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marxistsocialist
12th July 2008, 03:42
Hello all: Read this text which says clearly that the Colombian Workers and poor people are the only *force* capable of changing Colombia from Capitalism to a socialist system, and not FARC rebels.

Alan Woods invited by president Chavez to a caravan with the revolutionary people in Nueva Esparta

By Corriente Marxista Revolucionaria (Venezuela) Friday, 04 July 2008 Alan Woods on Venezuelan TV: “The only force which can defeat the Colombian oligarchy is the people”

On Wednesday, July 2, Alan Woods was the guest on Vanessa Davies' programme "Contragolpe" ("Fightback") on Venezolana de Televisión, Venezuela's main state-owned TV channel. "Contragolpe" is one of the programmes with the highest ratings of Venezuelan TV (watched particularly by the supporters of the revolution). Vanessa Davies is one of the most respected journalists in the country, and received one of the highest votes in the elections for the national leadership of the PSUV.
The first part of the interview centered on the news of the day: the rescue of Ingrid Betancourt and other FARC hostages on the part of the Colombian government and the subsequent media campaign organized by the Colombian oligarchy and imperialism internationally. They are capitalizing on it politically and using it to present as democratic the extreme right-wing government of Alvaro Uribe.

Alan started by explaining: "The first thing that I want to make clear is that, as a Marxist, my sympathies are always with the oppressed and the exploited and against the oligarchies wherever they are from. I am particularly against the Colombian oligarchy which uses particularly brutal and repressive methods against the people. I have my criticisms and differences with the FARC, but I cannot share the kind of ‘condemnation of terrorism' expressed by the US government. The biggest terrorist in the world is none other than George W. Bush."

Comrade Alan explained how the struggle against the bourgeois state on the part of a small group of guerrillas isolated from the masses, far from achieving their aim of defeating the oligarchy, has allowed it to strengthen itself and "turn the country into an armed camp". Alan defended the need to struggle against the oligarchy and underlined that this had to be done by basing oneself on the masses. He also stressed that this point of view has nothing to do with pacifism and that what he was talking was about mass struggle: "I defend the arming of the people, also here, in Venezuela."

Regarding Plan Colombia, Alan described it as a fraud, the real aim of which is, first of all, to try to smash the guerrillas and at the same time to strengthen the Colombian army against the Latin American revolution, and particularly the Venezuelan revolution. The British Marxist explained that the Venezuelan revolution is an inspiration to millions of workers and youth all over the world. But, as he has been insisting in every meeting of his Venezuelan tour to launch the book Reformism or Revolution. Marxism and Socialism of the 21st Century, he warned that "in Venezuela there is a revolution but it has not been completed. And one cannot carry out half a revolution". Alan stressed the need to nationalize the banks, the land and the big industries under workers' control, and to democratically plan the economy and complete the revolution, as the only way of solving the problems of the masses. He also made an appeal to all revolutionaries to build the PSUV and defended the need to strengthen it ideologically with the ideas of Marxism.

After the interview with Vanessa Davies in VTV, which had a wide audience, on Thursday, July 3, comrade Alan Woods had planned to attend a number of meetings organized by PSUV candidate for governor, Adán Chávez, in Barinas. However, a last minute call from the presidential palace informed him that president Chávez wanted to invite him to an event in Nueva Esparta (Isla Margarita). An appointment was made for 8am on the presidential plane to fly to the island. President Chávez, as he explained to Alan later, had heard of his presence in Venezuela as a result of his appearance on Vanessa Davies' "Contragolpe".

After a forty-minute journey, the presidential plane arrived in Margarita. It was received officially at the airport by foreign affairs minister Nicolás Maduro, communications minister Andrés Izarra, and several civilian and military authorities. A contingent of the armed forces with a music band and a large number of rank and file members of the PSUV with red flags were also there to greet the president. As he stepped off the plane, comrade Alan was greeted by Nicolás Maduro and Andrés Izarra. Minutes later, president Chávez descended from the plane, greeting comrade Alan in the first place and exchanging a few words with him about the nationalisation of Sidor and other companies. He also mentioned the book Reformism or Revolution, making a complimentary comment. Turning to Nicolás Maduro, he said: "He has smashed Dieterich! Alan has a very sharp sense of humour". He said that he thought that the section called "Worms and butterflies" was particularly funny. Then he was introduced to Carlos Rodríguez, a leading member of the Venezuelan Revolutionary Marxist Current (CMR), and Chávez replied: "Long live Marx! We need him more than ever!"

After greeting the heads of the delegation at the airport, the presidential procession went to the Hotel Hesperia in Margarita. The journey, which lasted 20 minutes, was by car, amidst a mass of workers and PSUV members with red T-shirts who were greeting the president. Chávez was in Margarita to attend the VII Gathering of Information Ministers of the Movement of Non-Aligned Countries. The meeting was introduced by Cuban Foreign Affairs Minister Felipe Pérez Roque, who spoke about the "media tyranny" that countries that attempt to throw off the yoke of imperialism are subject to. Then Chávez spoke for two and half hours addressing the ministers and officials gathered. In a fiery speech, Chávez attacked imperialism and capitalism and said that socialism was the only solution to save humanity. During his speech he mentioned comrade Alan on five occasions, every time he referred to Marxism and nationalisations: "Here we have Alan Woods, from the International Marxist Tendency. Marxism has been brought back to life!". He mentioned that he had seen Alan's interview with Vanessa Davies the previous evening: "Alan made some criticisms, which I took note of. From a Marxist point of view and I have great respect for Marxist opinions".

At the end of the event in Hotel Hesperia, a motorcade went through several municipalities in Nueva Esparta. This was led by a jeep driven by president Chávez and next to him was PSUV candidate for governor William Farińa, which is fighting the Adeco (oppositionist) governor of the state. Chavez was greeted with enthusiasm by the people. He then stopped the car and talked to those who surrounded it. At the beginning comrade Alan Woods was in another car a few hundred metres behind. But at a certain point a member of the presidential guard who was in the same car as Alan asked him: "Alan Woods? Is that you? A motorbike is coming to pick you up to take you to the car driven by president Chávez." So, a few minutes later a big bike picked up Alan and drove speedily, dodging the people and the other cars, until it reached the presidential car. Alan was lifted on to the car and he continued the caravan with the president. From the car it was clear how the revolutionary rank and file are still enormously enthusiastic towards comandante Chávez; men, women and children, all wanted to greet him warmly, showing their support for the revolution. During the journey, president Chávez talked to Alan Woods about several questions. In the middle of the fervour of the people, the president turned to Alan and said: "See, Alan, in spite of all the faults of the Bolivarian revolution, this revolution is still alive", something that could be clearly seen in the multitude which surrounded the car shouting "Viva Chávez!"


Then, with a gesture of frustration, Chávez said: "You see all this, and still we have not been able to win the governor here." And pointing at the candidate William Farińas, he asked: "Alan, if this man is elected, what should he do?" To which Alan replied straight away: "He must listen to the people, understand their message and carry it out". "Precisely", said Chávez, "but that is the problem that we are facing. Some governors, after being elected lose contact with the rank and file. They surround themselves with rich people, beautiful women, etc. and lose contact with the people. This is an ideological problem. As long as we do not have governors who are ideologically prepared we will always have the same problem. We must win the battle of ideas. You are a good writer, why don't you write some pamphlets explaining the ideas of socialism in a simple way? Here we could distribute them massively."
Alan replied: "Yes, I can do that, and I agree that an ideological struggle in the party is needed, but also needed are mechanisms of control from below".

At this point, for the first time, the voice of the President sounded a bit tired: "I cannot do everything," he said. "It is absolutely necessary for the people to participate in this process and to take control in their own hands".

At that point the conversation was interrupted by the shouting and clapping of the masses, who once again surrounded and slowed down the car in order to reach President Chávez and give him their support, kisses and petitions. These are some of the contradictions of the Revolution which need to be solved.

Thursday, July 3, 2008

spartan
12th July 2008, 03:54
He is probably right Farc cannot overthrow Capitalism in Colombia.

Why? Well for a start Farc doesn't have the support of even a significant minority of the Colombian working class and it probably never will if it continues with all this drug trade and kidnapping for ransom stuff which always gives them bad press (Which is what most working class people are influenced by) and mostly effects badly on the working class themselves.

Also they are pretty much isolated to rural jungle areas which means that they have little to no contact with the urban working class only with peasants which is a serious problem for any self described workers liberation army.

Right now all Farc are doing is giving more reasons for the Colombian people to keep on electing these reactionary right wing parties like Uribe's government back into office which is counterproductive for a leftist group to say the least, especially when it has been shown by other Latin American countries that leftist parties can be Democratically elected into office. (e.g. Venezuela and Bolivia)

marxistsocialist
12th July 2008, 03:59
Hey my friend, i read an article by the 'International Communism' movement and they also critisized FARC for being a sort of Stalinist group. I am not sure what they meant by Stalinist, do they mean Stalinist ideology of FARC as a group who uses violence to reach its goal? Remember that Stalin was a criminal dictator. So are FARC rebels pro-Stalin? or are they bourgeoise-nationalists?

How would you label FARC? as an authentic marxist group? or not

marxistsocialist


He is right Farc cannot overthrow Capitalism in Colombia.

Farc doesn't have the support of even a significant minority of the Colombian working class, it will probably never get the mass support of the Colombian working class if it continues with all this drug trade and kidnapping for ransom stuff which always gives them bad press (Which is what most working class people are influenced by) and mostly effects badly on the working class themselves, and as they are pretty much isolated to rural jungle areas they have no contact with the urban working class only with peasants which is a serious problem for any self described workers liberation army.

Right now all Farc are doing is giving more reasons for the Colombian people to keep on electing these reactionary right wing parties like Uribe's government back into office which is counterproductive for a leftist group to say the least, especially when it has been shown by other Latin American countries that leftist parties can be Democratically elected into office. (e.g. Venezuela and Bolivia)

marxistsocialist
12th July 2008, 04:08
Hey but i thought that the ones doing drug-smuggling and bad stuff where the paramilitaries, not FARC.

And by the way i think you are right in your analysis !!

You know what some dogmatic pro-FARC leftists have said in their "objective" analysis of FARC? They claim that the kidnappings, car bombings, and murders that FARC does is ok, because Bush and Uribe kill thousands of people in their repressive wars. So FARC rebels murders and kidnappings are not evil compared to Bush and Uribe's wrongdoings.

That's like deffending a killer of 20 people and comparing him with killers who kill thousands of people.

James Petras (A dogmatic writter) is also one of these "objective" thinkers who claim that FARC's cruelty is nothing compared with Uribe's cruelties.

marxistsocialist



Why? Well for a start Farc doesn't have the support of even a significant minority of the Colombian working class and it probably never will if it continues with all this drug trade and kidnapping for ransom stuff which always gives them bad press

spartan
12th July 2008, 04:49
Hey but i thought that the ones doing drug-smuggling and bad stuff where the paramilitaries, not FARC.
Well for the most part yes it is the right wing paramilitaries who are involved in the trafficking of the drugs.

Farc just tax the people growing the stuff on Farc controlled land though i find it hard to believe that there aren't certain elements within Farc who are also giving protection to the drug dealers and perhaps also trafficking it themselves as well.

You know what some dogmatic pro-FARC leftists have said in their "objective" analysis of FARC? They claim that the kidnappings, car bombings, and murders that FARC does is ok, because Bush and Uribe kill thousands of people in their repressive wars. So FARC rebels murders and kidnappings are not evil compared to Bush and Uribe's wrongdoings.

That's like deffending a killer of 20 people and comparing him with killers who kill thousands of people.
Completely agree.

The killing of an innocent person is still the killing of an innocent person and can never be justified just because your ideological foes also kill innocent people.

As the old saying goes two wrongs dont make a right.

OI OI OI
12th July 2008, 05:56
Alan Woods is absolutely right on this. I read this article about FARC in their newspaper here in Canada(Fightback) and I absolutely agree with it. You can find it here (http://www.marxist.com/perspectives-farc-and-class-struggle-colombia.htm)

marxistsocialist
12th July 2008, 15:39
I dont understand why still many Chavez's followers are not getting the *clear* message sent by Chavez, that armed guerrillas don't work. I don't know but maybe this is the psychology of latin americans in general. Latin americans get very attached to leaders, to celebrities, to things. And many people in Latin America had this idea that FARC rebels are like Che Guevara. But i don't think that Che Guevara highjacked anybody for 10 years (that's insane).

I mean if i was highjacked by FARC for 10 years i would support Uribe indeed in his killing of FARC, it is as simple as that.

Why many people in Venezuela have this irrational idea, that Ingrid Betancourt is "evil", because of the fact that she is not supporting her terrorist highjackers (FARC).

I mean what the heck is going on in the brain of these FARC loyalists. How can Ingrid Betancourt support FARC after she was highjacked for 7 years?

I mean maybe if FARC highjacked a capitalist for 1 week, maybe FARC wouldn't be so evil.

But highjacking people for 7 years is just plain evil, wrong and satanic, even if Karl Marx or Jesus Christ was the highjacker

marxistsocialist

Comerade Ted Grant
12th July 2008, 20:43
Outstanding article! Guerrillaism as a leading strategy of insurrection has had its day.

Yehuda Stern
12th July 2008, 21:26
Fantastic. Alan Woods again defies logic and Marxism by claiming that the disarming of a guerrilla by a bourgeois state is a progressive move. Instead of coming to the conclusion that Chavez is a reformist because he supports the imperialist order in Latin America, the pet again pleases the master with ridiculous lies.

By the way, Woods followers - if you're so anti-guerrilla, why does your leader support Guevara as if he was some great Marxist revolutionary?

Wanted Man
12th July 2008, 21:34
Christ, what's with all the Grant-bots flooding RevLeft today? Is there something in the summer air? Is RevLeft being used for an IMT debate practice schooling session? It's so creepy, there's like 10 of them and they all have the exact same opinion on everything!

Personally, I put more weight on the opinion of Castro, who says that kidnapping is cruel and should be discontinued. However, guerrilla movements certainly should not lay down their arms, as those who surrendered "did not survive to see the peace". A sensible approach, based on decades of experience. Much preferable over the shrill denunciations from creepy cliques on the sidelines.

Yehuda Stern
12th July 2008, 21:49
I've asked myself the same question. We have comrades arguing their position on several sites, and in the last few days Grantists have been popping up from nowhere in every place we write in.

spartan
12th July 2008, 22:20
Christ, what's with all the Grant-bots flooding RevLeft today? Is there something in the summer air? Is RevLeft being used for an IMT debate practice schooling session? It's so creepy, there's like 10 of them and they all have the exact same opinion on everything!

Personally, I put more weight on the opinion of Castro, who says that kidnapping is cruel and should be discontinued. However, guerrilla movements certainly should not lay down their arms, as those who surrendered "did not survive to see the peace". A sensible approach, based on decades of experience. Much preferable over the shrill denunciations from creepy cliques on the sidelines.
I dont think that Farc should lay down their arms all i disagree with is their tactics such as kidnapping, involvement in the drug trade, etc.

Right now Farc's actions blacken the already tarnished name of Socialism to such an extent that the Colombian people happily keep on voting in right wing nutters like Uribe.

Having said all this i dont personally believe that Farc can defeat Uribe anymore as they are pretty much a spent isolated force who have no connection to the Colombian working class.

Farc aren't apart of the real world anymore and neither are people who think that they have a chance in hell at beating the Israel of Latin America.

Time to change tactics and do a Chavez or Morales on the Colombian establishment's arse and get elected Democratically, though after all the bad Farc have done i doubt that even a minority of Colombians would vote for any sort of Socialist for a long time.

You see this is the reality of the situation, a failing unpopular (Except for trendy tankies) left wing paramilitary group stuck in the jungle and resorting to illegal activities to stay alive. Even if they did give up tommorrow and became a legit political group seeking power via the ballot no Colombian would trust them for a long time.

Socialism in Colombia will be all but dead for quite a while because of groups like Farc and the consequences of this will be that pro-US free market right wingers like Uribe will florish for quite sometime.

Random Precision
12th July 2008, 22:53
Did he just realize that? :lol::lol::lol:

Ricardito1941
4th November 2008, 03:28
Then who in hell is going to go against the right wing military junta? Violence, kidnapping and drugs is the only language those right wing American financed pigs understand. I say bunko, FARC is a necessary ingredient to the Socialist transfer of power. Such power must be attained by violence the only language understood by all! Look what has happened in America and I know this is no real comparison but look at the police power we have that keeps order. Violence is their calling card and they use it indescriminately on the people. To rise up is to be shot down. We have let it go to far already to do anything about police brutality!

redguard2009
4th November 2008, 04:26
Who the hell is ALan Woods?

Some posh British pen & paper socialist-slash-university-professor who is apparently so brilliant that he can stretch a finger out and damn an organization halfway round the world?

I remember back in the day how up-and-coming socialist pundits had to actually have some accomplishment on their plates before people started taking their dime-a-dozen opinions as gospel. Nowadays, any scruffy-haired, bearded, sweater-wearing, elbow-patched professor is capable of achieving enormous popularity and internet followings for doing little more than sitting in an oak-covered office study writing quaint diatrabs about situations they couldn't possibly be more physically detached from, leading to such verbal defecations as this thread.

This morass of "new movement" hype is really pissing me off. Particularly:


Right now Farc's actions blacken the already tarnished name of Socialism to such an extent that the Colombian people happily keep on voting in right wing nutters like Uribe.

The above is indicative of the complete departure from reality that plagues literaturevolutionaries, as if the standings of capitalism's beauraucratic political process is any real or legitimate indication of a country's people and their willingness or unwillingness to perform one act of support or another. The right-winger keeps winning the elections, so obviously FARC must be doing something wrong! Ignore the fact that the last time it was recorded (in 1994), voter turnout was a blistering 29% of the eligible population, and that the average voter turnout for registered individuals hasn't surpassed 50% since 1974 (hitting 40% in 2006 for Colombia's parliamentary elections and 45% in the same year for presidential elections).

Ignore all of that; the people of Colombia have obviously given the right-wing government a mandate for supreme power and whole-heartedly support them, which itself is an indication of the illegitimacy of FARC. :rolleyes:

Hell, every communist organization which has ever run in any sort of electoral process, or existed in a country in which they were not immediately voted in, should disband immediately and be replaced by Alan Woods' personal oversight. Obviously this man knows best, and given that very few revolutionary movements have succeeded over the past 150 years, it is a sign that it is mainly due to them not following the Gospel of Woods.

Guerrilla22
4th November 2008, 05:31
Unfortunately any person ivolved in any sort of worker's actions in Colombia is gunned down by paramilitaries and the government makes no effort to arrest the perpetrators. I don't think the Colombian people alone will be able to overhtrow capitalism without armed support as long as this continues to occur.

Charles Xavier
4th November 2008, 15:45
Alan wood is a loser.

FARC doesn't participate in the drug trade, and believe me if FARC believed there was a peaceful way out of the conflict they would be the first to jump on board. They tried this back in the 1980s but some idiots who condemn FARC forget that FARC and their supporters were massacred by Paramilitaries before they could participate in any election. Search the Patriotic Union.

Louis Pio
4th November 2008, 16:21
I do like comments like this "Alan wood is a loser." coming from someone naming themselves after Dimitrov (sic!)

Now what is even more interesting is the total incapeability some people have in making any critical assesments of FARC's methods, after all these methods have had 40+ years to show their correctness. Instead we get the same old story about repression (which we all know is happening) leading some people to the conclusion that we need a total uncritical approach to FARC. And then we have no even touched upon that FARC's politics is basically reformism with guns...

Btw what's with the thread necromancy?

Labor Shall Rule
4th November 2008, 22:20
Colombia exports us petroleum, coffee, flowers, and most importantly, a sizable portion of their coal and nickel deposits, at a erroneously low price so that profits can be kept at an all time high.

It's geopolitical importance, however, outweighs whatever shit they send us. If Colombia 'falls' (to the 'capitalist' FARC) the dominoes fall with it - there'd be no rationality for Latin America to tie themselves to the political-military bureaucracy that Washington props up on the continent if such an extraordinary victory occurs.

Personally, I put more weight on the opinion of Castro, who says that kidnapping is cruel and should be discontinued. However, guerrilla movements certainly should not lay down their arms, as those who surrendered "did not survive to see the peace". A sensible approach, based on decades of experience. Much preferable over the shrill denunciations from creepy cliques on the sidelines.I agree, it was a grave political mistake for that old Jesuit that is nearing his death. Marulanda (the founder of FARC) built a bigger guerrilla army with a wider mass base than Castro ever created.

Saorsa
5th November 2008, 02:02
Alan Woods is a douche and the IMT are reformist social-democratic apologists.

RedHal
5th November 2008, 07:01
I do like comments like this "Alan wood is a loser." coming from someone naming themselves after Dimitrov (sic!)

Now what is even more interesting is the total incapeability some people have in making any critical assesments of FARC's methods, after all these methods have had 40+ years to show their correctness. Instead we get the same old story about repression (which we all know is happening) leading some people to the conclusion that we need a total uncritical approach to FARC. And then we have no even touched upon that FARC's politics is basically reformism with guns...

Btw what's with the thread necromancy?

and how many years has the trotskyist movement been around, have they even gotten off their asses outside of selling their party papers, sectarian splits and criticizing every guerilla movement?

redguard2009
5th November 2008, 22:48
Please, falling into the "how many years has ________ communist sub-type existed without any successful results?" is annoying. If you hadn't noticed, socialism does not exist anywhere in the world on a large scale, running around pointing fingers at "who has accomplished the least" is a waste of effort.

Anyway, perhaps reformism "with guns" is what is necessary? Is Columbia ready to elect a socialist government into office? Hardly. They are leashed by US imperialism and like in Nepal, "reformism with guns" is a necessary step in order for Columbia to reach the point that it is ready for broader change.