That's what's worrying me. He's always online and he always contacts me every day. I've called him numerous times and left messages but gotten no reply.

He's not very popular among a lot of people we know irl. I'm scared that there are people who want him dead, and when I'm not there and he's all alone it makes things very risky.

[comrade stalin guevara]

I have a job but to tell the truth im sick of being a wage slave, why does it matter if we have jobs or not and in regards to the youth thing thanks alot genius you have alienated them it would not surprise me if they become right wing because of you, however i belive the young comrades here wont be fazed just stop alienateing our revolutionarys please

[Bud Struggle]

Well, no not right now. I'm in Florida. That's what's worrying me. He's always online and he always contacts me every day. I've called him numerous times and left messages but gotten no reply.

He's not very popular among a lot of people we know irl. I'm scared that there are people who want him dead, and when I'm not there and he's all alone it makes things very risky.

Do you know him from RevLeft or some other site?

I'd be careful of him. I'm sure he's a nice person in person--but here seems a bit whacked out. I wish him well, but be careful.

[Luís Henrique]

so, i like to look at peoples profile information in an attempt to learn what i can about them. is everyone on here unemployed?!:blink::blink:

I can't speak for the others, but I have probably a better job than you will ever expect to obtain.

Luís Henrique

[Bud Struggle]

I can't speak for the others, but I have probably a better job than you will ever expect to obtain.

Luís Henrique

You are OI material--please join, Luis.

Tom

[Sendo]

I have to agree with TomK on this. That sort of occupational elitism is more fit for OI.

And on-topic: I'm a high school teacher, teaching English in Korea. Though I'd like to be a history teacher after I'm done with the ESL gig.

[534634634265]

@Comrade whatever- your posts are really difficult to read. if you think i'm going to alienate the youth, try bringing them to the cause with your illegible text.:laugh:

i'm in school to be a graphic designer, though i'm not sure where that will take me in the end.:blushing:
honestly, i could care less what political/economic system is in power. i plan to exploit it mercilessly in order to provide the best life for myself and my daughter. if i'm lucky, the system provides all that i need, and all that my daughter needs, and i don't need to exploit anything. until we live in that socialist utopia, i'll continue to be a judgemental twat who views the unemployed as slackers, and the uneducated as wasted potential. its all just our opinions right?:)

[Kami]

i noticed that a lot of the profiles i read listed the person as unemployed, so i started a thread simply to see who had a job, or at least what experience people had in being revolutionary. i never expected it would detonate into what it became.
It exploded because you didn't ues the head I can only assume you have. You ask for people with experience at being oppressed by the capitalist system, and don't stop for a moment to think hey, maybe these guys are being arseraped by the system too! Those of us without jobs are likely not that way by choice, but because there either are no jobs, or we're in some way deemed unsuitable for employment. Both of those situations we have Capitalism to thank for.


ll continue to be a judgemental twat who views the unemployed as slackers, and the uneducated as wasted potential.
Fine, so long as I can judge you as an ignorant waste of air.

[Zurdito]

honestly, i could care less what political/economic system is in power. i plan to exploit it mercilessly in order to provide the best life for myself and my daughter. if i'm lucky, the system provides all that i need, and all that my daughter needs, and i don't need to exploit anything. until we live in that socialist utopia, i'll continue to be a judgemental twat who views the unemployed as slackers, and the uneducated as wasted potential. its all just our opinions right?:)

fair enough, I always say to people who only care about themselves and their family, "don´t expect anyone else to care about you".

what I mean by that is that if you´re happy to live in a world where the great majority of people are condemned to daily misery and struggle, and all you want is to be rich, don´t come crying to me about crime, terrorism, social unrest, taxes etc. if you´re happy to turn your backs on the shit everyone else is going through, hopefully one day you´ll be lying in a gutter or something cause you just got robbed for your phone and mercilessly stripped of everything you own by someone hungry or by a bunch of ruthless, ambitious and dishonest bastards like yourself, and hopefully everone shows you the same attitude you showed them and leaves you there to die, saying "fuck him, he´s not my son/brother/friend, why should I care".

I am not trying to insult you, just saying, if your attidue is fuck everyone else except your family, you deserve to live in such a world.

of course I would care less if to be honest you were just a nihilist, but the trouble is that most people with your outlook have a really whiny self-absorbed, pseudo-moralist attitude that even though they don´t give a shit about anyone else or the things other people need to make their lives better, that we should all co-operate and play by your rules, because it´s just natural, and that you ruhtlessly profiting a other peoples expense is fine, but someone robbing you or conning you or bombing your country for their own itnerests is not

people like that unfortunately run our media and bombard us with their sanctimonious pseudo-morality and sentimentalism, selective pacifism, selective "comapssion", selective "family values", selective "co-operation" and "respect" and "consideration" when these thigns are needed to makeyour life run smoothly, and then when it comes to expecting these things in order to help others, well that´s jsut unrealstic becuse it´s against "human nature", because we´re all ruthless animals in a competitive jungle.

but then logically I should be ble to profit at your expense any way I can, but next time someone rolls up on your lawn with guns drawn,it´s all tearful sentimentality and "isn´t it terrible" and "my daughter was so scared", and we need more "comapssion", "respect", rule of law", "consideration for others", "honesty" etc. etc. etc. You make me sick I tells ya, sick!


Again, nothing personal, I am just making observations on the kind of individualism our society promotes, and the way the middle class behaves...and really, I dont care what background you are from, you clearly have your sights on a middle class lifestyle and you have that outlook.

[Decolonize The Left]

To get back to the OP:

so, i like to look at peoples profile information in an attempt to learn what i can about them. is everyone on here unemployed?!:blink::blink:
i bet easily 2/3 of this site is populated by high school age, W.A.S.P's who think they're nonconformist cuz they claim to be socialist/communist/anarchist/whatever bullshit faction you align yourself with.
please, those of you with jobs, illuminate me. show me i'm wrong, please god let me be wrong!!:crying::blink::bored:

So let me get this straight...

You come onto a leftist forum when you already have massive negative prejudices against the majority of people here, and then proceed to demand information about people's jobs in a judgmental manner?

Why sir, may I ask, are you wasting time on a forum with a bunch of unemployed people? Don't you have something important to do... like... say... go to work?

Ass.

- August

[RedAnarchist]

@Comrade whatever- your posts are really difficult to read. if you think i'm going to alienate the youth, try bringing them to the cause with your illegible text.:laugh:

Unless you've got a degree in English, shut the fuck up.

[cappin]

Well, thank you all for your concern. I received a letter from jail today.

His court date is set to August 7th. Let's hope he returns soon.

[Bud Struggle]

Well, thank you all for your concern. I received a letter from jail today.

His court date is set to August 7th. Let's hope he returns soon.

Tell Kronos that I miss him and look forward to chatting with him again soon.

All the best to him,

TomK

[Qwerty Dvorak]

@Comrade whatever- your posts are really difficult to read. if you think i'm going to alienate the youth, try bringing them to the cause with your illegible text.:laugh:

i'm in school to be a graphic designer, though i'm not sure where that will take me in the end.:blushing:
honestly, i could care less what political/economic system is in power. i plan to exploit it mercilessly in order to provide the best life for myself and my daughter. if i'm lucky, the system provides all that i need, and all that my daughter needs, and i don't need to exploit anything. until we live in that socialist utopia, i'll continue to be a judgemental twat who views the unemployed as slackers, and the uneducated as wasted potential. its all just our opinions right?:)
You haven't a permanent job but you've a daughter already?

A little hint: most people would probably hold the likes of you in contempt, so I wouldn't throw stones from glass houses.

[Demogorgon]

Well, thank you all for your concern. I received a letter from jail today.

His court date is set to August 7th. Let's hope he returns soon.

What has he done?

[Bud Struggle]

What has he done?

He tried starting the Revolution? ;)

[534634634265]

Unless you've got a degree in English, shut the fuck up.
man you are irritable you?:D
sorry it bothers me to see our common language butchered horribly.

EDIT: too true on the daughter/job comment. though never trust a woman who says "its okay, i'm on birth control". should have worn a rubber, but i was too drunk to think that responsibly.:blushing: now i try and make do as best i can.:( also, i DID say i was a judgemental twat.

[Lost In Translation]

so, i like to look at peoples profile information in an attempt to learn what i can about them. is everyone on here unemployed?!:blink::blink:
i bet easily 2/3 of this site is populated by high school age, W.A.S.P's who think they're nonconformist cuz they claim to be socialist/communist/anarchist/whatever bullshit faction you align yourself with.
please, those of you with jobs, illuminate me. show me i'm wrong, please god let me be wrong!!:crying::blink::bored:
I don't have a job. You know why? BECAUSE THE GOVERNMENT HAS A MINIMUM AGE LIMIT THAT'S TOO FRICKIN' HIGH.

How's that for irony?

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

I'm neither a high school student nor am I unemployed. So much for your great theory.

[Socialist18]

I'm currently unemployed, due to some health problems I have right now so I'm on a pension not the doll. In a way its better than working for some capitalist asshole making him rich while I slave my ass off for him even if I don't get as much money as a job, I'm used to being poor so it don't even really bother me.

[politics student]

Starting University in October, I gotten work over the summer as temp staff in other words I have no working rights if I complain I get sacked and they have the right to fire me in a text message as I walk home on a Friday evening as they need to remove a few staff.

[Raoul_RedRat]

Finished high school > BA social work > BA philosophy
Worked since I was fourteen at different places. After leaving university got into the problem of being overeducated for some job applications and under-experienced for others. Eventually found a temporary job at the campus bookstore (where a lot of academics ended up), stayed there for two years. The capitalist tentacles started to influence the fun of selling books in this store.

Ended up in a left political bookshop, with a minimum wage but with a maximum of satisfaction.

[Axel1917]

Everyone here is unemployed? I don't know about that, but if that is true here, it is probably due to the largely teenage base of the revleft population, although unemployment is also a problem.

I am currently employed as a unionized janitor. Not the most fun job out there, but it pays far higher than such jobs in its field (I should be at around $40K+ per year several years from now.), and college is a blind alley for me anyway, as I don't have the money for it, and even if I took out all kinds of loans and got a degree, there is a good chance I would not end up with a job (and not have any insurance benefits!) and have a massive debt to pay off I could not afford. With the economy in recession, and only promising to get worse, I think college would be a very bad move for me. Not to mention that the people form well-off families that go to places like Harvard, Carnegie Mellon University, Yale, Princeton, and the like would get a job over me anyway since those college names look far better on a resume than say, the University of Minnesota.

Of course, with a future above average salary of $40K+ per year, it is also much easier for me to write college off than many people.

[JimmyJazz]

so, i like to look at peoples profile information in an attempt to learn what i can about them. is everyone on here unemployed?!:blink::blink:
i bet easily 2/3 of this site is populated by high school age, W.A.S.P's who think they're nonconformist cuz they claim to be socialist/communist/anarchist/whatever bullshit faction you align yourself with.
please, those of you with jobs, illuminate me. show me i'm wrong, please god let me be wrong!!:crying::blink::bored:

Heh, I actually am unemployed. I just finished my M.A. and I'm looking for something to do with it (as I have been for over a month now). I may get a PhD but it won't be for several years, as I'm extremely burned out and not even sure what subject I would want it in.

If many people on this site are unemployed - I'm taking your word for it that they are - then there are at least 2 considerations that have to be made. One, cause and effect is not obvious. Clearly, someone with a social conscience or any kind of anti-capitalist leanings has many doors closed to them: working for the a military contractor, for instance. Or a credit card company. A determination not to be party to exploitation and/or murder certainly does limit your options in this (U.S.) economy. Two, this is an internet discussion board. Go to a libertarian board and I'm pretty sure you'll find lot of unemployed people there too. The orientation of the board has less to do with it than the fact that we have the time to post on the interwebz!

Hell, I even have enough time to write out a serious reply to a troll.

[534634634265]

Hell, I even have enough time to write out a serious reply to a troll.

i'm not a troll, twat.
this is likely my 4th or 5th post in this thread total.
it was an attempt to see who has a job, and what that job is. i was bothered by the number of people who complain about being oppressed proletariat, but have no life experience as anything other than students in their parents house.
it wasn't well thought out, and it was a dying thread until people like you post in it and bring it back up. if you think its a troll thread, why not just NOT post in it, thereby bumping it up and increasing the success of my supposed "troll" thread?:rolleyes:
your "serious reply" is weeks late, and unasked for. read other threads i've started, see how much of a "troll" i am. i'll do the same for you.

[Bud Struggle]

CL--the guy has 17 freakin' posts and calls you a troll. :rolleyes:

[534634634265]

CL--the guy has 17 freakin' posts and calls you a troll. :rolleyes:
its just a hassle, i've got a thread i started that got 4 pages of pissy replies to my ONE post. i admit my starter was poor, but i didn't really involve myself in it all and now its 5 pages of people who rage at me over nothing. god forbid you just let a bad thread die instead of putting your retardulous two cents in it.

EDIT: sorry, now its 7 pages, and this is likely only my 6th or so post to it.

[Bud Struggle]

its just a hassle, i've got a thread i started that got 4 pages of pissy replies to my ONE post. i admit my starter was poor, but i didn't really involve myself in it all and now its 5 pages of people who rage at me over nothing. god forbid you just let a bad thread die instead of putting your retardulous two cents in it.

EDIT: sorry, now its 7 pages, and this is likely only my 6th or so post to it.

My advice: Fuck 'um if they don't like it. :lol:

[Raoul_RedRat]

... and college is a blind alley for me anyway, as I don't have the money for it, and even if I took out all kinds of loans and got a degree, there is a good chance I would not end up with a job (and not have any insurance benefits!)...

Feel free to come to the Netherlands for political asylum. :lol:

But yeah it's tragic to see good minds not able to enjoy the fruits of study because they can't afford. I owe the state now 30000 euro's, but it will take me years of ass licking (which I certainly won't), or years^2 of patience before the monthly return (plus interest) start to feel less painful.

[534634634265]

it is probably due to the largely teenage base of the revleft population
you say that in passing and it flies without response. i say that at the start of this thread and get nailed to a cross for 7 pages.:crying:

[Killfacer]

people dont like getting told they are communists because they are teenagers. I dont think you said that but thats the way people have taken it.

[534634634265]

yeah