Message From Mazdak - Banned Once Again [Archive]

ComradeJunichi

30th December 2002, 17:14

Message from Mazdak:
Well apparently i have been blocked from this computer as well. Che-lives is a lost cause. I assure you, I will return once more in the future. I will not give up until you have blocked every goddamned IP in this state. You now too have banned MaxB according to what i see. Excellent work. This website is digging itself so far into its grave it shocks me. But coming from malte, who actually needs to have other people act as admin because he himself is do wasted/stoned to actually post on the board, i should not be surprised. Oh well, see you all in the future. Long live Stalin!!!

Bolschewik

30th December 2002, 17:19

Though not a stalinist myself, I would appreciate seeing more open debates among the different branches of the left (including Stalinists) in the non-capitalist forums.

ComradeJunichi

30th December 2002, 17:23

I agree, I'm strongly opposed to all the bannings of stalinists. I'd like to see the board start over, with everyone allowed back in. There is a lack of socialists, who actually know something, on this board.

Pete

30th December 2002, 17:36

I see that too. And me being here doesn't help that problem. Those knoweldgable socialists could help me become a knoweldgable socialist.

Michael De Panama

30th December 2002, 17:50

I am completely against these bannings as well.

chamo

30th December 2002, 17:59

I vote AGAINST these bannings, and open debate is needed

bolshevik1917

30th December 2002, 18:47

Agreed.

Stalinism must be proved wrong and exposed - not ignored.

The Stalinists must be allowed to speak for themselves - otherwise we are just as bad as them!

Revolution Hero is the last one as far as I know. Im debating with him in the History section. Suppose I should enjoy it while I can!

Oh and Joon, tell Mazdak to fuck Stalin

El Brujo

30th December 2002, 19:05

I think the stalinists are being treated way too harshly. They are, after all, leftists but they are being treated worse than the capitalists.

bolshevik1917

30th December 2002, 19:30

They are worse than capitalists but I still think they should be allowed to defend themselves.

Edelweiss

30th December 2002, 19:33

Mazdak, you are a very fucked up little boy. Stop playing the evil Stalinist on the Internet, it's pathetic, and I'm not willing to let the board be poisoned by your anti-human, anti-socialist childish posts.
STALIN KIDDIES OUT OF CHE-LIVES! FOR NOW AND FOREVER!

peaccenicked

30th December 2002, 19:35

BULLSHIT...

It is as simple as this when I see the word Stalinist I see murder, torture,bullying, lying, betrayal, hypocrisy, and I have only experienced personally a little bit of it in the real world.
Yeah brilliant. De panama. How many Jews want to come here to hear stalin supporters and deniers of their suffering, indulge in free speech at the welcome home of communists.
How many women want to come here aand hear that they should succumb to some 'strong man' theory.

Enough. Civil rights for these monsters. If these were the victims of a Stalinism I might applaud but these are sick hypocritical shits who you wish to enlighten.

This bb might be boring because you cant bite the empty headed noses off at every visit.
If the world was without these fascistic scumbags I would rather be bored. Get a life.

There is nothing liberal about it. When assholes without ears piss on your bed. You chase them.

El Che

30th December 2002, 19:40

ooo a message from mazdak!! Gather around folks!

El Che

30th December 2002, 20:15

Peaceniked is too right. No serious person would give idiots like this the time of day. The sooner they are gone the sooner we can have a better space here. Amen.

American Kid

31st December 2002, 04:05

I agree. But they won't leave.

Here, or "elsewhere". The battle lines have already been obviously drawn, so let's fight.

-AK

synthesis

31st December 2002, 04:16

If libertarian socialism/anarcho-communism are so much better than Stalinism, which they are, then we ought to be able to smash them with logic and reason rather than authoritarianly banning them.

Truth can stand alone!

bolshevik1917

31st December 2002, 09:21

Can't we have a Socialism vs Stalinism forum then? That way comrades who have no time for them can ignore them.

Man of the Cause

31st December 2002, 10:16

I'm against these ridiculous bans.
So... VOTE NO TO STALINIST PURGES AGAINST STALINIST!
DON'T TURN CHE-LIVES IN TO A STALINIST DICTATORSHIP; FREE THE STALINISTS!

Stormin Norman

31st December 2002, 15:50

Peacenick,

Quit trying to distinguish yourself from the Stalinist vermin. Your constant attempts to do that very thing lend credence to my view that you are in denial about the ideology you support. In supporting communism, by default you make yourself a Marxist.

Did you really ban MaxB? He was posting his own shit for Christ's sake. I thought he had some potential. You should let him back on.

Why did you ban Mazdak, Malte? Is it because he called you a pothead? It's true isn't it? You need not be ashamed. Proud American I understand, but Mazdak was an integral part of this bulletin board. You guys are ruining the flavor.

Never the less, El Che got a good one off when he said:

"ooo a message from mazdak!! Gather around folks!"

I am stick chuckling at that one.

bolshevik1917

31st December 2002, 16:16

Strormin Norman, although I have read much of your capitalistic drivel I have refrained from replying as you are clearly a lost cause.

However I just thought id ask you to point out the similarities between Marx and Stalin as you seem to think the two come hand in hand. The fact is the two are incompatable, Marx never talked about secret police and labour camps for crying out loud!!

Id challenge you to find me evidence of the similarities between Stalinism and Marxism, as I know for a fact there are none I wont bother.

Goldfinger

31st December 2002, 16:49

Stalinists are pro fascism and oppression, even murdering people for not supporting the government, but when they get banned or restricted, oppression is suddenly bad.

Stormin Norman

31st December 2002, 16:50

Then apparently you mustn't have read the communist manifesto. Stalinism manifests itself because of what I like to call the Great Marxist Paradox. I suggest you go searching for what it is I speak of, as you'll actually have to evalute the manifesto in greater detail than you are use to. Reread that 30 page pile of shit, then I will be happy to point it out to you, if you're still blind to it.

(Edited by Stormin Norman at 5:00 am on Jan. 1, 2003)

Stormin Norman

31st December 2002, 16:58

I thought Mazdak was a good representation of the open admission of what the rest of you communists hide from. That is the logical result of the world view you espouse. He wasn't as smart as the rest of you. He spoke the unspeakable exposing communism for what it is. I suppose it is in your best interest to silence him if you actually plan an persuading people with the great communist lie.

(Edited by Stormin Norman at 5:07 am on Jan. 1, 2003)

bolshevik1917

31st December 2002, 17:34

Despite having read the manifesto numerous times, I, being the open minded chap that I am, took your advice and re read it this afternoon.

Alas, after 'evaluting the manifesto in greater detail than I am use to' I could not find ONE OUNCE of Stalinism present!

Could it be that my copy has been tampered with, and an evil nazi Trotskyist has removed the chatpers on 'forced labour camps' 'purge trials' and 'the slaughter of millions'?

Or could it just be that you are talking mince?

As far as I can see you are a destructive spitefull little turd who spends his life critiscising something he has no knowledge on, so I pressume it was the second.

But, if I am to remain polite I must confess I am still 'blind to it' so unfortunatley you will have to waste your prescious time pointing out this blatant stalinism prestent in the manifesto (that somehow I have managed to miss)

I look forward to this indeed!

Happy New Year :wink:

Stormin Norman

31st December 2002, 17:50

Bolshevik1917,

I provided a link that sums it up the best. Read from the second post on. I think this guest understands his Marxism and has taken the time to thoughfully study it. It doesn't appear to me that he is speaking out of ignorance, as he produces some excellent insight. Take a look. I think you will find his reasoning to be pretty sound, whether or not you agree with it. You can chose to write it off. Know this. When I set out to study Marxism I was not convinced one way or the other. I saw the striking contradictions and blatant lies that persisted. After the long hours spent on this task, it was evident that Marxism could not be defended on any grounds. Therefore I attacked it, and continue to do so.

Read it if you really want to know:

http://www.che-lives.com/cgi/community/top...um=22&topic=402 (http://www.che-lives.com/cgi/community/topic.pl?forum=22&topic=402)

(Edited by Stormin Norman at 5:52 am on Jan. 1, 2003)

Michael De Panama

31st December 2002, 20:20

Quote: from peaccenicked on 1:35 pm on Dec. 30, 2002
BULLSHIT...

It is as simple as this when I see the word Stalinist I see murder, torture,bullying, lying, betrayal, hypocrisy, and I have only experienced personally a little bit of it in the real world.
Yeah brilliant. De panama. How many Jews want to come here to hear stalin supporters and deniers of their suffering, indulge in free speech at the welcome home of communists.
How many women want to come here aand hear that they should succumb to some 'strong man' theory.

Enough. Civil rights for these monsters. If these were the victims of a Stalinism I might applaud but these are sick hypocritical shits who you wish to enlighten.

This bb might be boring because you cant bite the empty headed noses off at every visit.
If the world was without these fascistic scumbags I would rather be bored. Get a life.

There is nothing liberal about it. When assholes without ears piss on your bed. You chase them.

Look, comrade. It's not about whether or not I'll get bored here. It's not about what these idiots stand for. It's what I stand for.

And I normally think it's silly to compare a message board to a government, but my reasons against the ban of the Stalinists are the same exact reasons I have against the ban of free speech the Stalinists themselves promote.

We aren't ridding the world of Stalinist thought by banning them from Che-Lives. All we are doing is taking away their ability to manifest their thought into words that happen to be found on the same internet message board you and me go to. We're silencing them. We're running away from their idiocy, instead of correcting it. What do we prove by doing that? That we're hypocrites who preach freedom of speech but don't really practice it.

I'm not talking about letting Nazis and even the Stalinist trolls in here just to waste space, but if someone has some serious argument they can contribute, I think it is their right to do so. And if you don't agree with it, I'm sure you have a stronger argument within your little head that you can bring out into a debate. It's that simple. Ultimately, you might change some points of views of these fascists, instead of showing yourself as a hypocrite.

If you don't believe in at least a little bit of freedom of speech you can fight alongside the Stalinists, because I don't stand for that shit.

Stormin Norman

31st December 2002, 20:27

Can you guys at least fix CI's problem. He says he can't log on from home and is convinced the admin is purposely preventing this. After all, this is the forum dedicated to soc vs. cap. Stalinists aside, I think CI should not be prevented from representing the capitalists. I have offered to represent you in the inter-forum debates, and I am offering the Corporate Crusader service, now can you do me one favor and let my friend return without a hassle?

Thanks

JoYKiLLaH

31st December 2002, 21:29

im against them 2, but mazdak, is a fuckin moron

ComradeJunichi

31st December 2002, 21:35

Why is Mazdak a fucking moron? Mazdak is quite intelligent, although none of us may agree with his ideals.

I don't think CI is banned, if he was he'd know it because you get a BANNED image when you try to log on.

Michael De Panama

31st December 2002, 21:49

Mazdak advocates a system of government that has failed time after time, and proven only to be oppressive to its people. That's what makes him moronic.

Exploited Class

31st December 2002, 22:12

Quote: from DyerMaker on 4:16 am on Dec. 31, 2002
If libertarian socialism/anarcho-communism are so much better than Stalinism, which they are, then we ought to be able to smash them with logic and reason rather than authoritarianly banning them.

Truth can stand alone!

Is this your first day on the internet?

I don't think people ever just go away on the internet.

http://forums.fark.com/cgi/fark/comments.p...l?IDLink=220340 (http://forums.fark.com/cgi/fark/comments.pl?IDLink=220340)

(Edited by exploitedclass at 10:21 pm on Dec. 31, 2002)

Stormin Norman

31st December 2002, 22:17

From Micheal de Panama: Mazdak advocates a system of government that has failed time after time, and proven only to be oppressive to its people.

What's the difference between you and Mazdak, again?

synthesis

31st December 2002, 22:21

Is this your first day on the internet?

What?

Stormin Norman

31st December 2002, 22:23

I got the strange feeling that Dyer-maker is someone else. Call it a hunch.

truthaddict11

1st January 2003, 15:52

this is from when you agree to register here at che-lives
"*Notes: "National Bolsheviks" or other pseudo-leftist fascists are of course not welcome here!
Known Nazi's are not allowed to post here, no matter what they post.
Also, hardcore Stalinists won't find many friends here."

Anonymous

1st January 2003, 16:18

this dilema is pretty simple, liberal administrators (wich i suport) wanbt to have a fascist free zone, yet to dosoo ban all stalins, ok this may sound good, but with myboard experience i can assure you that stalinsts can give life to boards, and ifsomeofyoudisagree with the anti-human theorys of mazdak then just provehim wrong, i myself done this, and will continue to, if you start purging and banning stalinists like this you wount never make socialism prevail in real life, this is suposed to be a debate forum, by eliminating all oposition you are transforming it into a board where only liberal people can post, and good debates wount happen if this is done....

i understand that banning some individuals is necessary, like some really boring ones as stupid cappies, but this purge is totally unecessary, and it will onlyturn us soft.....

the mazdak dilema is pretty simple, he is very good to train a debate, nomather what he is against all we defend, not counting with planing economy, wich i thing we all agree in that, but there are other point of views we can debate, and win.......

bolshevik1917

1st January 2003, 16:48

Stromin Normin, I had a glance over that 'guest' guys argument, I will return to it after I have recovered from my hangover.

Despite only scanning over it I can see it is extremely flawed, closer inspection could suggest that this guy has not studied Marxism at all. I will be happy to point this out to you, perhaps tomorow.

Back to bed...

Anonymous

1st January 2003, 19:37

"Also, hardcore Stalinists won't find many friends here."

that doesnt mean they have to be banned....

timbaly

1st January 2003, 21:04

The administration of this site is way too hypocritical. They hate stalinists and then they go and use stalinist tactics on the stalinists. When someone is wrong, you show them why they're wrong, you just don't silence them. This site is getting worse by the day the bannings must stop and notices to those banned members most be sent out to make sure they know that they will be tolerated. We should all take a vote on this, if majority wants to stop the bannings then the admin must stop. I know Malte believes in democracy so he better not have an objection to this idea. If the admin doesn't set up the vote itself, I will take the poll into my own hands. No matter how much we hate the stalinists we should not ban them and the same goes for MAxB. He was actually writing his own stuff recently.
I say we let Thine Stalin, lenin, Mazdak, MaxB, thursday and theButhcher back on this site along with any other banned staliist. Is anyone with me?

(Edited by timbaly at 4:07 pm on Jan. 2, 2003)

Michael De Panama

1st January 2003, 21:50

Quote: from Stormin Norman on 4:17 pm on Dec. 31, 2002
What's the difference between you and Mazdak, again?
Mazdak wants complete authority and I want complete democracy. Mazdak's system of government has already existed in the USSR, in China, in Korea, and in every other country that misrepresents itself as "communist". My system of government has never existed. The fact that we both hate capitalist filth is merely coincidence, but the democratic socialist and the despotic socialist are complete polar opposites on the political spectrum.

Your response was so predictable, SN. No matter how many times anyone tries to sit down and explain to you that the only reason Stalin and Mao dubbed themselves "communist" was to look revolutionary and in favor of the working class who they oppressed, you'd rather accept the heap of post-McCarthy era propaganda that's been spoonfed to you by your beloved authority time and time again. Don't think I don't expect you to accuse me of wanting the same hell-hole Mazdak wants, and that has existed in the USSR. I know how you people think. I know how you people want to think. If the status quo was formed around communist principles, you'd be thinking along leftist lines. I don't expect you to expand your train of thought.

BatistaNationalista

1st January 2003, 21:53

Your system of government has existed, at least it tried. Time after time, they TRY to make a communist country but they fail.

Michael De Panama

1st January 2003, 23:15

If they were TRYING to make a COMMUNIST country, they would have done so in a country with a PROLETARIAT, not a pre-industrial country baby steps out of feudalism, such as Russia and China.

What are you trying to prove by being here, BN? That one dictator is better than another? You have zero credibility.

Anonymous

2nd January 2003, 01:19

"Your system of government has existed, at least it tried. Time after time, they TRY to make a communist country but they fail. "

that is the stupidest thingiv ever heard...

1-who are"they"?

2-no one ever triedto make a communistcountry, because thatis simply oxymoron. communism HAS tobe internationalist, the least "they"were trying to make was a socialist country..

bombeverything

3rd January 2003, 02:27

Quote: from the anarchist on 1:19 am on Jan. 2, 2003

communism HAS tobe internationalist

I totally agree. Communism in such a form has never existed.

Mazdak

4th January 2003, 22:58

Quote: from Malte on 7:33 pm on Dec. 30, 2002
Mazdak, you are a very fucked up little boy. Stop playing the evil Stalinist on the Internet, it's pathetic, and I'm not willing to let the board be poisoned by your anti-human, anti-socialist childish posts.
STALIN KIDDIES OUT OF CHE-LIVES! FOR NOW AND FOREVER!

Aww you hurt my feelings Malte. Let's all congratulate malte, he has managed to have over a thousand post yet almost none of them are political in the least. You pathetic fuck.

Anti socialist? I am probably one of the few socilialists here.

I pride myself as a student of marx and Machiavelli. Che knew only force could be used to achieve anything, but you worthless fucks are too busy smoking pot and buying che T shirts to realize what socialism is. Or what communism is. Anti human rights? When one breaks the law, he is voluntarily forfeiting his human rights. He has infringed on the rights of the state. How is it anti human rights to want to rid the world of murderers?

Not once have i said i wanted to kill retards yet your semi retarded friends still havent learned to read and thus misenterpret my post entirely.

How many here agreed with me on family? None of you. You all think marxism and socialism is all about smoking pot and constant orgies and this whole peace and love idea.

Its a fucking revolution, not a little game. You make it sound like some peaceful talk or something.

As you can see, you will be hard pressed to exterminate me completely.

El Che

4th January 2003, 23:12

People will give you your revolution. You just try and pull something.

Present.

Mazdak

5th January 2003, 00:40

????? What the hell was that supposed to mean??? Nothing you say makes sense any more.

Nateddi

5th January 2003, 00:46

I see you are back, Mazdak.

Welcome back comrade.

El Che

5th January 2003, 02:08

Translation:

People wont let maniacs like you take over society.

If it comes to armed struggle, which I seriously doubt, you know which side I`ll be on. If you facists ever try to put ur ideas in practice heres one ull have to recon with right here. PRESENT.

Got it?

Mazdak

5th January 2003, 03:21

oh yes, i am terrified of YOU el che... What are you 5? You cant think i am worried about you and your kind.

After all, who said any of us will be leading a revolution?

Its you who have this idea that i am playing dictator and you are the ones putting the idea into my head.

truthaddict11

5th January 2003, 03:40

how is anyone free in authoritorianism on the left or the right? how is anyone free from oppression?

(Edited by truthaddict11 at 10:42 pm on Jan. 4, 2003)

El Che

5th January 2003, 06:15

"oh yes, i am terrified of YOU el che..."

Me of all people, huh? Us "liberals" couldn`t possibly scare a man like you. :)

synthesis

5th January 2003, 07:47

Ten bucks says Mazdak's a skinhead by age seventeen.

truthaddict11

5th January 2003, 13:18

Quote: from DyerMaker on 2:47 am on Jan. 5, 2003
Ten bucks says Mazdak's a skinhead by age seventeen.

lol, you got my bet

Anonymous

5th January 2003, 15:06

once again you guys generalize the skinhead movement, andprobably dont knowwaht a skinhead really is...

the public opinion is htat all skinheads are neo-nazis
but the same public opinion also thinks that communism is stalnism... and you has leftists shouldnt fall in such grosse generalization....

the skinhead movement started like a regular movement, nothing political, nothing radical, just a bunch of guys with theyr head shaved, this groups still exist, then camethe nazi assholes and mixed a litleofpunk with skinhead and made probably thebigest group inthe history ofskinheads, the nazi skinheads, but this isnt the only group, there are also the red skins, communist and leftist skinheads.... wich are in my opinion, the best skinhead movement, plus thereare some anti-nazi/christian skinheads, and this guys directlyattack the nazigroups.....

so think twicebefore making such grosse generalization about skinheads, dont forget, the left is also sufering from this generalization....

Mazdak

5th January 2003, 16:53

10 bucks says i wont be a skinhead. I am comfortable right where i am, and i am certain half the people here will be voting republican by the time they are adults. I take pride in the fact that i am 100% sure of my position on the political spectrum.

I assure you i will not change, and your childish name calling and speculating proves nothing but your own immaturity.

Lysenko

5th January 2003, 18:19

AS you can all see, your desparate attempts do nothing. Have a nice day.

chamo

5th January 2003, 18:32

I'm sure that I will. I hate these bans

man in the red suit

5th January 2003, 19:02

Quote: from Mazdak on 4:53 pm on Jan. 5, 2003
10 bucks says i wont be a skinhead. I am comfortable right where i am, and i am certain half the people here will be voting republican by the time they are adults. I take pride in the fact that i am 100% sure of my position on the political spectrum.

I assure you i will not change, and your childish name calling and speculating proves nothing but your own immaturity.

yeah I think Mazdak is pretty down to earth despite what you guys think. I am going to vote against his skinhead sympathies.

man in the red suit

5th January 2003, 19:09

Quote: from the anarchist on 3:06 pm on Jan. 5, 2003
once again you guys generalize the skinhead movement, andprobably dont knowwaht a skinhead really is...

the public opinion is htat all skinheads are neo-nazis
but the same public opinion also thinks that communism is stalnism... and you has leftists shouldnt fall in such grosse generalization....

the skinhead movement started like a regular movement, nothing political, nothing radical, just a bunch of guys with theyr head shaved, this groups still exist, then camethe nazi assholes and mixed a litleofpunk with skinhead and made probably thebigest group inthe history ofskinheads, the nazi skinheads, but this isnt the only group, there are also the red skins, communist and leftist skinheads.... wich are in my opinion, the best skinhead movement, plus thereare some anti-nazi/christian skinheads, and this guys directlyattack the nazigroups.....

so think twicebefore making such grosse generalization about skinheads, dont forget, the left is also sufering from this generalization....

yes, we generalize the skinhead movement, when 95% of skinheads are neo-nazis, it's safe to generalize. It's like saying that you're generalizing the meaning of a swastika. After all, native americans used to use it as a peace sign....... Do you see where I'm going with this?